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Pregnant widow flogged and shot dead by the Taleban

123578

Comments

  • #122
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    fayrae wrote: »
    Tonight, on The Factor, a Muslim woman did speak out against building a Mosque near ground zero. God bless her!
    I'm impressed. I've never seen as many examples of irony in the one sentence.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #123
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I'm impressed. I've never seen as many examples of irony in the one sentence.

    Wibbs what's up? Not a bit like You to single out one sentence from a post that said so much more?
    It would be a sad day for us if You demeaned Your astonishing intellect and ability to see both sides of almost anything You put Your mind to.


  • #124
    Wagon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,119 ✭✭✭Wagon


    Ush1 wrote: »
    It's absolutely shocking and despicable but just something to think about. Are the US so much better as they still legally kill people with the death penalty? Obviously it's more humane the way they do it, but it's still the state killing someone.
    The death penalty in the US is reserved for the most brutal of crimes. Mass murders, torture, rape etc... all in very extreme ways. In the US, the death penalty removes those from society who actually want to destroy it. So it's acceptable in that it might actually go towards saving the lives of innocent civilians who would otherwise be at risk if these men and women were let free.

    In the middle east, a woman is beaten and murdered in public and for what? Getting pregnant.

    When you weigh them up, there's a world of difference in there.


  • #125
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    fayrae wrote: »
    My first post here and probably my last as I'm sure I will be pulverized for it. All afternoon, I've thought about this woman who was flogged and then shot. Flogged over 200 times. Can you even begin to feel what she must have felt? Could any one of you have delivered the 10th lash? How about the 51st? 101? The only act of mercy shown here was shooting her in the head - instant death. They showed no mercy for the baby. I can't even begin to imagine how a person can do this to another human being. It's barbaric, evil, unimaginable ...
    I agree. 100%.
    I googled this topic, found your forum and started reading. I can't believe some of the comments! :eek: It's the fault of the west that there is a Taliban?
    Yes, pretty much. The west was all too happy to back them when the USSR invaded Afghanistan. They were treated and reported as heros. The indomitable Mujahideen. Check out movies such as Rambo 3 from the 80's for the favourable impression given of them. The same god fearing right wing Gawd Bless America people who now see the same people as animals and enemy. Check out US and UK news reports from the time. Yea well they're the Taliban and other militias in the place. They were our friends against the Reds under the bed and when they were doling out the oil, but now? Not so much. The history of the middle east has many hands in the pot and the vast majority of them bloody. The west has been carving them up and using the area to fight their battles for them for over a century. The British, Germans and French at first, then the US and the USSR got involved after world war two. On 911 those 4 silver chickens came home to roost and killed 1000's. They may have been flown by radical Islamist nutjob bastards, but a 100 years of western foreign policy bought their tickets. People have short memories. It wasnt so long ago that much of the middle east was pretty secular. There was even a strong communist party in Iraq. These "Mad Mullahs" sprang from a resistance to these various interferences.
    You can compare something like this to war with other countries? There have always been wars, right or wrong and yes innocent people are killed but to even bring that into this discussion implies that our leaders are of the same caliber as the mullahs who did this to terrorize their subjects, especially woman, into submission. It's NOT the same thing!!!!!!!!!
    It all depends on your viewpoint, like is the case with all these things. Yes these are primitive animals, but how did they get into the position they're in now? How many innocent men, women and children have been blown into unrecognisable human jelly by "smart" bombs? 100,000 alone in the first gulf war.
    And we're worried about a little water-boarding at Gitmo? :confused:
    Well you should be as that kinda thing is breeding more and more of these mad mullahs with every passing day.
    Maybe it's about time some of these beast got a taste of their own medicine.
    They have done. Again why do you think they and their twisted dogma even exist?

    For future reference The O'Reilly Factor on Fox is hardly a good yardstick by which to judge that or any conflict.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #126
    Jesus Juice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭Jesus Juice


    Wibbs wrote: »

    For future reference The O'Reilly Factor on Fox is hardly a good yardstick by which to judge that or any conflict.

    Bill O'Reilly only cares about 2 things.
    1.Hearing his own voice.
    2.Selling his shitty ass books


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  • #127
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    Wagon wrote: »
    The death penalty in the US is reserved for the most brutal of crimes. Mass murders, torture, rape etc... all in very extreme ways. In the US, the death penalty removes those from society who actually want to destroy it.

