Citizenship for foreign spouse

mike kelly

hi,

i am an irish citizen living abroad and plan to wed a foreign woman. as we won't be living in ireland, it seems she will not qualify for irish citizenship after the wedding. is there any way around this? for example, getting a politician to petion the minister for foreign affairs (or whatever)? does the minister have the right to grant citizenship even if the formal conditions are not met?

seamus

mike kelly wrote: »

hi,

i am an irish citizen living abroad and plan to wed a foreign woman. as we won't be living in ireland, it seems she will not qualify for irish citizenship after the wedding. is there any way around this? for example, getting a politician to petion the minister for foreign affairs (or whatever)? does the minister have the right to grant citizenship even if the formal conditions are not met?

It has nothing to do with living abroad, the spouses of Irish citizens are no longer entitled to automatic citizenship in any case.

They have to make an application for citizenship through naturalisation, but one of the key parts of this requires them to live in Ireland for a specific period of time.

The rules are here:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship/becoming_an_irish_citizen_through_marriage

You could make an application directly to the minister for justice, but unless you have a very good reason why the rules shouldn't apply to your spouse, then he will refuse it.

mike kelly

seamus wrote: »

It has nothing to do with living abroad, the spouses of Irish citizens are no longer entitled to automatic citizenship in any case.

They have to make an application for citizenship through naturalisation, but one of the key parts of this requires them to live in Ireland for a specific period of time.

The rules are here:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship/becoming_an_irish_citizen_through_marriage

You could make an application directly to the minister for justice, but unless you have a very good reason why the rules shouldn't apply to your spouse, then he will refuse it.

thanks, but what could be a very good reason? I am a real irish person and this is a real (not sham) marriage. Still, it is good to know that I can directly petition the Minister. I will try contacting a TD I know to see if he can help me here.

pels

I have a hard time to see why they would grant citizenship for someone that doesn't even live in Ireland or have any intentions to do so.

mike kelly

pels wrote: »

I have a hard time to see why they would grant citizenship for someone that doesn't even live in Ireland or have any intentions to do so.

because irish citizens who live abroad should have the same rights as those who live in Ireland?

enda1

You do have the same rights!

There is no longer automatic citizenship whether the spouse lives in or outside Ireland.

Its about naturalisation.

seamus

mike kelly wrote: »

thanks, but what could be a very good reason?

I don't know, perhaps some scenario where your wife needs Irish citizenship to leave her home country, or to accept a job offer in Ireland. Outside of that, I can't think of any reason why she should be exempt from the rules?

pels

mike kelly wrote: »

because irish citizens who live abroad should have the same rights as those who live in Ireland?

Of course! But they way I see it citizenship should be given to foreign spouses of Irish people so that they can live and have a life together in Ireland. I mean, if I'd move to USA and settle there and find some nice bloke to marry, I wouldn't see a reason for the American dude to get Irish citizenship.

But then again, there might circumstances in some cases might change my mind.

mike kelly

up to 2005, this was an automatic right for foreign spouses. it was only changed because of the number of asyulm seekers who were entering ireland

mickoneill30

seamus wrote: »

I don't know, perhaps some scenario where your wife needs Irish citizenship to leave her home country, or to accept a job offer in Ireland. Outside of that, I can't think of any reason why she should be exempt from the rules?

I'm married to an Aussie. All we needed to do was go into GNIB and get an identity card. They do it there and then. You need your passports and your marriage cert. That's enough for residency and to work in Ireland.

We're just starting to look at citizenship over residency now as we've been married over 3 years. I didn't see any advantage to citizenship apart from being able to vote.

Saruman

As others have said, it is by naturalisation. It is no big deal, she will just have to get residency which is just a trip to immigration and she gets a card to display at the airport etc. After she is here long enough (4 years I think) she can apply for citizenship. This is a pain in the ass and long drawn out process of at least a year.

