Strong right wing party: would you vote for them?

HavingCrack · 25-08-2010 05:37PM

No because it ends up with you invading Russia and having your country divided up into two for over half a century....

I'd vote for a Libertarian party but you can't classify that as right wing or left wing. The government out of our pockets and out of our bedrooms.

Morlar · 25-08-2010 06:12PM

Not all right wing parties end up with concentration camps (anymore than leftwing ones end up with Gulags).

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 25-08-2010 11:04PM

Morlar wrote: »

Not all right wing parties end up with concentration camps (anymore than leftwing ones end up with Gulags).

Part of the point I keep making!

Admittedly, this thread is a few months old, but again: I wasn't talking about extreme right-wing nazism (would kinda hope that would be a non-starter anyway!) just general right-wing policies along the lines of harsh punishment for criminals and a strong immigration stance. I'm not talking racism or big brother style conformity!

Pawpad666 · 25-08-2010 11:10PM

Hell no.

flag123 · 26-08-2010 01:40AM

Probably will happen in a few years seeing that you need a strong economy for the extreme liberals to leach off whiles talking their boring, unoriginal views.:p

Misanthrope · 26-08-2010 02:27AM

Tougher Immigration - Yes, we should be cherry picking the best of them

Death Penalty - For convicted paedophiles and treason and for wanton corporate criminals.eg Sean Fitzpatrick

Labour Camps - For who?Labour camps are symptoms of economic failure or a war economy.I think neither would be in our interests.

More Paycuts for PS - I don't see why the PubSector shouldn't match the mean pay of the PrivSector.I think it would be good for both sides.In fact I would like to see a much tougher line taken with the private sector for their sins

Gun Control - Yes and No.I have a gun in my closet to protect my house(in the US).It never leaves the house.I like it this way.But if every scobe on the street is allowed to pack, then I might need more firepower to feel safe.Non-lethal alternatives could be the way forward.You can always murder the intruder with your bare hands once you've incapacitated him........ or at least torture him.

Whats needed more than a Right Wing party is a swift military coup d'etat, with immediate house-cleaning and abolition of existent parties and creation of new ones, with as swift a return to democratic process as possible,after making the necessary structural changes to our system of government.

We could model ourselves a bit more on those cute Swiss hoors.How did they survive not joining the EU?Why can't we do likewise?

We can tell the EU that we just had another vote on Lisbon and it was Nos out the yinyang again and if they don't like it,feck off.What are they going to do about it?Those clowns are one Bosnian radical away from a Third World War.

26-08-2010 02:43AM

I would definatley support a right wing party in this country.. As it has been said I would not support a racist organisation but I do beleive that a right wing party would benefit this bul**** country

Jeboa Safari · 26-08-2010 02:45AM

I'd like to see a moderate right wing party. I'd support the introduction of the death penalty for certain cases, like pedophiles. Hard labour for other long term criminals instead of all the right and nonsense they get now. A complete crackdown on repeat offenders. I can't understand how people are free to run up 40-50 convictions and still be out running up more. Regarding immigration, I'd like to see some tightening up of it, like not letting foreign people with criminal records in here. And people here illegally to be deported quickly, instead of the endless appeals process which saw assylum protesting about being moved from Mosney, I find it a joke that people here illegally were protesting about free accomodation. On the cracking down on protests, don't mind people protesting to a certain extent, but I'd like to see those shell to sea campaigners and their type dealt with properly and fairly quickly.

On the other hand I'd like to see drugs legislation, and I think a right wing party would be against that.

Misanthrope · 26-08-2010 03:14AM

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

I'd like to see a moderate right wing party. I'd support the introduction of the death penalty for certain cases, like pedophiles. Hard labour for other long term criminals instead of all the right and nonsense they get now. A complete crackdown on repeat offenders. I can't understand how people are free to run up 40-50 convictions and still be out running up more. Regarding immigration, I'd like to see some tightening up of it, like not letting foreign people with criminal records in here. And people here illegally to be deported quickly, instead of the endless appeals process which saw assylum protesting about being moved from Mosney, I find it a joke that people here illegally were protesting about free accomodation. On the cracking down on protests, don't mind people protesting to a certain extent, but I'd like to see those shell to sea campaigners and their type dealt with properly and fairly quickly.

On the other hand I'd like to see drugs legislation, and I think a right wing party would be against that.

I second most of that.

Protesters though are merely frustrated individuals with no power to change circumstances for better or worse.Negotiating with them would be far more productive than squishing them or as we currently do,ignore them.

Give them an organised forum (not a court) to present their case in a logical structured way instead of waving silly placards.This could get unions to the bargaining table a lot quicker.The sight of a protest,picket or strike only has negative connotations for most people,even the participant.

