Not another 911 thread

Bog Warrior · 16-08-2010 01:41PM

beans wrote: »

The 'September Clues' video presents a lot of false claims as the truth (eg the 'nose out' bit), so I don't value it much, but it's an interesting watch all the same.

The most interesting unexplained aspects of the footage to me is the anomalous object on the belly of the second plane to hit the towers. Does anyone have a good theory to explain it, because such a bump shouldn't be there on a normal passenger craft, as far as I know.

Looks like the kind of bump you might see on a plane with lots of radar capabilities to me.

I have seen US military people in other videos convinced that it looks just like a remote control system they use.

16-08-2010 01:51PM

Bog Warrior wrote: »

I maintain that the black box is more likely to survive any crash than a passport.

And which is more likely to be found? Something that has been blow away from the collapse or something buried under a skyscrapers worth of wreckage?

Bog Warrior wrote: »

I have seen US military people in other videos convinced that it looks just like a remote control system they use.

Can you post pictures of this remote control system? Beyond the obviously compressed and fuzzy picture above from which there is no way to see details?

Or are you just accepting everything you are told?

beans · 16-08-2010 01:54PM

Bog Warrior wrote: »

I have seen US military people in other videos convinced that it looks just like a remote control system they use.

That's what I was thinking, too. The idea it's there at all is given a good going-over in the link above from alastair. Unsure myself, but hey that's half the fun

I do think there are strange things about the footage on 911 like vanishing backgrounds...

I thought that was a clear give-away myself, until I thought about it. A wide-angle shot of the towers from the chopper may show the background, whereas a tight-angle shot from further away, while keeping the towers in the same perspective, would show only sky. I presume it's the shot of the plane hitting tower 2 from frame-right you're referring to...

As an aside, I watched the BBC footage from that morning the other night, it's hilarious - the anchor doesn't see the second plane hit, for a loooong time, and they miss the tower coming down, too

A good example of how not to cover a live situation, IMO - your audience knows more than your achorwoman, great stuff.

nullzero · 16-08-2010 01:58PM

alastair wrote: »

Just curious - you have problems with paper surviving the crash, or you have problems with all the plane debris found in the area because the 'truth is there wasn't a plane - but a secret technology ball fired at the building'? Just need to know which flavour of delusion is at play here.

You're putting words in my mouth there.
I have never posted hare that I believe 9-11 was casued by a mysterious fireball.
The problem I have with the passport thing is that we were told that the passports of the terrorists were found in the debris. Surely those passports would have been on board the planes, the planes that exploded in a fireball.
I see plenty of sceptics on here lecturing people on logic and basic scientific methodology, can you please explain to me how a passport could survive the type of tempratures a exploding plane would produce and float down and land perfectly in the debris?
As I recall the story was shown to be false by the main stream media that reported it.

To me discussing 9-11 is akin to banging ones head aginst a wall, at least on this forum anyway.
I regret posting here, I really should have known better.

alastair · 16-08-2010 02:11PM

nullzero wrote: »

You're putting words in my mouth there.

I am? Because it looks like a question to me.

alastair · 16-08-2010 02:13PM

nullzero wrote: »

Surely those passports would have been on board the planes, the planes that exploded in a fireball.

Yes they were.

nullzero wrote: »

I see plenty of sceptics on here lecturing people on logic and basic scientific methodology, can you please explain to me how a passport could survive the type of tempratures a exploding plane would produce and float down and land perfectly in the debris?

No great mystery to it - they were thrown clear of the fire.

nullzero wrote: »

As I recall the story was shown to be false by the main stream media that reported it.

Nope.

Bog Warrior · 16-08-2010 02:16PM

King Mob wrote: »

And which is more likely to be found? Something that has been blow away from the collapse or something buried under a skyscrapers worth of wreckage?

Can you post pictures of this remote control system? Beyond the obviously compressed and fuzzy picture above from which there is no way to see details?

Or are you just accepting everything you are told?

There is a lot of supposition in the logic that a passport likely to be inside someone's pocket or bag would be "blown away" before it could be burned. I believe that a black box is more likely to be found than a passport.

You are misunderstanding. I relayed what I have seen in other videos. I don't try to substantiate it. I am telling of another theory I have heard of. Go and research that if you want to. Please try to understand my posts.

nullzero · 16-08-2010 02:45PM

alastair wrote: »

No great mystery to it - they were thrown clear of the fire.

I'm out, not wasting my time discussing this any further, that has to be one of the most ludicrous statements I've ever read.

nullzero · 16-08-2010 02:46PM

alastair wrote: »

I am? Because it looks like a question to me.

Yes you were, you were supposing that I believed a magic fireball caused the 9-11 attacks, I never said that, thusly you were putting words in my mouth.

alastair · 16-08-2010 02:46PM

nullzero wrote: »

I'm out, not wasting my time discussing this any further, that has to be one of the most ludicrous statements I've ever read.

Sorry for that - elementary physics work for most people.

