RE:10pm rule...

msg11 · 13-09-2010 02:32AM #1

I can easily see this happening here soon!

Shoppers and workers at the branch in Andover, Hampshire, had to dive for cover as the luxury car crashed into checkouts.
The 50-year-old bearded man had stormed out of the shop after staff told him he was too drunk to be served any more drink.
He got into the Rolls Royce where managers unsuccessfully tried to talk him out of driving after he told them what he was going to do.
His first attempt at ramming the windows failed but that did not deter the enraged driver, who reversed, revved the engine and had another go.
This time, he put pedal to metal and smashed right into the shop, demolishing two checkouts, counters and ceiling fittings.
Emergency services were called and the store was evacuated - six women were taken to hospital with minor injuries.
Hampshire Police spokeswoman Katie Wilson said: "Six women were injured and treated for cuts, bruises and shock by ambulance and air ambulance crew and taken to hospital for further checks.
"A 50-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of drink driving and attempted murder."

Picture

BTW it's a bit of a year old story. Just though I would post it because I remember the thread the other day.

Daemos · 13-09-2010 02:40AM

A 50-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of drink driving and attempted murder

Wow, you think?

It's as bad as the time they had Raoul Moat surrounded and the reporters had to say it was a man "fitting Moat's description". How many serial killers did they think were in Rothbury? :rolleyes:

RATM · 13-09-2010 10:54AM

10pm rule sucks IMO. Lenehan introduced it claiming it was to stop kids drinking on the streets but the real reason for its introduction was to ensure that the FF/Publican lobby have sole rights to sell alcohol in this country after 10pm.

Banned Account · 13-09-2010 10:57AM

May I ask what the hell a looney yoller driver being refused alcohol for being too drunk has to do with a 10pm rule and a FF/Publican conspiracy theory??

geeky · 13-09-2010 10:59AM

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

May I ask what the hell a looney yoller driver being refused alcohol for being too drunk has to do with a 10pm rule and a FF/Publican conspiracy theory??

Welcome to AH, Fitz, where nothing is as it seems.

orourkeda · 13-09-2010 11:01AM

There goes his driving licence.

Drink Driving doesnt pay

Guy:Incognito · 13-09-2010 11:02AM

How would the off licences being allowed stay open later here prevent this? If anything the guy would probably be more drunk.

Not selling alcohol to people already locked has nothing to do with off licence opening hours.

Sensationalism has even less to do with it.

godtabh · 13-09-2010 11:03AM

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

May I ask what the hell a looney yoller driver being refused alcohol for being too drunk has to do with a 10pm rule and a FF/Publican conspiracy theory??

They need to make the connection some how

Wertz · 13-09-2010 11:09AM

RATM wrote: »

10pm rule sucks IMO. Lenehan introduced it claiming it was to stop kids drinking on the streets but the real reason for its introduction was to ensure that the FF/Publican lobby have sole rights to sell alcohol in this country after 10pm.

Ahern introduced it. Don't let him off the hook by blaming Lenny.
This is the same genius who wants to tax ATM transactions to stop tiger raids...
Agree with the real reason for it's introduction though...

[edit]

Fitzcaraldo wrote:

Conspiracy theory

lol
You believe it's to stop youth drinking? Same way as selling people 20 boxes of fags instead of 10,s is to cut the number of people smoking I suppose.

checkyabadself · 13-09-2010 11:10AM

Im not really against the 10pm law. I see it as a way to curb impulse buying by binge drinkers.
I buy alcohol with my grocery shopping and have the brain to plan ahead.

I don't wake up in the morning, go to the shop to buy cereal, come home and eat it. Why can't people buy alcohol in advance of it's consumption time too?

Minstrel27 · 13-09-2010 11:13AM

checkyabadself wrote: »

Im not really against the 10pm law. I see it as a way to curb impulse buying by binge drinkers.
I buy alcohol with my grocery shopping and have the brain to plan ahead.

I don't wake up in the morning, go to the shop to buy cereal, come home and eat it. Why can't people buy alcohol in advance of it's consumption time too?

People who buy in advance can binge drink too you know. It is not exclusive to people who decide on the spur of a moment that they would like to buy a few drinks after 10pm.

bonerm · 13-09-2010 11:40AM

Maybe if Irish people could drink responsibly then they wouldn't need to be treated like children when it comes to selling drink to them.

120_Minutes · 13-09-2010 11:44AM

bonerm wrote: »

Maybe if Irish people could drink responsibly then they wouldn't need to be treated like children when it comes to selling drink to them.