    Hi Wagon,I cannot agree with You there.The Death penalty is basicly the State acting as God,also DNA evidence shows that often the wrong people were executed or on Death row when they were innocent.
    Like health care for all until recently being unthinkable in the US,the fact that some States still execute only lowers America'a right to claim a moral high ground.on a practicle level many feel some of the worst offenders get off too lightly by execution rather than being left to rot for 40 years.
    another thing worthy of note is it usually people from the poorest of backgrounds that end up there.
    The issue of Judges running for election is also bound to influence the sentence they hand out and the fact that Prisons in the main are profit making private sector is open to abuse by corrupt Judges.
    it is one of the issues the US needs to address to be respected more by rational people IMO.


  • #128
    Ush1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,484 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Wagon wrote: »
    The death penalty in the US is reserved for the most brutal of crimes. Mass murders, torture, rape etc... all in very extreme ways. In the US, the death penalty removes those from society who actually want to destroy it. So it's acceptable in that it might actually go towards saving the lives of innocent civilians who would otherwise be at risk if these men and women were let free.

    In the middle east, a woman is beaten and murdered in public and for what? Getting pregnant.

    When you weigh them up, there's a world of difference in there.

    Most states, if you kill a police officer it's the death penalty. Don't need to be a mass murderer or anything like that.


  • #129
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    You'd have to be a fairly sadistic person to volunteer to be the one who flicks the switch.


  • #130
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    old_aussie wrote: »
    Untill these so called "good muslims" stand up and do something about this type of sadistic bull**** then they are all tarred with the same brush.

    Tell me the last time you saw or heard of "good muslims" protesting about this sadistic bull****!

    http://www.freemuslims.org/

    http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm

    http://www.islamagainstterrorism.com/

    http://www.smoothradioeastmidlands.co.uk/news-sport/national-news//fighting-extremism-antiterror-camp-opens/v7dk7z99/

    That lot took me all of two minutes to find. But then, I was looking.


  • #131
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    http://www.freemuslims.org/

    http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm

    http://www.islamagainstterrorism.com/

    http://www.smoothradioeastmidlands.co.uk/news-sport/national-news//fighting-extremism-antiterror-camp-opens/v7dk7z99/

    That lot took me all of two minutes to find. But then, I was looking.
    Plus you have to remember that the vast majority of Muslims are just living their lives, going to work, meeting mates, raising families etc. Like any humans they're not going to bother either way until it hits home to them. Am I out protesting against the Israeli govenerment, or the US and their allies prosecution of the war against terror, or protesting against the mind numbingly distant rantings of the pope and his minions, or any number of things I could be publicly flipping out about? Nope. Doesnt mean I'm for any of the above.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • #132
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    Until western society as a whole rejects the 'moral' guidance of superstition we can't fully condemn this.

    The christian bible calls for death for many offences, be assured, these people could use that stupid book just as easily to justify murder.

    http://spot.colorado.edu/~huemer/biblequotes.htm


    When people reject religion then they can condemn, many of the 'catholic' people condemning on this thread should be put to death according to their own bible.

    The ones who have lived by those idiotic rules should be calling for it.

    And not doing so will condemn you to hell, better get out the god hates fags placard quick.


    You cant blame the Qu'ran, your own trash book has many evil passages.


  • #133
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    Until western society as a whole rejects the 'moral' guidance of superstition we can't fully condemn this.

    The christian bible calls for death for many offences, be assured, these people could use that stupid book just as easily to justify murder.

    http://spot.colorado.edu/~huemer/biblequotes.htm


    When people reject religion then they can condemn, many of the 'catholic' people condemning on this thread should be put to death according to their own bible.

    The ones who have lived by those idiotic rules should be calling for it.

    And not doing so will condemn you to hell, better get out the god hates fags placard quick.


    You cant blame the Qu'ran, your own trash book has many evil passages.
    Actually, in this instance you can blame the Koran.
    They said themselves that it was done in the name of Islam.


  • #134
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    Terry wrote: »
    Actually, in this instance you can blame the Koran.
    They said themselves that it was done in the name of Islam.

    The point is they could have used any old stupid religious book, I was highlighting the ability to use religion in general to justify this kind of barbarism and utter lack of morality.

    The name of the book of lies is irrelevant, it is the desire to use them to justify your own bigotry and desires for violence.

    It is hypocritical to blame religion if you yourself were religious, there are parts of the bible calling for death for many things we don't even consider crimes today.

    There are christians in africa who burn 'witches' to this day.


