Air traffic controller

rattrap · 06-08-2010 12:12AM

skitzyspider wrote: »

Thanks Rattrap:) Sounds good to me...do you take turns then in regards to weekend work or would you always have to work at least one day over the weekend?

Well, like I said, it's an 8 day shift. 5 on, 3 off. Which means weekends will be rotated. Eg, you'll work Mon-Friday one twist and be off Sat, Sun and Mon. That means your next twist starts on a Tues, so you work Tues-Sat and get Sun, Mon, Tues off and so on and so forth. Tbh, if your weekends are that important to you, then maybe not the job for ya. 3 out of every 8 twists you won't have a single weekend day off. Many Fri and Sat nights are quite depressing sitting in front of a radar screen at 11 o'clock at night, when you know everyone else is off having fun or spending time with friends/family/partners. It also means that christenings and weddings etc have to be planned many many months in advance and even then cannot be guaranteed.

And just a small point-we're not civil servants!

ANXIOUS · 06-08-2010 12:21AM

rattrap wrote: »

Well, like I said, it's an 8 day shift. 5 on, 3 off. Which means weekends will be rotated. Eg, you'll work Mon-Friday one twist and be off Sat, Sun and Mon. That means your next twist starts on a Tues, so you work Tues-Sat and get Sun, Mon, Tues off and so on and so forth. Tbh, if your weekends are that important to you, then maybe not the job for ya. 3 out of every 8 twists you won't have a single weekend day off. Many Fri and Sat nights are quite depressing sitting in front of a radar screen at 11 o'clock at night, when you know everyone else is off having fun or spending time with friends/family/partners. It also means that christenings and weddings etc have to be planned many many months in advance and even then cannot be guaranteed.

And just a small point-we're not civil servants!

What are the shifts like? I heard that its something like 15mins off every hour.

Thanks

rattrap · 06-08-2010 12:44AM

ANXIOUS wrote: »

What are the shifts like? I heard that its something like 15mins off every hour.

Thanks

Totally depends on staffing levels, but legally you're not allowed to work for more than two hours without a 'fatigue break' which is fifteen minutes. Sometimes you'll get up to an hour and a half off though.
But, and I don't mean to sound rude here, if you go for this job you're going to have to quite enjoy it, otherwise you just won't be able to get up in the early mornings and drag yourself into it, or keep your mind totally on the radar screen at 3am in the morning-it's kind of a labour of love. Many people seem to be asking about weekends, time off and breaks! (In saying that though, I do understand that a lot of people have family situations they need to take into account)

poEprLut · 06-08-2010 10:43AM

From looking at the Recruitment Process, SCP9 is due to start in Q1 2011. This may appear to be a stupid question, but I have my reasons! What's the deal with leave during the 2 year training period? Is there none?

Chazz Reinhold · 06-08-2010 06:00PM

I also have a question, I'm in a job at the moment but am really interested in applying for this. Whats the deal if you don't pass the exams, are you kicked out or do you just keep doing the training until you pass them?

Don't really fancy leaving a permanent job to go do a course that I may not pass.

Cheers!

DustyMan · 07-08-2010 12:18AM

Australia Air Force Air Traffic Controller

http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/airforce/jobs/airtrafficcontrolofficer/

danthefan · 07-08-2010 10:23AM

DustyMan wrote: »

Australia Air Force Air Traffic Controller

http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/airforce/jobs/airtrafficcontrolofficer/

"Only Australian citizens are permitted to serve in the ADF.

If you are a Permanent Resident of Australia, the ADF may consider a temporary waiver of the citizenship requirement if the position for which you are applying cannot be filled by an applicant who meets all the citizenship requirements, and then only in exceptional circumstances. You will be required to obtain Australian citizenship as early as possible following enlistment or appointment."

DustyMan · 07-08-2010 11:55AM

danthefan wrote: »

"Only Australian citizens are permitted to serve in the ADF.

If you are a Permanent Resident of Australia, the ADF may consider a temporary waiver of the citizenship requirement if the position for which you are applying cannot be filled by an applicant who meets all the citizenship requirements, and then only in exceptional circumstances. You will be required to obtain Australian citizenship as early as possible following enlistment or appointment."

