Doctor removes the wrong kidney from kid

sdanseo · 03-09-2010 11:31AM #1

Yet another fúckup in our health system. I know you can be having a bad day but a bit of a monumental mistake between these two lads here, whoevers to blame:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0903/kidney.html

The surgeon who removed the wrong kidney from an eight-year-old boy has told a Medical Council inquiry that he was not familiar with the patient.
Mr Sri Paran said that on the day of the operation in Our Lady's Children's Hospital in Crumlin, he had been doing minor procedures.
He was then asked to perform surgery on a young boy, and the notes made by the consultant said the procedure was a kidney removal on the left side.
Mr Paran, who is from Sri Lanka and who qualified in medicine from University College Galway, was giving evidence on the final day of the inquiry.
Mr Paran was 'taken aback' to be asked by the consultant to perform the major surgery with less than five minutes' notice.
But he said as a junior doctor, he could not say no to Prof Martin Corbally, who is the senior consultant surgeon in Crumlin.

BTW folks, not really funny when its kids. Keep the sick jokes to yourselves.

mikom · 03-09-2010 11:33AM

sdonn wrote: »

BTW folks, not really funny when its kids. Keep the sick jokes to yourselves.

Thanks Daddy.

--Kaiser-- · 03-09-2010 11:33AM

Solution, remove the consultants kidney and give it to the kid, he obviously doesn't take his job seriously enough

Saadyst · 03-09-2010 11:38AM

Wonder why they refer to him as "Mr. Paran" and not "Dr. Paran"

sdanseo · 03-09-2010 11:39AM

Saadyst wrote: »

Wonder why they refer to him as "Mr. Paran" and not "Dr. Paran"

That's the norm with surgeons, they go by Mr/Mrs and not Dr.

Liam Byrne · 03-09-2010 11:39AM

the notes made by the consultant said the procedure was a kidney removal on the left side.

The age-old question comes to mind : "Your left or my left ?"

BostonB · 03-09-2010 11:43AM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Solution, remove the consultants kidney and give it to the kid, he obviously doesn't take his job seriously enough

+1

Theres no excuse for this. Don't operate with 5 mins notice on someone you don't know.

starbelgrade · 03-09-2010 11:46AM

The Doctor took out the wrong kidney? That's just taking the piss.

UpCork · 03-09-2010 11:47AM

I'm surprised that they didn't mark the site where the operation is to take place? I thought this would be normaly procedure.
I have watched medical type programmes on television and anytime someone had to have an operation the surgeon marked the site with a marker pen.

What an awful thing for the family to go through

who what when · 03-09-2010 11:48AM

Going to play devils advocate on this one because i kinda feel sorry for the surgeon involved.

I mean if i f*ck up in work its just a pain in the arse that has to be sorted out but if these guys make even one mistake then its more than likely very serious! To err is human after all!

sdanseo · 03-09-2010 11:52AM

I reckon the blame has to lie with the guy in charge...if the surgeon is to be believed, he pressured him into complex surgery with little or no preparation. Hardly very professional.

CountingCrows · 03-09-2010 11:54AM

sdonn wrote: »

Keep the sick jokes to yourselves.

How did Helen Keller parents punish her?
They glued door knobs to the wall

_feedback_ · 03-09-2010 11:56AM

I've been reading a bit about this. Some of the pros are saying that it's not standard practise to mark kidneys pre op. A lot are marked, but not kidneys.

EDIT: here's some of what's marked / not marked. You can see clearly, no kidneys. link

Sticky_Fingers · 03-09-2010 11:56AM

who what when wrote: »

Going to play devils advocate on this one because i kinda feel sorry for the surgeon involved.

I mean if i f*ck up in work its just a pain in the arse that has to be sorted out but if these guys make even one mistake then its more than likely very serious! To err is human after all!

I agree the surgeon who carried out the procedure is gonna get crucified over this but he's just a junior doctor who had 5 minutes to prepare for a major operation just because the consultant wasn't able to do the procedure himself. The whole culture of deference to consultants and the damage it can cause has reared its ugly head once again and I doubt this case will have any impact on that.

Jelly2 · 03-09-2010 12:04PM

It is also the case that the consultant said in court, according to yesterday's Indo, that he wrote 'left' in his notes after discussions with the parents about the operation, but that he should have written right. So he wrote it wrongly and, according to the surgeon, he told him wrongly too. Seems hard to blame the surgeon really.

bonerm · 03-09-2010 12:05PM

Mr Paran was 'taken aback'

I thought he was taken a kidney?

Callan57 · 03-09-2010 12:06PM

sdonn wrote: »

I reckon the blame has to lie with the guy in charge...if the surgeon is to be believed, he pressured him into complex surgery with little or no preparation. Hardly very professional.

I find this the most disturbing issue ... we pay these guys (and they are mostly guys) big bucks for their skill & professionalism and what do we get a whine & the good old 'he told me to do it' line. You wouldn't accept this from a 4 year old. He is a paediatrics surgeon for God's sake!
Just another thing to worry about if you or anyone belonging to you is in hospital.

landsleaving · 03-09-2010 12:07PM

Consultant should be sacked really, for being highly unprofessional and lazy.

