If stopped by a guard can you ask them for ID?

The Highwayman

Just a question.
What a guard must show me as a form of identification other than the numbers on uniform?
Name? Business card? Warrent card?
Thanks

MagicSean

The Highwayman wrote: »

Just a question.
What a guard must show me as a form of identification other than the numbers on uniform?
Name? Business card? Warrent card?
Thanks

Are you talking about a Garda in plain clothes?

The Highwayman

k_mac wrote: »

Are you talking about a Garda in plain clothes?

both?

Del2005

You can ask to see their Garda ID. Otherwise it could be someone impersonating a Garda.

In saying that I'd have no idea what a real Garda ID looks like, I've only ever seen one properly once when I was drinking with a Garda.

nuac

If stopped by a person wearing a Garda uniform, consider him/her to be a Garda unless you are at a fancy dress event.

Hooch

The Highwayman wrote: »

Just a question.
What a guard must show me as a form of identification other than the numbers on uniform?
Name? Business card? Warrent card?
Thanks

Members in plain clothes must, on request, produce their ID cards (most off duty members will carry their ID with them).

In regards uniform members, you are obliged by law to consider them members of AGS. You can request to see their ID......but there is no obligation on them to show you it.

In regards the ID card its self. You wont get a photo of it anywhere.....but when its produced you'll know it.....

Bosco boy

The Highwayman wrote: »

Just a question.
What a guard must show me as a form of identification other than the numbers on uniform?
Name? Business card? Warrent card?
Thanks

yes, both plainclothes and uniform, however uniform members may consider you a smart arse and that might be the wrong foot to get off on especially if it's a road traffic stop and you are hoping for a caution if you did wrong. I have found only a handful of people who asked for my Id while in uniform and they all had a lot in common and ended up with tickets or in court. Best advice is to be polite and apologise it works far more often than being a smartarse!!

scheister

slightly off topic. I was working at the special olympics doing event services. pretty much my job was standing at entrances checking accredation. Decided for a laugh to ask a on duty uniformed gaurd for his accredation to enter one of the area and he was ape at me.

The Highwayman

Thanks guys

Mr Smithers

Can you ask a uniformed Garda for his name and station?

someday2010

A garda will get in extemely serious trouble if he loses his id. Can you imagine the explaaining he would have to do if he showed it to you and you done a runner with it

Mr Smithers wrote: »

Can you ask a uniformed Garda for his name and station?

His epaulettes will have a letter and number which is assigned according to Division and is unique to each member.

Hooch

Mr Smithers wrote: »

Can you ask a uniformed Garda for his name and station?

As stated his District numbers are on his shoulder. However, he should give you his name (surname), rank and station on request.

cushtac

someday2010 wrote: »

A garda will get in extemely serious trouble if he loses his id. Can you imagine the explaaining he would have to do if he showed it to you and you done a runner with it

A Garda does not get in 'extremely serious' trouble for losing his ID. In your example it wouldn't be lost, it'd be stolen and if you were caught doing a runner with it you'd be the one with the explaining to do.

someday2010

cushtac wrote: »

A Garda does not get in 'extremely serious' trouble for losing his ID. In your example it wouldn't be lost, it'd be stolen and if you were caught doing a runner with it you'd be the one with the explaining to do.

Put it this way he wont be getting a clap on the back. The last thing you would want are lost garda ID's in the possession of undesirables

cushtac

someday2010 wrote: »

Put it this way he wont be getting a clap on the back. The last thing you would want are lost garda ID's in the possession of undesirables

It's not nearly as big an offence as you seem to think it is.

slimjimmc

someday2010 wrote: »

A garda will get in extemely serious trouble if he loses his id. Can you imagine the explaaining he would have to do if he showed it to you and you done a runner with it



His epaulettes will have a letter and number which is assigned according to Division and is unique to each member.

Showing ID does not mean handing it over to you, so unless you grabbed it off him I doubt there'd be any running off with it involved .