Oh God

One would'nt have to even read the entry requirements to know that! A foreign citizen is hardly going to go over there an just apply and get the position. I did'nt post this link as a form of advertisement.

The reason I posted this link was so that people could perhaps get a flavour of what life was like for an ATC. Albeit a militarty position, I thought perhaps that anyone who would be intrested in applying for the Irish advertised position might pick up some usefull info from this link and might also be generally intrested in viewing it.

Intouch9 · 09-08-2010 08:33PM

Hey Guys,

In terms of the medical, how would a smoker fare out?
I'm sorry in advance if this is a blatently obvious question but I genuinely have no idea!

Carlos_Ray · 09-08-2010 08:55PM

Anyone interested in doing this should give it serious thought. Not only is it a highly stressful job, but if you change your mind during or after training you could have a large bill on your hands.

(a) Where they achieve an ICAO rating they will repay partial training costs of €50,000. Deductions will commence on attainment of the ICAO rating at the rate of €500 per fortnight until paid in full.

(b) Where they achieve a rating and subsequently terminate their training contract prior to an offer of employment as an ATCO (Operational) with the Irish Aviation Authority they will be required to repay partial training costs of €85,000 on leaving.

(c) Where Students achieve a rating and refuse an offer of employment as an ATCO (Operational) with the IAA they will be required to repay partial training costs of €85,000 on leaving.

(d) Where Students accept employment as an ATCO (Operational) with the
Authority and subsequently serve for less than 4 years they will be
required to repay partial training costs as follows, in addition to any balance outstanding from application

poEprLut · 09-08-2010 11:05PM

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

(a) Where they achieve an ICAO rating they will repay partial training costs of €50,000. Deductions will commence on attainment of the ICAO rating at the rate of €500 per fortnight until paid in full.

And to add... This is when you successfully complete the training course, and begin to work, you pay back €50,000 at the rate of €500 a fortnight, i.e. 4 years, give or take.

airscotty · 10-08-2010 12:05PM

Would this not be quite a boring job...? No varity just sitting lookin at a computer all day?...not for me. Nice safe well paying job though...and you get paid to train!! amazing...id love to be paid to go to collage.

highlydebased · 10-08-2010 12:13PM

airscotty wrote: »

Would this not be quite a boring job...? No varity just sitting lookin at a computer all day?...not for me. Nice safe well paying job though...and you get paid to train!! amazing...id love to be paid to go to collage.

Could well be variety- you may be working in control tower one week and in radar the next.

DustyMan · 10-08-2010 03:20PM

rattrap wrote: »

This isn't just a course with a qualification at the end. You're guaranteed a job; that is if you successfully complete it. The training program is 9:30-5:30 Monday to Friday. They don't find you somewhere to live and they don't dictate what you do in your spare time (so you can live at home and commute every day or go home on weekends).
First 12 weeks are classroom based (something like 8 subjects:navigation, air law, aircraft performance etc) with exams that you MUST pass (70% is a pass for the IAA). You then go onto simulator work. Tower; en-route and procedural. Each of these sections has a written exam and several practical assessments all the way through-again 70% pass. Then it's onto the rating training. This is what tells you where you'll be based. It'll either be Shannon, Cork or Dublin (one of the three state airports-but most likely Shannon). Ratings can be for high level en-route, low level, approach, terminal area, approach etc etc. You should be guaranteed your first rating within 2 years of joining the company.

As for needing to be interested in planes...You don't! You will learn as you go. Sure, it'd be an advantage if you really really love the idea of air transport and have wanted to do this job all your life. Air traffic control is about the safe, orderly, expeditious flow of traffic. So if you think your working style and personality are like that, then you've got an advantage. It does require shift work: this means early morning starts (6am in Dublin), night shifts (two in a week for Shannon workers), Saturday, Sunday, Bank holiday work, and of course someone has to work over the Christmas and Easter holidays.
As for the pay, if you get the job full time, I have this to say: there was a LOT of spin in the media this year about ATCO salaries. I can tell you that the basic salary for a newly qualified ATCO is around 48,000 basic before tax (don't get me wrong I think this is a great salary-I'm just trying to set the misconceptions straight). Shift gives you 27% and if you work all the hours God sends you on overtime, I'm sure you could make a lot more. Sure, the job is stressful sometimes and yes, it is antisocial, and of course you have the burden of hundreds of peoples lives in your hands every minute, but I don't think I could do anything else.