So should the surgeon though, I mean saying 'I couldn't say no' might be ok if you arent too sure how to work the till in a shop, but when someone asks you to take someones kidney out, and you aren't sure which one, have the balls to say you don't know what to do.

Death by kidney stoning!

Donkey Oaty · 03-09-2010 12:13PM

bonerm wrote: »

I thought he was taken a kidney?

That's offal.

03-09-2010 12:17PM

At least they got the right kid - would be much worse to go in for an ingrown toe nail and to come out minus a kidney.

prinz · 03-09-2010 12:18PM

landsleaving wrote: »

So should the surgeon though, I mean saying 'I couldn't say no' might be ok if you arent too sure how to work the till in a shop, but when someone asks you to take someones kidney out, and you aren't sure which one, have the balls to say you don't know what to do.

The surgeon did know. He took out the kidney he was instructed to take out. Not his fault. As far as he was concerned he removed the correct kidney. Refusing the consultant is another issue.

Corbally screwed up. He shouldn't have put the surgeon in that position to begin with tbh.

Callan57 · 03-09-2010 12:20PM

prinz wrote: »

The surgeon did know. He took out the kidney he was instructed to take out. Not his fault. As far as he was concerned he removed the correct kidney. Refusing the consultant is another issue.

Corbally screwed up. He shouldn't have put the surgeon in that position to begin with tbh.

Oh yea ... just following orders

Banned Account · 03-09-2010 12:24PM

Well one thing is for certain - you couldn't accuse the surgeon of being renally attentive*

*spoonerisms ftw.

landsleaving · 03-09-2010 12:36PM

prinz wrote: »

The surgeon did know. He took out the kidney he was instructed to take out. Not his fault. As far as he was concerned he removed the correct kidney. Refusing the consultant is another issue.

Corbally screwed up. He shouldn't have put the surgeon in that position to begin with tbh.

The article said 'he was baffled to find that the left kidney to be removed appeared healthy.'

That says to me he knew something was wrong, he should have really started asking questions at that point.

In fairness though, I do agree that its Corbally who is mainly at fault, complete negligence on his part.

prinz · 03-09-2010 12:42PM

landsleaving wrote: »

The article said 'he was baffled to find that the left kidney to be removed appeared healthy.'That says to me he knew something was wrong, he should have really started asking questions at that point..

He did. He double checked the paperwork. The paperwork was wrong. There is an issue with deference to authority. Happened before, will happen again. Human error.

bnt · 03-09-2010 12:48PM

Jelly2 wrote: »

It is also the case that the consultant said in court, according to yesterday's Indo, that he wrote 'left' in his notes after discussions with the parents about the operation, but that he should have written right. So he wrote it wrongly and, according to the surgeon, he told him wrongly too. Seems hard to blame the surgeon really.

If they really talk about "left" and "right", that's part of the problem right there: they are relative terms, depending on your position. They should be thinking like sailors: port and starboard. "Remove the starboard kidney."

landsleaving · 03-09-2010 12:56PM

prinz wrote: »

He did. He double checked the paperwork. The paperwork was wrong. There is an issue with deference to authority. Happened before, will happen again. Human error.

I guess I just have less sympathy for the guy. He saw a healthy kidney, thought 'hey, I'm meant to remove an unhealthy one' (the article seems to infer that he can tell the difference) and then just checked his paperwork, shrugged and blithely continued with a task he saw himself was a mistake.

I'm just going by this article though, I don't claim to know much about kidneys and surgery, so maybe its not as simple as that?

UpCork · 03-09-2010 01:14PM

landsleaving wrote: »

I guess I just have less sympathy for the guy. He saw a healthy kidney, thought 'hey, I'm meant to remove an unhealthy one' (the article seems to infer that he can tell the difference) and then just checked his paperwork, shrugged and blithely continued with a task he saw himself was a mistake.

I'm just going by this article though, I don't claim to know much about kidneys and surgery, so maybe its not as simple as that?

This is one thing I wondered. Surely when the surgeon was looking at the wrong kidney, he'd have known it looked healthy and should have queried it?

stovelid · 03-09-2010 01:25PM

sdonn wrote: »

Keep the sick jokes to yourselves.

I've tried my hardest and I'm coming up blank.

Decent renal puns are pretty thin on the ground, it would seem.

Banned Account · 03-09-2010 01:27PM

stovelid wrote: »

I've tried my hardest and I'm coming up blank.

Decent renal puns are pretty thin on the ground, it would seem.

What about my renally attentive one (punning with the fact that he wasn't anally retentive)

please thank me ...

--Kaiser-- · 03-09-2010 01:28PM

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

What about my renally attentive one (punning with the fact that he wasn't anally retentive)

please thank me ...

You've got to be kidneying me

Doctor removes the wrong kidney from kid

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