Cén fáth a raibh Gaeilge bhaintear as an ardán Dunlaoghaire? [Read edit in 1st post]

Run_to_da_hills · 14-08-2010 06:38PM

jahalpin wrote: »

Irish Rail probably put the notice in english only because they really don't want people to fall in front of the trains and almost 100% of the population and a high percentage of tourists understand english.

Only a tiny percentage of people use irish in any way and putting safety messages in irish is dangerous and is a complete waste of time and money

What gets me is that for the last century and a half there was nothing but granite flagstones at the edge of the platform. There was no written warnings telling people not to step beond lines, "not to fall off the edge" or "get too close" :rolleyes:

In those days it was worse, you were likely to get a clobber from an opening door on a Parkroyal or Craven. .

Have people become so stupid in the last decade that they now have to be told not to step too close to the edge of the platform?

Transportuser09 · 14-08-2010 06:39PM

mickydoomsux wrote: »

But what about the few asshole Gaeligoir-types who insist on wasting money on having everything translated into bog-talk?

How will they feel all smug and self satisfied if we dump this archaic nonsense from our public buildings?

It's not 'bog-talk', it's not wasteful either to embrace part of our national culture rather than have every country in the world shoe-horned into having everything in English. As I mentioned in another post, Scotland and Wales use bilingual signage(possibly the Manx as well, though I may be wrong) so it is clearly not just our own government that see's fit to do so. It allows for a sense of identity and uniqueness; there's nothing wrong with that.

LimeFruitGum · 14-08-2010 06:42PM

Ah sure, I work in DL and I see loads of signs with inaccurate or misspelled Irish on them. I remember seeing "bother donta" at a roadworks site in Georges's Street when the average kid knows it should be "bóthar dúnta" :-)
They'd never stand for that in Monkstown!:cool:

etchyed · 14-08-2010 06:45PM

Karsini wrote: »

I much prefer the way the DART does it - the RPA method makes it seem like a constant rolling commentary throughout the city centre.

IÉ's intercity stock also has full Irish and English announcements on the PIS. I think the Mk4s are the worst, it doesn't seem to go on as long in the 22Ks.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there should be Mk4 or 22k style announcements on DARTs, they're pointlessly long and I really don't like how the Irish has been translated in them. The announcements the DART has at present though are neither fish nor fowl. They sound ridiculous.

"This train is for Malahide, Mullach Íde. Next station Connolly Station, Stáisiúin Uí Conghaíle. Change here for blah blah blah... Please mind the gap between the train and the platform and have your ticket ready for inspection."

Look at how stupid that looks! Just throwing in a few placenames here and there. Pure tokenism. tbh I'd prefer there to be no Irish to that. Fortunately Irish Rail are gonna have to pull their finger out to comply with the Official Languages Act eventually.

etchyed · 14-08-2010 06:49PM

Transportuser09 wrote: »

It's not 'bog-talk', it's not wasteful either to embrace part of our national culture rather than have every country in the world shoe-horned into having everything in English. As I mentioned in another post, Scotland and Wales use bilingual signage(possibly the Manx as well, though I may be wrong) so it is clearly not just our own government that see's fit to do so. It allows for a sense of identity and uniqueness; there's nothing wrong with that.

Why are you even trying? The poster in question has obviously had some kind of negative experience with Irish and will never be for turning. Best to just ignore posts about 'bog-talk' or, as predicted, the thread will descend into a slanging match.

That username is already in use. · 14-08-2010 06:49PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Ok back on topic, Why have CIE wiped out the Irish translation of a platform warning on Dunlaoghaire Station?

Is this a new policy?

Official Languages Act.

A public body has a duty to ensure that signs placed by it or on its behalf within or outside the State are in Irish or bilingual.

a) The text in Irish shall appear first.
b) The text in Irish shall be as prominent, visible and legible as the
text in English.
c) The letters in the text in Irish shall not be smaller in size than the
letters in the text in English.
d) The text in Irish shall communicate the same information as the
text in English.
e) A word in the text in Irish shall not be abbreviated unless the
word in the text in English, of which it is the translation, is also
abbreviated.

Key dates for implementation of the Regulations

A. For new signs i.e. signs placed on any site on or after 1 March 2009 (whether in place of older signs or not) - 1 March 2009
B. For signs placed on any site before 1 March 2009 which would fulfil the requirements of these Regulations except there is an error in the Irish text - 1 March 2012

etchyed wrote: »

while the RPA has changed its PIS to provide full translations of all announcements, Irish Rail's are still fully in English save for the placenames.