Since you brought up Shell,I'd like to add that we need to assume nationalised control of our natural resources.Selling out like Nigeria does little for us.There are countries with established nationalised oil companies who could assist us.Mr Chavez of Venezuela could be approached,as could Mr Morales of Bolivia,though perhaps not by some gun toting looney from Tipperary this time.

leinsterrugby · 26-08-2010 04:33AM

yes a country where those of us with money(and create wealth) aren't screwed to support vermin would be ideal. never happen here in a country where finna fail are considered right wing.

as has been suggested the dumb dumbs from the scumbag areas are likely to vote for the wrong type of right wing party.

Dave! · 26-08-2010 05:25AM

err, no

I'll be voting for Dev thank you very much

Overheal · 26-08-2010 05:28AM

The Irish definition of Right wing is still Left wing.

Sad, but true.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 26-08-2010 06:47AM

flag123 wrote: »

Probably will happen in a few years seeing that you need a strong economy for the extreme liberals to leach off whiles talking their boring, unoriginal views.:p

So that's a "Hell, yeah!" then?:D

Overheal wrote: »

The Irish definition of Right wing is still Left wing.

Sad, but true.

It only appears that way because in America the definition of left wing is still right wing. Sad, as you saz, but true.

Links234 · 27-08-2010 02:04AM

no way!

The Volt · 27-08-2010 02:07AM

Never in a million years. I'd sooner chew off my own foot.

Cavehill Red · 27-08-2010 02:07AM

phantom_lord wrote: »

I'd love a right libertarian party. But ireland is too full of pinkos for it to happen.

Hmm, yes.
The only country in Europe never to have elected any sort of left-wing government in its entire history is clearly rammed to the rafters with communists.

The Volt · 27-08-2010 02:15AM

Bobcyclesfast wrote: »

Well this country is a democracy. I'd love to see this happen. A kick in the gut to the labour party and greens.

It wouldn't be a democracy for long if this happened. Sounds like you're quite against the idea of democracy yourself.

Dudess · 27-08-2010 02:15AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Hmm, yes.
The only country in Europe never to have elected any sort of left-wing government in its entire history is clearly rammed to the rafters with communists.

Heh, I know - Ireland "too full of pinkos" my hole (although I don't think it's the bastion of super conservatism some deem it to be any more either). This is the typical kinda unfounded sh1te people who use the term "liberal" as an insult come up with. Total lack of thinking.
I wouldn't vote for a party as described in the OP (surprise!) but if anyone did and they were able to come up with well-thought-out reasons (and no mention of the "PC brigade") hats off to them. The latter is rare though - that said, there can be some awful sh1te from the far left too.

Plautus · 27-08-2010 02:20AM

Love the death penalty for both paedos and Seanie Fitzpatrick. Such an equivalence!

Good luck trying to cast off the jurisdiction of the ECHR and Council of Europe so as to bring it back in though.

like not letting foreign people with criminal records in here

Careful there. In some countries membership of a political opposition party is a criminal offence. Amongst other things that aren't anathema to Irish society.

That and non-refoulement. Yeah, we'll send a guy back into a genocidal warzone because he stole a loaf of bread at some stage

The people in Mosney aren't allowed to work, by the way, and if that's the case - and if we also agree it's a Good Thing (TM) to permit refugees and asylum seekers hailing from areas of severe persecution (customary international law says this is an obligation of ours) - then we have to square the circle somehow. That means providing accommodation for them. I'm sure lots of asylum seekers would be happy to work, pay taxes and live in their own homes. They can't though. By all accounts, the freedom of movement afforded to asylum seekers is very little in practice. The allowance for them is somewhere in the region of 20 euro a week. Won't be getting too many days out on that.

don't mind people protesting to a certain extent

Really great that we have your permission to exercise our constitutional right to assemble. God forbid you should disapprove of what we were protesting about or thought we were stupid! *shock*

If you're referring to specific acts of obstruction/nuisance not within the remit of lawful protest and assembly carried out by the Shell to Sea the group then it's more adroit to say you're against that, rather than protest. Jesus.

Jeboa Safari · 27-08-2010 02:21AM

Voltwad wrote: »

It wouldn't be a democracy for long if this happened. Sounds like you're quite against the idea of democracy yourself.

How would it not be. Just because a party has right wing policies doesn't mean you'd one day wake up to find we're living in a fascist dictatorship.

The problem I think is that people hear right wing parties and policies and immediately associate them with the extremist right wing groups. Also, any comment against the behaviour of say travellers gets you labeled as racist.