  • #135
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    +1 It's also down to which bits you read in both cases. The world would be better off if Christians only read and followed the new testament. Y'know the bit with Jesus in it. Where 99.9% of it is not martial or aggressive in any ways. You'll notice in that link that the majority of the mad and frankly dangerous guff is in the old testament. The god of the old testament is one capricious nasty and downright sadistic git. I always find it amusing to see right wing christians, usually Americans, quote chapter and verse of a section of the Talmud, yet the same would probably blackball a Jew from becoming a member of their golf club.

    If the Muslims only read the Quran and left behind the Hadith and the early medieval stuff contained in it the world would be a better place too. Yes there are more martial passages in the Quran than the Gospels, but they're far more easily ignored as just part of the history of the early faith. Throwing the Hadith into it gives carte blanche to nutters. Funny enough there is a much bigger Islamic movement of Quran only Muslims than there are Gospel only Christians. I for one can't think of a single example of the latter.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #136
    Jasper Melodic Rehabilitation
    Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭ Jasper Melodic Rehabilitation


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »


    You cant blame the Qu'ran, your own trash book has many evil passages.

    I really dont think describing a book of faith as trash adds anything to this topic .


  • #137
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Jasper Melodic Rehabilitation wrote: »
    I really dont think describing a book of faith as trash adds anything to this topic .
    I agree there. It just puts people on the back foot.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #138
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    The christian bible calls for death for many offences, be assured, these people could use that stupid book just as easily to justify murder.

    When people reject religion then they can condemn, many of the 'catholic' people condemning on this thread should be put to death according to their own bible..

    Perhaps you could point out from the New Testament where Christians are instructed to use the death penalty?


  • #139
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    Jasper Melodic Rehabilitation wrote: »
    I really dont think describing a book of faith as trash adds anything to this topic .

    I consider faith itself to be a false quality, a combination of gullibility and denial, don't expect me to be nice about the rubbish written from ignorance thousands of years ago used today to deny homosexuals equal rights, deny children places in schools, so on and so on yadda yadda.

    I won't go any further off topic thrashing religion in general, I made my point in my post above, all religion can be used in this way, I used the term trash book as it is what I consider books of 'faith' to be, I am not an ambassador, I am just a guy on the internet expressing an opinion, I have no duty to respect that which I do not.


  • #140
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    prinz wrote: »
    Perhaps you could point out from the New Testament where Christians are instructed to use the death penalty?

    If you revert to the Old I will know you have a weak grasp of Christianity.

    You missed my point.

    The point was that you could easily use that book to justify murder, as the people in this story used their book also.

    And I do grasp that Christianity is a pick and choose what suits your agenda religion, I just don't have any respect for that.


  • #141
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    http://www.ariel.com.au/jokes/Dr_Laura_and_Leviticus.html
    Dr Laura and Leviticus
    Laura Schlesinger is a US radio personality, who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. She recently said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination, according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstances. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura which was posted on the Internet.
    Dear Dr. Laura:

    Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.

    I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

    1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

    2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

    3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

    6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

    7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?

    8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

    9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

    10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16.

    Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

    I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

    Your adoring fan,

    Homer Simpson-Caldwell


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  • #142
    Jasper Melodic Rehabilitation
    Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭ Jasper Melodic Rehabilitation


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    I consider faith itself to be a false quality, a combination of gullibility and denial, don't expect me to be nice about the rubbish written from ignorance thousands of years ago used today to deny homosexuals equal rights, deny children places in schools, so on and so on yadda yadda.

    I won't go any further off topic thrashing religion in general, I made my point in my post above, all religion can be used in this way, I used the term trash book as it is what I consider books of 'faith' to be, I am not an ambassador, I am just a guy on the internet expressing an opinion, I have no duty to respect that which I do not.

    Fair enough but personally when someone speaks in absolutes and slaggs off other peoples faiths i have a tendency to switch off maybe miss out on further points that poster cares to make valid or not .


  • #143
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Hey I agree with Stercus Accidit. The three Abrahamic faiths are beyond the pale as far as daftness goes. The Old testament is the kicking off point. Islam toned it down somewhat but its still chock full of old time religion. Christianity also dragged along the old time religion. That said of the three a gospel only christian would be safest as a neighbour. No wars, no killing(except of him), no gaining of wealth or slaves and a get out clause for secular government.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #144
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    And I do grasp that Christianity is a pick and choose what suits your agenda religion, I just don't have any respect for that.

