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Citizenship for foreign spouse

2

Comments

  • #32
    tatli_lokma
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭tatli_lokma


    its definitely changed in the last 3 years. If you now arrived on a holiday visa you would then have to apply to the Spouse of an Irish citizen section in writing (they don't even allow phone enquiries). while waiting for their decision you can request a non-deportation order so that once the holiday visa expires you won't get deported! Its then aprox 6 mths wait for their decision. If granted the first residency stamp will be for 1 year and may or may not have stamp 4 (but usually will). then subsequent applications are quicker, just a matter of attending Burgh quay together with some paperwork. It is at the descretion of the interviewing officer, but it at that stage you can get a renewal for 1-5 years (provided you are still married, living together and also have not come to the attention of the police :) .

    After 3 years of residence then AFAIK you can apply for citizenship, but more and more people are being refused. I think they reckon since you have residency and can work here, its enough, but again it is on a case by case basis. and I am sure a lot depends on who processes your application (and what mood they are in the day they do it!)


  • #33
    tatli_lokma
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭tatli_lokma


    Saruman wrote: »
    How dare you judge someone for wanting to be a citizen for whatever reason.

    In my case I said ease of travel was the main reason, not the only reason.

    Boo hoo indeed...

    sorry, but I place a lot of importance on my citizenship, and I would think it trivialising to give it out just so that basic travel would be easier. That being the case half the world would want Irish citizenship as we can travel to so many countries with ease - even more than UK citizens.

    You should have a very strong reason for wanting to be an citizen of somewhere, as it is such a valuable thing. If Ireland joined schengen then many of the people who request citizenship would not need to do so.


  • #34
    sombaht
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 327 ✭✭sombaht


    sorry, but I place a lot of importance on my citizenship,

    Maybe those non-nationals who have busied themselves applying for citizenship also will (if granted) place an equal importance on their "new" citizenship as you do. Perhaps they would like a say in how the country is governed, maybe even run for local elections, lets face it they could hardly do any worse than the current lot we are stuck with.
    As the spouse of a non-national my wife was more excited receiving her voters registration card than she was at receiving her Irish passport.

    Cheers,
    sombaht


  • #35
    mike kelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭mike kelly


    Cincikchick wrote: »
    sorry, but I place a lot of importance on my citizenship, and I would think it trivialising to give it out just so that basic travel would be easier. That being the case half the world would want Irish citizenship as we can travel to so many countries with ease - even more than UK citizens.

    You should have a very strong reason for wanting to be an citizen of somewhere, as it is such a valuable thing. If Ireland joined schengen then many of the people who request citizenship would not need to do so.

    I see it is perfectly normal that the spouse of an irish citizen has a right to become an irish citizen also. What about the children? Will they have an automatic right to irish citizenship regardless of where they are born?

    I worked in Ireland for a long time and have had to leave due to economic factors. Should I be punished for this? Money sent home by emigrants was what kept Ireland afloat for many years and now we are being treated in a shameful manner by "our" government.


  • #36
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    Cincikchick wrote: »
    ah boo hoo! I don't have a problem with my hubby having to queue and fill in paperwork to enter the country. Its not like its that big a deal, inconvenient yes, but hardly a good enough reason to get citizenship for. to be granted citizenship of a country is a serious and important thing, it shouldn't be trivialised by handing it out to anyone who wants it so they can travel easier and don't have to queue up at the airport!

    sorry, maybe I'm being harsh, but that's just how I see it.

    As an Irish citizen I don't want citizenship to be just given to anyone - even if they are married to an Irish person. In fact if the laws changed so my husband could travel in Europe more easily (i.e if we were Schengen) I doubt we would even bother applying for citizenship.

    have you ever considered what your husbands postion in this country would be if you died and he does not have irish citzenship ? you would be happy that he could not continuie to live here ?


