If stopped by a guard can you ask them for ID?

carminaburana · 01-08-2010 02:05AM

I would like to add my tuppenceworth to this discussion.
I am female, early 40's, and last year was stopped on the Lucan bypass by an unmarked car(??)allegedly for speeding. This car was a '05 white Ford Mondeo, and seemed for some time to be tailgaiting me to the extent where I was considering that this driver was harrassing me. He then flashed alternating white (not blue) lights at me, and I thought that this may be possibly an unmarked car intercepting my journey, but did not know why, as I was not speeding, and had not approached the slower speed Zones.
I then pulled over, and this dirty, ungroomed figure of a shortish man approached me, poss in his 50's, (thought Gardai of his age should be Five ft nine ins at least), and I felt he was not a true blue. He flashed a very dirty wallet at me, with a photo and a badge. the badge was all the one colour and had an imprint of a building on it. I only opened my window a little, as I was truly terrified, even in daylight. He told me I was speeding, I told him I had not even approached the traffic -calming area, and pointed to it further down the road. He then requested me to show my insurance details at a station of my choice. I told him where I would show same. He did not say what the outcome was going to be. I showed my insurance at my local station, but they had no details of anything. I was terrified after this experience, and I would like to warn other female drivers about this. I think he was a garda impersonator, and God knows what the outcome of my encounter with this individual could have been. Ladies, please be careful. Glad I stumbled upon this thread to warn others... If in doubt do not stop. Phone reg details to any station to see if it is a genuine garda car.

jcd5971 · 01-08-2010 12:10PM

If a cop or anyone knocks at my door late at night or day for that matter and i`m not expecting them , ill be ready to close the door, and if its late at night my 9 iron golf club is in the other hand hidden behind the door, I will give this person a few seconds to state there buisness, if its a member of the gardai in full uniform, and we all know it so lets kop on a bit with the
``oh it could be a fake garda`` nonsense.

If this person informs me that a house in the area was burgled keep vigilant, blah blah blah etc etc etc, i will listen politely and thank them for their time, if the ask me any direct questions or make me in any way cautious i will ask for id. if the fail to supply it or refuse i will then close the door if they try to stop me closing the door then god help them garda or not because they will get a firm belt of a golf club into the head, my house was burgled once and it will not happen again.

( BTW when i was burgled the gardai where very polite and understanding, but in the end about as useful as a fart in a spacesuit, tho its understandable they couldn`t catch the thieving lowlife/lowlives, they where probably busy catchin real criminals commiting serious crimes like driving at 120 instead of 100 on a dual carrigeway.....)

McCrack · 01-08-2010 02:38PM

jcd5971 wrote: »

If a cop or anyone knocks at my door late at night or day for that matter and i`m not expecting them , ill be ready to close the door, and if its late at night my 9 iron golf club is in the other hand hidden behind the door, I will give this person a few seconds to state there buisness, if its a member of the gardai in full uniform, and we all know it so lets kop on a bit with the
``oh it could be a fake garda`` nonsense.

If this person informs me that a house in the area was burgled keep vigilant, blah blah blah etc etc etc, i will listen politely and thank them for their time, if the ask me any direct questions or make me in any way cautious i will ask for id. if the fail to supply it or refuse i will then close the door if they try to stop me closing the door then god help them garda or not because they will get a firm belt of a golf club into the head, my house was burgled once and it will not happen again.

( BTW when i was burgled the gardai where very polite and understanding, but in the end about as useful as a fart in a spacesuit, tho its understandable they couldn`t catch the thieving lowlife/lowlives, they where probably busy catchin real criminals commiting serious crimes like driving at 120 instead of 100 on a dual carrigeway.....)

That's the spirit.

Good luck in life.

Locust · 01-08-2010 07:33PM

jcd5971 wrote: »

If a cop or anyone knocks at my door late at night or day for that matter and i`m not expecting them , ill be ready to close the door, and if its late at night my 9 iron golf club is in the other hand hidden behind the door, I will give this person a few seconds to state there buisness, if its a member of the gardai in full uniform, and we all know it so lets kop on a bit with the
``oh it could be a fake garda`` nonsense.

If this person informs me that a house in the area was burgled keep vigilant, blah blah blah etc etc etc, i will listen politely and thank them for their time, if the ask me any direct questions or make me in any way cautious i will ask for id. if the fail to supply it or refuse i will then close the door if they try to stop me closing the door then god help them garda or not because they will get a firm belt of a golf club into the head, my house was burgled once and it will not happen again.

