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What's your opinion on how James Toney will do in UFC ?

124

Comments

  • #92
    Big Ears
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,098 ✭✭✭Big Ears


    BoxingIrel.com wrote: »
    Ssssshhhhh! now - this is for the grown up. Dont worry RAW or Royal Rumble will be starting soon on SKY.

    Lads as always discussion is fine but lets not try wind people up.
    My ban stick is very dusty at the moment and I'd like to keep it that way.


  • #93
    Forest Master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    BoxingIrel.com wrote: »
    Dont worry RAW or Royal Rumble will be starting soon on SKY.

    Why do you keep bringing up WWE? :confused: This was an MMA fight - a real legit sport where real fighters fight to see who the better fighter is - what's the purpose of your comparison with WWE exactly? Is it just a transparent defence mechanism?


  • #94
    BoxingIrel.com
    Closed Accounts Posts: 291 ✭✭BoxingIrel.com


    Forest Master wrote: »
    Why do you keep bringing up WWE? :confused: This was an MMA fight - a real legit sport where real fighters fight to see who the better fighter is - what's the purpose of your comparison with WWE exactly? Is it just a transparent defence mechanism?

    Because watching the UFC product reminds me 100% of when I was kid watching WWF.

    Its aimed at the same market in my opinion.


  • #95
    Forest Master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    BoxingIrel.com wrote: »
    Its aimed at the same market in my opinion.
    It may be targeting a lot of the same audience, but it's not the same sport, so it makes you look defensive when you make the comparison.


  • #96
    BoxingIrel.com
    Closed Accounts Posts: 291 ✭✭BoxingIrel.com


    Forest Master wrote: »
    It may be targeting a lot of the same audience, but it's not the same sport, so it makes you look defensive when you make the comparison.

    you seem very defensive when I mentioned WWF. I explained my reasoning for the comment.


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  • #97
    Forest Master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    BoxingIrel.com wrote: »
    you seem very defensive when I mentioned WWF. I explained my reasoning for the comment.

    I'm not defensive at all - I asked why you keep referring to UFC as being WWE.
    When you're trying to be taken seriously in a debate, constantly doing that makes you look petty & childish. But I suppose it's not as if you've made any points that hold any water anyway.

    Last night proved what happens when a boxer fights in a real FIGHT where all skill-sets are allowed. If you still doubt that, just step into any MMA gym in Ireland and challenge the coach to a real fight. In fact, I'd put money on Bernard Dunne getting his ass handed to him by any of the country's top MMA coaches in a real fight. Andy Ryan, John Kavanagh, Barry Oglesby, Shane Thomas, etc. Any of these guys would have any boxer in the country on his back within 30 seconds and squirming around with no base, and tapped out whenever he felt like it - pretty much how it went down last night, actually.


  • #98
    BoxingIrel.com
    Closed Accounts Posts: 291 ✭✭BoxingIrel.com


    Forest Master wrote: »
    I'm not defensive at all - I asked why you keep referring to UFC as being WWE.
    When you're trying to be taken seriously in a debate, constantly doing that makes you look petty & childish. But I suppose it's not as if you've made any pioints that hold any water anyway.

    Last night proved what happens when a boxer fights in a real FIGHT where all skill-sets are allowed. If you still doubt that, just step into any MMA gym in Ireland and challenge the coach to a real fight. In fact, I'd put money on Bernard Dunne getting his ass handed to him by any of the country's top MMA coaches in a real fight. Andy Ryan, John Kavanagh, Barry Oglesby, Shane Thomas, etc.

    do you mean a street fight?

    I think you are missed what boxing is all about.


  • #99
    Forest Master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    BoxingIrel.com wrote: »
    do you mean a street fight?

    I think you are missed what boxing is all about.

    No, I mean an MMA fight. MMA isn't street fighting - there are no weapons, and no eye gouging/biting, kicks to groin, etc. It's punching, kicking, elbows, knees, clinch, dirty boxing, takedowns, submissions, ground & pound, etc. Basically, all elements of a fight.

    I get what boxing is - it's 1 element of a fight, and it's a beautiful highly-skilled combat sport. You're the one missing what MMA is all about.

    But boxing is only one skill-set of many in a real fight, and one that's easily neutralised by anyone with a grappling clue.


  • #100
    Bodhisopha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭Bodhisopha


    Forest Master wrote: »
    Why do you keep bringing up WWE? :confused: This was an MMA fight - a real legit sport where real fighters fight to see who the better fighter is - what's the purpose of your comparison with WWE exactly? Is it just a transparent defence mechanism?