Karsini wrote: »

I much prefer the way the DART does it - the RPA method makes it seem like a constant rolling commentary throughout the city centre.

IÉ's intercity stock also has full Irish and English announcements on the PIS. I think the Mk4s are the worst, it doesn't seem to go on as long in the 22Ks.

Irish Rail will have to upgrade their PIS on DARTs to be fully bilingual by July 2013.

Official Languages Act.

Public bodies have a duty to ensure that recorded oral announcements made by them or on their behalf are in Irish or bilingual by 1 July 2013.

What kinds of announcements?

2. Recorded oral announcements transmitted by a public address system for example recorded announcements such as a security warning in an airport, a train station or in any other public place.

Do public bodies have a duty to provide the same information in both official languages on recorded oral announcements?

It is implicit in the Regulations that the same information be provided in both official languages on recorded oral announcements when the provision is read in the context of the Regulations as a whole.

-Chris- · 14-08-2010 06:49PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

What gets me is that for the last century and a half there was nothing but granite flagstones at the edge of the platform. There was no written warnings telling people not to step beond lines, "not to fall off the edge" or "get too close" :rolleyes:

In those days it was worse, you were likely to get a clobber from an opening door on a Parkroyal or Craven. .

Have people become so stupid in the last decade that they now have to be told not to step too close to the edge of the platform?

That's what I love about the Luas, the tracks are at ground level and are easy to walk across. It's a form of transport that's integrated into the scenery and the fact that you can walk across it is a form of trust that really helps me to identify with it.

Lifelike · 14-08-2010 06:50PM

etchyed wrote: »

"This train is for Malahide, Mullach Íde. Next station Connolly Station, Stáisiúin Uí Conghaíle. Change here for blah blah blah... Please mind the gap between the train and the platform and have your ticket ready for inspection."

And of course "Bray, Bré".

-Chris- · 14-08-2010 06:51PM

etchyed wrote: »

Why are you even trying? The poster in question has obviously had some kind of negative experience with Irish and will never be for turning. Best to just ignore posts about 'bog-talk' or, as predicted, the thread will descend into a slanging match.

Yes please.

reeta · 14-08-2010 06:51PM

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Nach léir go bhfuil "Fan Taobh Líne Seo" míchruinn.

Ba cheart go ndéarfaí "Fan AR an Taobh SEO DEN Líne BUÍ"

Is contúirtí go mór míchrunneas ná easpa.

Such absolute rubbish !!!!!!!!!!!

highlydebased · 14-08-2010 06:58PM

Dia Dhiabh a dhuine Uaisela, chuir Iarnroid Eireann failte romhat ar bord. Seo e an traen o Luimneach go Staisuin Heuston, agus taimid ag freastal ar.....durlas...an teampeall mor...cilldara agus...stasiun heuston. Chuir ard (something) ar na fograi sabhailteachta ata ar an seirbhis seo. Na faighi suichan ata reamh airithe. Ta suil agam go bhfuil teastal compoirdeach againn (spelling of much is wrong)

What makes me laugh is that they have all these annoucements- and if you asked IE staff something in Irish they looks you'd probably get!

14-08-2010 07:01PM

I'd say that the absolute worst on the system must be when they put a 22K on Maynooth services. I was on one from Drumcondra to Connolly one morning and by the time the Irish arrival announcement had finished, the train was already at the station. I can't imagine what it must be like to do the whole trip in one. But what that says to me is, why are you putting intercity stock on a commuter route?

etchyed · 14-08-2010 07:04PM

That username is already in use. wrote: »

Irish Rail will have to upgrade their PIS on DARTs to be fully bilingual by July 2013.

Thanks, was wondering what the date was but was too lazy to look it up.

-Chris- · 14-08-2010 07:07PM

reeta wrote: »

Such absolute rubbish !!!!!!!!!!!

3 of your 5 posts so far are poinltess and mildly abusive/insulting. It might be ok in After Hours, but it's not that welcome here.

Can you try and be more constructive with your next post?

mickydoomsux · 14-08-2010 07:12PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Have people become so stupid in the last decade that they now have to be told not to step too close to the edge of the platform?

It got more to do with the 'sue at the drop of a hat' culture we live in now that costs IE a hell of a lot of money.

