MSISS???

stekill · 03-09-2010 12:02AM #1

hey,
i will studying MSISS in October. Is it as hard as it is made out to be? im a little nervous going into the course and i am afraid i will not be able to cope. i love economics,business and computers,but i am not so good with statistics and probability. can any student give me a low down of the course and its content!

Groinshot · 03-09-2010 12:11AM

Engineers last year shared 3 modules with MSISS, maths 1 and 2, and Computers. Maths one was ALL Calculus, differentiation and integration, but you'll manage that no problem if you're okay with it, it's only a slight build on leaving cert maths. maths 2 is continuing calculus to a point, and then linear algebra, so matrices I think was all we did there, can't REALLY remember. computers was progamming, C++, and if you're good with computers you'll whizz hrough the year, if you're not, you'll struggle. Get the book, Go to the lectures, you'll know within a week or two how you'll fare out at the end of the year. That's all I know about it, sorry

stekill · 03-09-2010 12:16AM

an aside question....many girls in the class?

Groinshot · 03-09-2010 12:43AM

In engineering- No, not many, but not sure about MSISS, Think there was a good few, maybe 10 or 12 out of the 26 that did it.

sternn · 03-09-2010 10:30PM

Im in 4th year msiss...and it a bit tough, not too bad though. The statistics classes are probably the hardest part. The workload is not huge in the first year or two. You will have approx 20 hours a week. Not to scare you though...out of 42 of the 1st years in MSISS this year...only 8 passed. If you have any other questions, just ask!

Dante · 03-09-2010 11:00PM

Well, I'm fairly sure that MSISS had the highest JF failure rate this year in the college, something like 80%? In saying that, if you put in a bit of work at home you'll be fine...that's where most fell down. I shared 4 modules with MSISS last year, Maths, Statistics, Intro to Organisation and Management and Intro to Programming.

Maths is fairly straight forward, its split into two parts, the first is with Hugh Gibbons which, tbh is a load of waffle all about boolean algebra and logic...most people ended up skipping it because he spends most his time talking shíte. You are marked on two assignments which I'm nearly positive he doesn't correct. The second term is with Murial Huggard, this is straight forward enough, you mainly do matrices and integration - pretty much leaving cert honours stuff. She gives two in-class tests each worth 5% of your final grade. I did ordinary maths since junior cert and found it fine just to put it in perspective.

Statistics is done first term with Mary Sharpe. Throughout the term, a majority of people didn't know what she was talking about during lectures because she explained things way to fast and as a result, ended up skipping most the lectures. Once you sit down and study it yourself though, its quite easy. 20% of your grade is marked on lab work which is quite stupid considering there were no helpers who knew anything about statistics during the labs and the labs themselves had little relevance to the final exam.

Introduction to programming is the hardest of the four, mainly because its all completely new (assuming you have never programmed before). 69 out of 100 people failed the module (incluing myself) AFAIK, mainly because we let it get over our heads and put no work in after lectures. I would definitely advise you to put in a fair bit of work at home with java because its very manageable, all it needs is work and practice. In programming, you have a weekly tutorial where you do your coursework worth 20% and a weekly lab where you basically practice what you should have learned the previous week. Again, I'd advise you to put in a bit of effort in labs because it saves a lot of effort later on in the year and the postgrades are actually very helpful.

The last module I shared was Organisation and Management, which again is pretty straight forward. You do two 2500 word assignments - one each term - which both count towards your final grade, along with 10% you get for attending the weekly seminars. The rest is marked on a final exam which again isn't too difficult and is fairly predictable.
Basically, for all these modules, if you put in a bit of work every week you'll do grand, especially with java and stats. This is all from my point of view, some people may have found it a lot easier, but I'm a lazy wanker so...
gl with it anyways, hoped this helped.

