Citizenship for foreign spouse

mike kelly

hi,

i am an irish citizen living abroad and plan to wed a foreign woman. as we won't be living in ireland, it seems she will not qualify for irish citizenship after the wedding. is there any way around this? for example, getting a politician to petion the minister for foreign affairs (or whatever)? does the minister have the right to grant citizenship even if the formal conditions are not met?

seamus

mike kelly wrote: »

hi,

i am an irish citizen living abroad and plan to wed a foreign woman. as we won't be living in ireland, it seems she will not qualify for irish citizenship after the wedding. is there any way around this? for example, getting a politician to petion the minister for foreign affairs (or whatever)? does the minister have the right to grant citizenship even if the formal conditions are not met?

It has nothing to do with living abroad, the spouses of Irish citizens are no longer entitled to automatic citizenship in any case.

They have to make an application for citizenship through naturalisation, but one of the key parts of this requires them to live in Ireland for a specific period of time.

The rules are here:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship/becoming_an_irish_citizen_through_marriage

You could make an application directly to the minister for justice, but unless you have a very good reason why the rules shouldn't apply to your spouse, then he will refuse it.

mike kelly

seamus wrote: »

It has nothing to do with living abroad, the spouses of Irish citizens are no longer entitled to automatic citizenship in any case.

They have to make an application for citizenship through naturalisation, but one of the key parts of this requires them to live in Ireland for a specific period of time.

The rules are here:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship/becoming_an_irish_citizen_through_marriage

You could make an application directly to the minister for justice, but unless you have a very good reason why the rules shouldn't apply to your spouse, then he will refuse it.

thanks, but what could be a very good reason? I am a real irish person and this is a real (not sham) marriage. Still, it is good to know that I can directly petition the Minister. I will try contacting a TD I know to see if he can help me here.

pels

I have a hard time to see why they would grant citizenship for someone that doesn't even live in Ireland or have any intentions to do so.

mike kelly

pels wrote: »

I have a hard time to see why they would grant citizenship for someone that doesn't even live in Ireland or have any intentions to do so.

because irish citizens who live abroad should have the same rights as those who live in Ireland?

enda1

You do have the same rights!

There is no longer automatic citizenship whether the spouse lives in or outside Ireland.

Its about naturalisation.

seamus

mike kelly wrote: »

thanks, but what could be a very good reason?

I don't know, perhaps some scenario where your wife needs Irish citizenship to leave her home country, or to accept a job offer in Ireland. Outside of that, I can't think of any reason why she should be exempt from the rules?

pels

mike kelly wrote: »

because irish citizens who live abroad should have the same rights as those who live in Ireland?

Of course! But they way I see it citizenship should be given to foreign spouses of Irish people so that they can live and have a life together in Ireland. I mean, if I'd move to USA and settle there and find some nice bloke to marry, I wouldn't see a reason for the American dude to get Irish citizenship.

But then again, there might circumstances in some cases might change my mind.

mike kelly

up to 2005, this was an automatic right for foreign spouses. it was only changed because of the number of asyulm seekers who were entering ireland

mickoneill30

seamus wrote: »

I don't know, perhaps some scenario where your wife needs Irish citizenship to leave her home country, or to accept a job offer in Ireland. Outside of that, I can't think of any reason why she should be exempt from the rules?

I'm married to an Aussie. All we needed to do was go into GNIB and get an identity card. They do it there and then. You need your passports and your marriage cert. That's enough for residency and to work in Ireland.

We're just starting to look at citizenship over residency now as we've been married over 3 years. I didn't see any advantage to citizenship apart from being able to vote.

Saruman

As others have said, it is by naturalisation. It is no big deal, she will just have to get residency which is just a trip to immigration and she gets a card to display at the airport etc. After she is here long enough (4 years I think) she can apply for citizenship. This is a pain in the ass and long drawn out process of at least a year.

My wife is waiting for the same.

mickoneill30

Saruman wrote: »

As others have said, it is by naturalisation. It is no big deal, she will just have to get residency which is just a trip to immigration and she gets a card to display at the airport etc. After she is here long enough (4 years I think) she can apply for citizenship. This is a pain in the ass and long drawn out process of at least a year.

My wife is waiting for the same.

It's citizenship by marriage. Similar but there are some differences (e.g. 3 year rather than 4).

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship

Saruman

Yes but is it not 3 years of marriage and 4 years of actual residency in the state?

