Overseeding

Muckit · 26-08-2010 01:24PM #1

What to lads think? Have you done this/similiar before......?

I've 7 acres of aftergrass mowed this morning for baled silage (baling sat) and I'm thinking of moving straight in afterwards and overseeding it (with grass seed). I just don't want the hassle or expense of a full reseed. The sward is very open and weedy, so I'd like the benefit of cheap fresh grass.

My plan is once bales removed, to run the grass harrow on it, then use seed barrow to put on a bag of grass seed/acre, then roll it. I'm going to lay off putting on fertilizer until I see the crop emerge as I don't want the old grass to take over (ideally I should have prob burnt it off, but no point talkin about that now!!)

I'I put on a few bags of 10 10 20 in about 3-4weeks (end sept)

Does this sound like a plan? Any other help/suggestions appreciated.

nilhg · 26-08-2010 01:30PM

Well you can't make things any much worse, the grass harrow won't do much damage to the old swarth, the biggest problem is that the old grass will out compete the new seeds, you'd need to keep it grazed very tight but be careful of poaching.

Muckit · 26-08-2010 02:43PM

Wel that's what i was thinking, for the price of the seed (it was €30/bag there last spring, I hope it's still the same!) and the tonne of manure, I'd have the field looking not half bad.

As you say, I'd want to avoid poaching it, that'I all depend what way the weather is when it comes to grazing it!:rolleyes:

reilig · 26-08-2010 04:04PM

I baled 8 acres of silage yesterday that I sprayed with roundup biactive a week ago. I ran the chainharrow on it twice yesterday evening and spread grass seed along with 1 bag per acre of 10-10-20 and 1 bag per acre of granulated lime. I intend to cover the whole lot with a very light coat of slurry this evening and roll it in. In the past this method has worked out great for reseeding for me. It doesn't break the sod and I find that grass grows much better on it than if I had power harrowed the top inch of soil.

I would recommend spraying - especially when you have already cut the silage. It will be dead in a few days and you can then come in and harrow and seed it. It will prevent the old grass from smothering the new grass. A bit of lime will ensure that fewer crofot or weed grows.

Tipp Man · 26-08-2010 04:13PM

Muckit wrote: »

What to lads think? Have you done this/similiar before......?

I've 7 acres of aftergrass mowed this morning for baled silage (baling sat) and I'm thinking of moving straight in afterwards and overseeding it (with grass seed). I just don't want the hassle or expense of a full reseed. The sward is very open and weedy, so I'd like the benefit of cheap fresh grass.

My plan is once bales removed, to run the grass harrow on it, then use seed barrow to put on a bag of grass seed/acre, then roll it. I'm going to lay off putting on fertilizer until I see the crop emerge as I don't want the old grass to take over (ideally I should have prob burnt it off, but no point talkin about that now!!)

I'I put on a few bags of 10 10 20 in about 3-4weeks (end sept)

Does this sound like a plan? Any other help/suggestions appreciated.

How you going to get rid of the weeds without a spray?

Or am i missing something?

Muckit · 27-08-2010 09:52AM

reilig wrote: »

I baled 8 acres of silage yesterday that I sprayed with roundup biactive a week ago. I ran the chainharrow on it twice yesterday evening and spread grass seed along with 1 bag per acre of 10-10-20 and 1 bag per acre of granulated lime. I intend to cover the whole lot with a very light coat of slurry this evening and roll it in. In the past this method has worked out great for reseeding for me. It doesn't break the sod and I find that grass grows much better on it than if I had power harrowed the top inch of soil.

I would recommend spraying - especially when you have already cut the silage. It will be dead in a few days and you can then come in and harrow and seed it. It will prevent the old grass from smothering the new grass. A bit of lime will ensure that fewer crofot or weed grows.

Hi Reilig,

Did you spread the seed in the fert together with the fert and lime? If so, did you keep tight with your tramlines or just the same as if you were spreading fert only? I've never used this method for a large area before only to patch bits of poached ground. I'd be anxious that it wouldn't come out even, that's why I was thinking of using seed barrow. But if it worked, I might chance it.

I've only a small 8cwt single spinner, maybe you use a wagtail or a bigger double spinner, I'd say they are more accurate.

