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The Irish Secret Service

13

Comments

  • #62
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Misanthrope wrote: »

    Why do they dance to whatever tune the UN plays?Somalia,Liberia,East Timor?
    A neutral country is sending Special Ops units all around the world to conflicts we have nothing to do with.
    Who were they working for in Somalia?The yanks or the UN?

    Well first off. Ireland is not a neutral country. The goverment has a policy of neutrality, there is a difference.

    States have an international obligation to contribute to international stability. If we dident it would be seen as irresponcibility and wouldent go down too well in international diplomacy.

    Overseas missions is one of the best ways to train soldiers and it also keeps the moral of the army high because there is always something to do.

    Ireland is a member of the UN, So what is strange in takeing part in UN mandated missions?

    Switzerland, which is very much a netural country also takes part in such missions as do the vast majority of countrys.


  • #63
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Decades of Dáil questions but no real answers:

    1969
    "The nature of this service is such that, even if I had this information, it would not be in the public interest to give it."
    CJ Haughey responds to a question by Gerry L'Estrange.
    1986
    "The nature of secret service payments is such that to subject them to Dáil scrutiny would defeat the whole object of the expenditure."
    John Bruton responds to query by Gay Mitchell.
    1998
    "The purpose of the secret service is to obtain information necessary for the security of the State."
    Finance Minister Charlie McCreevy responds to a question by Trevor Sargent.
    2002
    "There is no secret service structure in this jurisdiction."
    Justice Minister Michael McDowell responds to a query by Aengus Ó Snodaigh.


    I cant decide whether McDowell is a liar or just incompetent.

    Maybe he said there is no secret structure because he didn't know we had one. Or he did know, but didn't know their existence had already been admitted by 2 former Taoiseachs and a Minister of Finance(which still sounds like incompetence).


  • #64
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    syklops wrote: »
    I cant decide whether McDowell is a liar or just incompetent.

    Maybe he said there is no secret structure because he didn't know we had one. Or he did know, but didn't know their existence had already been admitted by 2 former Taoiseachs and a Minister of Finance(which still sounds like incompetence).
    I'm guessing he's being clever by the use of appropriate wording.
    "...in this jurisdiction"
    So what about other jurisdictions? :pac:

    Have we ever known most TD's to give a straight answer? :D


  • #65
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Biggins wrote: »
    I'm guessing he's being clever by the use of appropriate wording.
    "...in this jurisdiction"
    So what about other jurisdictions? :pac:

    Have we ever known most TD's to give a straight answer? :D

    Thats a very good point. In many countries the Secret Service or Internal Security agency reports to the Department of Finance, not the Minister for Justice or Defence. An example of this are the Secret Service in the US.


  • #66
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Well first off. Ireland is not a neutral country. The goverment has a policy of neutrality, there is a difference.

    States have an international obligation to contribute to international stability. If we dident it would be seen as irresponcibility and wouldent go down too well in international diplomacy.

    Overseas missions is one of the best ways to train soldiers and it also keeps the moral of the army high because there is always something to do.

    Ireland is a member of the UN, So what is strange in takeing part in UN mandated missions?

    Switzerland, which is very much a netural country also takes part in such missions as do the vast majority of countrys.

    I didn't know that about the neutrality.If it is policy though ,wouldn't that make us neutral?Could you explain that in a bit more detail as I don't get the difference

    What were the assurances made pertaining to neutrality,prior to the Lisbon vote?If we are not in fact a neutral counrty why was it a bone of contention at the time of the referendum.

    I know we've sent troops to UN zones before but I was under the impression they were regulars.Have we always sent special ops on peace keeping missions?

    It seems they are more useful to everyone else than us.

    A US soldier( who could have been full of crap) told me that the Irish rangers were in Somalia before the US handed ops over to UN.Unfortunately all I have is that anecdote.


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  • #67
    Jeboa Safari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Jeboa Safari


    They usually go on the peacekeeping missions I think. They're the most highly trained soldiers we have so they'd obviously be useful.


  • #68
    Sanjuro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    €1 million of taxpayers money has been put aside this year to fund the Irish Secret Service, yet no-one seems to really know what they do or who they are.
    Isn't that the point?


  • #69
    force majeure
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 387 ✭✭force majeure


    Aaaaa horlicks to it, I was warned that my expenses clams would catch up with me.:D
    PS disclaimer
    This poster has no links to or with any members off the ISS nor does this poster accept any responsibility off any fall out over any future claims off said expenses.
    PS2 further that i take no responsibility for any links provided herewith on this form and all information provided comes from other party's so please use your discretion. :cool:


  • #70
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,755 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Rangers Wiki Page
    nothing on the super-sekret service funnily enough.