Thanks for the info you've given here and to the other contributors too.

I have been intrested in the job but obviously it's a VERY difficult to actually get onto the course, 28 positions I believe? with possibly 1000's applying too!!
I'm sure it's exciting etc and the money is very good for good reasons but would it get somewhat tiring just loooking at a computer screen all day? I mean if one were the 'outdoors type' and not really keen on an 'office job' would it suit? Is there a certain type of person and or personality that would be best suited to the ATC role?
Thanks in advance.

Ps

Have you ever seen unexplained 'blips' on radar? The 'unknown'? UFO's that is??

PPs

Here's something you might like?

Controller: I've got you on radar, state your intentions.
Pilot: Can I fly around in circles Sir?
Controller: Negative, you are in a busy airspace right now.
Pilot: Ok then, I'll fly around in straight lines.

rattrap · 10-08-2010 03:59PM

poEprLut wrote: »

From looking at the Recruitment Process, SCP9 is due to start in Q1 2011. This may appear to be a stupid question, but I have my reasons! What's the deal with leave during the 2 year training period? Is there none?

You are assigned leave during this period to correlate with the times that the training school is closed. That is, all bank holidays and some time over Christmas and then usually 2/3 weeks during the year.

I also have a question, I'm in a job at the moment but am really interested in applying for this. Whats the deal if you don't pass the exams, are you kicked out or do you just keep doing the training until you pass them?

Don't really fancy leaving a permanent job to go do a course that I may not pass.

During the theory part of the course, I think you could fail one written exam and get another attempt at it. Any more than one and you're gone. A lot of the assessments are do 5, pass 3 (sometimes 4). Fail any more than that and you're gone. It makes sense though. If you keep failing, you're obviously not suited for the job. You'd also be slowing down the progress of the whole class who will probably have already passed.
However, like I said before , this isn't a 'course' in the traditional sense of the word. You are assessed through aptitude tests and interviews, you are then given a job by the IAA, which needs a certain amount of training (i.e 2 years). If you fail the assessments or exams you are let go due to general suitability.

If you are let go by the Authority then you incur no costs. The only time you would have to pay any money is if you get your rating at the end of the 2 years. You can leave ny time before this and not incur any costs.

Hey Guys,

In terms of the medical, how would a smoker fare out?
I'm sorry in advance if this is a blatently obvious question but I genuinely have no idea!

There are many many smokers in ATC. The medical is more for general health, blood pressure, heart disease, hearing, vision etc

To answer the questions about it being a boring job: Some people may well see it that way, as you do have to sit down for long periods of time. However, no two days are the same, for example in Dublin planes arrive at different times everyday, there are overflights, emergencies, military activity and aircraft, visual guys floating about in and out of Weston, go-arounds, search and rescue aircraft, low visibility, holding, then you may not sit in the same position each time. In fact not only are no two days the same, but no two hours are. It's a very dynamic job, needing very dynamic and flexible people.
I always said I could never do a desk job, and I like it just fine...it's a jeans and t-shirt kinda place to work...

As for positions, in (I think) 2007 there were 1400(ish) applicants for 24 places. Probably more this year, due to the big 'R'.

Garret C · 10-08-2010 04:25PM

Just out of interest. The radar screens you look at. Are they PC based programs you look at or is it its own dedicated hardware?

If its a pc bases application can you let me know what you use?
Thanks.

rattrap · 10-08-2010 04:35PM

Garret C wrote: »

Just out of interest. The radar screens you look at. Are they PC based programs you look at or is it its own dedicated hardware?

If its a pc bases application can you let me know what you use?
Thanks.

I'm not completely sure. I think it may be a bit of a hybrid. Some input/output devices are definitely dedicated (screens etc). I'm think the system is Windows based, but honestly I couldn't really help you any more than that.