+ infinity, and beyond!

Brendog · 13-09-2010 11:48AM

I understandable how he was so pissed off.

I hate getting asked for I.D when I go to the off license too.

gerrycollins · 13-09-2010 12:01PM

an advisor group was set up to tackle the issue of underage drinking and anti social behaviour cause by consumption of drink.

the group contained doctors, youth group workers and civil servants.

they came up with many ideas including the banning of drink related advertisment where the sport was by majority played by u18's,

they recommended to the government that stopping off licences serving after 10pm would somehow curb anti social behaviour. they also wanted the off licence section to be walled off from the main body of the shop and have its own seperate till. that part was suscessfully challenged by retailers however they couldnt get the 10pm close changed.

they also increased the cost of the licence for offys and are currently looking at making every offy and resturant apply to the district court to renew their licence be it for wine only in the case of resturants or the full licence that your local O'briens has.

At the time I rang a local oppisition TD and he basically said no one in the Dail is going to object to this bill however if people wanted they could offer alternatives to TD which they would take on board.

if any one is to blame its the TD or TD's who proposed the formation of the group to come up with the ideas.

ps I can see something horrible happening because of it soon. also I know pubs with off licence attached are breaking the rule by selling their offy stock over the counter to punters they know.

13-09-2010 12:11PM

bonerm wrote: »

Maybe if Irish people could drink responsibly then they wouldn't need to be treated like children when it comes to selling drink to them.

Maybe if Irish people were treated like adults, they could evolve a more open approach to alcohol. Instead, the government makes it difficult to actually do that outside of the pub/nightclub. It's exactly the same problems faced by the café-bar proposals floated by McDowell. The Vinters Association/pub-owners don't want the pub/nightclub culture to change. Why would they, it's how they make the large majority of their profits.

Kasabian · 13-09-2010 12:20PM

Drunken Rolls Royce drivers are becoming all too common in England , I blame FF . :rolleyes:

gizmo · 13-09-2010 12:37PM

28064212 wrote: »

Maybe if Irish people were treated like adults, they could evolve a more open approach to alcohol. Instead, the government makes it difficult to actually do that outside of the pub/nightclub. It's exactly the same problems faced by the café-bar proposals floated by McDowell. The Vinters Association/pub-owners don't want the pub/nightclub culture to change. Why would they, it's how they make the large majority of their profits.

Irish people have been treated like adults for years yet I still see people running to the bar when last orders are called and return with multiple drinks to "do them" until closing time. Hardly mature behaviour is it?

Minstrel27 · 13-09-2010 12:43PM

gizmo wrote: »

Irish people have been treated like adults for years yet I still see people running to the bar when last orders are called and return with multiple drinks to "do them" until closing time. Hardly mature behaviour is it?

Get rid of the closing time and you wont have that problem. But no, our government has to make sure that we are all home on time for work in the morning.

spider_pig · 13-09-2010 12:44PM

do people even get refused drink for been too drunk in this country i know iv been in a few states and never been refused, iv seen people in worse sloppy mess of a drunkin idiot states and not been refused...?
its better to serve then to refuse lol or face the concicquences of a car comeing through the shop window

13-09-2010 12:47PM

gizmo wrote: »

Irish people have been treated like adults for years yet I still see people running to the bar when last orders are called and return with multiple drinks to "do them" until closing time. Hardly mature behaviour is it?

How is having a legally-enforced "last orders" treating people like adults? In France, there's no legal closing-time, and when I drank there, we'd end up drinking less and going home earlier, because there was no defined "end of the night" time, we'd go home when we wanted to. In Ireland, everybody stays out til 2.30, because that's the 'official' end of the night. Not to mention the insane public disorder and infrastructure problems this causes.

And how have Irish people have been treated like adults for years? Alcohol licensing has been getting progressively stricter, not looser.

Wertz · 13-09-2010 01:07PM

Minstrel27 wrote: »

Get rid of the closing time and you wont have that problem. But no, our government has to make sure that we are all home on time for work in the morning.

How else are we to pay off all that debt?

gizmo · 13-09-2010 01:17PM

28064212 wrote: »

How is having a legally-enforced "last orders" treating people like adults?

I wasn't saying the idea of last orders is treating people like adults, I was pointing out that people of all ages do exactly the same thing when last orders are called, something which is indicative of the mentality of the average Irish drinker.

28064212 wrote: »

In France, there's no legal closing-time, and when I drank there, we'd end up drinking less and going home earlier, because there was no defined "end of the night" time, we'd go home when we wanted to.