CraftWork

The Highwayman wrote: »

Just a question.
What a guard must show me as a form of identification other than the numbers on uniform?
Name? Business card? Warrent card?
Thanks

http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/jun2007/garda_name_number_rank__station..jpg

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/82108

CraftWork

Bosco boy wrote: »

yes, both plainclothes and uniform, however uniform members may consider you a smart arse and that might be the wrong foot to get off on especially if it's a road traffic stop and you are hoping for a caution if you did wrong. I have found only a handful of people who asked for my Id while in uniform and they all had a lot in common and ended up with tickets or in court. Best advice is to be polite and apologise it works far more often than being a smartarse!!

why would you get off on the wrong foot by asking something you are entitled to know?

I have found only a handful of people who asked for my Id while in uniform and they all had a lot in common and ended up with tickets or in court

did you take them to court cos they asked you what they ar entitled to know?

T-Square

If someone in plain clothes pulls you over, you have these choices

1/ Drive to nearest police station
2/ Ask for warrant card/id card
3/ or gas it!

MagicSean

CraftWork wrote: »

http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/jun2007/garda_name_number_rank__station..jpg

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/82108

Indymedia? Why not quote freeman crap too. Even the letter in the link states that it is not in all circumstances you will be shown the ID.

CraftWork

k_mac wrote: »

Indymedia? Why not quote freeman crap too. Even the letter in the link states that it is not in all circumstances you will be shown the ID.

why not indymedia? he quotes the law.I do not know him and am not for or against indymedia Are you afraid someone might find their rights and stand up to bully garda. You are right the letter link does say not in all circumstances but the article makes it plain. Unless you can quote law that contradicts that?

if you ask a garda who stops you their name they have to tell you. simple as

never heard of freeman till now but if anything there stops people being abused by cops i will read it

timmywex

Indymedia is not a source for anything. Only for garda bashing.

They often come out with the statement that a gard cant arrest you without his hat. Best urban ledgend ever.

Love that site for a laugh some days

CraftWork

timmywex wrote: »

Indymedia is not a source for anything. Only for garda bashing.

They often come out with the statement that a gard cant arrest you without his hat. Best urban ledgend ever.

Love that site for a laugh some days

I do not defend indymedia. but the fact is when you are stopped by a garda he has to identify himself if asked..

Love that site for a laugh some days

you try to use making fun of any truth in it to try to hide the truth in it. i do not say it is all true and rarely read it. but the part about the garda having to id himself is true.I am not going to bother with ths any more

Thoie

nuac wrote: »

If stopped by a person wearing a Garda uniform, consider him/her to be a Garda unless you are at a fancy dress event.

Serious question - two strange men approach you at night when you're on your own, or they knock on your door, or they wave your car down. You agree that the uniforms certainly look like Garda uniforms from where you're standing/sitting, but would it really be unreasonable to ask for some ID to be sure? If a guy wearing a Bord Gais, or an ESB uniform knocked on your door when you weren't expecting them would you open the door to them without ID?

pirelli

nice guy always wrote: »

Members in plain clothes must, on request, produce their ID cards (most off duty members will carry their ID with them).

In regards uniform members, you are obliged by law to consider them members of AGS. You can request to see their ID......but there is no obligation on them to show you it.

In regards the ID card its self. You wont get a photo of it anywhere.....but when its produced you'll know it.....

I would say there is an obligation in the right circumstances for uniformed members of AGS to show the subject their ID if requested.

Now scan your ID pic or GTFO.

cushtac

T-Square wrote: »

If someone in plain clothes pulls you over, you have these choices

1/ Drive to nearest police station
2/ Ask for warrant card/id card
3/ or gas it!

Option 2 is the only one that wouldn't get you in trouble, the other two will.

Thoie wrote: »

Serious question - two strange men approach you at night when you're on your own, or they knock on your door, or they wave your car down. You agree that the uniforms certainly look like Garda uniforms from where you're standing/sitting, but would it really be unreasonable to ask for some ID to be sure? If a guy wearing a Bord Gais, or an ESB uniform knocked on your door when you weren't expecting them would you open the door to them without ID?

There's no such thing as an ESB or Bord Gáis uniform, both companies have id cards but that's it. If you refuse to stop for Gardaí in uniform you will have a problem. If Gardaí in uniform call to the door with a warrant and you fail to let them in you can expect to have the door put in by them.

pirelli wrote: »

I would say there is an obligation in the right circumstances for uniformed members of AGS to show the subject their ID if requested.

