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What is the fate of the Mark 3's?

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    #182
    Stonewolf
    Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭Stonewolf


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Until a serious accident related to wear and tear happens.

    The MkIIIs still have a good bit of life left in them, they were designed to operate for decades with occasional refits. Said refits are much cheaper than buying in new stock.


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    #183
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,481 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Stonewolf wrote: »
    The MkIIIs still have a good bit of life left in them, they were designed to operate for decades with occasional refits. Said refits are much cheaper than buying in new stock.

    +1, just look at the UK stock


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    #184
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,323 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    lord lucan wrote: »
    I don't see the need for an hourly service myself. Since the Malahide Viaduct collapse and with continued security alerts on the line the demand for the Enterprise has dropped dramatically. I've used it a few times this year and it's been poorly patronised. Journey time is too slow and it's quite expensive in comparison with the bus.
    Not hourly, not yet. But the existing timetable could do with being beefed up, e.g. arriving in each city before 9am. Running more services would mean you could have fewer stops per service. Of course, having the slots / passing ability is another matter.
    Of all the services in the country that could do with the spare MKIII's it's not the Enterprise imo. Stick them on the Galway roster where bus substitutions are becoming commonplace due to overcrowding on the Westport services.
    There is scope to have a few sets strategicly placed and/or others to cover peak duties.


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    #185
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Until a serious accident related to wear and tear happens.

    In railway terms the MkIIIs have years of life left in them - I'm not suggesting they be dragged out of the sidings where they are 'dumped' and put back into service without overhaul. No private company could afford to waste scarce resources the way CIE/IE do, and you are cutting own throats by so doing as the day of reckoning is fast approaching for what's left of the semi-state sector.


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    #186
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    ....as the day of reckoning is fast approaching for what's left of the semi-state sector.

    Still? It's been approaching for decades now :p


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    #187
    Stonewolf
    Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭Stonewolf


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Still? It's been approaching for decades now :p

    We're not there yet, but we're getting there ...


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    #188
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,326 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    As I have said before, the big barrier is a rebuilding facility. Inchicore is gone. If you were to build one you'd need steady work from NIR and IE, maybe doing warranty work for CAF and ROTEM. Somewhere rail connected but with cheap land. Somewhere like Mullingar (connecting the Moate-Athlone track as a spur to the facility).

    You could send them abroad but that's a hassle and no guarantee they won't be wrecked on the way back like the 22Ks.

    By the way - the Information Minister tells the BT that
    They are air-conditioned, but they don't have the modern comfort standards passengers expect.

    "We've never done this before. In the past we ran them until they couldn't be run any more, apart from a couple which went to heritage railways."
    but tells the IT
    “We are examining both options currently to see how we can best deliver a quality hourly service.
    Little Chief speak out of both sides of mouth again...


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    #189
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Still? It's been approaching for decades now :p

    Wel they are coming for you - the household silver is long gone (Aer Lingus, the Irish Sugar Company, Telecom Eireann, Great Southern Hotels etc) and now its time for the odds and ends. :p


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    #190
    lord lucan
    Registered Users Posts: 9,575 ✭✭✭lord lucan


    Victor wrote: »
    Not hourly, not yet. But the existing timetable could do with being beefed up, e.g. arriving in each city before 9am. Running more services would mean you could have fewer stops per service. Of course, having the slots / passing ability is another matter.

    That's a debate for another day but yeah,finding the room on the Northern Line is the great conundrum. Hourly services are only a pipe dream for the foreseeable future imo.


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    #191
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    Stonewolf wrote: »
    We're not there yet, but we're getting there ...

    .....A lot done, More to do - we shouldn't hold our breath re privatisation ! :)


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    #192
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    I genuinely don't see privatisation happening tbh.

    If it does this forum will explode because a private operator will close half the lines in the country within 6 months of taking over :pac:


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    #193
    lord lucan
    Registered Users Posts: 9,575 ✭✭✭lord lucan


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    I genuinely don't see privatisation happening tbh.

    If it does this forum will explode because a private operator will close half the lines in the country within 6 months of taking over :pac:

    Spot on. Outside of Dublin-Cork & Dublin-Belfast i can't see any private operator having any interest in any other line. The rest of the network would either close or still end up being Government run and subsidised to bits.


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    #194
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Well, the last time there was any real interest in a private company coming in was when Virgin wanted to buy the Cork-Dublin line in the 90's because it is the only really profitable one. Or so the story goes.

    Think it'll be an all or nothing situation if it is going to happen. The network is too small in the grander scheme of things to be able to justify carving it into pieces.


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    #195
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    I genuinely don't see privatisation happening tbh.

    If it does this forum will explode because a private operator will close half the lines in the country within 6 months of taking over :pac:

    A private operator will only be an operator no doubt. The EU idea is to seperate ownership and maintenance of the railway from operating, so tenders would be sought for the less profitable lines which would include a subsidy payable to operate them where applicable.


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    #196
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Well, the last time there was any real interest in a private company coming in was when Virgin wanted to buy the Cork-Dublin line in the 90's because it is the only really profitable one. Or so the story goes.

    Think it'll be an all or nothing situation if it is going to happen. The network is too small in the grander scheme of things to be able to justify carving it into pieces.

    Well, given that it no longer serves any real purpose, outside the Greater Dublin area, it might as well be closed down. The money could be better spent on hospitals, schools, special needs assistants etc and as the late Todd Andrews said you could put the passengers on a few Greyhound buses.