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  • #37
    mike kelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭mike kelly


    danbohan wrote: »
    have you ever considered what your husbands postion in this country would be if you died and he does not have irish citzenship ? you would be happy that he could not continuie to live here ?

    good point, another reason for automatic granting of citizenship upon marriage


  • #38
    tatli_lokma
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭tatli_lokma


    sombaht wrote: »
    Maybe those non-nationals who have busied themselves applying for citizenship also will (if granted) place an equal importance on their "new" citizenship as you do. Perhaps they would like a say in how the country is governed, maybe even run for local elections, lets face it they could hardly do any worse than the current lot we are stuck with.
    As the spouse of a non-national my wife was more excited receiving her voters registration card than she was at receiving her Irish passport.

    Cheers,
    sombaht
    that is my point exactly - that your main reason for wanting citizenship should be for reasons such as those you mention, and not just because it makes travel easier.
    danbohan wrote: »
    have you ever considered what your husbands postion in this country would be if you died and he does not have irish citzenship ? you would be happy that he could not continuie to live here ?

    If he were here more than 3 years, had a job, home and paid taxes then as my widower he would be granted continued residency. This is something I specifically asked. If we had children of course then it would be easier again for him as he would have the right to remain as their guardian.

    However, were I to die (please god, not for a while yet!), my husband would probably high tail it back 'home' as his main reason for living here is to be with me. Its certainly not cos of the weather! :P

    I wonder would so many people want citizenship if they had to give up their original citizenship? I mean if they couldn't have dual citizenship. It would be a very difficult thing for me to do, I know that, regardless of how easy it would make taking a holiday!


  • #39
    tatli_lokma
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭tatli_lokma


    mike kelly wrote: »
    good point, another reason for automatic granting of citizenship upon marriage

    there is already a problem with people marrying for visas, if you gave automatic citizenship I can only imagine how bad it would be. It is past abuse of the system that means genuine couples have so much paperwork and red tape to clear. If you automatically gave Irish citizenship, then you would be just asking for trouble. Your idea of automatic citizenship is just ludicrous IMO.

    Have you never heard of the 'five year plan'????


  • #40
    mike kelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭mike kelly


    Cincikchick wrote: »
    Have you never heard of the 'five year plan'????

    It worked well for Stalin but I can't see it succeeding in Ireland

    What's that got to do with the topic anyway?


  • #41
    tatli_lokma
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭tatli_lokma


    mike kelly wrote: »
    It worked well for Stalin but I can't see it succeeding in Ireland

    What's that got to do with the topic anyway?
    :rolleyes:

    its well known that many people marry UK and Irish nationals in order to get a passport. the average time for this is 5 years.

    This is particularly common in the UK, where literally once the passport and permanent residence is granted, the divorce papers are filed. It is a known practice, and I personally know of a two guys who admitted that they don't particularly love their wives, but they will stick it out for another 2 years until they hopefully get citizenship, one is living in Ireland, the other the UK. The plan is to then divorce, return home, find a wife there and bring her to Ireland. One of the men is actually planning on bringing his first wife to England - he only divorced her so that he could marry a UK woman with the long term plan of bringing his first wife and kids to the UK to live once he got his passport. He has never actually broken up with her, they both see his marriage in the UK as a means to an end.

    I also know of 2 people who have been approached by non-nationals with the proposition of paying to get married. It already happens to get residency, so if citizenship was automatic it would be even more commonplace.


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  • #42
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    I know an Australian bloke who married an Irish girl so he could come here and she could go there.


  • #43
    mike kelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭mike kelly


    Cincikchick wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    its well known that many people marry UK and Irish nationals in order to get a passport. the average time for this is 5 years.

    This is particularly common in the UK, where literally once the passport and permanent residence is granted, the divorce papers are filed. It is a known practice, and I personally know of a two guys who admitted that they don't particularly love their wives, but they will stick it out for another 2 years until they hopefully get citizenship, one is living in Ireland, the other the UK. The plan is to then divorce, return home, find a wife there and bring her to Ireland. One of the men is actually planning on bringing his first wife to England - he only divorced her so that he could marry a UK woman with the long term plan of bringing his first wife and kids to the UK to live once he got his passport. He has never actually broken up with her, they both see his marriage in the UK as a means to an end.