Also re spraying, won't I have to wait until regrowth comes to spray off? Will it have much affect on stubble?

I would be aofraid then of it being too late and frost arriving!:mad:

Muckit · 27-08-2010 09:57AM

Tipp Man wrote: »

How you going to get rid of the weeds without a spray?

Or am i missing something?

It's a crop of aftergrass that never got any fert and only a light spread on first cut. I'm reckoning because it's got two cuts and because of the time of the year, that the weeds won't grow too much before the grass seed comes. If they do come, I was planning of putting stock in to bare it tight.

Maybe I've it all wrong and this plan isn't a runner?:rolleyes:

reilig · 27-08-2010 10:44AM

I spread it with a wagtail the other day. Went over the whole lot of it twice in different directions. Mixed half the seed with the fertilizer first and spread it and then mixed the other half of the seed with the lime and spread it. i don't think I missed any ground. I've spread seed mixed with fertilizer in the past with a small spinner like you have and it came out perfect. The secret is to put it on very light and go over it twice. The first time I ever seeded, i used the seed barrow, set it at the recommended setting (3 match sticks wide I think). Put 3 acre packs into and there was still seed in it after I had 6 acres covered. Its a slow process and I had no intention of going over it again with the seeder so i just mixed the seed with the fertilizer and finished the rest with the spreader. It worked perfect.

As for spraying, stubble is ideal for spraying. You'll get a fast kill and you won't need to clean it off before you harrow it. I recommend the Roundup Biactive for a faster kill - even though it is more expensive than other glyphos products. If you sprayed today, you could harrow it a few times over the weekend and be ready to seed by wednesday next week. its promised good until then anyway. Frost won't have a big impact on grass until december. if you get it sown and it gets established, then it will be safe.

Muckit wrote: »

Hi Reilig,

Did you spread the seed in the fert together with the fert and lime? If so, did you keep tight with your tramlines or just the same as if you were spreading fert only? I've never used this method for a large area before only to patch bits of poached ground. I'd be anxious that it wouldn't come out even, that's why I was thinking of using seed barrow. But if it worked, I might chance it.

I've only a small 8cwt single spinner, maybe you use a wagtail or a bigger double spinner, I'd say they are more accurate.

Also re spraying, won't I have to wait until regrowth comes to spray off? Will it have much affect on stubble? I would be aofraid then of it being too late and frost arriving!:mad:

5live · 27-08-2010 10:53AM

Muckit wrote: »

What to lads think? Have you done this/similiar before......?

I've 7 acres of aftergrass mowed this morning for baled silage (baling sat) and I'm thinking of moving straight in afterwards and overseeding it (with grass seed). I just don't want the hassle or expense of a full reseed. The sward is very open and weedy, so I'd like the benefit of cheap fresh grass.

My plan is once bales removed, to run the grass harrow on it, then use seed barrow to put on a bag of grass seed/acre, then roll it. I'm going to lay off putting on fertilizer until I see the crop emerge as I don't want the old grass to take over (ideally I should have prob burnt it off, but no point talkin about that now!!)

I'I put on a few bags of 10 10 20 in about 3-4weeks (end sept)

Does this sound like a plan? Any other help/suggestions appreciated.

Just watch the old nitrates regulations. All N and P out before 15th sept and 31st aug for REPS3. Might better wait for weekend at end of sept;)

Muckit · 01-09-2010 10:31PM

reilig wrote: »

I baled 8 acres of silage yesterday that I sprayed with roundup biactive a week ago. I ran the chainharrow on it twice yesterday evening and spread grass seed along with 1 bag per acre of 10-10-20 and 1 bag per acre of granulated lime. I intend to cover the whole lot with a very light coat of slurry this evening and roll it in. In the past this method has worked out great for reseeding for me. It doesn't break the sod and I find that grass grows much better on it than if I had power harrowed the top inch of soil.

I would recommend spraying - especially when you have already cut the silage. It will be dead in a few days and you can then come in and harrow and seed it. It will prevent the old grass from smothering the new grass. A bit of lime will ensure that fewer crofot or weed grows.

I changed from my original plan and sprayed off like you suggested with roundup. (4L roundup/200L water to cover 2acres) It was kinda niggling in the back of my mind to do it anyway:rolleyes: No point being penny wise and pound foolish. It would only have bugged the sh1t out of me if it came out covered in weeds.