My wife is waiting for the same.

mickoneill30

Saruman wrote: »

As others have said, it is by naturalisation. It is no big deal, she will just have to get residency which is just a trip to immigration and she gets a card to display at the airport etc. After she is here long enough (4 years I think) she can apply for citizenship. This is a pain in the ass and long drawn out process of at least a year.

My wife is waiting for the same.

It's citizenship by marriage. Similar but there are some differences (e.g. 3 year rather than 4).

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship

Saruman

Yes but is it not 3 years of marriage and 4 years of actual residency in the state?

Oh wait.. maybe it all comes up to three years...
I wonder did my wife go the naturalisation route because I am sure she waited 4 years...

mickoneill30

Saruman wrote: »

Yes but is it not 3 years of marriage and 4 years of actual residency in the state?

Oh wait.. maybe it all comes up to three years...
I wonder did my wife go the naturalisation route because I am sure she waited 4 years...

It's 3 years of marriage
+
1 years of reckonable residence with 2 years prior to that (from the previous 4) being resident also.

So I took all that to mean 3.

It's a bit complicated
We haven't started our process yet. Something to look forward to.

mike kelly

mickoneill30 wrote: »

It's 3 years of marriage
+
1 years of reckonable residence with 2 years prior to that (from the previous 4) being resident also.

So I took all that to mean 3.

It's a bit complicated
We haven't started our process yet. Something to look forward to.

all of this bureaucracy and for what? at a time when Ireland is going down the financial tubes, this is a bad joke. the system as it worked up to 2005 was fine with no need for all these regulations.

did any of you try contacting a TD to speed up the process?

seamus

mike kelly wrote: »

all of this bureaucracy and for what? at a time when Ireland is going down the financial tubes, this is a bad joke. the system as it worked up to 2005 was fine with no need for all these regulations.

What's this got to do with the economy?

Do you even know what the system was before 2005?

The amendment in 2005 simply added the residency requirement, which makes sense IMO - why hand out citizenships to people who aren't living in Ireland and have no intention of living in Ireland?

Spouses of Irish citizens have never in the history of this country become citizens automatically upon marriage.

mickoneill30

mike kelly wrote: »

all of this bureaucracy and for what? at a time when Ireland is going down the financial tubes, this is a bad joke. the system as it worked up to 2005 was fine with no need for all these regulations.

did any of you try contacting a TD to speed up the process?

Why does the process need to be speeded up?

You can get residency in a couple of hours if you go into GNIB. With that you can stay in Ireland as long as you want and work.

Citizenship takes longer but it doesn't seem any different than any other country. Citizenship isn't really something I'd want our local TDs to be able to fasttrack.

mike kelly

"If you are a foreign national who is married to an Irish citizen, you may be able to become an Irish citizen if you meet certain conditions. Foreign nationals married to Irish citizens can apply for citizenship through naturalisation. The conditions relating to residence are more favourable than those for people who are not married to Irish citizens but there is no longer an absolute entitlement to citizenship through marriage. The Minister for Justice and Law Reform has discretion to grant or refuse your application. Up to 29 November 2005, it was possible to become an Irish citizen by making a post-nuptial declaration of citizenship (pdf) but this scheme has now ended."


from http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship/becoming_an_irish_citizen_through_marriage

mike kelly

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Why does the process need to be speeded up?

You can get residency in a couple of hours if you go into GNIB. With that you can stay in Ireland as long as you want and work.

Citizenship takes longer but it doesn't seem any different than any other country. Citizenship isn't really something I'd want our local TDs to be able to fasttrack.

as I understand, the Minister can grant citizenship at his discretion

mickoneill30

mike kelly wrote: »

as I understand, the Minister can grant citizenship at his discretion

I'm sure he can but I'd imagine the case would have to be extreme. Saying I just don't want to live here for the 3 years probably wouldn't do it.

mike kelly

mickoneill30 wrote: »

I'm sure he can but I'd imagine the case would have to be extreme. Saying I just don't want to live here for the 3 years probably wouldn't do it.