On a personal note, why wouldn't you do the same in Ireland then?

No one is forcing people to stay out until 2:30, people do it because that's how long the places are open until. I have no doubt that if there were longer opening hours then some people wouldn't stay until the very end but I reject the notion that they'll drink less because of it. I could also guarantee there will be people who will still stay until the end of the night, regardless of when that is.

28064212 wrote: »

And how have Irish people have been treated like adults for years? Alcohol licensing has been getting progressively stricter, not looser.

Yes, they have been getting stricter however I've seen the above behaviour from people in their 50s. If mature adults aren't capable of behaving properly then what hope is there for the younger generations?

13-09-2010 02:20PM

gizmo wrote: »

On a personal note, why wouldn't you do the same in Ireland then?

On occasion, I do. The vast, vast majority don't. The whole system in Ireland is set up on the basis that everywhere and everything finishes up at 2.30. There's much less emphasis on personal responsibility.

gizmo wrote: »

No one is forcing people to stay out until 2:30, people do it because that's how long the places are open until. I have no doubt that if there were longer opening hours then some people wouldn't stay until the very end but I reject the notion that they'll drink less because of it. I could also guarantee there will be people who will still stay until the end of the night, regardless of when that is.

I am not looking for longer opening hours, I am looking for no specified opening hours. What other industry do we legally enforce opening hours? Is there any? If I want to open a 24hour car dealership, I can. It'll probably fail, but there's no law against me doing it.

If there is no "end of the night", it becomes solely the person's responsibility. I have no illusions that if such a law were brought in, there would be weeks, maybe months of an 'adjustment period', where people revelled in the freedom to be out til 8am. Except then they realise that it's not actually that fun to go to work and spend the day throwing up, and that they can't afford to go on 12 hour benders. Then the responsibility for looking after their drinking habits becomes their's, not the government's.

gizmo wrote: »

Yes, they have been getting stricter however I've seen the above behaviour from people in their 50s. If mature adults aren't capable of behaving properly then what hope is there for the younger generations?

Because the laws have always been strict. Just because they're getting stricter, doesn't mean they were lax to start with. The current crop of adults, have never been given an opportunity to develop mature attitudes to alcohol. The Irish government's attitude to alcohol has always been about trying to restrict supply, never about developing mature and tolerant attitudes to it. Restricting supply has never and will never work. Any argument that says stricter controls of alcohol are better is equally valid for bringing the closing hours in to 2 o'clock, or 1, or 11pm.

mconigol · 13-09-2010 02:35PM

gizmo wrote: »

Irish people have been treated like adults for years yet I still see people running to the bar when last orders are called and return with multiple drinks to "do them" until closing time. Hardly mature behaviour is it?

Honestly what business is it of yours how adult people decide to live their lives? What exactly is so immature about this?

The majority (and note I said majority) of these people are obviously "mature" enough to be able to earn enough money to go out and socialise. They're "mature" enough to pay taxes, "mature" enough to drive, raise children etc...

What a bull**** argument!

msg11 · 13-09-2010 04:30PM

I know a few people around my local, that would leave the pub 1:00am-1:30am. And have the six-eight cans at home after been in the pub since 1pm-2pm that day.

So the government putting a time on this is not really helping anyone or anything. If someone has clearly had enough to drink/can't handle any more why dosen't the bar staff sent them on there way home?

Besides, I dunno why the goverment thought that closing the offos at 10pm, would get people (shift workers) into the pubs for an hour and a half. I don't bother.

I go home an sit on board pissed off cause I am told what to do, and how to do every single part of my life , by a bunch of cocks .

johnmcdnl · 13-09-2010 04:55PM

checkyabadself wrote: »

Im not really against the 10pm law. I see it as a way to curb impulse buying by binge drinkers.
I buy alcohol with my grocery shopping and have the brain to plan ahead.

I don't wake up in the morning, go to the shop to buy cereal, come home and eat it. Why can't people buy alcohol in advance of it's consumption time too?

Because when you plan ahead for ceral its grand because you won't eat the whole box at once in all fairness but if you buy 12 cans rather than the 6 you want to "plan ahead" you'll end up drinking 8-9 cans easy enough which causes more damage than it solves...

then next time you do the daily shopping you'll plan ahead and buy extra just in case....

gizmo · 13-09-2010 05:55PM

28064212 wrote: »

Because the laws have always been strict. Just because they're getting stricter, doesn't mean they were lax to start with. The current crop of adults, have never been given an opportunity to develop mature attitudes to alcohol. The Irish government's attitude to alcohol has always been about trying to restrict supply, never about developing mature and tolerant attitudes to it. Restricting supply has never and will never work. Any argument that says stricter controls of alcohol are better is equally valid for bringing the closing hours in to 2 o'clock, or 1, or 11pm.