I got the loan of a single leg subsoiler from a neighbour and did the lot yesterday before spraying off today, which as it happens, worked out brilliant when it came to spraying as I could follow slits left by subsoiler

I couldn't imagine trying to burn off without having them as a guide.

I look into the gran lime too. Lad at co op suggested not to spread seed with the lime as it might damage it ?!

Any which way, I'I just spread the seed with the 10 10 20 and leave gran lime until 3-4 weeks time or might put off until spring altogether, from what I've read on gouldings website I think it has thesoil has the best uptake then;)

John_F · 01-09-2010 10:43PM

was there green in the field when you sprayed?

Muckit · 02-09-2010 03:08PM

Ya it was cut 6.5 days before I sprayed so it was well green (Cut it last Thurs morning, sprayed following Wed afternoon(Yesterday). Regrowth with the fine weather has been very good.

I'm hoping that by Saturday week(12Sept) it'I be well 'burnt off'. I'I chain harrow the hell out of it then. I'h hoping I'I get enough of a tilt in the soil to sow the seed by just this alone. If not I'I get a contractor to power harrow, but hoping to get away with not power harrowing if possible as I feel it'I stop spread of docks by not disturbing existing roots.

I've never min tilled before so it's trial and error. There's only one way to find out if something works or not and that's trying it out for yourself:rolleyes:

sea12 · 02-09-2010 09:45PM

reilig wrote: »

I spread it with a wagtail the other day. Went over the whole lot of it twice in different directions. Mixed half the seed with the fertilizer first and spread it and then mixed the other half of the seed with the lime and spread it. i don't think I missed any ground. I've spread seed mixed with fertilizer in the past with a small spinner like you have and it came out perfect. The secret is to put it on very light and go over it twice. The first time I ever seeded, i used the seed barrow, set it at the recommended setting (3 match sticks wide I think). Put 3 acre packs into and there was still seed in it after I had 6 acres covered. Its a slow process and I had no intention of going over it again with the seeder so i just mixed the seed with the fertilizer and finished the rest with the spreader. It worked perfect.

As for spraying, stubble is ideal for spraying. You'll get a fast kill and you won't need to clean it off before you harrow it. I recommend the Roundup Biactive for a faster kill - even though it is more expensive than other glyphos products. If you sprayed today, you could harrow it a few times over the weekend and be ready to seed by wednesday next week. its promised good until then anyway. Frost won't have a big impact on grass until december. if you get it sown and it gets established, then it will be safe.

Dont think He would get it would be ready that quick rellig. Even though I suspose it is aftergrass and would burn off quicker.

I got a couple of acres sprayed off last thursday and it is only starting to buen today. It was an old sward and it probably needed a a couple of days between grazing and spraying.

I am raging as had lad booked into spray it 2 weeks earlier but he never came until last thursday. Definately getting my own sprayer next year. Fed up trying to get people to do Jobs like this. never come on time when the time is just right. I could have the seed in this week now in perfect conditions if it had went to plan.

As it is next week is meant to be a very wet week. So it will be the following week by the looks of things and it is starting to get a bit on the late side.

reilig · 02-09-2010 09:55PM

sea12 wrote: »

Dont think He would get it would be ready that quick rellig.

I posted that over a week ago

sea12 · 02-09-2010 10:19PM

reilig wrote: »

I posted that over a week ago

I'm like my sprayer man, A bit Late!!!

Muckit · 03-09-2010 04:17PM

Hey

Came across this article on reseeding, some good pointers.......;)

http://www.independent.ie/farming/news-features/savings-to-be-made-in-grass-reseeding-1700669.html

reilig · 04-09-2010 12:28PM

Muckit wrote: »

Hey

Came across this article on reseeding, some good pointers.......;)

http://www.independent.ie/farming/news-features/savings-to-be-made-in-grass-reseeding-1700669.html

There was an article in last week's journal that looked at min till machines. To be honest the principal is all the same as what you and I are doing. Perhaps even the chain harrow is a better job than the tynes on the machines that they are using and do you really think that an electric seed spreader will spread seed better or more accurately than a fertilizer spreader. I don't think so. Our way of reseeding may not be pretty, but it does the same job as these machines - and we havent't spent 10 grand on the machinery

The article even said that overseedng is a good job (without spraying)

Sam Kade · 04-09-2010 11:15PM

Muckit wrote: »

Hey

Came across this article on reseeding, some good pointers.......;)

http://www.independent.ie/farming/news-features/savings-to-be-made-in-grass-reseeding-1700669.html

Interesting. If you reseeded with a nurse crop in the spring 4 to 5 stone of oats/ac you could be grazing it 4/5 weeks after.