EDIT: And yes, there are loads of birds in the course. At a complete guess, I'd say it was close to 50:50 in first year last year, although I'm open to correction on that.

sternn · 04-09-2010 12:05AM

DaaaaaaaaaaN wrote: »

EDIT: And yes, there are loads of birds in the course. At a complete guess, I'd say it was close to 50:50 in first year last year, although I'm open to correction on that.

Yes its about 50:50 id say through all years.

stekill · 04-09-2010 11:29AM

thanks very much guys...im a little nervous with the high failure rates...i can always drop to BESS???

C.D. · 04-09-2010 01:07PM

I did Engineering with Management which shares between 30-50% of classes with MSISS (maths, stats, some programming classes and management classes) and 40-80% of classes with the BAI (general engineering degree).

Back in my day, the MSISS maths courses were just the BAI maths classes.

The MSISS subjects (the stats, programming and management) were taken by the Statistics department and were considered to be much easier than our engineering subjects and we got by with much less work.

That said, a lot of people go into the programming classes (both MSISS and BAI) with an attitude of "I'm not computer person/I hate computers", don't do the required work and really struggle with it. Just make sure you get the basics right (If statements etc.), a solid foundation will stand to you.

I would say, if you are good at maths (LC Honours maths etc), the MSISS maths and statistics courses will be fine, the standard in the MSISS only classes is not that high. The same for programming. If you are a more business orientated type, you might find it more challenging.

OP I don't know who is making it out to be very hard, my experience was that it was quite easy compared to the other courses down the science/engineering end of college. All my friends in MSISS went out 2/3 nights a week all year for 4 years and nearly half the class finished their finals with 1:1's, with only one or two people getting less than 2:1's.

stekill · 04-09-2010 10:19PM

right....i hope it doesnt come down to this,but if needs be,can you change to a different course within trinity assuming u meet the previous CAO requirements?

Groinshot · 04-09-2010 10:54PM

stekill wrote: »

right....i hope it doesnt come down to this,but if needs be,can you change to a different course within trinity assuming u meet the previous CAO requirements?

Yes.

Groinshot · 04-09-2010 10:55PM

stekill wrote: »

right....i hope it doesnt come down to this,but if needs be,can you change to a different course within trinity assuming u meet the previous CAO requirements?

Yes. There's loads of threads with taht on here, can't think of any offhand, but if you meet the points, transfer within a set time, and there's space, it's fine. If not, there's always next year

You seem to be thinking of that already though, Don't be put off by what people say about it. Every course is tough...

Ruined_Silver · 04-09-2010 11:06PM

Hey, I just finished first year Msiss. So I thought I'd give my two cents on it.

I want to start by saying the course is ridiculously hard to pass, 86% failed this year.

Nearly everyone failed java (computer programming), and engineering maths.
Myself included.

There's a LOAD of maths in the course, so if you don't like, (and by like,
I mean love) maths/statistics, you're probably gonna struggle to pass at the end of the year.

The ratio of girls to lads was about 50:50.

Business is easy enough to pass.
Same with Economics, as long as you go to the lectures in both, the tutorials, you hand up assignments, study for mid term economics test, etc.

Software apps is easy aswell (as long as you go to every lab and actually hand in stuff).

Management Science was pretty easy.. we had decent lecturers (Arthur Hughes was great). [It's about solving business problems with maths & probability and stuff].

Stats was ****ing horrible! Terrible lecturer (Mary Sharp), labs were even worse, the teaching assistants didn't know anything about statistics, they were computer science post grads or something.

Maths was okay for the first term, but for the second term we had three 9O'clock lectures every week (which may not sound bad, after secondary school, but in college it's a struggle to wake up for). As a result, I personally only went to about 4 lectures over the entire second term. And the same was true for the majority of the class. Maths was all about calculus, matrices, and stuff.

Programming... where to start! It sounds cool enough when your starting off, the lectures/labs are easy, but then out of no where everything just steps up a gear, which left pretty much everyone in Msiss completely lost. So we basically all failed (86%!!! [we got an A in failing! ha]).