    I also know of 2 people who have been approached by non-nationals with the proposition of paying to get married. It already happens to get residency, so if citizenship was automatic it would be even more commonplace.

    whatever happened to the presumption of innocence? aren't we all equal before the law? foreign spouses are no more likely to committ crimes than irish ones


  • #44
    mike kelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭mike kelly


    tbh wrote: »
    I know an Australian bloke who married an Irish girl so he could come here and she could go there.

    that's the type of creative thinking that our country needs.


  • #45
    tatli_lokma
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭tatli_lokma


    mike kelly wrote: »
    whatever happened to the presumption of innocence? aren't we all equal before the law? foreign spouses are no more likely to committ crimes than irish ones
    what are you talking about? what has that got to do with my post?
    the fact is an Irish person wouldn't need to marry an Irish person to get citizenship or remain in Ireland! so obviously only non-nationals would need to marry an Irish person to get a passport. so an irish person doesn't need to break the law in that manner! Duh!

    and Irish people were the 'foreign' spouse many countries such as the US and Australia and plenty of Irish married for a green card. My friend's brother did just that in Australia. The 'wife' knew all along it was a marriage of convenience, and she was happy to go along with it. Then there are those who are not upfront about their reasons for marriage, and 5 years down the line there are some very confused and hurt women and men when their partner walks out.

    Being married to a foreign national myself, I have heard so many stories that have made my face to this :eek:.

    Originally I thought that it was a bit silly some of the hoops we had to jump through for him to move here with me. But after talking to other 'foreigners' my husband and I have been shocked at the amount of people who are surprised that he actually married for love, that he doesn't particularly want to be an irish citizen, that he doesn't have plans to divorce when he is granted permanent residency. He has been asked out right by someone when can he get divorced. When he answered that he has no reason to get divorced, he loves me they laughed at him!

    We have heard of people marrying cousins to get the rest of the family over, men with wives back in their home country etc etc. It is crazy the amount of mad stories you hear of people trying to abuse the system. As a result I am actually glad that it is not as easy as it used to be. If we have to put up with the inconvenience of not being able to travel in Europe as a result then so be it - I would rather that then have the citizenship handed out with your marriage licence.


  • #46
    niceoneted
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭niceoneted


    Cincikchick, if you are aware of underhanded marriages that have taken place where once citizenship of Ire or Uk can be taken up you should report them. It is not too late.

    There are a number of marriages of EU and non EU nationals that have been stopped this year in Ireland.
    It is always a few that can make the majority tarred with the one brush.

    I think it is valid that one does not get automatic citizenship on marriage. My sister married an English lad and he did not get automatic citizenship.

    In terms of kids Mike you can get Irish passports for them even if they are born in a different state. As some others mentioned the process is a little more not necessarily difficult but perhaps long winded if your intended wife is from a country that is visa required. Is this the case?

    Good luck with the wedding.


  • #47
    tatli_lokma
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭tatli_lokma


    niceoneted wrote: »
    It is always a few that can make the majority tarred with the one brush.

    you're so right - and it really annoys me, because as a result of these people, genuine couples have a more difficult and time consuming process.

    As for reporting them, I doubt it would do much good. Afterall, these people have supposedly provided documents and had interviews with immigration. so without actual proof of what they are doing, and not just comments they made, I wonder what would be done. That is half the problem. I would have no problem with having home visits, scheduled interviews etc, as my case is genuine and our relationship can be proven as genuine and we were going out 3 years before marriage. I don't know why this practice isn't done? We didn't even have to attend for an interview, just give our paperwork (and wait 5 long months!). Which was less hassle, but had we been called for interview I would have had no issue with it.

    I think this area needs to be better monitored and maintained.
    There are also people living here on spousal residence who are separated from their partner. If you are no longer living together you are not suppsed to be permitted to remain on the grounds of marriage. In that case if there are children you should apply on those grounds, if no children apply on grounds to remain based on other factors. INIS know of many of these people staying on spouse visas and not living with their partners and yet they do nothing. It is very frustrating for the genuine cases.


  • #48
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    Cincikchick wrote: »
    that is my point exactly - that your main reason for wanting citizenship should be for reasons such as those you mention, and not just because it makes travel easier.