Now scan your ID pic or GTFO.

What are the right circumstances and where are you getting this obligation from?

r3nu4l

I'm not being funny and I'm going to try and find a link but there has been at least one case in Ireland where an unmarked 'Garda' car with blue strobes have pulled over truck drivers and a 'uniformed' Garda then produced a weapon and the truck contents stolen (I think it may have been an Intel truck).

The majority of the public would not be able to identify slight flaws in the 'Garda' uniform that a serving or former AGS member would.

Why is a Garda not obliged to show ID?* Wouldn't that make at least some sense.



*I recognise too that most members of the public also wouldn't recognise a Garda ID but that's no reason not to make it obligatory for a Garda to show ID when asked (imo). A uniform does not guarantee anything.

maggy_thatcher

cushtac wrote: »

Option 2 is the only one that wouldn't get you in trouble, the other two will.

Wouldn't it depend on the manner in which the person in plain clothes pulls you over? If they're sitting in one of those partially marked cars (i.e. the 'hidden' blue lights come on), and signal me to stop, then I would...I'd assume that their car was the uniform...but if some random car started flashing and beeping at me to pull over, I'm pretty sure I'd pick one of the other two options -- as how would I know that it's not a hijacker -- perhaps dialing 112 on the hands-free and see if I can find out what the story is while en-route to a station.

I know that means all a hijacker has to do is stick some blue lights on their car and be fine, but fortunately we don't live in LA, so these things are pretty rare!

Bosco boy

CraftWork wrote: »

why would you get off on the wrong foot by asking something you are entitled to know? did you take them to court cos they asked you what they ar entitled to know?

it depends on the context in which its asked, if it was a female driver late at night that I stopped I would have no issues at all and might even produce it without having being asked by her. If it's a drunken yob who's refusing to leave an area where he has been causing trouble I would also show it to him/her and then I would be as offical with them as they were with me and show zero tolerance in relation to the offence they are committing.

Thoie

cushtac wrote: »

If you refuse to stop for Gardaí in uniform you will have a problem. If Gardaí in uniform call to the door with a warrant and you fail to let them in you can expect to have the door put in by them.

Bosco boy wrote: »

it depends on the context in which its asked, if it was a female driver late at night that I stopped I would have no issues at all and might even produce it without having being asked by her.

Thanks Bosco boy. There seems to be an assumption on this thread that if the gardaí approach you, you've done something wrong. In cushtac's example above, it's possible that the gardaí are calling to your door to ask if you've seen anything strange, or to tell you that they've found your wallet, or a variety of other innocuous reasons. I can't imagine that they'll kick in my door just to return my wallet to me.

If I've just robbed a bank and am tackled to the ground by a bunch of people in garda uniforms, I doubt I'm going to be too worried about their identity. If I'm home alone in a remote location after dark, I would hope the gardaí would set me at ease by identifying themselves.

CraftWork

Bosco boy wrote: »

it depends on the context in which its asked, if it was a female driver late at night that I stopped I would have no issues at all and might even produce it without having being asked by her. If it's a drunken yob who's refusing to leave an area where he has been causing trouble I would also show it to him/her and then I would be as offical with them as they were with me and show zero tolerance in relation to the offence they are committing.

fair play to you there

Bosco boy

CraftWork wrote: »

fair play to you there

I forgot, that also applies to abnoxious protestors as well!:D

CraftWork

Bosco boy wrote: »

I forgot, that also applies to abnoxious protestors as well!:D

what do you mean by this?

Butch Cassidy

The Highwayman wrote: »

Just a question.
What a guard must show me as a form of identification other than the numbers on uniform?
Name? Business card? Warrent card?
Thanks

They carry and ID card that's about the size of a credit card.

r3nu4l wrote: »

I'm not being funny and I'm going to try and find a link but there has been at least one case in Ireland where an unmarked 'Garda' car with blue strobes have pulled over truck drivers and a 'uniformed' Garda then produced a weapon and the truck contents stolen (I think it may have been an Intel truck).

The majority of the public would not be able to identify slight flaws in the 'Garda' uniform that a serving or former AGS member would.

Why is a Garda not obliged to show ID?* Wouldn't that make at least some sense.