Oh wait.. maybe it all comes up to three years...
I wonder did my wife go the naturalisation route because I am sure she waited 4 years...

mickoneill30

Saruman wrote: »

Yes but is it not 3 years of marriage and 4 years of actual residency in the state?

Oh wait.. maybe it all comes up to three years...
I wonder did my wife go the naturalisation route because I am sure she waited 4 years...

It's 3 years of marriage
+
1 years of reckonable residence with 2 years prior to that (from the previous 4) being resident also.

So I took all that to mean 3.

It's a bit complicated
We haven't started our process yet. Something to look forward to.

mike kelly

mickoneill30 wrote: »

It's 3 years of marriage
+
1 years of reckonable residence with 2 years prior to that (from the previous 4) being resident also.

So I took all that to mean 3.

It's a bit complicated
We haven't started our process yet. Something to look forward to.

all of this bureaucracy and for what? at a time when Ireland is going down the financial tubes, this is a bad joke. the system as it worked up to 2005 was fine with no need for all these regulations.

did any of you try contacting a TD to speed up the process?

seamus

mike kelly wrote: »

all of this bureaucracy and for what? at a time when Ireland is going down the financial tubes, this is a bad joke. the system as it worked up to 2005 was fine with no need for all these regulations.

What's this got to do with the economy?

Do you even know what the system was before 2005?

The amendment in 2005 simply added the residency requirement, which makes sense IMO - why hand out citizenships to people who aren't living in Ireland and have no intention of living in Ireland?

Spouses of Irish citizens have never in the history of this country become citizens automatically upon marriage.

mickoneill30

mike kelly wrote: »

all of this bureaucracy and for what? at a time when Ireland is going down the financial tubes, this is a bad joke. the system as it worked up to 2005 was fine with no need for all these regulations.

did any of you try contacting a TD to speed up the process?

Why does the process need to be speeded up?

You can get residency in a couple of hours if you go into GNIB. With that you can stay in Ireland as long as you want and work.

Citizenship takes longer but it doesn't seem any different than any other country. Citizenship isn't really something I'd want our local TDs to be able to fasttrack.

mike kelly

"If you are a foreign national who is married to an Irish citizen, you may be able to become an Irish citizen if you meet certain conditions. Foreign nationals married to Irish citizens can apply for citizenship through naturalisation. The conditions relating to residence are more favourable than those for people who are not married to Irish citizens but there is no longer an absolute entitlement to citizenship through marriage. The Minister for Justice and Law Reform has discretion to grant or refuse your application. Up to 29 November 2005, it was possible to become an Irish citizen by making a post-nuptial declaration of citizenship (pdf) but this scheme has now ended."


from http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship/becoming_an_irish_citizen_through_marriage

mike kelly

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Why does the process need to be speeded up?

You can get residency in a couple of hours if you go into GNIB. With that you can stay in Ireland as long as you want and work.

Citizenship takes longer but it doesn't seem any different than any other country. Citizenship isn't really something I'd want our local TDs to be able to fasttrack.

as I understand, the Minister can grant citizenship at his discretion

mickoneill30

mike kelly wrote: »

as I understand, the Minister can grant citizenship at his discretion

I'm sure he can but I'd imagine the case would have to be extreme. Saying I just don't want to live here for the 3 years probably wouldn't do it.

mike kelly

mickoneill30 wrote: »

I'm sure he can but I'd imagine the case would have to be extreme. Saying I just don't want to live here for the 3 years probably wouldn't do it.

Yes, that's the point of getting a TD to help

seamus

mike kelly wrote: »

no longer an absolute entitlement to citizenship through marriage

Applicants still had to wait 3 years, and they still had to have their case assessed by the dept. of justice. As I say, you've never become a citizen automatically when you get married.

mike kelly wrote: »

Yes, that's the point of getting a TD to help

But what's the point in getting citizenship?

caseyann

mike kelly wrote: »

hi,

i am an irish citizen living abroad and plan to wed a foreign woman. as we won't be living in ireland, it seems she will not qualify for irish citizenship after the wedding. is there any way around this? for example, getting a politician to petion the minister for foreign affairs (or whatever)? does the minister have the right to grant citizenship even if the formal conditions are not met?

Can i ask why you want her to be an Irish citizen? Does it make any odds if yous arent living here as wont effect yous.

congratulations and all happiness for future

caseyann

seamus wrote: »

Applicants still had to wait 3 years, and they still had to have their case assessed by the dept. of justice. As I say, you've never become a citizen automatically when you get married.
But what's the point in getting citizenship?