Plautus · 27-08-2010 02:25AM

Eh ... let's be fair here:

Yes hardline conservative goverment: Cut down on social welfare, labour camps instead of prisons, death sentence and much longer sentences for scumbags from housing estates and the travelling "community" (really a pack of filty savages), no more marraige carry on for gays, no abortions, no quangos, and the dissolution of the green party.

In order to bring in the second and third item he'd have to derogate from the institutional frameworks of human rights Ireland and the rest of Europe decided were a good idea back in 1950, he proposes to socially profile people for the purposes of sentencing which is, again, wholly without regard to due process (a critical underpinning of democratic society under the rule of law), apparently gays don't deserve equal rights, he seems to think we presently have abortion, isn't clear about what a quango is (but if he's referring to Dail committee he'd have to work out how he'd eliminate committee stage from the passage of primary legislation, the work of several auditing committees for expenses etc.) and then the dissolution of a political grouping he hates, presumably by force of law.

Yeah. Great lover of democracy there.

Jeboa Safari · 27-08-2010 02:37AM

In my opinion pedophiles, rapists and murderers shouldn't have rights, they should be stripped from them when they decided to commit the crimes. In most cases anyway. Its a disgrace some of the scumbags allowed back into society.

Plautus · 27-08-2010 02:45AM

In most cases anyway.

This caveat envisages situations where you feel people who commit these crimes have not forfeited all rights.

Who qualifies not to be stripped of all their rights if they have committed these crimes? It's just two things: a.) the framers of the system we have may already have considered a 'kill/maim/torture all the scum' modus operandi (it was called outlawry) and b.) considered it to lead to some pretty repugnant miscarriages of justice/saw it as being incapable of being equitably applied to all cases equally/inveigled the state into being a perpetrator of the same crimes as those it was prosecuting, even by cop.

It's just you seem to shy away from a rigid system even as you utter support for it. I think that's because even you have reservations. Quite rightly so.

boardgirl · 27-08-2010 02:55AM

what so crap like this can go on?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq1PWz5EUL4

Pdfile · 27-08-2010 02:56AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

A question.

Based on some of the replies to some of the more emotional topics in AH, I'm beginning to think a strong right-wing party would get some votes around here, possibly even seats in government. Also, the way some people throw around the word 'liberal' as if it were some sort of generic insult leads me to believe that conservatism is on the rise.

Now I'm not talking extreme neo-right wing like the Nazis, but a party that would campaign for bringing back the death penalty for serious crimes, introduction of labour camps, extremly strict immigration policies, possibly even cracking down on protests (all of them - public sector and general political protests).

Would you put your moey where your mouth is? Woudl you vote for them? Would you like to see such a party forming part of a coalition in Irish government? Could you see it happening?

Would you be willing to put up with harsher economic times to see it happen?

if you take AH srsly your better off in the mustard forum.

Jeboa Safari · 27-08-2010 03:02AM

Plautus wrote: »

This caveat envisages situations where you feel people who commit these crimes have not forfeited all rights.

Who qualifies not to be stripped of all their rights if they have committed these crimes? It's just two things: a.) the framers of the system we have may already have considered a 'kill/maim/torture all the scum' modus operandi (it was called outlawry) and b.) considered it to lead to some pretty repugnant miscarriages of justice/saw it as being incapable of being equitably applied to all cases equally/inveigled the state into being a perpetrator of the same crimes as those it was prosecuting, even by cop.

It's just you seem to shy away from a rigid system even as you utter support for it. I think that's because even you have reservations. Quite rightly so.

Not 100% sure if I understand what your saying. But I think serial pedophiles, murders and rapists should be automatically stripped of their rights and I would have no problem putting them to death. Then at the discression of the judge what penalty to hand down, depending on the seriousness of the crime for other cases.

Plautus · 27-08-2010 03:06AM

So ... they must have been convicted of numerous instances of the same crime to lose all rights? What if it's the first offence? Will remorse help their case? Will you make provision for temporary insanity/loss of capacity? Do you vouch infallibility in the criminal justice system to be able to determine guilt with such certainty that an irreversible penalty such as death (in the event of the conviction being quashed or overturned we can't bring the person back) may be used? You eliminate all prospect of repentance, change and rehabilitation in all cases? (99% is not good enough in criminal justice, nor are hunches that nobody ever repents or is rehabilitated - 100% or broke)

And what rights do they get to keep if they're of the select group of murderers/rapists who you feel shouldn't have all their rights waived. A right to bodily integrity - that is to say other prisoners can't harm or kill them, they're entitled to food, water and shelter etc.?

If it seems obtuse, it's because the point I'm angling at here is that the system preserves some of the rights of all convicted murderers and rapists at present because that's the only thing that's fair in an error-prone system that's also trying to be humane and not on the same level as the offences it has to deal with.