Yes, that's the point of getting a TD to help

seamus

mike kelly wrote: »

no longer an absolute entitlement to citizenship through marriage

Applicants still had to wait 3 years, and they still had to have their case assessed by the dept. of justice. As I say, you've never become a citizen automatically when you get married.

mike kelly wrote: »

Yes, that's the point of getting a TD to help

But what's the point in getting citizenship?

caseyann

mike kelly wrote: »

hi,

i am an irish citizen living abroad and plan to wed a foreign woman. as we won't be living in ireland, it seems she will not qualify for irish citizenship after the wedding. is there any way around this? for example, getting a politician to petion the minister for foreign affairs (or whatever)? does the minister have the right to grant citizenship even if the formal conditions are not met?

Can i ask why you want her to be an Irish citizen? Does it make any odds if yous arent living here as wont effect yous.

congratulations and all happiness for future

caseyann

seamus wrote: »

Applicants still had to wait 3 years, and they still had to have their case assessed by the dept. of justice. As I say, you've never become a citizen automatically when you get married.
But what's the point in getting citizenship?

Best thing they ever did and the cutting of the child born entitlement to stay been quashed also.

mike kelly

seamus wrote: »

But what's the point in getting citizenship?

makes international travel a lot easier

tatli_lokma

from your comment about international travel that leads me to belive your wife is a visa required nationality. Therefore the process is different from what other people have posted about getting GNIB cards straight away.

As someone who has done things as you are supposed to, and went through the system, waited the correct times etc, I find it quite annoying that you think you deserve to have special treatment than the rest of us. do you seriously think you are entitled to by pass the regulations.

I think you will have zero chance of getting a TD to petition your case for you - there are people married to non-nationals who live and work and pay taxes here in Ireland, who have children here with their spouse and they still have trouble getting citizenship for their partners, and there are no TD's who will help them, so why you would get special treatment I don't know...

the rules are there for a reason. Frustrating and sometimes silly to those of us who are genuine, but they are there because in the past it was too easy for the system to be manipulated. Up to 2005 the system was there to be abused. Personally although it was frustrating to go through the system, I was prepared to do it as they are the rules and if I want to live here with my husband then you need to accept this.

We don't have citizenship yet. Its a pain to have to apply for visas to travel within europe, but what can you do? In time he will hopefully get his citizenship, until then we just have to be glad he has residency and we can live together. That is the main reason we applied after all - so we could live together, not simply so we could go on holiday wherever we fancy!

Imagine it was like you say and even non resident spouses of Irish citizens could apply - basically you would be telling people you can get Irish citizenship without even having to leave your own country! that's just daft

tatli_lokma

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Why does the process need to be speeded up?

You can get residency in a couple of hours if you go into GNIB. With that you can stay in Ireland as long as you want and work.

Citizenship takes longer but it doesn't seem any different than any other country. Citizenship isn't really something I'd want our local TDs to be able to fasttrack.

that is nonsense! only non visa required nationalities get their residency assessed quickly. If you are married to a visa required national it takes longer. Ours took 5 mths from start of application to granting of residency. Then we only got 1 year as new laws say first residency can only be for 1 year, after that a longer period can be granted on subsequent applications. you can't stay 'as long as you want' - you can only stay as long as your residency permit allows. Some people get residency but are not granted stamp 4 work permits.

It is not cut and dried, one size fits all. There are various processes depending on your circumstances, how you entered the country initially, if you have previous convictions elsewhere, if you lived in another EU country - all of these things can affect how your application is processed.

Saruman

I think he just means that it would be easier if they could be in the same immigration lines and for her not to have to fill in paperwork etc.