    If he were here more than 3 years, had a job, home and paid taxes then as my widower he would be granted continued residency. This is something I specifically asked. If we had children of course then it would be easier again for him as he would have the right to remain as their guardian.

    However, were I to die (please god, not for a while yet!), my husband would probably high tail it back 'home' as his main reason for living here is to be with me. Its certainly not cos of the weather! :P

    I wonder would so many people want citizenship if they had to give up their original citizenship? I mean if they couldn't have dual citizenship. It would be a very difficult thing for me to do, I know that, regardless of how easy it would make taking a holiday!

    If he were here more than 3 years, had a job, home and paid taxes then as my widower he would be granted continued residency.

    ok in your situation
    but in other situations where wife /husband does not work is housewife/homemaker they would be forced to leave the country and return home whether they wanted too or not , hardly a fair system


  • #49
    tatli_lokma
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭tatli_lokma


    danbohan wrote: »
    ok in your situation
    but in other situations where wife /husband does not work is housewife/homemaker they would be forced to leave the country and return home whether they wanted too or not , hardly a fair system

    that is not true, they would just need to apply for residency on a different basis. If you can support yourself without need for government intervention, have not been in trouble with the law, etc you would have a good case for requesting continued residency. The more things you have in your favour the better, such as possibly a house here.
    If you have children then you could apply to remain as their legal guardian.

    you would not literally be 'forced' to return 'home' as soon as the ink on the death cert is dry.

    You might think the system is not fair, and you are right in many instances. But most of the unfair situations are the result of people abusing the system. Personally I think it would be more unfair to hand out citizenship purely on the basis of marriage, as to do that would just make a mockery of the system.


  • #50
    mike kelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭mike kelly


    Cincikchick, can you tell us what these abuses are that you keep talking about? How can marriage be described as an abuse?


  • #51
    OS119
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    mike kelly wrote: »
    Cincikchick, can you tell us what these abuses are that you keep talking about? How can marriage be described as an abuse?

    this is a good indicator.

    http://http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7819036/Vicar-conducted-sham-marriages-for-illegals.html

    its in the UK, but the rules are the same, and the 'prize' is the same.

    a CofE vicar conducted 383 marriages between 2005 and 2009, almost all of them are believed to be sham marriages - the two people invovled in each sham marriage didn't know each other, had no contact after the wedding, and got married either for cash, or the right of residency in the EEA.

    it was simple, straightforward, relatively cheap fraud. the vicar was convicted, but no sentance has yet been passed.

    be interesting to know whether such a marriage can be disolved/anulled by the state and without recource to the parties involved...


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  • #52
    tatli_lokma
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭tatli_lokma


    mike kelly wrote: »
    Cincikchick, can you tell us what these abuses are that you keep talking about? How can marriage be described as an abuse?

    if you read my earlier posts, you will know what I am talking about.
    People marry in order to reside in Ireland and the UK - they do not marry for the reason of being husband and wife, but in order to gain residency. some of them do not even live together once residency is granted.

    To marry an EU national is the goal, to marry an Irish national is an even higher prize. I know of a eastern european woman who has been asked to marry a non-EU national for €5000 plus expenses. She refused. I know of another 'couple' who married last year - they live at different addresses, both have girlfriend/boyfriend, he sends money back to his 'real' wife in the middle east.

    It happens, and it happens a lot. And it happened a lot more when the rules in Ireland meant that residency and citizenship were handed out easily. Now they are trying to tighten up, but the main casualties of the new rules are the genuine couples as processing claims now takes months, which when you are genuine is a long time to wait so your partner can work and be secure in this country.

    As for the UK - well we think its bad here, its much worse over there as OS119's post points out. In my past experience of living in a non-eu country, I heard of literally dozens of young men targeting women in order to get a visa to the UK, and from the experience of many of my friends I know that in the UK it is even easier to get residency than in Ireland.


  • #53
    mike kelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭mike kelly


    Those examples are not a reason to make life harder for genuine couples. Instead, the rules as to who can conduct a marriage ceremony should be tightened up. Only civil marriages should be recognised and these are conducted by our incorruptible civil servants.