Yeah, so.. That's all I've got to say really.

If your not really into Maths/probability/statistics/calculus/computer languages then MSISS is quite possible the wrong course for you.

There is Business and Economics lectures once a week, but if your really into business and Ec, and you hate maths, etc. Then you should probably see if you can transfer into BESS or something after a week or two of trying it out.

The people in the course are what make it bearable, every year forms a pretty close knit group, you'll make some really good friends and all that. Great craic on nights out, etc.

I probably sound pretty pessimistic about the whole thing, but I would've liked for someone to tell me all this before I started.

So I guess me and the rest of the senior freshmen class will see all you first-y's during Fresher's Week! ..If any of us pass our repeats that is..

Ruined_Silver · 04-09-2010 11:08PM

Groinshot wrote: »

Every course is tough...

Especially Msiss

Dante · 05-09-2010 12:45AM

Ruined_Silver wrote: »

Especially Msiss

I take it you'll be joining me on Tuesday at 9.30???

S. Goodspeed · 05-09-2010 12:59AM

Points for MSISS got up as high as 545 back in the day and the course was tailored accordingly. Presuming they haven't dumbed it down since to match the lower entry points then it's only natural that the majority will struggle. That being said anyone with a B in leving certain maths should be strong enough to get through the 4 years. It's important to stay on top of stats in first year because it's the foundation of a lot that follows. If you do that you'll be fine.

stekill · 05-09-2010 10:58AM

im pretty much pooing myself right now..do you have to do every single module or can you pick and choose areas where you are strongest!

sternn · 05-09-2010 11:14AM

Don't be worrying too much! With a little bit of work, you should be fine. The course has stayed at the same standard, they have not dumbed it down. They increased the numbers on the course from 24 to 40 just last year. As a result, the points dropped (as demand for the course never increased) which resulted in people with below 400 points getting on the course.

I am not saying if you have below 400 points its going to be hard, but you may just need to work a bit harder than people with 500+ to grasp an understanding of some of the material.

In fairness though, this year they did Java I believe, and to a very high standard. When I did 1st year (3 years ago), we did C++ with the engineers. That was not bad at all. They may change the language you will be studying this year.

One thing which really helps to get you through the year is the society....the management science society. There are many social events organised throughout the year. Being part of MSISS, I believe it is one of the most sociable societies out there.

Also, all the modules are set for you. The only thing you can choose in 1st / 2nd year is an extra language module (most of which happen in the evening time). I tried to do spanish...but 7-9 on a monday evening was just not the best, so I left it after a couple of months. In 3rd and 4th year you get to choose one module, in addition to your 6 or 7 modules you do. The choices are not great for this though!

stekill · 05-09-2010 02:34PM

right i got 510 with a B2 in maths,we'll see,still very paranoid

Groinshot · 05-09-2010 03:42PM

S. Goodspeed wrote: »

Points for MSISS got up as high as 545 back in the day and the course was tailored accordingly.

So because the course was in demand, they made it harder?
BS

stekill wrote: »

right i got 510 with a B2 in maths,we'll see,still very paranoid

The engineering maths isn't hard if you're bothered at all. I missed about one of those lectures a week and breezed the exam. there's lunchtime tutorials once a week, and during the summer like. the C++ programming is easy enough, but java is tough anyway... can't talk for everythign else.
Give it a go, see how you get on is all I'd say.

And as for all courses are tough, especially MSISS?

I know that more people failed engineering than failed msiss this year... To be honest, I never saw any of you guys in our maths lectures, (or the programming ones if I bothered showing up) so that wouldn't have helped.
if you keep on top of things OP, it'll be fine, like everything really. Don't be afraid to ask for help if you need it!

Mountain_Surfer · 05-09-2010 04:04PM

Groinshot wrote: »

So because the course was in demand, they made it harder?
BS

No, the course has always been hard. The difficulty of a course doenst really determine the amount of points required to be accepted into that course. What does determine the points is supply of places and the demand for those places.