    Don't act like it wasn't a gimmick match. MMA is a legit sport but a freakshow like that has no business in a legit sport imo.


  • #101
    Forest Master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    Bodhisopha wrote: »
    Don't act like it wasn't a gimmick match. MMA is a legit sport but a freakshow like that has no business in a legit sport imo.

    You saying Toney isn't a real fighter?


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  • #102
    siochain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭siochain


    Bodhisopha wrote: »
    Don't act like it wasn't a gimmick match. MMA is a legit sport but a freakshow like that has no business in a legit sport imo.

    Yes and the boxer is the one who kept pushing for the fight not the UFC. Fight was given to Toney to shut him up.

    One of the main reasons UFC is surpassing boxing is as I mentioned earlier is the fighters are contracted to the UFC. So the cards are matched in the interest of the fans and in most cases result in good shows with several good bouts outside of the main events.

    The UFC fighters are not managed by dodgy managers and promoters trying to build up fighters records.


  • #103
    Bodhisopha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭Bodhisopha


    Forest Master wrote: »
    You saying Toney isn't a real fighter?

    Er, what? Toney is a boxer many, many years past his prime. You say MMA is a legit sport. It's not Toneys sport though, is it?

    So he called out Couture. He has called out just about any boxer within 2 weight classes of him over the last few years but nobody will fight him. Why? Because he's so far past it and not worthy of a big fight. Can't get a big fight in his own own sport but gets joint top billing on a UFC card? I'm sorry, but that is a joke.

    And don't kid yourselves, Toney wasn't after MMA, he was after another payday. I'd imagine he's very pleased with himself this morning.


  • #104
    SDTimeout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭SDTimeout


    BoxingIrel.com wrote: »
    Because watching the UFC product reminds me 100% of when I was kid watching WWF.

    Its aimed at the same market in my opinion.

    Adults ? WWE only recently for the first time in many many years changed their marketing to PG.


  • #105
    DeVore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,387 ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    BoxingIrel had to take a little lie down and will join us again soon if he can behave himself.

    DeV.


  • #106
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    SDTimeout wrote: »
    Adults ? WWE only recently for the first time in many many years changed their marketing to PG.
    Obviously he must mean the 18-34 male demographic? Thats what the WWE was aimed at up until recently.


  • #107
    SDTimeout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭SDTimeout


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Obviously he must mean the 18-34 male demographic? Thats what the WWE was aimed at up until recently.

    Yep that's exactly what i thought.

    So him being not impressed at something aimed towards 18-34 when he was younger makes his point invalid.


  • #108
    Forest Master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    Bodhisopha wrote: »
    Toney is a boxer many, many years past his prime.

    ...he's so far past it and not worthy of a big fight.

    Interesting. Isn't it all relative though?

    James Toney: currently holds 2 boxing titles, 42yo, 72 professional wins.

    Randy Couture: holds no titles, 47yo, 19 professional wins.


  • #109
    TheTMO
    Closed Accounts Posts: 403 ✭✭TheTMO


    Forest Master wrote: »
    Interesting. Isn't it all relative though?

    James Toney: currently holds 2 boxing titles, 42yo, 72 professional wins.

    Randy Couture: holds no titles, 47yo, 19 professional wins.


    But you're missing the point. Floyd Mayweather could have been fighting last night and it wouldn't have made a difference. The fact is boxers can't fight against MMA artists because boxers have no clue how to fight on their backs. I mentioned in another thread about how I once witnessed one of the best boxers at underage level in the country getting tackled and beaten the crap out of by a kid who had never trained in his life, and thats what happened to Toney last night and thats what would happen to any boxer be it Toney or Ali in his prime.

    People seem to automatically assume that a boxer is going to be an excellent fighter outside of the ring (be it in a street fight or mma) but the fact is that even a drunken scumbag could beat a world class boxer in a street fight by just tackling him and taking him to the ground, so imagine what an actually trained MMA fighter could do. Being a great boxer doesnt automatically mean you're a great fighter, you're great at one aspect of fighting but the same as a lad off the street in every other.


  • #110
    Bodhisopha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭Bodhisopha


    Forest Master wrote: »
    Interesting. Isn't it all relative though?

    James Toney: currently holds 2 boxing titles, 42yo, 72 professional wins.

    Randy Couture: holds no titles, 47yo, 19 professional wins.

    You have ducked everything i have said.

    Just as a matter of interest, what titles does Toney currently hold?


  • #111
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,570 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Wow, this thread is completely ridiculous!