Best thing they ever did and the cutting of the child born entitlement to stay been quashed also.

mike kelly

seamus wrote: »

But what's the point in getting citizenship?

makes international travel a lot easier

tatli_lokma

from your comment about international travel that leads me to belive your wife is a visa required nationality. Therefore the process is different from what other people have posted about getting GNIB cards straight away.

As someone who has done things as you are supposed to, and went through the system, waited the correct times etc, I find it quite annoying that you think you deserve to have special treatment than the rest of us. do you seriously think you are entitled to by pass the regulations.

I think you will have zero chance of getting a TD to petition your case for you - there are people married to non-nationals who live and work and pay taxes here in Ireland, who have children here with their spouse and they still have trouble getting citizenship for their partners, and there are no TD's who will help them, so why you would get special treatment I don't know...

the rules are there for a reason. Frustrating and sometimes silly to those of us who are genuine, but they are there because in the past it was too easy for the system to be manipulated. Up to 2005 the system was there to be abused. Personally although it was frustrating to go through the system, I was prepared to do it as they are the rules and if I want to live here with my husband then you need to accept this.

We don't have citizenship yet. Its a pain to have to apply for visas to travel within europe, but what can you do? In time he will hopefully get his citizenship, until then we just have to be glad he has residency and we can live together. That is the main reason we applied after all - so we could live together, not simply so we could go on holiday wherever we fancy!

Imagine it was like you say and even non resident spouses of Irish citizens could apply - basically you would be telling people you can get Irish citizenship without even having to leave your own country! that's just daft

tatli_lokma

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Why does the process need to be speeded up?

You can get residency in a couple of hours if you go into GNIB. With that you can stay in Ireland as long as you want and work.

Citizenship takes longer but it doesn't seem any different than any other country. Citizenship isn't really something I'd want our local TDs to be able to fasttrack.

that is nonsense! only non visa required nationalities get their residency assessed quickly. If you are married to a visa required national it takes longer. Ours took 5 mths from start of application to granting of residency. Then we only got 1 year as new laws say first residency can only be for 1 year, after that a longer period can be granted on subsequent applications. you can't stay 'as long as you want' - you can only stay as long as your residency permit allows. Some people get residency but are not granted stamp 4 work permits.

It is not cut and dried, one size fits all. There are various processes depending on your circumstances, how you entered the country initially, if you have previous convictions elsewhere, if you lived in another EU country - all of these things can affect how your application is processed.

Saruman

I think he just means that it would be easier if they could be in the same immigration lines and for her not to have to fill in paperwork etc.

At least that is the main reason my wife wants to be an Irish citizen.

tatli_lokma

ah boo hoo! I don't have a problem with my hubby having to queue and fill in paperwork to enter the country. Its not like its that big a deal, inconvenient yes, but hardly a good enough reason to get citizenship for. to be granted citizenship of a country is a serious and important thing, it shouldn't be trivialised by handing it out to anyone who wants it so they can travel easier and don't have to queue up at the airport!

sorry, maybe I'm being harsh, but that's just how I see it.

As an Irish citizen I don't want citizenship to be just given to anyone - even if they are married to an Irish person. In fact if the laws changed so my husband could travel in Europe more easily (i.e if we were Schengen) I doubt we would even bother applying for citizenship.

mickoneill30

Cincikchick wrote: »

that is nonsense! only non visa required nationalities get their residency assessed quickly. If you are married to a visa required national it takes longer. Ours took 5 mths from start of application to granting of residency. Then we only got 1 year as new laws say first residency can only be for 1 year, after that a longer period can be granted on subsequent applications. you can't stay 'as long as you want' - you can only stay as long as your residency permit allows. Some people get residency but are not granted stamp 4 work permits.

It is not cut and dried, one size fits all. There are various processes depending on your circumstances, how you entered the country initially, if you have previous convictions elsewhere, if you lived in another EU country - all of these things can affect how your application is processed.

Having gone through the process I'm going to have to say it's not nonsense. My wife is Aussie but needed a holiday visa to stay here (90 days) at the start.

If it's changed in the last 3 years then ignore my post.

Saruman

Cincikchick wrote: »

ah boo hoo!

How dare you judge someone for wanting to be a citizen for whatever reason.

In my case I said ease of travel was the main reason, not the only reason.

Boo hoo indeed...