The reason that MSISS is/was so low this and last year is because Computer Science is not filling it's quota (because they are part of the same school, SCSS - School of Computer Science and Statistics, the amount of students on one course affects the amount of students on the other). Demand and Supply.

Back in the IT boom MSISS points were really high (as high as 550, as far as I can remember) and they were only accepting the best of the best students. The reason for this, demand for the course was huge. As a result of the points being high, one would assume the level of intelligence was also high, the standard of the course (subject difficulty) was also high. When demand started to fall, as sternn said earlier, the subject difficulty never really came down.

Kind of getting bored and watching the hurling so that brings this post to a close

C.D. · 05-09-2010 10:22PM

Groinshot wrote: »

The engineering maths isn't hard if you're bothered at all. I missed about one of those lectures a week and breezed the exam. there's lunchtime tutorials once a week, and during the summer like. the C++ programming is easy enough, but java is tough anyway... can't talk for everythign else.
Give it a go, see how you get on is all I'd say.

And as for all courses are tough, especially MSISS?

I know that more people failed engineering than failed msiss this year... To be honest, I never saw any of you guys in our maths lectures, (or the programming ones if I bothered showing up) so that wouldn't have helped.
if you keep on top of things OP, it'll be fine, like everything really. Don't be afraid to ask for help if you need it!

I'm with Groinshot on this one, I don't think MSISS is a hard course. I think a lot of Business orientated people don't realise the maths involved and go in unpreapred. I think the MSISS class is just not as committed in the early years as other classes. I remember going to MSISS lectures where less than 15% of the MSISS class would turn on a regular basis- they were always and I mean always skipping lectures as they went out so often.

OP, if you are OK at maths and put work in it is fine. The Engineering maths is fairly handy and all the Engineers do well (I went to less than 5 lectures a term and still got a first in both maths subjects in 2nd year). There are too few good statistics lecturers, but Mary Sharp teaches straight from the notes/course material so if you work through that you will be fine.

C.D. · 05-09-2010 10:25PM

OP, I should also say it has quite possibly the highest employment rate of any course in college. It has consistently been over 90% even during these tough times. Everyone I can think of who graduated in the last 3 or so years from MSISS is in gainful employment, compared to ~25% for the scientists, engineers etc. and <15% for the Arts grads I know.

Groinshot · 06-09-2010 02:11AM

Mountain_Surfer wrote: »

No, the course has always been hard. The difficulty of a course doenst really determine the amount of points required to be accepted into that course. What does determine the points is supply of places and the demand for those places.

I know that, I probably should have said BULL**** instead of BS after my first line, I was tlaking about the gob****e above me posting.

trolol · 06-09-2010 07:45PM

I am going to summarise the MSISS mentality by placing these two lines beside each other.

Ruined_Silver wrote: »

I want to start by saying the course is ridiculously hard to pass, 86% failed this year.

Ruined_Silver wrote: »

Maths was okay for the first term, but for the second term we had three 9O'clock lectures every week (which may not sound bad, after secondary school, but in college it's a struggle to wake up for). As a result, I personally only went to about 4 lectures over the entire second term. And the same was true for the majority of the class.

dpmurray · 06-09-2010 08:01PM

I graduated from MSISS a few years ago and just wanted to add to this post.

When i started the course the points were about 540 consistently for about 3 years. Before that the points had steadily increased from low 400s. The course always was, and judging by the comments, still is a pretty demanding course. You to need a good grounding in math, but you still need to put the work in each year or, as people are finding out, you will fail the year. Just to point out a lot of technical courses (tech engineering ) and surprisingly high failure rates.

Just because the points are now lower than previous years doesn't mean the college is going to reduce the standard of the course, so the fail rate is increasing. You need to do your research on any course before you apply. That said if you do your research MSISS is a good course - albeit a bit too broad on the business end.