    I don't think you do. You first referenced the 'Christian Bible', so I am asking you for something from the New Testament, i.e. from Jesus on that instructs followers to use the death penalty. Presumably from your grasp of Christianity you'd know that the Old Testament is primarily the Jewish Tanakh yeah? So linking to something from the OT as a way Christians would justify lashing and executing someone is pointless.

    As you also mention Catholics then you'd know that the OT was broken down into various elements, moral, ceremonial and judicial ( including OT prescribed death penalties ) and that the usual line of thought in Catholicism is that ceremonial/ritual and judicial laws were reformed by Jesus, which is why say Catholics eat pork for example. So if you are going to argue that the "Christian Bible" instructs Christians that the death penalty is recommended you are mistaken.


  • #145
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    prinz wrote: »
    Perhaps you could point out from the New Testament where Christians are instructed to use the death penalty?
    The thing is, Christians use both books. Something I find fairly amusing.

    Wibbs wrote: »
    +1 It's also down to which bits you read in both cases. The world would be better off if Christians only read and followed the new testament. Y'know the bit with Jesus in it. Where 99.9% of it is not martial or aggressive in any ways. You'll notice in that link that the majority of the mad and frankly dangerous guff is in the old testament. The god of the old testament is one capricious nasty and downright sadistic git. I always find it amusing to see right wing christians, usually Americans, quote chapter and verse of a section of the Talmud, yet the same would probably blackball a Jew from becoming a member of their golf club.

    If the Muslims only read the Quran and left behind the Hadith and the early medieval stuff contained in it the world would be a better place too. Yes there are more martial passages in the Quran than the Gospels, but they're far more easily ignored as just part of the history of the early faith. Throwing the Hadith into it gives carte blanche to nutters. Funny enough there is a much bigger Islamic movement of Quran only Muslims than there are Gospel only Christians. I for one can't think of a single example of the latter.

    In the name of Jesus. :)


  • #146
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Everyone is having a theory discussion about faith.

    In reality, whatever one can glean from the bible or not, I haven't attended any public lashings or executions of homosexuals, adulturers, widows, etc, around these parts lately.


  • #147
    irishconvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    prinz wrote: »
    I don't think you do. You first referenced the 'Christian Bible', so I am asking you for something from the New Testament, i.e. from Jesus on that instructs followers to use the death penalty. Presumably from your grasp of Christianity you'd know that the Old Testament is primarily the Jewish Tanakh yeah? So linking to something from the OT as a way Christians would justify lashing and executing someone is pointless.

    As you also mention Catholics then you'd know that the OT was broken down into various elements, moral, ceremonial and judicial ( including OT prescribed death penalties ) and that the usual line of thought in Catholicism is that ceremonial/ritual and judicial laws were reformed by Jesus, which is why say Catholics eat pork for example. So if you are going to argue that the "Christian Bible" instructs Christians that the death penalty is recommended you are mistaken.

    Why was I thought the old Testament in school as a Christian then? Has it recently been thrown out?


  • #148
    wilson10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 512 ✭✭✭wilson10


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    http://www.ariel.com.au/jokes/Dr_Laura_and_Leviticus.html


    I love it.

    I would love to hear her answers


  • #149
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Terry wrote: »
    The thing is, Christians use both books. Something I find fairly amusing.

    Use both sets but there's a pecking order when it comes to application.
    irishconvert wrote: »
    Why was I thought the old Testament in school as a Christian then? Has it recently been thrown out?

    It is there to inform and complete the messianic picture. See above re the distinctions between moral, ritual and judicial teachings. The OT relates to the OLD covenant. The NT relates to the NEW covenant - i.e. the one which actually relates to Christ, hence Christians.


  • #150
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Biggins wrote: »
    For me, its a protest ONLY against the Taliban justice system.
    I have friends that I have gotten to know through my wife, whom are Muslim and they are very decent people.

    I never suggested you were engaging in muslim bashing. Try reading the thread.
    Biggins wrote: »
    Instead of automatically bashing America, maybe some of that mental energy can be used to offer practical suggestion as how to defeat this twisted menace?


    Would you like to illustrate where I've engaged in this automatic America bashing? Certainly I haven't in this thread.


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  • #151
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Giselle wrote: »
    I'd like to be clear that my previous posts are anti-Taliban, not anti-Muslim.

    I would have thought it fairly clear who I was firing at....
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67366836&postcount=30
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67366922&postcount=39
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67367285&postcount=62


This discussion has been closed.
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