  • #54
    CamillaRhodes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 505 ✭✭✭CamillaRhodes


    Cincikchick, I just wanted to thank you for posting your experiences here. Thought I would share my own in case it's helpful to anyone reading this thread.

    I married my husband, who is a visa required national, 3 months ago. We had a one-week honeymoon and since then have been living in different countries - he at home, me back in Ireland. It's torture, not being able to spend my 'newlywed' time with the man I love. BUT I recognise that this is the process and this is what we have to put up with. We did loads of research before getting married of how would be the best way to get the paper work in order (I had been living with him in his home country for the first two years of our relationship, then at the start of the third I came back here to try to find work and set up a new life for us over here.

    We were advised by the INIS at the time (and dear god I hope this was the right advice!) that given his visa-required status, the best way was for him to apply for a residency visa from his home state, not to travel to Ireland on a tourist visa and then apply from here, as doing the latter would result in at least a 6 month wait for the granting of Stamp 4 so he could start working. Costs of living are significantly higher over here than in his home country, so frankly it made financial sense to do this. We were told at the time by the embassy in his home country that the wait for his Type D spouse visa would be "a minimun of 5 weeks to 2 months". As I mentioned, this was almost 3 months ago now.

    We wrote to the INIS last week to ask if there was any holdup (as Cincikchick says also, I would have no problem with being interviewed by them or whatever as we're a genuine couple with nothing to hide) but they told us, having taken my husband's visa reference number, that we should hear "within one to two weeks" and that if we hadn't heard from them by then we should get back in touch. That was last Monday, so fingers crossed we'll hear from them this week!

    (Just to give credit where it's due, the INIS have been super quick and helpful in responding to our queries).

    Then, hopefully, once he's given Type D spouse visa and can come here, we can get him a Stamp 4 immediately and can begin living together as husband and wife, he can start looking for a job, and we can have a normal life together! (Oh, such romantic dreams, eh?!)

    FYI citizenship hasn't come into it yet, I guess at some stage he will apply for it as, truthfully, the travelling together thing is an issue, partly cos half my family are in the UK and I would really like us to be able to go over and visit them, particularly when we have kids, without having to go through the rigmarole of applying for visas for my husband.

    But frankly that's beside the point at this stage - our goal is to live together and have a normal life. We've been determined to follow every step of the process correctly and courteously - there have been no calls to TDs or anything like that (what makes our desire to be together any greater than the other genuine couples who are currently forced to be apart by the misfortune of nationality?!) so I'm really hoping we'll be rewarded for this with the granting of his visa soon enough.

    If anythign comes through in the next week I'll come back and gloat post here. To all the rest of you spouses of non-nationals, best of luck with your wait, and know that in the end it will all be worth it, to be able to spend the rest of your life with the person you love.


  • #55
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    best of luck Camilla, will be thinking of ye.


  • #56
    mike kelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭mike kelly


    CamillaRhodes wrote: »
    Cincikchick, I just wanted to thank you for posting your experiences here. Thought I would share my own in case it's helpful to anyone reading this thread.

    I married my husband, who is a visa required national, 3 months ago. We had a one-week honeymoon and since then have been living in different countries - he at home, me back in Ireland. It's torture, not being able to spend my 'newlywed' time with the man I love. BUT I recognise that this is the process and this is what we have to put up with. We did loads of research before getting married of how would be the best way to get the paper work in order (I had been living with him in his home country for the first two years of our relationship, then at the start of the third I came back here to try to find work and set up a new life for us over here.

    We were advised by the INIS at the time (and dear god I hope this was the right advice!) that given his visa-required status, the best way was for him to apply for a residency visa from his home state, not to travel to Ireland on a tourist visa and then apply from here, as doing the latter would result in at least a 6 month wait for the granting of Stamp 4 so he could start working. Costs of living are significantly higher over here than in his home country, so frankly it made financial sense to do this. We were told at the time by the embassy in his home country that the wait for his Type D spouse visa would be "a minimun of 5 weeks to 2 months". As I mentioned, this was almost 3 months ago now.