WTCAircraftDebrisAALifeVest.tiff

alastair · 16-08-2010 02:48PM

nullzero wrote: »

Yes you were, you were supposing that I believed a magic fireball caused the 9-11 attacks, I never said that, thusly you were putting words in my mouth.

I was supposing nothing - I asked a question - clearly because I didn't know what you believed. I'll add written comprehension to elementary physics as areas you've difficulty with.

nullzero · 16-08-2010 02:51PM

alastair wrote: »

Sorry for that - elementary physics work for most people.

You're having a laugh aren't you?
What is it with sceptics and being condescending?
If a "CTer" claimed that a passport survived the 9-11 attacks you'd be saying it's impossible.
You put a passport in a fireball inside a plane, it's not coming out as a passport, it's coming out as the burnt remnants of a passport.

You're just arguing the point because you feel it proves your point.
Sometimes you have to use logic, and as you're so keen to point out elementary physics.

I don't mind you having a differing opinion to me, but don't you dare to ever speak down your nose to me my friend.

nullzero · 16-08-2010 02:52PM

alastair wrote: »

I was supposing nothing - I asked a question - clearly because I didn't know what you believed. I'll add written comprehension to elementary physics as areas you've difficulty with.

You don't know what I believe.
thats the very point I was making.
You ASSSUMED I believed something.
I don't believe what you're saying I believe.
Your post made the assumption that I believed in magic fireballs.

You should think befoe you post Alastair.

alastair · 16-08-2010 02:58PM

nullzero wrote: »

You don't know what I believe.
thats the very point I was making.
You ASSSUMED I believed something.
I don't believe what you're saying I believe.
Your post made the assumption that I believed in magic fireballs.

Like I say - written comprehension clearly isn't your forte. Why not toddle off and figure out where you started to started getting the distinction between questions and statements arse-backwards?

alastair · 16-08-2010 03:01PM

nullzero wrote: »

You put a passport in a fireball inside a plane, it's not coming out as a passport, it's coming out as the burnt remnants of a passport.

As a matter of fact is was burned, but the details were all still readable (on the WTC one). I suppose that life-vest is a figment of my imagination too then? After all - it couldn't possibly survive the impact eh?

nullzero · 16-08-2010 03:04PM

alastair wrote: »

As a matter of fact is was burned, but the details were all still readable (on the WTC one). I suppose that life-vest is a figment of my imagination too then? After all - it couldn't possibly survive the impact eh?

The passport in question was proved to not belong to the hijacker it was claimed to belong to.
This is old news.

alastair · 16-08-2010 03:05PM

nullzero wrote: »

Care to say that to my face?

yeah yeah very impressive - try and channel that energy into using an ounce of reasoning eh?

nullzero · 16-08-2010 03:06PM

alastair wrote: »

Like I say - written comprehension clearly isn't your forte. Why not toddle off and figure out where you started to started getting the distinction between questions and statements arse-backwards?

Alastair, you're beginning to lose the run of yourself.
Would you say that to my face? I doubt it. Why say it here?

alastair · 16-08-2010 03:07PM

nullzero wrote: »

The passport in question was proved to not belong to the hijacker it was claimed to belong to.
This is old news.

Rubbish - care to back up that up?

Meanwhile: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satam_al-Suqami

nullzero · 16-08-2010 03:13PM

alastair wrote: »

Rubbish - care to back up that up?

Meanwhile: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satam_al-Suqami

I doubt you'd entertain my sources.

nullzero · 16-08-2010 03:14PM

alastair wrote: »

yeah yeah very impressive - try and channel that energy into using an ounce of reasoning eh?

Try having a discussion without resorting to insults.

humanji · 16-08-2010 03:14PM

Alastair and Nullzero, discuss the topic politely or don't post in this thread.

alastair · 16-08-2010 03:16PM

nullzero wrote: »

I doubt you'd entertain my sources.

You might be right there. But feel free to try.

Di0genes · 16-08-2010 03:18PM

alastair wrote: »

As a matter of fact is was burned, but the details were all still readable (on the WTC one). I suppose that life-vest is a figment of my imagination too then? After all - it couldn't possibly survive the impact eh?

Orange County, CA., Sept. 11 - Lisa Anne Frost was 22 and had just graduated from Boston University in May 2001 with two degrees and multiple academic and service honors. She had worked all summer in Boston before coming home, finally, to California to start her new life. The Rancho Santa Margarita woman was on United Flight 175 on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, when it became the second plane to slam into the World Trade Center...

Her parents, Tom and Melanie Frost, have spent two years knowing they will never understand why.

A few days before the first anniversary of our daughter's murder, we were notified that they had found a piece of her in the piles and piles of gritty rubble of the World Trade Center that had been hauled out to Staten Island. It was Lisa's way, we believe, of telling us she wasn't lost.

In February, the day of the Columbia tragedy, we got word they'd found her United Airlines Mileage Plus card. It was found very near where they'd found a piece of her right hip. We imagine that she used the card early on the morning of Sept. 11 to get on the plane and just stuck it in her back pocket, probably her right back pocket, instead of in her purse. They have found no other personal effects".