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  • #112
    Forest Master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    TheTMO wrote: »
    But you're missing the point. Floyd Mayweather could have been fighting last night and it wouldn't have made a difference. The fact is boxers can't fight against MMA artists because boxers have no clue how to fight on their backs. I mentioned in another thread about how I once witnessed one of the best boxers at underage level in the country getting tackled and beaten the crap out of by a kid who had never trained in his life, and thats what happened to Toney last night and thats what would happen to any boxer be it Toney or Ali in his prime.

    People seem to automatically assume that a boxer is going to be an excellent fighter outside of the ring (be it in a street fight or mma) but the fact is that even a drunken scumbag could beat a world class boxer in a street fight by just tackling him and taking him to the ground, so imagine what an actually trained MMA fighter could do. Being a great boxer doesnt automatically mean you're a great fighter, you're great at one aspect of fighting but the same as a lad off the street in every other.


    Eh, I'm agreeing with you. The boxing fans are trying to say that Couture beat a nobody - I'm pointing out that Toney's credentials outweigh Couture's on paper, and that Couture beat someone who is a current champion, 5 years younger than him, and who has a better pro record.

    Just as a matter of interest, what titles does Toney currently hold?

    NABO & IBA heavyweight.


  • #113
    cowzerp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    :rolleyes: Toney's Titles are not recognised, there not even 1 of there 4 that are recognised-that was just crap to market the fight as legit!!

    Randy beat a shell of a man, not a great boxer..

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • #114
    Gerard.C
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭Gerard.C


    Boxing Fans who are whinging, look up Tim Sylvia vs Ray Mercer.


  • #115
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,570 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    All this talk is bull.

    We'll probably NEVER see a peak World Class Boxer step into MMA, because why would they? Why would someone with the ego and pulling power of someone like Mayweather want to get into a cage with some skinny kid who Wrestled n High School and never boxed and get completely embarrassed?

    Certainly not for the money!

    MMA will beat Boxing 29 times out of 30 and there's no getting past it. No need for the boxing fans to get so bent out of shape.

    Every MMA fan seems to be able to freely admit that most World Class Boxer would destroy a World Class MMA fighter under the Queensbury Rules. But for people to have thought Toney would get anywhere near this fight last night was ridiculous!


  • #116
    Bodhisopha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭Bodhisopha


    Forest Master wrote: »
    Eh, I'm agreeing with you. The boxing fans are trying to say that Couture beat a nobody - I'm pointing out that Toney's credentials outweigh Couture's on paper, and that Couture beat someone who is a current champion, 5 years younger than him, and who has a better pro record.




    NABO & IBA heavyweight.

    LOL!

    I'm done talking boxing with you.


  • #117
    TheTMO
    Closed Accounts Posts: 403 ✭✭TheTMO


    But heres what I'm wondering,

    Do boxing fans actually think the result would of been any different last night had it been Floyd Mayweather and not Toney?


  • #118
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,570 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    TheTMO wrote: »
    But heres what I'm wondering,

    Do boxing fans actually think the result would of been any different last night had it been Floyd Mayweather and not Toney?

    Sure some fans even thought Toney would win, even one of the Mods here........
    walshb wrote: »
    BTW, Toney will win tonight. Couture is even more past it than James.

    :pac:


  • #119
    ironictoaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭ironictoaster


    The way I see it is

    Boxing + MMA + MMA rules = MMA wins.

    Boxing + MMA + Boxing rules = Boxing wins.

    The whole thing was done so that Toney could easily cash on something easily. UFC just promoted it Boxing v MMA and many idiots believed it.


  • #120
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,570 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    ironictoaster wrote: »
    The way I see it is

    Boxing + MMA + MMA rules = MMA wins.

    Boxing + MMA + Boxing rules = Boxing wins.

    The whole thing was done so that Toney could easily cash on something easily. UFC just promoted it Boxing v MMA and many idiots believed it.

    The difference is, an MMA fan is clever enough to know a Boxer outclasses an MMA practicioner in a Boxing match.


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  • #121
    seadnamac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭seadnamac


    Fight went completely as anyone with a bit of sense would have expected. The result proved that Randy Couture is a better Mixed Martial Artist than James Toney, no more than that.

    This whole debate is ridiculous anyway. Many fighters who first enter MMA are only skilled in one area, BJJ for example, just like Toney was only skilled in one area when he entered last night. If a BJJ fighter with zero MMA experience won his first fight would that mean that BJJ is better than MMA? Of course not. And vice versa.

    It was a side show, lets all move on.


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