    We wrote to the INIS last week to ask if there was any holdup (as Cincikchick says also, I would have no problem with being interviewed by them or whatever as we're a genuine couple with nothing to hide) but they told us, having taken my husband's visa reference number, that we should hear "within one to two weeks" and that if we hadn't heard from them by then we should get back in touch. That was last Monday, so fingers crossed we'll hear from them this week!

    (Just to give credit where it's due, the INIS have been super quick and helpful in responding to our queries).

    Then, hopefully, once he's given Type D spouse visa and can come here, we can get him a Stamp 4 immediately and can begin living together as husband and wife, he can start looking for a job, and we can have a normal life together! (Oh, such romantic dreams, eh?!)

    FYI citizenship hasn't come into it yet, I guess at some stage he will apply for it as, truthfully, the travelling together thing is an issue, partly cos half my family are in the UK and I would really like us to be able to go over and visit them, particularly when we have kids, without having to go through the rigmarole of applying for visas for my husband.

    But frankly that's beside the point at this stage - our goal is to live together and have a normal life. We've been determined to follow every step of the process correctly and courteously - there have been no calls to TDs or anything like that (what makes our desire to be together any greater than the other genuine couples who are currently forced to be apart by the misfortune of nationality?!) so I'm really hoping we'll be rewarded for this with the granting of his visa soon enough.

    If anythign comes through in the next week I'll come back and gloat post here. To all the rest of you spouses of non-nationals, best of luck with your wait, and know that in the end it will all be worth it, to be able to spend the rest of your life with the person you love.

    Hope it works out for you, but feel it's not right that the state is keeping you apart.


  • #57
    OS119
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    mike kelly wrote: »
    Only civil marriages should be recognised and these are conducted by our incorruptible civil servants.


    sorry, nobody is incorruptable.

    i'm a big fan of the civil service, but i'm afraid that if you offer enough money to enough people to do something that, while illegal, isn't likely to see them get caught, won't directly effect them, and isn't that bad in the great scheme of things, you'll find somebody who'll do it.


  • #58
    CamillaRhodes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 505 ✭✭✭CamillaRhodes


    mike kelly wrote: »
    Hope it works out for you, but feel it's not right that the state is keeping you apart.

    Thanks Mike, I agree, it hurts like a mofo, but this is the situation as it is at the moment and I don't believe in doing things by the backdoor, calling for sneaky favours from TDs and that sort of thing. There's so much of that sort of bullsh*t in my husband's country that it makes us both sick, part of the reason we're moving here is to get away from all the corruption, nepotism etc. - I'm sure there are some who will claim Ireland is hugely corrupt and nepotistic, but believe me you aint' seen nothing on some other countries! ;)

    I'm not a politician and I don't have any particularly better suggestions for how they shoudl handle this. Perhaps, as Cincikchick suggested, interviews with both husband and wife (together and seperately) to test the veracity of the relationship might be harder to fake than simply paperwork. But in the meantime, the system being what it is, we're just going with it and hoping that our honesty and directness will pay off.


  • #59
    mike kelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭mike kelly


    CamillaRhodes wrote: »
    I don't believe in doing things by the backdoor, calling for sneaky favours from TDs

    TDs are there to make representations on behalf of their constituents, that is their function in our democracy.


  • #60
    OS119
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    mike kelly wrote: »
    TDs are there to make representations on behalf of their constituents, that is their function in our democracy.

    not quite - their function in this case is to make representations to the INIS if you (on the advice of your lawyer) feel that your case is not being treated fairly (as in the same way as everyone else), competantly, or with an unreasonable delay.

    they may also - usually through a commitee - challenge either the wider policy, or the implementation of that policy.

    what they are not there to do is lobby for you to be excused from the rules.


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  • #61
    mike kelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭mike kelly


    OS119 wrote: »
    what they are not there to do is lobby for you to be excused from the rules.

    The rules state that the Minister can grant citizenship at his discretion. TDs are perfectly entitled to lobby him.


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