Intouch9 · 10-08-2010 04:43PM

Thanks a million Rattrap. I've been waiting to apply for this since I was like.... 4. Its my dream job!

I know you're bombarded with questions & really appreciate you taking the time to come and talk to us.

One final question - you may have been asked this before so feel free to point me in the direction if you have, what kind of backgrounds do the people that you work with come from? I've been having a look on here and there are people with strong computer and maths backgrounds applying whereas I'm a teacher who looks after a website now for a large company!

Any info would be really appreciated.

rachaelf750 · 10-08-2010 04:48PM

My son is 9 and he is all ready considering this as a career,he said he gonna get a job with loads of money !!!I'l be encourging him every sterp of the way

:D

poEprLut · 11-08-2010 10:46AM

Time for an another inane question!

Looking at the two year training program here - http://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=98&n=382 - I can only account for 66 of the 104 weeks. I realise there's holidays and such to be taken, but that wouldn't account for the rest!

Elessar · 11-08-2010 10:55AM

rattrap wrote: »

If you are let go by the Authority then you incur no costs. The only time you would have to pay any money is if you get your rating at the end of the 2 years. You can leave ny time before this and not incur any costs.

Not according to the spec sheet on the website? IIRC if you leave at any time before you finish your training, you have to repay a percentage of the training costs. Also you have to repay a smaller percentage of them after you pass and start working.

EDIT: nevermind:

Students will incur no liability to training costs in the following circumstances:
- -
Where they have their training contract terminated by the Authority Where Students terminate their training contract prior to the achievement of a rating Where Students are not offered employment with the Authority
- Students will incur liability to training costs in the following circumstances:
(a) Where they achieve an ICAO rating they will repay partial training costs of €50,000. Deductions will commence on attainment of the ICAO rating at the rate of €500 per fortnight until paid in full.
(b) Where they achieve a rating and subsequently terminate their training contract prior to an offer of employment as an ATCO (Operational) with the Irish Aviation Authority they will be required to repay partial training costs of €85,000 on leaving.
(c) Where Students achieve a rating and refuse an offer of employment as an ATCO (Operational) with the IAA they will be required to repay partial training costs of €85,000 on leaving.
(d) Where Students accept employment as an ATCO (Operational) with the Authority and subsequently serve for less than 4 years they will be
required to repay partial training costs as follows, in addition to any balance outstanding from application of paragraph (a) above:
Service as an ATCO (Operational)
Less than 1 year 1 to 2 years 2 to 3 years 3 to 4 years
€35,000 €25,000 €15,000 €5,000

donkey balls · 11-08-2010 11:28AM

poEprLut wrote: »

Time for an another inane question!

Looking at the two year training program here - http://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=98&n=382 - I can only account for 66 of the 104 weeks. I realise there's holidays and such to be taken, but that wouldn't account for the rest!

could be OJT were the student is supervised by another controller happens while your training to be a airline pilot,i also have pics of the scopes used in ATC along with some video clips i will try and find there on my phone somewhere:Dand i will try and post them here.

poEprLut · 11-08-2010 01:52PM

donkey balls wrote: »

could be OJT were the student is supervised by another controller happens while your training to be a airline pilot,i also have pics of the scopes used in ATC along with some video clips i will try and find there on my phone somewhere:Dand i will try and post them here.

16 weeks OJT is included in the calculations.

Actually, I can only account for 61 of the 104 weeks, my Excel foo is letting me down.

rattrap · 11-08-2010 03:57PM

poEprLut wrote: »

Time for an another inane question!

Looking at the two year training program here - http://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=98&n=382 - I can only account for 66 of the 104 weeks. I realise there's holidays and such to be taken, but that wouldn't account for the rest!

Well, it's more like they guarantee your rating within the first two years. But there's the other things you do such as blip driving and data controller.

Thanks a million Rattrap. I've been waiting to apply for this since I was like.... 4. Its my dream job!

I know you're bombarded with questions & really appreciate you taking the time to come and talk to us.

