Urban Combatives!

Tim_Murphy · 13-08-2010 05:35AM #1

To those in the know, if this an accurate look at what Urban Combatives is about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-WS09dneHs&feature=player_embedded

Do people really pay money for this?

pma-ire · 13-08-2010 05:48AM

not looking to blow out anybody's candle. but a fair bit of this stuff will get you in deep doo doo if you were to use it to defend yourself in either the security or LEO environment or in civilian defence.

mark.leonard · 13-08-2010 06:50AM

Looks like some Dark Knight wannabe

arybvtcw0eolkf · 13-08-2010 06:57AM

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

To those in the know, if this an accurate look at what Urban Combatives is about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-WS09dneHs&feature=player_embedded

Do people really pay money for this?

Of course people pay money for it, stop riling 'em up ffs Tim :rolleyes:

Ug Lee · 13-08-2010 07:39AM

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

To those in the know, if this an accurate look at what Urban Combatives is about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-WS09dneHs&feature=player_embedded

Do people really pay money for this?

I think it looks pretty good and I would pay money for this.

ehunt3_14 · 13-08-2010 08:13AM

I'm pretty sure that one of the guy's who posts here, Rob, is featured prominently at the start of that vid. He's a great guy and very good to train with.

yomchi · 13-08-2010 08:36AM

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

To those in the know, if this an accurate look at what Urban Combatives is about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-WS09dneHs&feature=player_embedded

Do people really pay money for this?

LOL Tim, 5.30am and your up searching this stuff out?

No, nobody pays money for that Tim. That's a wee advertisement video covering some scenarios, that's all mate.

not looking to blow out anybody's candle. but a fair bit of this stuff will get you in deep doo doo if you were to use it to defend yourself in either the security or LEO environment or in civilian defence.

Don't worry Paulo, your candle was blew out years ago :P joking aside, why? And what experience have you in the security or LEO industry to make that claim?
And are you suggesting that there is a right way and a wrong way to defend yourself? Don't you advocate the use of sticks? or will you say you should block an oncoming attack first?

Plastikman_eire · 13-08-2010 08:52AM

yomchi wrote: »

Don't worry Paulo, your candle was blew out years ago :P joking aside, why? And what experience have you in the security or LEO industry to make that claim?
And are you suggesting that there is a right way and a wrong way to defend yourself? Don't you advocate the use of sticks? or will you say you should block an oncoming attack first?

No I think he's saying that if you "defend" yourself in the manner shown in the vids then you are getting done for assault.

yomchi · 13-08-2010 08:58AM

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

No I think he's saying that if you "defend" yourself in the manner shown in the vids then you are getting done for assault.

Maybe that's what he means. We'll see what he says, if he says that though, I'll ask - what would you suggest?

Bear in mind again, this is an advertisement not a training video although there are some clips of training in there including a clip similar to Crazy Monkey defence.

Plastikman_eire · 13-08-2010 09:05AM

yomchi wrote: »

, I'll ask - what would you suggest?

.

Not stomping the head of a downed opponent for a start?

Dyr · 13-08-2010 09:35AM

Looks like whats i see from my living room window every weekend. Good stuff.

yomchi · 13-08-2010 10:45AM

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Not stomping the head of a downed opponent for a start?

Well level of threat and all that. But there is no stomping on heads in that video. Stomping on limbs maybe, but not the head.

flynny51 · 13-08-2010 11:03AM

yomchi wrote: »

Well level of threat and all that. But there is no stomping on heads in that video. Stomping on limbs maybe, but not the head.

Pretty sure I did see one.

yomchi · 13-08-2010 11:13AM

flynny51 wrote: »

Pretty sure I did see one.

Where?

flynny51 · 13-08-2010 11:21AM

yomchi wrote: »

Where?

Had a look again, at 1.27. heh heh it's actually a bit of a dinky stomp to the upper back / neck. Then he looks around to see did anyone see him before legs it.

cletus · 13-08-2010 11:30AM

As far as I'm aware, pretty much any strike, including a stomp to the body or head, to a downed "opponent" is a no-no for self defence. Once you do this you have now become the aggressor. When the guy is on the ground its time to run away, not stomp him into a puddle

yomchi · 13-08-2010 11:45AM

cletus wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, pretty much any strike, including a stomp to the body or head, is a no-no for self defence. Once you do this you have now become the aggressor. When the guy is on the ground its time to run away, not stomp him into a puddle

Again, level of threat dictates the level of response. When the guy is on the ground, who's to say he'll not get up and run after you. But having said that stomping on the head is something I wouldn't advocate.

yomchi · 13-08-2010 11:46AM

flynny51 wrote: »

Had a look again, at 1.27. heh heh it's actually a bit of a dinky stomp to the upper back / neck. Then he looks around to see did anyone see him before legs it.