*I recognise too that most members of the public also wouldn't recognise a Garda ID but that's no reason not to make it obligatory for a Garda to show ID when asked (imo). A uniform does not guarantee anything.

I've encountered the flashing blue lights car driving behind you down a rural road late at night in the dark. Upon ringing the local Garda station to ask if they'd a car in the area they said no they didn't.

pirelli

cushtac wrote: »

What are the right circumstances and where are you getting this obligation from?

http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/...__station..jpg

Section 2.

Obligation: In response to an earlier post from another poster.


Keep up the good work.

MagicSean

CraftWork wrote: »

why not indymedia? he quotes the law.I do not know him and am not for or against indymedia Are you afraid someone might find their rights and stand up to bully garda. You are right the letter link does say not in all circumstances but the article makes it plain. Unless you can quote law that contradicts that?

if you ask a garda who stops you their name they have to tell you. simple as

never heard of freeman till now but if anything there stops people being abused by cops i will read it

He hasn't quoted any law that obliges production of ID. He has quoted Garda practice which is mentioned in the letter. The only law that obliges gardaí to produce ID on demand that I am aware of is the Road Traffic Act and that is only for plain clothes gardaí when they stop a vehicle. The rest of the article is useless and will only result in someone who follows it ending up before the courts.

Thoie wrote: »

Serious question - two strange men approach you at night when you're on your own, or they knock on your door, or they wave your car down. You agree that the uniforms certainly look like Garda uniforms from where you're standing/sitting, but would it really be unreasonable to ask for some ID to be sure? If a guy wearing a Bord Gais, or an ESB uniform knocked on your door when you weren't expecting them would you open the door to them without ID?

If they can replicate a uniform to fool you what makes you think you can authenticate an id you know nothing about?

Butch Cassidy

nice guy always wrote: »

Members in plain clothes must, on request, produce their ID cards (most off duty members will carry their ID with them).

In regards uniform members, you are obliged by law to consider them members of AGS. You can request to see their ID......but there is no obligation on them to show you it.

In regards the ID card its self. You wont get a photo of it anywhere.....but when its produced you'll know it.....

What of instances where uniformed members of AGS have removed or hidden their ID numbers on their shoulder and/or removed part of their uniform so that they're only wearing the trousers, blue shirt and tie and wielding a truncheon? Are they considering "uniformed" or plain clothes for they have no Garda identification showing.

Thoie

k_mac wrote: »

If they can replicate a uniform to fool you what makes you think you can authenticate an id you know nothing about?

Because you can then ring their station before letting them in and say "Is k_mac 7'10 with arms like hams and baby blue eyes?" Then if the station has never heard of k_mac, or he doesn't fit that description, you're already on the phone to the gardaí, and if they say that's him, you can thank the station for their time, and then open the door to k_mac and thank him for waiting.

Hooch

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

What of instances where uniformed members of AGS have removed or hidden their ID numbers on their shoulder and/or removed part of their uniform so that they're only wearing the trousers, blue shirt and tie and wielding a truncheon? Are they considering "uniformed" or plain clothes for they have no Garda identification showing.

Show me where it was proven that Gardaí removed their numbers??? The member you are referring to had CCTV and civilian witness who confirmed he was on meal break in a restaurant and left without his florescent jacket which had his numbers on. When I hear a call for urgent assistance I dont think "do I have my numbers on...."

Keeping in mind also that during the mayday riots the Gardaí with no numbers were country Gardaí who had no numbers.......

okioffice84

nice guy always wrote: »

Keeping in mind also that during the mayday riots the Gardaí with no numbers were country Gardaí who had no numbers.......

I seem to recall they were from Pearse St.

okioffice84

k_mac wrote: »

If they can replicate a uniform to fool you what makes you think you can authenticate an id you know nothing about?

This is a genuine issue. Around 5 years ago there was a spate of robberies of business premises in Dublin carried out by people in fake Garda uniforms. I would have no problem in spotting a suspect Garda ID.

The Highwayman

nice guy always wrote: »

Show me where it was proven that Gardaí removed their numbers??? The member you are referring to had CCTV and civilian witness who confirmed he was on meal break in a restaurant and left without his florescent jacket which had his numbers on. When I hear a call for urgent assistance I dont think "do I have my numbers on...."