Muckit · 05-09-2010 04:07PM

reilig wrote: »

There was an article in last week's journal that looked at min till machines. To be honest the principal is all the same as what you and I are doing. Perhaps even the chain harrow is a better job than the tynes on the machines that they are using and do you really think that an electric seed spreader will spread seed better or more accurately than a fertilizer spreader. I don't think so. Our way of reseeding may not be pretty, but it does the same job as these machines - and we havent't spent 10 grand on the machinery

The article even said that overseedng is a good job (without spraying)

Your dead right. there's a world of those machines (einbock grass harrows and air seeder combo types) for sale on the net that are only a year or two old. They are mad money and outside the scope of most farmers. I'd say alot of contractors may have bought them but got very little custom.

I seen that article in farmers Journal that you talked about. I just thought what alot of money for doing a relatively simple job. Even power harrows, they do leave a lovely flat fluffy finish, but this isn't always ideal for grass seed. There's alot of maintenance and wearing parts then to fix and they are slow working machines requiring big hp! I think with grass burnt off that a good triple K harrow or something similar would rough things up enough if you wanted to rough things up before using a chain harrow to finish off making the seedbed before seeding.

I bought a new hackett 10' drag chain harrow this spring for €600 from Johnstons farm mach in longford. Best investment I ever made. He sold the world of them to farmers reseeding this year.

I chain harrowed all the farm during the spring before spreading fertilizer. Great to pull out moss, weeds and dead grass. The only thing I noticed was that ends used to bonce and curl up, but I cured that by linking on 2 sections of 5' girder side by side to the back. Keeps it well pulled out and you get a good 'bite' with them. I'I take these off and turn the whole thing upside down to cover seed

Muckit · 15-09-2010 03:09PM

reilig wrote: »

I spread it with a wagtail the other day. Went over the whole lot of it twice in different directions. Mixed half the seed with the fertilizer first and spread it and then mixed the other half of the seed with the lime and spread it. i don't think I missed any ground. I've spread seed mixed with fertilizer in the past with a small spinner like you have and it came out perfect. The secret is to put it on very light and go over it twice. The first time I ever seeded, i used the seed barrow, set it at the recommended setting (3 match sticks wide I think). Put 3 acre packs into and there was still seed in it after I had 6 acres covered. Its a slow process and I had no intention of going over it again with the seeder so i just mixed the seed with the fertilizer and finished the rest with the spreader. It worked perfect.

As for spraying, stubble is ideal for spraying. You'll get a fast kill and you won't need to clean it off before you harrow it. I recommend the Roundup Biactive for a faster kill - even though it is more expensive than other glyphos products. If you sprayed today, you could harrow it a few times over the weekend and be ready to seed by wednesday next week. its promised good until then anyway. Frost won't have a big impact on grass until december. if you get it sown and it gets established, then it will be safe.

I got a good kill off with the roundup. Had planned on tilling at the weekend but weather just so bad, going to hook up chain harrow now this evening.

On the spreading the seed......... did you ever just spread the seed on it's own on a very low setting?? My concerns with mixing seed with fertilizer is firstly

1)to get it mixed right in spreader
2) Will fertilizer and seed not broadcast differently as the seed in lighter than the fertilizer???

(I'm no expert, just my opinion) If I follow how far the spreader 'throws' the fertilizer, will the seed not travel a shorter distance than this??

I know you've done this for any years this way, so maybe my concerns aren't necessary??

Thanks for all advice

Has anyone any other experience of broadcasting seed with fertiliser spreader?????

reilig · 15-09-2010 03:19PM

Muckit wrote: »

I got a good kill off with the roundup. Had planned on tilling at the weekend but weather just so bad, going to hook up chain harrow now this evening.