( BTW when i was burgled the gardai where very polite and understanding, but in the end about as useful as a fart in a spacesuit, tho its understandable they couldn`t catch the thieving lowlife/lowlives, they where probably busy catchin real criminals commiting serious crimes like driving at 120 instead of 100 on a dual carrigeway.....)

Do you realise a 'belt' of a 9 iron to the head could kill/brain damage? To say this action is 'very' foolish and regrettable is an understatement. To swing your 9 iron at a guard in uniform coming in your door. If a guard - (THE POLICE) is 'forcing' his way in, as in your hypothetical instance, i'm sure he has a bloody good reason. I would advise you to rethink your home security policy. Good luck to you sir.

MagicSean · 01-08-2010 10:40PM

jcd5971 wrote: »

If a cop or anyone knocks at my door late at night or day for that matter and i`m not expecting them , ill be ready to close the door, and if its late at night my 9 iron golf club is in the other hand hidden behind the door, I will give this person a few seconds to state there buisness, if its a member of the gardai in full uniform, and we all know it so lets kop on a bit with the
``oh it could be a fake garda`` nonsense.

If this person informs me that a house in the area was burgled keep vigilant, blah blah blah etc etc etc, i will listen politely and thank them for their time, if the ask me any direct questions or make me in any way cautious i will ask for id. if the fail to supply it or refuse i will then close the door if they try to stop me closing the door then god help them garda or not because they will get a firm belt of a golf club into the head, my house was burgled once and it will not happen again.

( BTW when i was burgled the gardai where very polite and understanding, but in the end about as useful as a fart in a spacesuit, tho its understandable they couldn`t catch the thieving lowlife/lowlives, they where probably busy catchin real criminals commiting serious crimes like driving at 120 instead of 100 on a dual carrigeway.....)

Yes i'm sure they fell over themselves to help you. You seem like such a nice person. I would advise you against hitting anyone in a uniform over the head with a golf club.

jcd5971 · 02-08-2010 01:53AM

Locust wrote: »

Do you realise a 'belt' of a 9 iron to the head could kill/brain damage? To say this action is 'very' foolish and regrettable is an understatement. To swing your 9 iron at a guard in uniform coming in your door. If a guard - (THE POLICE) is 'forcing' his way in, as in your hypothetical instance, i'm sure he has a bloody good reason. I would advise you to rethink your home security policy. Good luck to you sir.

oh come on i was merely attempting a bit of humour, as this thread is tbh quite ridiculous, though i seriously believe the gaardai could utilise there resources better than `` two squad cars and about 4/5 gardai stopping traffic to check for tax , insurance etc , thrice in the last month or so on a dual carrige way, outside limerick. when certain elements of society totally flout law in order and ruin the city for the rest of us....

but in all seriousness, I think most of us comply totally with the gardai( i know i always have the few times i`ve met them) they have a hard job and more power to them, I just think as an ordinary joe soap they could come across as less ( arrogant is too strong a word but a lot of ye are moody to put it mildly)

as for my statement about them being useless, yeah i take that back as a bit unfair, but when yer told after a week or two `` we`re not saying we`re giving up on catching the person(who robbed my house), but until we get new evidence leads etc. thats all we can do for now, and we need to use our pressed resources elsewhere as the need is greater (or words to that effect) its frustrating , especially when you then meet said tax/insurance checkpoints every bloody couple of weeks..

but i`m sure there is nothing the rank and file garda can do about that so i unreservedly apologise for saying ye are as useful as a fart in a space suit( even though it was ment as tounge in cheek;))

Yes i'm sure they fell over themselves to help you. You seem like such a nice person.

well k-mac if you decide to not help someone who has had thousands of euro worth of stuff and some things of irreplaceable sentimental value stolen, based soley on if they are nice to you, then you all messing aside you should be ashamed of yourself. you hardly expect people at their best do you, you often meet ppl on the worst days of their lives, i would have thought you would empathise with these people a little at least.

hencek · 29-08-2010 09:18PM

Do any of the Gardai on here not think it is a silly situation that the only system of ID you have are items of clothing. Wouldn't it make more sense to show a photographic ID with the information you are obliged to give out ie: Surname, Rank, Station and an ID or badge number? The photgraph wouldn't be a problem surely when your faces would be on display anyway. Whether it can be copied or not is irrelavant, can you not see the stupidity of having to give this information verbally (or face visually obviously) but wanting not to have a card showing this?

detective · 30-08-2010 12:17AM

hencek wrote: »

Do any of the Gardai on here not think it is a silly situation that the only system of ID you have are items of clothing. Wouldn't it make more sense to show a photographic ID with the information you are obliged to give out ie: Surname, Rank, Station and an ID or badge number? The photgraph wouldn't be a problem surely when your faces would be on display anyway. Whether it can be copied or not is irrelavant, can you not see the stupidity of having to give this information verbally (or face visually obviously) but wanting not to have a card showing this?