That username is already in use. · 14-08-2010 07:17PM

Neon-Circles wrote: »

Dia Dhiabh a dhuine Uaisela...

He also says something about a "Bar sneaceana"? I burst out laughing when I heard that :P

That username is already in use. · 14-08-2010 07:21PM

mickydoomsux wrote: »

It got more to do with the 'sue at the drop of a hat' culture we live in now that costs IE a hell of a lot of money.

If they don´t follow the new OLA regulations, they could be liable. Some unfortunate Gaeilgeoir may stumble off the platform and then sue because the warning wasn´t in Irish!

highlydebased · 14-08-2010 07:42PM

That username is already in use. wrote: »

He also says something about a "Bar sneaceana"? I burst out laughing when I heard that :P

Yeah- and theres Ceapairi and deochanna te agus fuar ar fhail!

foggy_lad · 14-08-2010 08:36PM

Neon-Circles wrote: »

Yeah- and theres Ceapairi and deochanna te agus fuar ar fhail!

Cold tea and crumpet?

That username is already in use. · 15-08-2010 01:46AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Cold tea and crumpet?

ceapairí means sandwiches. You might get some crumpets on the Enterprise.

Ceapairi and deochanna te agus fuar ar fhail
Sandwiches and hot and cold drinks available

Jayeire · 15-08-2010 04:01AM

Originally Posted by mickydoomsux

But what about the few asshole Gaeligoir-types who insist on wasting money on having everything translated into bog-talk?

How will they feel all smug and self satisfied if we dump this archaic nonsense from our public buildings?

Just looking at your post makes me shudder with disgust. Speaking like that about Irish speaking people and such a valid part of Irish heritage, our heritage, is extremely ignorant. I severely doubt that those Irish speaking "types" are smug or self-satisfied. In fact I assume them to be proud of their proficiency at Irish, and rightly so.

It is people like your "type" that have aided our beautiful language to fall like it has, if you can't speak Irish pick up a book.. learn it.. do something.

God forbid you might actually become fluent in your country's own language.

L1011 · 15-08-2010 05:22AM

Jayeire wrote: »

Originally Posted by mickydoomsux

Just looking at your post makes me shudder with disgust. Speaking like that about Irish speaking people and such a valid part of Irish heritage, our heritage, is extremely ignorant. I severely doubt that those Irish speaking "types" are smug or self-satisfied. In fact I assume them to be proud of their proficiency at Irish, and rightly so.

It is people like your "type" that have aided our beautiful language to fall like it has, if you can't speak Irish pick up a book.. learn it.. do something.

God forbid you might actually become fluent in your country's own language.

If you think people born in, most likely, the 1970s or later "aided" the language to fall, you need to look back at least 100 years.

Irish was functionally dead before the Free State govt. decided to resussitate it in the late 1920s. It wasn't used for business, education or anything anywhere within the entire country.

We're still living under this legal fiction that its our official first language when its nobodies first language, and most gaeltachts are a grant-milking sham (I'm from one!).

Oh, and being proud of speaking a language few else do is generally seen as being smug by everyone else... and I'm completely fluent in my countries own first (real) language, namely English.

Stonewolf · 15-08-2010 08:32AM

Since this thread has clearly now descended into a general debate about Irish ...

It's a dead language, beating it so vigorously that its sympathetic twitchings provide some vague semblance of life will not change that.

The Irish lobby have this obsession with forcing Irish down our throats and that, ultimately is what's really driving the nail in. I could have done another useful subject for the leaving but no, I had to do Irish and now a lot of tax payers money is being wasted on idiotic schemes to put a dead language on signs which provides no extra information and clutters them up thus detracting from their readability.

Judgement Day · 15-08-2010 09:11AM

Stonewolf wrote: »

Since this thread has clearly now descended into a general debate about Irish ...

It's a dead language, beating it so vigorously that its sympathetic twitchings provide some vague semblance of life will not change that.

The Irish lobby have this obsession with forcing Irish down our throats and that, ultimately is what's really driving the nail in. I could have done another useful subject for the leaving but no, I had to do Irish and now a lot of tax payers money is being wasted on idiotic schemes to put a dead language on signs which provides no extra information and clutters them up thus detracting from their readability.