On the spreading the seed......... did you ever just spread the seed on it's own on a very low setting?? My concerns with mixing seed with fertilizer is firstly

1)to get it mixed right in spreader
2) Will fertilizer and seed not broadcast differently as the seed in lighter than the fertilizer??? (I'm no expert, just my opinion) If I follow how far the spreader 'throws' the fertilizer, will the seed not travel a shorter distance than this??

I know you've done this for any years this way, so maybe my concerns aren't necessary??

Thanks for all advice

Has anyone any other experience of broadcasting seed with fertiliser spreader?????

My spreader (a wagtail) has a setting for broadcasting seed alone. I don't think there would be a problem spreading it with a spinner or wagtail. It would be a case of trial and error in my opinion. Try it out with one bag, see how much ground you have covered and take it from there. If you have it at a very low setting sure you will have it there or thereabouts. Be careful if its windy though (as it is here today) - you will end up with uneven cover.

I saw my father in law spread seed on 7 acres 2 years ago with a bucket. It came up perfect. There was no accuracy used or needed there. I told him that I'd do it with the spreader but he siad that this was the way that he always did it and it always worked for him.

A small bit of seed goes a long way. Spread it as light as you can and then if you have some left over, go over it again.

Username John · 15-09-2010 04:28PM

reilig wrote: »

My spreader (a wagtail) has a setting for broadcasting seed alone. I don't think there would be a problem spreading it with a spinner or wagtail. It would be a case of trial and error in my opinion. Try it out with one bag, see how much ground you have covered and take it from there. If you have it at a very low setting sure you will have it there or thereabouts. Be careful if its windy though (as it is here today) - you will end up with uneven cover.

How close do you go between 'lines' or 'rows' with the spinner? The seed wouldnt travel that far (I imagine), so am interested to know how close you drive to the last line you did.

reilig wrote: »

I saw my father in law spread seed on 7 acres 2 years ago with a bucket. It came up perfect. There was no accuracy used or needed there.

Ouch - 7 acres - thats a lot o walking and shaking o seed... :eek:

reilig · 15-09-2010 09:03PM

Username John wrote: »

How close do you go between 'lines' or 'rows' with the spinner? The seed wouldnt travel that far (I imagine), so am interested to know how close you drive to the last line you did.

Ouch - 7 acres - thats a lot o walking and shaking o seed... :eek:

How close do you drive, well that will depend on how wide it spreads and if you're going over it twice, its fine to let it lap a little bit. As i said, I mix the fertilizer with it, so its easy to see on sprayed off grass how wide the seed and fertilizer went.

As I said in one of my earlier posts, the whole secret to getting an even grass growth and not having lines or rows is to spread the seed lightly and go over it twice - the second direction perpindicular to the first direction IYKWIM. When you are finished you will have done a chequered seed spread across the field and anything that you missed in the first run, you will cover in the second.

I'll try to put up a picture of what I seeded 3 weeks ago. There's a fine cover of grass coming on it now since the downpours of rain finished 3 days ago.

dar31 · 15-09-2010 09:47PM

spreading with a twin disc spinner we drive the with of the tractor apart.
the when we go to roll the field we leave the spinner on and put the roller on the long drawbar. we leave the spinner running and the doors closed when rolling, some seed will still come out, leaving a fairly even cover of seed

Muckit · 16-09-2010 09:02AM

dar31 wrote: »

spreading with a twin disc spinner we drive the with of the tractor apart.
the when we go to roll the field we leave the spinner on and put the roller on the long drawbar. we leave the spinner running and the doors closed when rolling, some seed will still come out, leaving a fairly even cover of seed

You mix the fertiliser with the seed the first time though, yeah dar31?

That sounds like a good idea pulling the roller behind while still spreading some seed to finish up, your pretty sure to get everything then.

Muckit · 16-09-2010 09:16AM

reilig wrote: »

How close do you drive, well that will depend on how wide it spreads and if you're going over it twice, its fine to let it lap a little bit. As i said, I mix the fertilizer with it, so its easy to see on sprayed off grass how wide the seed and fertilizer went.

As I said in one of my earlier posts, the whole secret to getting an even grass growth and not having lines or rows is to spread the seed lightly and go over it twice - the second direction perpindicular to the first direction IYKWIM. When you are finished you will have done a chequered seed spread across the field and anything that you missed in the first run, you will cover in the second.