At least that is the main reason my wife wants to be an Irish citizen.

tatli_lokma

ah boo hoo! I don't have a problem with my hubby having to queue and fill in paperwork to enter the country. Its not like its that big a deal, inconvenient yes, but hardly a good enough reason to get citizenship for. to be granted citizenship of a country is a serious and important thing, it shouldn't be trivialised by handing it out to anyone who wants it so they can travel easier and don't have to queue up at the airport!

sorry, maybe I'm being harsh, but that's just how I see it.

As an Irish citizen I don't want citizenship to be just given to anyone - even if they are married to an Irish person. In fact if the laws changed so my husband could travel in Europe more easily (i.e if we were Schengen) I doubt we would even bother applying for citizenship.

mickoneill30

Cincikchick wrote: »

that is nonsense! only non visa required nationalities get their residency assessed quickly. If you are married to a visa required national it takes longer. Ours took 5 mths from start of application to granting of residency. Then we only got 1 year as new laws say first residency can only be for 1 year, after that a longer period can be granted on subsequent applications. you can't stay 'as long as you want' - you can only stay as long as your residency permit allows. Some people get residency but are not granted stamp 4 work permits.

It is not cut and dried, one size fits all. There are various processes depending on your circumstances, how you entered the country initially, if you have previous convictions elsewhere, if you lived in another EU country - all of these things can affect how your application is processed.

Having gone through the process I'm going to have to say it's not nonsense. My wife is Aussie but needed a holiday visa to stay here (90 days) at the start.

If it's changed in the last 3 years then ignore my post.

Saruman

Cincikchick wrote: »

ah boo hoo!

How dare you judge someone for wanting to be a citizen for whatever reason.

In my case I said ease of travel was the main reason, not the only reason.

Boo hoo indeed...

tatli_lokma

its definitely changed in the last 3 years. If you now arrived on a holiday visa you would then have to apply to the Spouse of an Irish citizen section in writing (they don't even allow phone enquiries). while waiting for their decision you can request a non-deportation order so that once the holiday visa expires you won't get deported! Its then aprox 6 mths wait for their decision. If granted the first residency stamp will be for 1 year and may or may not have stamp 4 (but usually will). then subsequent applications are quicker, just a matter of attending Burgh quay together with some paperwork. It is at the descretion of the interviewing officer, but it at that stage you can get a renewal for 1-5 years (provided you are still married, living together and also have not come to the attention of the police .

After 3 years of residence then AFAIK you can apply for citizenship, but more and more people are being refused. I think they reckon since you have residency and can work here, its enough, but again it is on a case by case basis. and I am sure a lot depends on who processes your application (and what mood they are in the day they do it!)

tatli_lokma

Saruman wrote: »

How dare you judge someone for wanting to be a citizen for whatever reason.

In my case I said ease of travel was the main reason, not the only reason.

Boo hoo indeed...

sorry, but I place a lot of importance on my citizenship, and I would think it trivialising to give it out just so that basic travel would be easier. That being the case half the world would want Irish citizenship as we can travel to so many countries with ease - even more than UK citizens.

You should have a very strong reason for wanting to be an citizen of somewhere, as it is such a valuable thing. If Ireland joined schengen then many of the people who request citizenship would not need to do so.

sombaht

sorry, but I place a lot of importance on my citizenship,

Maybe those non-nationals who have busied themselves applying for citizenship also will (if granted) place an equal importance on their "new" citizenship as you do. Perhaps they would like a say in how the country is governed, maybe even run for local elections, lets face it they could hardly do any worse than the current lot we are stuck with.
As the spouse of a non-national my wife was more excited receiving her voters registration card than she was at receiving her Irish passport.

Cheers,
sombaht

mike kelly

Cincikchick wrote: »

sorry, but I place a lot of importance on my citizenship, and I would think it trivialising to give it out just so that basic travel would be easier. That being the case half the world would want Irish citizenship as we can travel to so many countries with ease - even more than UK citizens.

You should have a very strong reason for wanting to be an citizen of somewhere, as it is such a valuable thing. If Ireland joined schengen then many of the people who request citizenship would not need to do so.