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    #197
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Well, given that it no longer serves any real purpose, outside the Greater Dublin area, it might as well be closed down.

    Yes. Nothing exists outside The Pale so why would anyone want to go anywhere outside of there :rolleyes:


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    #198
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Yes. Nothing exists outside The Pale so why would anyone want to go anywhere outside of there :rolleyes:

    Buses and private cars? I live outside the Pale but now use the bus more than the train as it is more frequent, more comfy and considerably cheaper.


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    #199
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Buses and private cars? I live outside the Pale but now use the bus more than the train as it is more frequent, more comfy and considerably cheaper.

    These things have existed for quite some time now and yet people still use the train. Amazing really.


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    #200
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    My main reason for continuing to travel by train is comfort, I hate the claustrophobic "boxed in" feeling of buses.


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    #201
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    These things have existed for quite some time now and yet people still use the train. Amazing really.

    Now you hit the nail on the head - it truly is amazing that anybody uses the train anymore and certainly no thanks to CIE/IE. In case you didn't notice there was a serious decline in inter-city traffic last year - I'll post the link when I find it. Here: http://www.cie.ie/about_us/chairmans_statement.asp Numbers down 13% in 2009 and worse to come this year.

    Yes, buses and cars have been about for quite some time now but have you noticed that there has been a massive improvement in the road network and rail journey times are no longer competitive?


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    #202
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    The press, the machine, the railway, the telegraph are premises whose thousand-year conclusion no one has yet dared to draw.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    You can't beat the comfort of travel by train, have a meal, a drink and go to the bog - all without stopping ! God bless those 19th century engineers ! :D


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    #203
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    steamengine wrote: »
    The press, the machine, the railway, the telegraph are premises whose thousand-year conclusion no one has yet dared to draw.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    You can't beat the comfort of travel by train, have a meal, a drink and go to the bog - all without stopping ! God bless those 19th century engineers ! :D

    What trains are you travelling on? Have a meal, a drink (at €5.65 for a tin of beer) - yeah right.
    417.gif

    I think you have been watching too many steam train videos. :D

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQNPo4OEi6g


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    #204
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    Not quite as posh as that enjoyable video, but as a kid managed a few trips on the Enterprise in 1st class. Corridor compartment coach interiors were practically the same as below. Don't think any of our provincial buses are up to this standard. Must admit steam does affect my head alright ! ;) ps ......and your's too !!!


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    #205
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Now you hit the nail on the head - it truly is amazing that anybody uses the train anymore and certainly no thanks to CIE/IE. In case you didn't notice there was a serious decline in inter-city traffic last year - I'll post the link when I find it. Here: http://www.cie.ie/about_us/chairmans_statement.asp Numbers down 13% in 2009 and worse to come this year.

    Yes, buses and cars have been about for quite some time now but have you noticed that there has been a massive improvement in the road network and rail journey times are no longer competitive?

    and nor are the prices. You can drive from my home to Dublin cheaper than you can take the train from the railhead 12 miles away. no brainer isnt it!


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    #206
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    Road v Rail - an old CIE ad from the 70's ;)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po_I7tFEL-8&p=3783F979D354BEFD&playnext=1&index=36


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    #207
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    corktina wrote: »
    and nor are the prices. You can drive from my home to Dublin cheaper than you can take the train from the railhead 12 miles away. no brainer isnt it!
    and if you are in a car you can bring 4 others with you for a small bit more. a massive saving compared with the train.


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    #208
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,481 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    and if you are in a car you can bring 4 others with you for a small bit more. a massive saving compared with the train.

    especially if they pay you fuel money ;)


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    #209
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    Rud wrote: »
    how much would it be to buy a single mk3 open coach without bogies?

    Beat you to it - my mark 3 :D


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    #210
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    steamengine wrote: »
    Road v Rail - an old CIE ad from the 70's ;)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po_I7tFEL-8&p=3783F979D354BEFD&playnext=1&index=36
    The problem for IE (not that they didn't see it coming) is that the road network is now anything but 1970's wherease their timings still are (or worse!).

    IE WASTED a LOT of money in buying the 201 class AND the MkIVs AND scrapping the perfectly servicable and indeed respected MKIIIs. They should have put that money into 2 things:

    1) rebuilding (including down to foundations where neccessary) the Cork-Dublin line to deliver a MINIMUM 100mph through but preferably 125mph running all the way.

    2) investing in a fleet of locos that were capable of actually going faster than the ones they bought in the 1960s!! (201 class is rated for 100mph, same as the 071 though apparently the 071s can actually go faster in practice) Should be seeing MKIIIs hauled at 125 mph today on Cork-Dublin

    They instead took that money and blew it on flashy new carriages, painting the 201s silver and paying Craig Doyle to tell us all how great it is! Well guess what, it isn't great. It's sh!t. Irish Rail are muppets who are incapable of running a railway.

    So we are scrapping 125mph capable coaches, buying new 125mph capable coaches and attaching them to locos that go a bit slower than locos which first ran 40 years ago. Marvellous progress. IE will have killed off the IC network completely in a few short years if left alone to it.


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    #211
    kc56
    Registered Users Posts: 432 ✭✭kc56


    murphaph wrote: »


    2) investing in a fleet of locos that were capable of actually going faster than the ones they bought in the 1960s!! (201 class is rated for 100mph, same as the 071 though apparently the 071s can actually go faster in practice) Should be seeing MKIIIs hauled at 125 mph today on Cork-Dublin

    60's locos, 001,121,141,181's max 75mph
    70's locos, 071's, max 90mph


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