Keeping in mind also that during the mayday riots the Gardaí with no numbers were country Gardaí who had no numbers.......

The 3 who were charged were
Gardai Ronan Judge and Thomas Victory of Store Street Station, and Garda Paul Daly from Pearse Street Station

Although the fans favorite Garda Donal Corcoran, he of the robocop and gay icon status(you know the 6'4 guard with NO numbers on his shirt just loving cracking a few crusties heads) was from Mounjoy Garda Station. Which I believe is not a country station.

'When I hear a call for urgent assistance I dont think "do I have my numbers on....'

maybe you should...

D.McC

I don’t think AGS members should be any different from any other public or civil servant. As a pervious poster said, ‘you’d ask the gas man, ESB meter reader, council worker to ID themselves, so why should the Gardaí be any different.

In many European and Middle Eastern countries, police officers, even in uniform would routinely display their credentials.

Bosco boy

The Highwayman wrote: »

The 3 who were charged were
Gardai Ronan Judge and Thomas Victory of Store Street Station, and Garda Paul Daly from Pearse Street Station

Although the fans favorite Garda Donal Corcoran, he of the robocop and gay icon status(you know the 6'4 guard with NO numbers on his shirt just loving cracking a few crusties heads) was from Mounjoy Garda Station. Which I believe is not a country station.

'When I hear a call for urgent assistance I dont think "do I have my numbers on....'

maybe you should...

You'll get just as hard a lash down the country if you deserve it, no apoligies, see you soon!!!!

murrayp4

Bosco boy wrote: »

You'll get just as hard a lash down the country if you deserve it, no apoligies, see you soon!!!!

If you're a member of AGS I'd be a little bit more careful about what you post on a public forum like this.

The Highwayman

Bosco boy wrote: »

You'll get just as hard a lash down the country if you deserve it, no apoligies, see you soon!!!!

Is that a threat?

Bosco boy

The Highwayman wrote: »

Is that a threat?

absolutely not, poor attempt at humour, no offence meant

cushtac

D.McC wrote: »

I don’t think AGS members should be any different from any other public or civil servant. As a pervious poster said, ‘you’d ask the gas man, ESB meter reader, council worker to ID themselves, so why should the Gardaí be any different.

They're not, it's already been said that plain clothes Gardaí must identify themselves upon request. The gas man, ESB meter reader or council worker don't have uniforms, so are not comparable to uniformed Gardaí.

r3nu4l

cushtac wrote: »

They're not, it's already been said that plain clothes Gardaí must identify themselves upon request. The gas man, ESB meter reader or council worker don't have uniforms, so are not comparable to uniformed Gardaí.

And* as I pointed out but was ignored, we have had cases in the past where 'uniformed Gardaí' turned out not to be Gardaí at all. So again, why should a 'Garda' calling to your door not be obliged to show ID when requested?

I'll point out again that I understand that most members of the public wouldn't know a real Garda ID if they saw one but that's no reason why a requirement shouldn't be there.




*starting a sentence with 'And'. Tsk, there should be a law against it

murrayp4

murrayp4 wrote: »

If you're a member of AGS I'd be a little bit more careful about what you post on a public forum like this.

The Highwayman wrote: »

Is that a threat?

In all fairness, it's an internet forum. If ye have such a huge issue with Gardai f off down to your local Garda station and annoy them in real life. Is that a threat, ffs :rolleyes:

MagicSean

r3nu4l wrote: »

And* as I pointed out but was ignored, we have had cases in the past where 'uniformed Gardaí' turned out not to be Gardaí at all. So again, why should a 'Garda' calling to your door not be obliged to show ID when requested?

I'll point out again that I understand that most members of the public wouldn't know a real Garda ID if they saw one but that's no reason why a requirement shouldn't be there.




*starting a sentence with 'And'. Tsk, there should be a law against it

Its a criminal offence to dress up like a garda or posess items of uniform. There is no offence to dress up like a gasman. If uniformed Gardaí had to show ID to everyone they spoke to what would be the point in wearing the uniform. A lot of Gardaí don't take their badge out on patrol because it's all too easy to lose something from your pocket when your at an incident.