I see it is perfectly normal that the spouse of an irish citizen has a right to become an irish citizen also. What about the children? Will they have an automatic right to irish citizenship regardless of where they are born?

I worked in Ireland for a long time and have had to leave due to economic factors. Should I be punished for this? Money sent home by emigrants was what kept Ireland afloat for many years and now we are being treated in a shameful manner by "our" government.

danbohan

Cincikchick wrote: »

ah boo hoo! I don't have a problem with my hubby having to queue and fill in paperwork to enter the country. Its not like its that big a deal, inconvenient yes, but hardly a good enough reason to get citizenship for. to be granted citizenship of a country is a serious and important thing, it shouldn't be trivialised by handing it out to anyone who wants it so they can travel easier and don't have to queue up at the airport!

sorry, maybe I'm being harsh, but that's just how I see it.

As an Irish citizen I don't want citizenship to be just given to anyone - even if they are married to an Irish person. In fact if the laws changed so my husband could travel in Europe more easily (i.e if we were Schengen) I doubt we would even bother applying for citizenship.

have you ever considered what your husbands postion in this country would be if you died and he does not have irish citzenship ? you would be happy that he could not continuie to live here ?

mike kelly

danbohan wrote: »

have you ever considered what your husbands postion in this country would be if you died and he does not have irish citzenship ? you would be happy that he could not continuie to live here ?

good point, another reason for automatic granting of citizenship upon marriage

tatli_lokma

sombaht wrote: »

Maybe those non-nationals who have busied themselves applying for citizenship also will (if granted) place an equal importance on their "new" citizenship as you do. Perhaps they would like a say in how the country is governed, maybe even run for local elections, lets face it they could hardly do any worse than the current lot we are stuck with.
As the spouse of a non-national my wife was more excited receiving her voters registration card than she was at receiving her Irish passport.

Cheers,
sombaht

that is my point exactly - that your main reason for wanting citizenship should be for reasons such as those you mention, and not just because it makes travel easier.

danbohan wrote: »

have you ever considered what your husbands postion in this country would be if you died and he does not have irish citzenship ? you would be happy that he could not continuie to live here ?

If he were here more than 3 years, had a job, home and paid taxes then as my widower he would be granted continued residency. This is something I specifically asked. If we had children of course then it would be easier again for him as he would have the right to remain as their guardian.

However, were I to die (please god, not for a while yet!), my husband would probably high tail it back 'home' as his main reason for living here is to be with me. Its certainly not cos of the weather! :P

I wonder would so many people want citizenship if they had to give up their original citizenship? I mean if they couldn't have dual citizenship. It would be a very difficult thing for me to do, I know that, regardless of how easy it would make taking a holiday!

tatli_lokma

mike kelly wrote: »

good point, another reason for automatic granting of citizenship upon marriage

there is already a problem with people marrying for visas, if you gave automatic citizenship I can only imagine how bad it would be. It is past abuse of the system that means genuine couples have so much paperwork and red tape to clear. If you automatically gave Irish citizenship, then you would be just asking for trouble. Your idea of automatic citizenship is just ludicrous IMO.

Have you never heard of the 'five year plan'????

mike kelly

Cincikchick wrote: »

Have you never heard of the 'five year plan'????

It worked well for Stalin but I can't see it succeeding in Ireland

What's that got to do with the topic anyway?

tatli_lokma

mike kelly wrote: »

It worked well for Stalin but I can't see it succeeding in Ireland

What's that got to do with the topic anyway?

:rolleyes:

its well known that many people marry UK and Irish nationals in order to get a passport. the average time for this is 5 years.