On the comments about the failure rate in programming - most (normal) people find programming in college difficult to get the hang of initially - the result being most give up on it, do not work and fail the subject. If you work at it - like anything else - from the start and make the effort I'd be very surprised if you fail it come the end of the year.

As another poster said, the first 2 years are light on weekly hours - but unless you want to fail - you're gonna have to put some work in to pass. I'm not saying to hit the library every day - just keep on top of course work.

The final 2 years were, while i was there, pretty tough with a lot of project work - especially in groups. You'll also have a big final year project in your 4th year.

So, as a person who's been through it, the course is well worth the work and would give you decent job prospects once you finish.

Hope this is of some help.

spoonbadger · 06-09-2010 08:09PM

MSISS first year is not a very difficult course. Simply turning up to most lectures on a consistant basis and staring forward vacantly is more than enough to pass first year.

n fairness though, this year they did Java I believe, and to a very high standard.

Maths was okay for the first term, but for the second term we had three 9O'clock lectures every week (which may not sound bad, after secondary school, but in college it's a struggle to wake up for). As a result, I personally only went to about 4 lectures over the entire second term. And the same was true for the majority of the class. Maths was all about calculus, matrices, and stuff.

Programming... where to start! It sounds cool enough when your starting off, the lectures/labs are easy, but then out of no where everything just steps up a gear, which left pretty much everyone in Msiss completely lost. So we basically all failed (86%!!! [we got an A in failing! ha]).

The programming course in first year is pretty piss easy. It's completely entry level java, the lecturer will spend 2 full weeks just explaining pre-school level concepts to you, through the use of colourful teaching aids and metaphors with cars and toys. I guessing the "second gear" was when they started teaching you programming. If you cant pass this module, you should reconsider 3rd level education.

Another course takes this same module, and from the same starting point as MSISS. In that course, 90% of the course passed. If you go in with some silly idea that "oh! programming is hard! gonna fail, why try" then yes.... You'll fail.

Maths is the same. The first semester is new, the second semester is pass level integration and some extended matrices. 9 o clock lectures. How unfortunate. Go to lectures, at least occasionally, and it's not difficult.

stekill · 06-09-2010 08:20PM

cheers fellas, seems like turning up and working hard is the key..thats never been a problem with me so i hope all turns out well.:)

C.D. · 06-09-2010 09:55PM

trolol wrote: »

I am going to summarise the MSISS mentality by placing these two lines beside each other.

Sums up my experience very well, bearing in mind I took 60-70 ECTS credits of courses with MSISS over the course of my degree (that's about 25% per year on average). OP, just don't be sucked into the MSISS culture of non attendance, doing no work and then complaining it is too hard when you fail. Put the work in and from the sound of it, you'll excel.

sternn · 07-09-2010 12:13AM

C.D. wrote: »

...... and from the sound of it, you'll excel.

I like it, in typical MSISS fashion!

DevL · 07-09-2010 12:51AM

I was an MSISS fresher in 2006, finished final year MSISS in May of this year and am due to graduate in November. I think dpmurray summed up the course experience quite well but I would like to add that the OP should not be discouraged by any negative comments on this thread. There were 24 in my class in JF and 20 are set to graduate this November (83%) which is pretty good.

I didn't think the first two years were light on weekly hours, in JF and SF I had around 25-35 scheduled weekly hours. JS and SS had far less lecture hours but more hours overall as more work was required in project work (group and solo). Some lectures are more useful than others but I don't think poor lecture attendance is an MSISS mentality. Over the last 4 years I shared courses with Engineering, BESS and MEMS and MSISS non-attendance was nothing exceptional compared to other course's lectures e.g. in an engineering maths class of 150+, attendance of around 20 people in the morning was pretty regular.

sternn wrote:

I like it, in typical MSISS fashion!

Dave, for shame

MSISS???

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