I don't think we are the only police force in the world that is primarily recognised by our uniform. I think that is quite standard? I lived in the UK and the USA and I don't ever recall seeing a police officer with "photographic ID with the information you are obliged to give out ie: Surname, Rank, Station and an ID or badge number". So no I don't think it's silly at all. As a Garda I am obliged to carry my ID at all times. I'm also obliged to give my name, rank, registered number and station as required. Plus as well as our faces being on display our rank and shoulder numbers are also on display. So we are identifiable. And in fairness you could probably give a good shout at our station too based on where we are when you see us no?

MagicSean · 30-08-2010 08:54AM

I can't look back over the posts at the moment but the only legal obligation I am aware of is for a Garda to identify themselves as a member when not in uniform.

detective · 30-08-2010 12:55PM

k_mac wrote: »

I can't look back over the posts at the moment but the only legal obligation I am aware of is for a Garda to identify themselves as a member when not in uniform.

I'm open to correction on this but I believe the only piece of statute which makes a requirement for Gardai to produce their ID is Sec 30 OASA. However Garda code (which I won't be going into in any detail at all) makes plenty reference to ID cards and their use. Gardai must carry their ID at all times whether in or out of uniform, whether on or off duty...

MagicSean · 30-08-2010 03:17PM

detective wrote: »

I'm open to correction on this but I believe the only piece of statute which makes a requirement for Gardai to produce their ID is Sec 30 OASA. However Garda code (which I won't be going into in any detail at all) makes plenty reference to ID cards and their use. Gardai must carry their ID at all times whether in or out of uniform, whether on or off duty...

I agree. But that would only relate to internal discipline. It isn't a legal requirement. It brings to mind a hearing I attended a month ago in which the defence barrister tried to introduce the suggestion that the arresting garda breached to code regulations in relation to handcuffs during the arrest. The judge stopped him in his tracks straight away and would not allow him to follow the line of questioning. In fact it seemed to really annoy the judge.

speedfight · 02-09-2010 04:09PM

k_mac wrote: »

He hasn't quoted any law that obliges production of ID. He has quoted Garda practice which is mentioned in the letter. The only law that obliges gardaí to produce ID on demand that I am aware of is the Road Traffic Act and that is only for plain clothes gardaí when they stop a vehicle.

detective wrote: »

I'm open to correction on this but I believe the only piece of statute which makes a requirement for Gardai to produce their ID is Sec 30 OASA. However Garda code (which I won't be going into in any detail at all) makes plenty reference to ID cards and their use. Gardai must carry their ID at all times whether in or out of uniform, whether on or off duty...

I thought there was only one Garda training college? Who is right?

speedfight · 02-09-2010 04:32PM

I have found four pieces of unrepealed legislation requiring production of Garda Id.

Whitewater-AGS · 02-09-2010 04:43PM

speedfight wrote: »

I have found four pieces of unrepealed legislation requiring production of Garda Id.

Well post it up so

shaneybaby · 02-09-2010 04:46PM

speedfight wrote: »

I have found four pieces of unrepealed legislation requiring production of Garda Id.

and they are....

MagicSean · 02-09-2010 06:58PM

speedfight wrote: »

I thought there was only one Garda training college? Who is right?

Both acts require production by non-uniformed gardaí when exercising a specific power. Neither require uniformed Gardaí to produce ID. But I am sure the legislation you will quote will prove us all wrong.

speedfight · 03-09-2010 09:27AM

The requirements are contained in:
1. S30 OASA 1939 as correctly noted by Detective
2. S111 RTA 1961 as correctly noted by K_mac
3.S 96 Health Act 1947
4. Emergency Powers Act 1976.

While number 4 is not currently in force, it is still on the statute books and can be invoked instataneously by ministerial order. Not really one to watch but Gardaí should be aware of it.

By the way, I note that the penalty for failing to comply with a Garda request under number 1 is unique in Irish law. Imprisonment for the duration of 6 kisses.

MagicSean · 03-09-2010 11:31AM

Do either 3 or 4 require a garda in uniform to produce ID? The first two don't. I thought that was the point in discussion.

speedfight · 03-09-2010 11:50AM

k_mac wrote: »

Do either 3 or 4 require a garda in uniform to produce ID? The first two don't. I thought that was the point in discussion.

No they do not. The answer is therefore that there is no legal obligation for a uniformed Garda to produce his Id.

However, there are 3 circumstances more than the one you cited, when a non-uniformed Garda is under such an obligation.