I tried to keep out of this rather pointless debate but as it's Sunday morning and I'm bored....English is my first language and I have always regarded the millions spent on the Irish language a total waste of money - even in the good times. There is room for bilingual signs and, properly, done they can add to our cultural heritage but the nonsense painted on station platforms needs to be cut out. Arguably it makes the situation more dangerous as it causes confusion. The lengthy PA announcements onboard trains is irritating in the extreme. The old days when a Board's servant blew into the pa system and announced the next station or that tea/coffee/snacks were being served in the dining car were far less intrusive.
Station names and place names in Irish are nice, especially if factually correct, and part of our collective heritage. I object to nonsense like like the IE passenger charter being in both languages - it runs to 40 pages instead of 20 as a result and is therefore a very bad use of paper and not very environmentally friendly. This can be extended to include a vast quantity of State documents which are only produced to satisfy the tokenism of the State and a few Gaelgoirs like O'Cuiv. It would be more useful if the same people devoted more attention to making sure things like road signage etc that appear in Irish are correctly spelt....anyway I feel better now and that's my contribution.

mickydoomsux · 15-08-2010 09:36AM

Jayeire wrote: »

God forbid you might actually become fluent in your country's own language.

English is this countries language. The only reason Irish still exists is because of a nuisance minority who won't let it die like they should.

Sponge Bob · 15-08-2010 10:02AM

Ach cé a scroíbh an seafóid lochtach sin ar an árdán úd .....agus ná cur i mo leithse nach bhfuil aon chumas cumarsáide trí bhéarla agam ???

-Chris- · 15-08-2010 10:14AM

-Chris- wrote: »

Hopefully not, or I'll move it to the Gaeilge forum... :cool:

OK, some ground rules before this thread continues.

This thread shouldn't become a thread about whether Irish is a dead language, whether it's wasting taxpayers' money, whether it's correct to make it an official language of the EU etc. etc.
It's certainly not the place for "you should be embarrassed you can't speak your own mother tongue" or "sure, why would I want to speak bog-talk?"...

This is the Commuting and Transport forum and any discussion should be in the context of this - e.g. is it a safety issue to have instructions in Irish when a decent proportion of the users don't understand it?

Also, I firmly believe this discussion should be in English. I realise it's about the use of Irish in public transport, but the primary language of this website is English and there are many readers who will be excluded (me included) if you're not posting in English.

I hope that makes sense. Thanks

Transportuser09 · 15-08-2010 03:06PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

I tried to keep out of this rather pointless debate but as it's Sunday morning and I'm bored....English is my first language and I have always regarded the millions spent on the Irish language a total waste of money - even in the good times. There is room for bilingual signs and, properly, done they can add to our cultural heritage but the nonsense painted on station platforms needs to be cut out. Arguably it makes the situation more dangerous as it causes confusion. The lengthy PA announcements onboard trains is irritating in the extreme. The old days when a Board's servant blew into the pa system and announced the next station or that tea/coffee/snacks were being served in the dining car were far less intrusive.

I disagree about the signs being dangerous - as long as the message is clearly displayed in English there shouldn't be a problem. It's not like people are going to mistake the Irish statement for English - it's quite clear that it's the same statement in a different language, even if they don't understand it. A lot of products come with multilingual instructions but people seem to cope just fine as long as there are English instructions included.

I see what you mean about the announcements though - some of them are too long in English to start with!

Cookie_Monster · 15-08-2010 03:16PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Ok back on topic, Why have CIE wiped out the Irish translation of a platform warning on Dunlaoghaire Station?

Because no-one cares, and the majority of the travelling public do not understand it either

-Chris- wrote: »

Hopefully not, or I'll move it to the Gaeilge forum... :cool:

please do

dowlingm · 15-08-2010 04:59PM

It looks like Ireland lifted a lot of its thinking in terms of bilingualism from the Government of Canada. I know Canada's official languages commissioner testified before the Oireachtas committee studying the Official Languages Act. In Canada, most federally regulated airlines and the federal train company provide bilingual service to at least some degree. Even the automatic people mover at Toronto Pearson airport between the terminal and the carpark has auto announcements (video/audio) in English and French even though in Toronto French is dwarfed by south and east Asian languages.

Personally I don't see what the fuss is about. The cost is minor in the scheme of things and it makes a difference to people who care about it and it is the first language of this country as specified in the constitution.

How does Swiss Railways do it? They have several languages to handle there.

Cén fáth a raibh Gaeilge bhaintear as an ardán Dunlaoghaire? [Read edit in 1st post]

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