  • #71
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    King Felix wrote: »
    Here is some stuff from Cryptome on our Secret Service...

    http://www.trust-us.ch/cryptome/01-Cryptome-061213/ie-spies.htm

    There used to be one on there about the Islamist cells in Ireland but I can't find it on google.

    That was extremely interesting and somewhat surprising in parts.If that's the level of espionage in Ireland, I can't imagine how rife it is in other more powerful nations.


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  • #72
    King Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭King Felix


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    That was extremely interesting and somewhat surprising in parts.If that's the level of espionage in Ireland, I can't imagine how rife it is in other more powerful nations.

    Yes. Not only have the French cheated us out of the World Cup but they're trying to steal our technological secrets.

    It's a bit dated the article but it gives an idea what they get up. A great resource for conpiracy 'nuts' is Cryptome.org


  • #73
    Dimithy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 351 ✭✭Dimithy


    Misanthrope wrote: »

    Now if you look back you'll see that I said probably not definitely.It's a suspicion I have but one I cannot prove,hence probably.

    Probably would mean that there is a good chance of this being true.
    You probably mean possibly.
    As in there's a chance it could be true, in the same why that there's a chance that a bear is standing behind me right now.


  • #74
    sheesh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭sheesh


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    I didn't know that about the neutrality.If it is policy though ,wouldn't that make us neutral?Could you explain that in a bit more detail as I don't get the difference

    What were the assurances made pertaining to neutrality,prior to the Lisbon vote?If we are not in fact a neutral counrty why was it a bone of contention at the time of the referendum.

    I know we've sent troops to UN zones before but I was under the impression they were regulars.Have we always sent special ops on peace keeping missions?

    It seems they are more useful to everyone else than us.

    A US soldier( who could have been full of crap) told me that the Irish rangers were in Somalia before the US handed ops over to UN.Unfortunately all I have is that anecdote.


    just a few notes on this it was explained on some radio program that while we claim we are neutral country to be perfectly accurate we are a non aligned country in that we actually don't have a big enough army to defend ourselves if we were attacked.

    Sweden in a neutral country they have national service for their citizens SAAB aerospace make their warplanes they have a national plan if Russia decides to attack them.

    I heard that the rangers were in east timor and were involved in some rescue attempt it was in the news at the time.

    it would make sense that a special ops to go with the army at the very least as a scouting role so they probably do.


  • #75
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    I didn't know that about the neutrality.If it is policy though ,wouldn't that make us neutral?Could you explain that in a bit more detail as I don't get the difference

    Irish politicians play on the nutral thing alot because Irish people like to think of themselves as such. However we are not nutral. We are non aligned (not in NATO) If we were nutral we couldent take part in the EU battlegroups.
    What were the assurances made pertaining to neutrality,prior to the Lisbon vote?If we are not in fact a neutral counrty why was it a bone of contention at the time of the referendum.

    That was about the possible creation of an EU army, Conscription and wether or not the goverment would have the choice to participate in a case by case basis rather than being required to send troops by the EU as they deemed necessary.
    I know we've sent troops to UN zones before but I was under the impression they were regulars. Have we always sent special ops on peace keeping missions?

    We have sent 'Regulars' to many places over the years, The main places would have been The Congo, Lebenon, Liberia, Kosovo and most recently Chad. There is also a few officers serving in Afganistan:eek:
    For a list of all the places the Army has gon you can check out Military.ie.

    We have also sent the ARW (special forces) overseas but not always with the regulars.
    As for the ARW there is no full list of where they have been deployed but it is known that they have been to East Timor, Somialia and most recently (afaik) Chad.
    It seems they are more useful to everyone else than us.

    As a tool of diplomacy Irish soldiers helping out with overseas missions is good for this countrys image.
    A US soldier( who could have been full of crap) told me that the Irish rangers were in Somalia before the US handed ops over to UN.Unfortunately all I have is that anecdote.

    No he was right, they were there in 1993 I think.


  • #76
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    I know we've sent troops to UN zones before but I was under the impression they were regulars.Have we always sent special ops on peace keeping missions?

    It seems they are more useful to everyone else than us.

    A US soldier( who could have been full of crap) told me that the Irish rangers were in Somalia before the US handed ops over to UN.Unfortunately all I have is that anecdote.