Johnny Utah · 04-09-2010 11:51AM

This branchman didn't provide his name or any form of ID when asked......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmhZEwymTjM

Wonder was he ever disciplined? :pac:

ananas · 05-09-2010 12:52PM

I was once stopped by a "Guard" on a road in the middle of nowhere at 2am. Now I was driving a little yaris with a big L plate on the back, so it was fairly obvious that it was a stereotypical girls car. Unbeknownst to this "guard" my boyfriend was actually driving and when he came to the window you could see the shock on his face. This lad was no more than 20 and wasn't even driving an unmarked car- I think it was a 00 cortina with a mayo reg. Anyways my boyfriend got out of the car and asked to see his Garda ID and he ran as fast as he could back to his car and sped off in the opposite direction.

After that I never assume that just because someone is in Garda clothes that they're a Guard. It was very dodgy that this person pulled over a car that was more than likely a girls car, in the middle of nowhere, at 2am at night. He could have been a rapist or anything. You can never be too careful.

MagicSean · 05-09-2010 12:55PM

ananas wrote: »

I was once stopped by a "Guard" on a road in the middle of nowhere at 2am. Now I was driving a little yaris with a big L plate on the back, so it was fairly obvious that it was a stereotypical girls car. Unbeknownst to this "guard" my boyfriend was actually driving and when he came to the window you could see the shock on his face. This lad was no more than 20 and wasn't even driving an unmarked car- I think it was a 00 cortina with a mayo reg. Anyways my boyfriend got out of the car and asked to see his Garda ID and he ran as fast as he could back to his car and sped off in the opposite direction.

After that I never assume that just because someone is in Garda clothes that they're a Guard. It was very dodgy that this person pulled over a car that was more than likely a girls car, in the middle of nowhere, at 2am at night. He could have been a rapist or anything. You can never be too careful.

Was he in a uniform? Did you report it to the garda station?

detective · 05-09-2010 01:18PM

ananas wrote: »

I was once stopped by a "Guard" on a road in the middle of nowhere at 2am. Now I was driving a little yaris with a big L plate on the back, so it was fairly obvious that it was a stereotypical girls car. Unbeknownst to this "guard" my boyfriend was actually driving and when he came to the window you could see the shock on his face. This lad was no more than 20 and wasn't even driving an unmarked car- I think it was a 00 cortina with a mayo reg. Anyways my boyfriend got out of the car and asked to see his Garda ID and he ran as fast as he could back to his car and sped off in the opposite direction.

How did he pull you over?

FreudianSlippers · 05-09-2010 03:29PM

Johnny Utah wrote: »

This branchman didn't provide his name or any form of ID when asked......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmhZEwymTjM

Wonder was he ever disciplined? :pac:

I doubt he was a Garda.

ananas · 05-09-2010 04:03PM

He drove right up behind us in his car and had a blue light that flashes- you know the ones I'm on about you can buy them in any bargain shop. We reported it to the Guards but nothing came of it. It rightly freaked me out. Before that happened if I was pulled over by a Guard I would never question them.

ananas · 05-09-2010 04:06PM

Just to add he was wearing the high vis Garda jacket and he had the hat on him as well. I don't know where would have gotten it from.

detective · 05-09-2010 09:24PM

ananas wrote: »

Just to add he was wearing the high vis Garda jacket and he had the hat on him as well. I don't know where would have gotten it from.

I'm troubled by this incident. We all should be.

D.McC · 06-09-2010 06:40AM

The two guys in the video should trouble you as well. That is quite clearly a state car.

Now, after popping in and out of this thead for a while, and reading the posts about how a 'plain clothes' guard must display ID when asked. I put it to the AGS members posting here - why did this 'guard' not ID himself when requested

speedfight · 06-09-2010 10:09AM

I think you misunderstand. I am not a member but to clarify for you. There are four instances where a non uniformed garda must produce ID. They have no obligation to do it generally. You cannot compel the production of ID on the street.

However if they are excercising a power under any of the Acts listed then they must produce ID. They were not arresting this cameraman so have no obligation to produce ID to him.

MagicSean · 06-09-2010 10:11AM

D.McC wrote: »

The two guys in the video should trouble you as well. That is quite clearly a state car.

Now, after popping in and out of this thead for a while, and reading the posts about how a 'plain clothes' guard must display ID when asked. I put it to the AGS members posting here - why did this 'guard' not ID himself when requested

He didn't exercise any power which required him to show ID by law. Wether he should be internally disciplined or not is a different matter which could be adressed by GSOC. Although I don't see that he did anything wrong. He is not required to identify himself to any loony with a camera who asks.

If stopped by a guard can you ask them for ID?

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