LOL, ok it's a dinky stomp now as opposed to a stomp on the head. LOL he's looking around to see if anyone saw him do it LOL

No that's not what he's doing, he maybe just checking for further threats to the situation.

flynny51 · 13-08-2010 11:49AM

yomchi wrote: »

LOL, ok it's a dinky stomp now as opposed to a stomp on the head. LOL he's looking around to see if anyone saw him do it LOL

Well he's hardly going to do a full force stomp in practice. At least not when there's video evidence anyway

yomchi · 13-08-2010 11:51AM

flynny51 wrote: »

Well he's hardly going to do a full force stomp in practice. At least not when there's video evidence anyway

LOL

tallaght01 · 13-08-2010 12:03PM

I'm no lawyer, but I reckon if you boot someone in the back of the neck when they're down on the street, then you're gonna have a hard time justifying it.

But if you're in your house, and you find some armed crazed rapist in your bedroom, then I imagine you'd be on safer territory. But kicks in the head are so dangerous, and it's risky territory either way.

Plastikman_eire · 13-08-2010 12:24PM

flynny51 wrote: »

Well he's hardly going to do a full force stomp in practice. At least not when there's video evidence anyway

Which in a nut shell is why I'll always doubt the effectivness of systems like this or KM. To rip of SGB's term, they arent, and can't, be trained with "aliveness"

If stuff like that isnt committed to muscle memory, you arent gonna do it in a real situation

cletus · 13-08-2010 12:38PM

yomchi wrote: »

Again, level of threat dictates the level of response. When the guy is on the ground, who's to say he'll not get up and run after you. But having said that stomping on the head is something I wouldn't advocate.

If he gets up and runs after you, you can defend yourself again, but self defence only allows for you to do the minimum necessary to escape from the situation

Stomping on the guy when he is no longer an immediate threat, ie on the ground, is not self defence

Doug Cartel · 13-08-2010 12:50PM

I don't think it's even a case of muscle memory. I think a big part of it is that it doesn't give you a sense of how people will really react to your strikes. In these videos, it's always one gut shot and the guy is down or at least covering and making no attempt to regain the initiative.

What happens when your initial strike/gouge doesn't land flush, or the guy just shrugs it off, or you clock him but as you follow up he initiates a clinch and drags you down? You only learn to deal with these things properly by actually doing them.

I know some places do train with an element of realism, doing sessions where they sacrifice deadly techniques for the ability to train full force, but it seems to be a total crap shoot as to which places do this and which ones don't.

tallaght01 · 13-08-2010 01:05PM

The problem with KM is that so many people are teaching it. There's countless clubs in Ireland, whereas I only know of 2 that are IKMF clubs.

There's nothing stopping anyone setting up a "krav maga" club, just as there's nothing stopping me setting up a taekwondo club.

If you train with an IKMF club, you'll spar hard once you're safe. and you'll test your techniques under reasonable pressure, with the protective gear etc. Not much different to other martial arts.

I still think boing/MMA are the best bets for sef defence, but they're not suitable for your average Joe, especially for people who aren't naturally tough. KM is good for the average punter off the street who wants to learn to strike and grapple a bit. But there' no magic bullet.

But the IKMF i the home of KM and is the only way to go. A notable eception would be the club that;s the subject of the current KM thread on this forum. It' an excellent club, if a bot hardcore for many people.

yomchi · 13-08-2010 01:10PM

cletus wrote: »

If he gets up and runs after you, you can defend yourself again, but self defence only allows for you to do the minimum necessary to escape from the situation

Stomping on the guy when he is no longer an immediate threat, ie on the ground, is not self defence

Why have to do it all again when you can just make sure he stays down?

As I said at the start that's an advertisement in that clip. Here is some of the training that is done, as you can see it's not pretty, it's not always accurate, but it provides options for those that may need to handle situations like this in their jobs etc or for those that just want to do it to experience it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfyL0b-vOd4&feature=related

yomchi · 13-08-2010 01:15PM

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Which in a nut shell is why I'll always doubt the effectivness of systems like this or KM. To rip of SGB's term, they arent, and can't, be trained with "aliveness"

If stuff like that isnt committed to muscle memory, you arent gonna do it in a real situation

I'll post it again, I reckon this is pretty alive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfyL0b-vOd4&feature=related

tallaght01 · 13-08-2010 01:19PM

yomchi wrote: »

Why have to do it all again when you can just make sure he stays down?

As I said at the start that's an advertisement in that clip. Here is some of the training that is done, as you can see it's not pretty, it's not always accurate, but it provides options for those that may need to handle situations like this in their jobs etc or for those that just want to do it to experience it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfyL0b-vOd4&feature=related

I quite like that video for the most part actually. But, honestly, there's wayy too much kicking people in the head when they're down. I think you're potentially in some dodgy territory there.

yomchi · 13-08-2010 01:24PM

tallaght01 wrote: »

I quite like that video for the most part actually. But, honestly, there's wayy too much kicking people in the head when they're down. I think you're potentially in some dodgy territory there.

Sure, I could agree with that

mark.leonard · 13-08-2010 01:25PM

I blame Tim Murphy for all of this!

yomchi · 13-08-2010 01:28PM

mark.leonard wrote: »

I blame Tim Murphy for all of this!

I think we're used to Tim around these parts!

I can picture him now...

man-computer-room_~u12845543.jpg

Urban Combatives!

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