This is particularly common in the UK, where literally once the passport and permanent residence is granted, the divorce papers are filed. It is a known practice, and I personally know of a two guys who admitted that they don't particularly love their wives, but they will stick it out for another 2 years until they hopefully get citizenship, one is living in Ireland, the other the UK. The plan is to then divorce, return home, find a wife there and bring her to Ireland. One of the men is actually planning on bringing his first wife to England - he only divorced her so that he could marry a UK woman with the long term plan of bringing his first wife and kids to the UK to live once he got his passport. He has never actually broken up with her, they both see his marriage in the UK as a means to an end.

I also know of 2 people who have been approached by non-nationals with the proposition of paying to get married. It already happens to get residency, so if citizenship was automatic it would be even more commonplace.

tbh

I know an Australian bloke who married an Irish girl so he could come here and she could go there.

mike kelly

Cincikchick wrote: »

:rolleyes:

its well known that many people marry UK and Irish nationals in order to get a passport. the average time for this is 5 years.

This is particularly common in the UK, where literally once the passport and permanent residence is granted, the divorce papers are filed. It is a known practice, and I personally know of a two guys who admitted that they don't particularly love their wives, but they will stick it out for another 2 years until they hopefully get citizenship, one is living in Ireland, the other the UK. The plan is to then divorce, return home, find a wife there and bring her to Ireland. One of the men is actually planning on bringing his first wife to England - he only divorced her so that he could marry a UK woman with the long term plan of bringing his first wife and kids to the UK to live once he got his passport. He has never actually broken up with her, they both see his marriage in the UK as a means to an end.

I also know of 2 people who have been approached by non-nationals with the proposition of paying to get married. It already happens to get residency, so if citizenship was automatic it would be even more commonplace.

whatever happened to the presumption of innocence? aren't we all equal before the law? foreign spouses are no more likely to committ crimes than irish ones

mike kelly

tbh wrote: »

I know an Australian bloke who married an Irish girl so he could come here and she could go there.

that's the type of creative thinking that our country needs.

tatli_lokma

mike kelly wrote: »

whatever happened to the presumption of innocence? aren't we all equal before the law? foreign spouses are no more likely to committ crimes than irish ones

what are you talking about? what has that got to do with my post?
the fact is an Irish person wouldn't need to marry an Irish person to get citizenship or remain in Ireland! so obviously only non-nationals would need to marry an Irish person to get a passport. so an irish person doesn't need to break the law in that manner! Duh!

and Irish people were the 'foreign' spouse many countries such as the US and Australia and plenty of Irish married for a green card. My friend's brother did just that in Australia. The 'wife' knew all along it was a marriage of convenience, and she was happy to go along with it. Then there are those who are not upfront about their reasons for marriage, and 5 years down the line there are some very confused and hurt women and men when their partner walks out.

Being married to a foreign national myself, I have heard so many stories that have made my face to this :eek:.

Originally I thought that it was a bit silly some of the hoops we had to jump through for him to move here with me. But after talking to other 'foreigners' my husband and I have been shocked at the amount of people who are surprised that he actually married for love, that he doesn't particularly want to be an irish citizen, that he doesn't have plans to divorce when he is granted permanent residency. He has been asked out right by someone when can he get divorced. When he answered that he has no reason to get divorced, he loves me they laughed at him!

We have heard of people marrying cousins to get the rest of the family over, men with wives back in their home country etc etc. It is crazy the amount of mad stories you hear of people trying to abuse the system. As a result I am actually glad that it is not as easy as it used to be. If we have to put up with the inconvenience of not being able to travel in Europe as a result then so be it - I would rather that then have the citizenship handed out with your marriage licence.

niceoneted

Cincikchick, if you are aware of underhanded marriages that have taken place where once citizenship of Ire or Uk can be taken up you should report them. It is not too late.

There are a number of marriages of EU and non EU nationals that have been stopped this year in Ireland.
It is always a few that can make the majority tarred with the one brush.

I think it is valid that one does not get automatic citizenship on marriage. My sister married an English lad and he did not get automatic citizenship.