I'll try to put up a picture of what I seeded 3 weeks ago. There's a fine cover of grass coming on it now since the downpours of rain finished 3 days ago.

I understand the spreading pattern you use, it's a good idea. I do the same when I'm spraying grazing ground to make sure I get everything.

I chainharrowed last night. Gave it 4runs. Did it criss cross (chequer style diagonal runs like you describe) and then i went diagonally from opposite corners of the field and then from the other two corners (to make an X.......hard to explain without a diagram, but I think you should understand) I think I got it well blackened now. It didn't pull out the scraws though, it shouldn't do? Not necessary??

Anyways, I had only gave it one run when the oul lad came up with diesel in the jeep and said I was only 'wasting my time with that yoke' and that a powerharrow is what is needed!!! :mad: Now he has me doubting myself!! I'I never live it down if the reseed is a disaster!:rolleyes:

Planning on spreading seed with fertiliser this evening, giving it one run with chain harrow again and then rolling. What's the verdict guys, to powerharrow or not??:rolleyes:

reilig · 16-09-2010 09:24AM

Remember the articles in the Independent and the journal last week about the min till machines - none of them remove the scraw and they work fine. You're not doing anything different.

The whole idea of the chain harrow is not to break the scraw. Mine was chain harrowed twice and the seed spread on top of it. Rolled in, and that was it.
Chain harrowing is enough for it. Don't waste your money on the power harrow. Get the seed sown because its getting late for it. It will strike within a week and by the middle of next month there will be a nice bit of grass on it.

Muckit wrote: »

I understand the spreading pattern you use, it's a good idea. I do the same when I'm spraying grazing ground to make sure I get everything.

I chainharrowed last night. Gave it 4runs. Did it criss cross (chequer style diagonal runs like you describe) and then i went diagonally from opposite corners of the field and then from the other two corners (to make an X.......hard to explain without a diagram, but I think you should understand) I think I got it well blackened now. It didn't pull out the scraws though, it shouldn't do? Not necessary??

Anyways, I had only gave it one run when the oul lad came up with diesel in the jeep and said I was only 'wasting my time with that yoke' and that a powerharrow is what is needed!!! :mad: Now he has me doubting myself!! I'I never live it down if the reseed is a disaster!:rolleyes:

Planning on spreading seed with fertiliser this evening, giving it one run with chain harrow again and then rolling. What's the verdict guys, to powerharrow or not??:rolleyes:

vanderbadger · 16-09-2010 09:55AM

have seen a few of those massey corn drills for sale recently for handy enough money, would they be ok for grass seed?

just do it · 21-06-2013 12:39AM

Well Muckit, now that we're 3 years down the line how did the reseed get on?

Muckit · 21-06-2013 08:46AM

HI JDI

I did a full reseed that time, not just 'overseeding. I sprayed it off with roundup, then got contractor to give it a single light rub of powerharrow. Then I shook grass seed on its own with spinner, then put out 2 -2.5 bags of 10-10-20(I think)

This year I have given overseeding a go. But wasn't going to mention it here until I seen results

..........so basically I sprayed meadow 3weeks precutting with Hi-load micram. This was to kill off all weeds (few docks, but mainly buttercups). Walked it last night and none coming in regrowth so I'm happy out.

Silage picked up on 8 June and a few days later I gave it a run of chain harrow, then attached chain harrow to back of spinner and spread grass seed, then a bag of 0-10-20/acre. I also threw half a bag of seed into each tank and got slurry out on it. Then borrowed a neighbours roller and gave it a light roll

It's starting to green up now, but that's the old grass. Once it comes on another bit I'I use strip wire (front and back) to move them around the field and clip it down. This should let light into the new seedling and give them the best chance. I'm thinking if it doesn't work, I can throw my hat at this overseeding lark!! The weather has been perfect for it.

just do it · 21-06-2013 09:10AM

Ah you got a power harrow in the end

. I hadn't noticed the thread was called overseed as I stumbled across it when searching for something else.

I like what you've done this year. At a minimum you'd hope the new seed will take off on the bare ground where the weeds were. Keeping it grazed makes sense alright. Best of luck with it

Overseeding

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