One final question - you may have been asked this before so feel free to point me in the direction if you have, what kind of backgrounds do the people that you work with come from? I've been having a look on here and there are people with strong computer and maths backgrounds applying whereas I'm a teacher who looks after a website now for a large company!

Any info would be really appreciated.

A lot of people come from office jobs, there's been a bar manager, radio presenter, then there's people from aeronautical backgrounds too. The thing is, if you go for the job, the aptitude tests will decide if you're able do it or not. Then the interview goes to the core of your motivation and goals, regards of what area they have been in!

Intouch9 · 11-08-2010 06:30PM

You're a legend my friend. Thanks so much!

Grupouva · 11-08-2010 07:03PM

shoegirl wrote: »

Erm, last time I looked most degrees were 4 years and some courses were 9-5 weekdays and Sat morning!

As for apprenticeships, most are weekdays Mon to Fri and then 4-5 evenings 6-9pm.

Plus you've no guarantee of a job after either - this is training for a real job.

The hours are long and the work is hard but the rewards are excellent - good money and a long steady career.

I wouldn't snipe at a 2 year training course for a job that good.

I think you misunderstood me, what I meant was it's a big step to take to completely dedicate the next 2 years to a full time course and put aside any chance of getting another job that might have come up in the meantime.

From reading the other posters on this thread I would hazard a guess that those here that are interested in applying for this are in a similar position to myself - people that have already spent the last 5 to 10 years working in areas nothing to do with aviation/atc but now have no job opportunities whatsoever and would like to give this a try.

Its one thing for someone who's just finished the Leaving Cert, living with parents and with no money worries to embark on a 4 year college course, but for people with kids/car/mortgage and whatever else it's a different story altogether.

Not having a go, just wanted to make it clearer what i meant in first post

locklor · 13-08-2010 01:12AM

rattrap wrote: »

The thing is, if you go for the job, the aptitude tests will decide if you're able do it or not. Then the interview goes to the core of your motivation and goals, regards of what area they have been in!

Thanks for the info.

I have an unusual question. You say the interviewers ask about motivation and goals. I am a good worker and a genuine person. However, I really have no "goals" or "motivation." I just want to do a job and do it well and get paid for it.

From your previous posts, it sounds to me like it's a job suitable for people who just want do their job and do it well. In the interview, would you have to pretend otherwise and come off as an enthusiastic, goal-driven, Mr. positive motivational speaker etc??

monkeypants · 13-08-2010 09:50AM

I believe the closing date is Wednesday 18th, so get your application in.

For me, filling out my Leaving Cert results was tough, could only remember half of it and vaguely at that, could remember the basic grade, say a B, but couldn't remember if it was a B1/B2/B3. Then I couldn't find my cert anywhere. Had to order a replacement from here. Cost €13.50 and arrived two days later. Couldn't fault that.

My name's in the hat. Let's see how it goes.

wylo · 13-08-2010 12:07PM

locklor wrote: »

Thanks for the info.

I have an unusual question. You say the interviewers ask about motivation and goals. I am a good worker and a genuine person. However, I really have no "goals" or "motivation." I just want to do a job and do it well and get paid for it.

From your previous posts, it sounds to me like it's a job suitable for people who just want do their job and do it well. In the interview, would you have to pretend otherwise and come off as an enthusiastic, goal-driven, Mr. positive motivational speaker etc??

tbh man, you have to come off like that at every interview, when they ask you what are your future goals, you dont say 'ahh nothing really, just want to work away, do a good job, and get paid for it'. You tell them you want to eventually rise up and maybe get into a managerial position.

Maybe this job is different but I somehow doubt it.

Intouch9 · 13-08-2010 01:12PM

monkeypants wrote: »

I believe the closing date is Wednesday 18th, so get your application in.

For me, filling out my Leaving Cert results was tough, could only remember half of it and vaguely at that, could remember the basic grade, say a B, but couldn't remember if it was a B1/B2/B3. Then I couldn't find my cert anywhere. Had to order a replacement from here. Cost €13.50 and arrived two days later. Couldn't fault that.

My name's in the hat. Let's see how it goes.

I had the same issue mate, but I emailed my old school and they send em straight out to me!

Air traffic controller

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