In terms of kids Mike you can get Irish passports for them even if they are born in a different state. As some others mentioned the process is a little more not necessarily difficult but perhaps long winded if your intended wife is from a country that is visa required. Is this the case?

Good luck with the wedding.

tatli_lokma

niceoneted wrote: »

It is always a few that can make the majority tarred with the one brush.

you're so right - and it really annoys me, because as a result of these people, genuine couples have a more difficult and time consuming process.

As for reporting them, I doubt it would do much good. Afterall, these people have supposedly provided documents and had interviews with immigration. so without actual proof of what they are doing, and not just comments they made, I wonder what would be done. That is half the problem. I would have no problem with having home visits, scheduled interviews etc, as my case is genuine and our relationship can be proven as genuine and we were going out 3 years before marriage. I don't know why this practice isn't done? We didn't even have to attend for an interview, just give our paperwork (and wait 5 long months!). Which was less hassle, but had we been called for interview I would have had no issue with it.

I think this area needs to be better monitored and maintained.
There are also people living here on spousal residence who are separated from their partner. If you are no longer living together you are not suppsed to be permitted to remain on the grounds of marriage. In that case if there are children you should apply on those grounds, if no children apply on grounds to remain based on other factors. INIS know of many of these people staying on spouse visas and not living with their partners and yet they do nothing. It is very frustrating for the genuine cases.

danbohan

Cincikchick wrote: »

that is my point exactly - that your main reason for wanting citizenship should be for reasons such as those you mention, and not just because it makes travel easier.



If he were here more than 3 years, had a job, home and paid taxes then as my widower he would be granted continued residency. This is something I specifically asked. If we had children of course then it would be easier again for him as he would have the right to remain as their guardian.

However, were I to die (please god, not for a while yet!), my husband would probably high tail it back 'home' as his main reason for living here is to be with me. Its certainly not cos of the weather! :P

I wonder would so many people want citizenship if they had to give up their original citizenship? I mean if they couldn't have dual citizenship. It would be a very difficult thing for me to do, I know that, regardless of how easy it would make taking a holiday!

If he were here more than 3 years, had a job, home and paid taxes then as my widower he would be granted continued residency.

ok in your situation
but in other situations where wife /husband does not work is housewife/homemaker they would be forced to leave the country and return home whether they wanted too or not , hardly a fair system

tatli_lokma

danbohan wrote: »

ok in your situation
but in other situations where wife /husband does not work is housewife/homemaker they would be forced to leave the country and return home whether they wanted too or not , hardly a fair system

that is not true, they would just need to apply for residency on a different basis. If you can support yourself without need for government intervention, have not been in trouble with the law, etc you would have a good case for requesting continued residency. The more things you have in your favour the better, such as possibly a house here.
If you have children then you could apply to remain as their legal guardian.

you would not literally be 'forced' to return 'home' as soon as the ink on the death cert is dry.

You might think the system is not fair, and you are right in many instances. But most of the unfair situations are the result of people abusing the system. Personally I think it would be more unfair to hand out citizenship purely on the basis of marriage, as to do that would just make a mockery of the system.

mike kelly

Cincikchick, can you tell us what these abuses are that you keep talking about? How can marriage be described as an abuse?

OS119

mike kelly wrote: »

Cincikchick, can you tell us what these abuses are that you keep talking about? How can marriage be described as an abuse?

this is a good indicator.

http://http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7819036/Vicar-conducted-sham-marriages-for-illegals.html

its in the UK, but the rules are the same, and the 'prize' is the same.

a CofE vicar conducted 383 marriages between 2005 and 2009, almost all of them are believed to be sham marriages - the two people invovled in each sham marriage didn't know each other, had no contact after the wedding, and got married either for cash, or the right of residency in the EEA.

it was simple, straightforward, relatively cheap fraud. the vicar was convicted, but no sentance has yet been passed.

be interesting to know whether such a marriage can be disolved/anulled by the state and without recource to the parties involved...