    We haven't been involved in a 'peace keeping' operation since UNIFIL (I) ended in 2001. All mission's since have been 'peace enforcement' (including UNIFIL II in 2006).

    I can't remember if a Ranger unit went to Somalia, but I'd be fairly confident in saying it didn't.

    Ranger units have went to East Timor, Liberia & Chad before the 'regular' troops out out.. But they (Rangers) went out in a conventional 'green' role.
    It seems they are more useful to everyone else than us.

    They're invaluble to us, in terms of recce & intel gathering. As an advance party they also carry a little more horsepower and lay down a very firm stamp of authority than the 'regular' infantry battalion.


  • #77
    Brendog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,976 ✭✭✭Brendog


    admiralofthefleet wrote: »
    its a secret



    ITS A TRAP!


  • #78
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    Dimithy wrote: »
    Probably would mean that there is a good chance of this being true.
    You probably mean possibly.
    As in there's a chance it could be true, in the same why that there's a chance that a bear is standing behind me right now.

    Ya thats probably what I meant to say.


  • #79
    Jeboa Safari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Jeboa Safari


    I think a couple of rangers and intelligence people were sent to Iraq when an Irishman was kidnapped over there a few years ago.


  • #80
    thefishone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭thefishone


    Evalyn Most Cheekbone wrote: »
    I can't remember if a Ranger unit went to Somalia, but I'd be fairly confident in saying it didn't.

    Didn't they deploy with the first Irish Unit (or in advance of them) that went to Somaila,I think about 1992-93.


  • #81
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    thefishone wrote: »
    Didn't they deploy with the first Irish Unit (or in advance of them) that went to Somaila,I think about 1992-93.

    Your putting a little doubt in my mind now, but I really don't think so.

    I volunteered for Somalia and didn't get it, and I don't remember a Ranger advance party.

    I'm fairly certain East Timor was the first time a Ranger unit was deployed on active service outside of Ireland.


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  • #82
    CorkMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭CorkMan


    The Secret Service is there incase Al Queda want to crash a plane into the Dáil.

    I, *whispers*, know a person who knows a person who knows a person who used to work with the Secret Service. He said rumours were abound that Mary Harney met with Bin Laden, but they could not form a truce as Harney was too evil for Bin Laden.

    She could barely make it up the mountain anyway.

    *coughs* MOVE ALONG PEOPLE, NOTHING TO SEE HERE.


  • #83
    Jeboa Safari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Jeboa Safari


    http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/missions/past/unosom2facts.html
    Says we contributed to Somalia, doesn't say what though


  • #84
    Gone West
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,374 ✭✭✭Gone West


    A million a year is nothing...
    Its hardly a big organisation if that is all they are getting.


  • #85
    Teferi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    I didn't even realise there was an Irish Secret Service until I read this thread so they must be fuckin' good.


  • #86
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Teferi wrote: »
    I didn't even realise there was an Irish Secret Service until I read this thread so they must be fuckin' good.
    :pac:

    We do not exist - and you heard it from us! :cool:


  • #87
    King Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭King Felix


    Teferi wrote: »
    I didn't even realise there was an Irish Secret Service until I read this thread so they must be fuckin' good.

    Cmdt. O. O'Seacht is the head man.


  • #88
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    *cough* Seychelles *cough*


  • #89
    Local-womanizer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭Local-womanizer


    Evalyn Most Cheekbone wrote: »
    Your putting a little doubt in my mind now, but I really don't think so.

    I volunteered for Somalia and didn't get it, and I don't remember a Ranger advance party.

    I'm fairly certain East Timor was the first time a Ranger unit was deployed on active service outside of Ireland.

    Theres a pic going about of a squad in Somalia,or so it claims,ill see if I can find it.

    Edit: Thats it,

    http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Ireland/som1.jpg


  • #90
    Jeboa Safari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Jeboa Safari


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    *cough* Seychelles *cough*

    Is there any truth in them arms rumours? And that was regular army officers and not the secret service I think?


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  • #91
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    Fuzzy wrote: »
    A million a year is nothing...
    Its hardly a big organisation if that is all they are getting.

    True, you could hardly set up a boyscout troop for that.Maybe Uncle Sam is a kinder Uncle than I realised.

    It's always irked me that they wouldn't kit us out with a handful of old f-15s or even a few bloody Phantoms.Anything better than a bloody Fouga would do.Jets for the boys like.
    hey have thousands lying idle over here in 'graveyards'
    The Saudis and Israelis are being spoiled with goodies.


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