This is my point though, what's to stop them from having a mature attitude to alcohol within the current regulations? Sure we have restricted opening hours but we're also at the top of the alcohol consumption tables in Europe, despite our population being a fraction of some of the mainland countries. This is on top of more localised issues such as what you see on the streets on the average night out, both before and after closing time mind you. Take at look in the an A&E for instance to see how we treat alcohol for instance. I just don't think that a number of months will suddenly instil a sense of responsibility into the population.

To be honest, I have no problem with the opening hours being extended or, in some cases, abolished, it certainly works in other countries. But as a poster above said, if we showed some responsibility in our actions now perhaps the move would sound more appealing in the future?

mconigol wrote: »

Honestly what business is it of yours how adult people decide to live their lives? What exactly is so immature about this?

If you don't find the act of rushing to a bar at last orders to buy as many drinks as you can carry so you can consume them within the 30-45min drinking up time immature then you're just proving the point.

13-09-2010 06:45PM

gizmo wrote: »

This is my point though, what's to stop them from having a mature attitude to alcohol within the current regulations?

What's to stop them having an immature attitude within the current regulations? There is nothing within the regulations that encourages a mature attitude, so why have them?

gizmo wrote: »

Sure we have restricted opening hours but we're also at the top of the alcohol consumption tables in Europe, despite our population being a fraction of some of the mainland countries.

What? We're near the top, but only on a per capita basis (Source). All the more populous countries would drink much more in total.

gizmo wrote: »

This is on top of more localised issues such as what you see on the streets on the average night out, both before and after closing time mind you. Take at look in the an A&E for instance to see how we treat alcohol for instance. I just don't think that a number of months will suddenly instil a sense of responsibility into the population.

Another problem which is made much worse by universal closing times. If they're going to regulate it, at the very least, allow some kind of staggered closing times

gizmo wrote: »

To be honest, I have no problem with the opening hours being extended or, in some cases, abolished, it certainly works in other countries. But as a poster above said, if we showed some responsibility in our actions now perhaps the move would sound more appealing in the future?

The current approach hasn't worked so far, or looked like it might work, or looked like it might work in the long-term. So maybe it's time to try an approach that may have a chance at encouraging personal responsibility.

gizmo · 13-09-2010 06:55PM

28064212 wrote: »

What's to stop them having an immature attitude within the current regulations? There is nothing within the regulations that encourages a mature attitude, so why have them?

Are you honestly asking why people should have a mature attitude to drinking even with our current opening hours?

28064212 wrote: »

What? We're near the top, but only on a per capita basis (Source). All the more populous countries would drink much more in total.

Indeed, so the average Irish drinker drinks more than their EU brethren despite having less opportunity to do so, doesn't that say a lot?

28064212 wrote: »

Another problem which is made much worse by universal closing times. If they're going to regulate it, at the very least, allow some kind of staggered closing times

You see that would be a good plan. They could vary the licences between premises to ensure we don't have the usual 2:30am rush onto the street. The only downside would be the constant flow of people on the streets into the early hours unlike the current situation where most crowds dissipate promptly enough. That would, however, be offset by the fact they'd be in smaller groups.

28064212 wrote: »

The current approach hasn't worked so far, or looked like it might work, or looked like it might work in the long-term. So maybe it's time to try an approach that may have a chance at encouraging personal responsibility.

I'd certainly be in favour of staggering the opening hours of some premises, at least that way we would be able to see how people react over time. At the very least it would make debates such as these more interesting as we'd have real information to back it up.

13-09-2010 07:27PM

gizmo wrote: »

Are you honestly asking why people should have a mature attitude to drinking even with our current opening hours?

No, I'm asking what's the point of the regulations if they don't encourage a mature attitude? What is the purpose of the current regulations? Why don't we have regulations that do encourage a mature attitude?

gizmo wrote: »

Indeed, so the average Irish drinker drinks more than their EU brethren despite having less opportunity to do so, doesn't that say a lot?

I was addressing the point that Ireland's total consumption is higher than other more populous countries', which is completely inaccurate.

Ireland also has some of the strictest regulations, what does that say?

RE:10pm rule...

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