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:tI2PQRqfJiIJ:www.msnbc.com/local/MYOC/M324557.asp

On Oct. 12, it arrived inside a second envelope at Mrs. Snyder's modest white house on Main Street here, and the instant she took it out and saw it, she says, ''chills just went over me.'' It was singed and crumpled. A chunk was ripped out, giving the bottom of the envelope she had sent the look of a jagged skyline. Mrs. Snyder's lyrical script had blurred into the scorched paper. The stamp, depicting a World War II sailor embracing a woman welcoming him home, was intact.

Along with the letter was a note: ''To whom it may concern. This was found floating around the street in downtown New York. I am sorry if you suffered any loss in this tragedy. Sincerely, a friend in New York!''

Since then, Mrs. Snyder, a customer service representative at a grocery store, has discovered that she has one of only two pieces of mail known to have been recovered from the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center. At least one auction house has contacted her, saying she could sell the letter for tens of thousands of dollars.

http://gk.nytimes.com/mem/gatekeeper.html?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/20/national/20LETT.html&OP=2edab88aQ2F-xQ3AO-wp5tDppJQ51-Q51))Q22-Q22Q51-Q51)-yQ3DJRpyQ3D6-Q51)hQ3EccfmJG6

My name is URL · 16-08-2010 03:19PM

alastair wrote: »

Rubbish - care to back up that up?

Meanwhile: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satam_al-Suqami

It just seems so unlikely that the only passport to be found belonged to a hijacker.. seriously, there's coincidence and then there's that.

nullzero · 16-08-2010 03:20PM

alastair wrote: »

You might be right there. But feel free to try.

I'm not going to waste my time.
You're free to have your beliefs, I'm not trying to make anyone believe anything.
We've been warned for the tone of the discussion already, I personally have had enough of being insulted by you. Should you see your way to apologising for your remarks I'll continue the discussion, until such a time I'm out.
It might also be a good idea for somebody who links to their business on this site through their profile to conduct themselves with some sort of dignity.

alastair · 16-08-2010 03:23PM

Michael Sheehan, a broker working on the 55th floor of 2 World Trade Center, moved to the stairwell when he realized a plane had crashed into 1 World Trade Center. By the time he reached the 25th floor, he could smell the fumes of fuel that had begun to filter through the ventilation systems of the two buildings.

On the street, standing in a shower of office paper and the siding from the building, he found a piece of paper. It was an airliner's itinerary, listing information about a flight from Boston to Los Angeles.

"I realized then that it was a commercial flight. Then the second plane hit. I realized then it was terror."

"...I noticed in the courtyard that there were valises, suitcases, strewn about the courtyard. There were wallets everywhere, broken glass, and then I noticed that there were airplane tickets." FDNY firefighter John Moribito

FDNY EMT Briam Smith: "So we went up to the 10-10 house...I remember there was life jackets everywhere, the yellow in-flight life jackets, and that the contrast of the yellow against all the gray, you know. It stood out."

16-08-2010 03:23PM

Bog Warrior wrote: »

There is a lot of supposition in the logic that a passport likely to be inside someone's pocket or bag would be "blown away" before it could be burned.

Not really. There are a hundred and one ways for it to get free and float away. Assuming that it even was in a bag or pocket in the first place.

Bog Warrior wrote: »

I believe that a black box is more likely to be found than a passport.

But the black box could only have been buried under the rubble. Whereas a passport would not necessarily be like wise buried.

The question remains, if the government went to all that bother of faking the passport and placing on the scene where it was found and so on, why didn't they just fake a blackbox? Or a destroyed blackbox that was unreadable?

Bog Warrior wrote: »

You are misunderstanding. I relayed what I have seen in other videos. I don't try to substantiate it. I am telling of another theory I have heard of. Go and research that if you want to. Please try to understand my posts.

So you have no idea if it's true or not, you're just relaying it?
Can you explain the difference between this and making stuff up?

alastair · 16-08-2010 03:26PM

nullzero wrote: »

I'm not going to waste my time.
You're free to have your beliefs, I'm not trying to make anyone believe anything.
We've been warned for the tone of the discussion already, I personally have had enough of being insulted by you. Should you see your way to apologising for your remarks I'll continue the discussion, until such a time I'm out.
It might also be a good idea for somebody who links to their business on this site theough their profile to conduct themselves with some sort of dignity.

I owe no apology for your inability to understand the distinction between a question and a statement. Should you wish to apologise for making a false accusation, then fire away. I've nothing to hide btw - anonimity might be your thing, but I've no problem in that regard. Oh, and thanks for caring.

Bog Warrior · 16-08-2010 03:38PM

King Mob wrote: »

But the black box could only have been buried under the rubble. Whereas a passport would not necessarily be like wise buried.

So why wasn't it found buried under the rubble?

King Mob wrote: »

So you have no idea if it's true or not, you're just relaying it?
Can you explain the difference between this and making stuff up?

Absolute nonsense I'm not getting involved in

Not another 911 thread

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