Jeboa Safari · 27-08-2010 03:37AM

So ... they must have been convicted of numerous instances of the same crime to lose all rights?

If they have been convicted of numerous instances of the same crime, yes.

What if it's the first offence?

Let the judge decide depending on the seriousness of the crime.

Will remorse help their case?

No. Personally I wouldn't have sympathy for a child rapist, whether he showed remourse or not. Can't change what they did to the child.

Will you make provision for temporary insanity/loss of capacity?

No, unless it can be proven they were drugged up by someone else or something like that. Tempory insanity sounds like a stupid excuse for a serial rapist or murderer or whatever. They're clearly a threat if they can temporarily flip out and kill people.

Do you vouch infallibility in the criminal justice system to be able to determine guilt with such certainty that an irreversible penalty such as death (in the event of the conviction being quashed or overturned we can't bring the person back) may be used?

Yes.

You eliminate all prospect of repentance, change and rehabilitation in all cases? (99% is not good enough in criminal justice, nor are hunches that nobody ever repents or is rehabilitated - 100% or broke)

In these cases, yes. I'd rather be 100% certain of them not committing the crime again, rather than take a chance that they might be cured.

And what rights do they get to keep if they're of the select group of murderers/rapists who you feel shouldn't have all their rights waived. A right to bodily integrity - that is to say other prisoners can't harm or kill them, they're entitled to food, water and shelter etc.?

They'd be given enough to survive.

From your earlier post, only saw it now..

Careful there. In some countries membership of a political opposition party is a criminal offence. Amongst other things that aren't anathema to Irish society.

That and non-refoulement. Yeah, we'll send a guy back into a genocidal warzone because he stole a loaf of bread at some stage

And that could be looked at in an individual countries case.

The people in Mosney aren't allowed to work, by the way, and if that's the case - and if we also agree it's a Good Thing (TM) to permit refugees and asylum seekers hailing from areas of severe persecution (customary international law says this is an obligation of ours) - then we have to square the circle somehow. That means providing accommodation for them. I'm sure lots of asylum seekers would be happy to work, pay taxes and live in their own homes. They can't though. By all accounts, the freedom of movement afforded to asylum seekers is very little in practice. The allowance for them is somewhere in the region of 20 euro a week. Won't be getting too many days out on that.

They probably would, but the whole process should be sped up, and the endless appeals process we have now should be done away with. If they're deemed not allowed to stay here by the courts, that should be it. Also I find it hard to understand how the ones at Mosney had to gall to protest at being moved to different accomodation. If they're in fear of their lives at home you'd think that what part of the country they stay in would be low on their list of worries.

Really great that we have your permission to exercise our constitutional right to assemble. God forbid you should disapprove of what we were protesting about or thought we were stupid! *shock*

If you're referring to specific acts of obstruction/nuisance not within the remit of lawful protest and assembly carried out by the Shell to Sea the group then it's more adroit to say you're against that, rather than protest. Jesus.

The op asked about a crackdown on protests, no need for the stupid response. Fine, I'm against shell to sea type obstruction/nuisance then, instead of protest. Sorry for not putting that down perfectly.

Jesus Juice · 27-08-2010 03:47AM

Yes! And kids who don't pay attention in school can go to a camp for concentration,Concentration Camp.......oh....ok, yeah no....

HavingCrack · 27-08-2010 12:13PM

Misanthrope wrote: »

.

Since you brought up Shell,I'd like to add that we need to assume nationalised control of our natural resources.Selling out like Nigeria does little for us.There are countries with established nationalised oil companies who could assist us.Mr Chavez of Venezuela could be approached,as could Mr Morales of Bolivia,though perhaps not by some gun toting looney from Tipperary this time.

Chavez and Morales are both quite left wing socialists. Nationalisation of natural resources is traditionally seen as a left wing policy rather than a conservative one so I can't imagine any right wing party taking advice from socialists can you?

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

In my opinion pedophiles, rapists and murderers shouldn't have rights, they should be stripped from them when they decided to commit the crimes. In most cases anyway. Its a disgrace some of the scumbags allowed back into society.

At what level of crime do you think its acceptable to strip a persons rights from them so? It's a slippery slope from no rights to murderers down to muggers down to taggers and onto road traffic offences. You might think I'm being over the top here but I could really see this happen. What happens if a murder is an accident a la manslaughter? Shoudl these peopel be stripped of their rights as well? What happens if a woman makes a false accusation against a man in a rpae case and he's wrongly convicted? Is he suddenly open to being attacked and killed in prison because he doesn't deserve any rights??

Strong right wing party: would you vote for them?

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