I AMsterdam 2010

village runner · 27-07-2010 08:46PM

T runner wrote: »

Yep I know, I dont agree with that. Strides can be done during recovery runs as well as general aerobic runs.
I suppose if there are 2 sessions of faster running during the week then strides may not be necessary every week.

lets say you have done a tempo or long run on a sunday. why would you do strides on a monday ?? my legs do be tender/sore so wouldnt dare do that. I might do 2 fast days in a row but then i would have 3-4 easy days. wont argue as every one is different. obey the body is number 1.

seanynova · 27-07-2010 09:07PM

im on the fence on this one, but following Daniels plan, there are no "recovery" runs, just 4/5 "easy" days with strides after 2 or 3 of them.
but, "easy" is...easy, and in a way a recovery run, care and stress free etc.

from looking at P&D plans, i have structured my easy runs around this P&D style, but i will include strides after the aerobic runs and maybe a recovery if i feel up to it....last sunday i couldnt, even if i wanted too!

hopefully will do a slow 5miles tonight when it cools down anyway, no strides

have an animal tempo session coming up on friday, 4 x 10-12mins tempo with 2mins recovery, thats 40-48mins of (hard) tempo running! and even in the 2mins rest the heart will be pumping at tempo level...dont want to be run down going into that one!

village runner · 27-07-2010 09:21PM

seanynova wrote: »

im on the fence on this one, but following Daniels plan, there are no "recovery" runs, just 4/5 "easy" days with strides after 2 or 3 of them.
but, "easy" is...easy, and in a way a recovery run, care and stress free etc.

from looking at P&D plans, i have structured my easy runs around this P&D style, but i will include strides after the aerobic runs and maybe a recovery if i feel up to it....last sunday i couldnt, even if i wanted too!

hopefully will do a slow 5miles tonight when it cools down anyway, no strides
have an animal tempo session coming up on friday, 4 x 10-12mins tempo with 2mins recovery, thats 40-48mins of (hard) tempo running! and even in the 2mins rest the heart will be pumping at tempo level...dont want to be run down going into that one!

doing it myself. first 2 sets are ok. make sure not to start them too fast. then you wont be shattered by the last one. pick up the pace on the last one will give you great confidence. what pace are you hoping to run these at ? For example after a tough one like that i wouldnt be doing strides the folwing day. I would imagine that this program is based on a 6 day week.

seanynova · 27-07-2010 09:37PM

village runner wrote: »

doing it myself. first 2 sets are ok. make sure not to start them too fast. then you wont be shattered by the last one. pick up the pace on the last one will give you great confidence. what pace are you hoping to run these at ? For example after a tough one like that i wouldnt be doing strides the folwing day. I would imagine that this program is based on a 6 day week.

i actually dont know how to pace the tempo runs, if my interval times are anything to go by, im prob in and abouts 6:20m/m, which would have been my previous tempo pace based on a HM time of 1:24:19 (6:26m/m). 6:20m/m is what i would have trained for on tempo sessions previously but that was before i took a few weeks off and now im struggling to get the pace endurance back!

ill set the garmin for 6:25-6:45 maybe and go from there but i might work with HR more than pace for now as temperature is also a big factor!
i know what you mean about going out too fast, dont want the last 1 or 2 to be dragging along at 7:00m/m pace, not good and my confidence is already low...

seanynova · 28-07-2010 01:50AM

tues 27th, 5.1m Recovery 44:34mins @8:45m/m aveHR147. 23deg

did this one nice and slowely, not sure how that HR compares to what it should be, i have no idea of my max, 220 - (0.7 x 28) = 200max? so i was at 74% today then, that ok?

anyway have a medium long run tomorrow morning so will hopefully be ok for that!

total weekly mileage: 22m

T runner · 28-07-2010 11:52AM

seanynova wrote: »

tues 27th, 5.1m Recovery 44:34mins @8:45m/m aveHR147. 23deg

did this one nice and slowely, not sure how that HR compares to what it should be, i have no idea of my max, 220 - (0.7 x 28) = 200max? so i was at 74% today then, that ok?

anyway have a medium long run tomorrow morning so will hopefully be ok for that!

total weekly mileage: 22m

That sounds fine. That will help you recover.

I was meant to do a race today but have turned it down because Im too tired. Medium long run instead. I did 5-6 hard sessions in the last 2 weeks and was feeling teh training was getting out of my control.

Did my long run on monday at a slightly easier pace, a very easy recovery/ stretching yesterday and Im starting to feel more in control.

I would take the first workbout of your tempo on the easy side of the scale.
Even 6.40 pace taking account of heat. After that you can adjust. Nothing wrong with dropping the speed of a tempo session slightly either if youre feeling slightly fatigued.

village runner wrote: »

lets say you have done a tempo or long run on a sunday. why would you do strides on a monday ?? my legs do be tender/sore so wouldnt dare do that. I might do 2 fast days in a row but then i would have 3-4 easy days. wont argue as every one is different. obey the body is number 1.

The strides Im talking about are done at 5k race pace. They are to remove viscosity or sluggishness in the legs. They are not "hard" strides as such.

I wouldnt do them after a tempo run as there wouldnt be a need. But sometimes after a long run if I was feeling sluggish, I might do 5 or 6 at 5k pace for 80m. I would probably do more strides in the early part of a build up /base training where it's all aerobic. I agree though that if doing anything on a recovery day inhibits the recovery it should be dropped. But we can agree to disaagree about after Long runs.:)

seanynova · 28-07-2010 12:48PM

T runner wrote: »

That sounds fine. That will help you recover.

I was meant to do a race today but have turned it down because Im too tired. Medium long run instead. I did 5-6 hard sessions in the last 2 weeks and was feeling teh training was getting out of my control.

Did my long run on monday at a slightly easier pace, a very easy recovery/ stretching yesterday and Im starting to feel more in control.

I would take the first workbout of your tempo on the easy side of the scale.
Even 6.40 pace taking account of heat. After that you can adjust. Nothing wrong with dropping the speed of a tempo session slightly either if youre feeling slightly fatigued.

yup, cheers....i might work of HR for the 1st ine, see what im pacing at a given HR and go from there for the next 3.

i saw on your log, that you did anither animal 2k session, but with even faster times! hard going id say.
and as always the mileage is high.
im going to try and balance the med/high mileage im doing after the rest week next week, work with daniels 100%, 90% and 80% weeks.

T runner · 28-07-2010 01:30PM

seanynova wrote: »

yup, cheers....i might work of HR for the 1st ine, see what im pacing at a given HR and go from there for the next 3.

i saw on your log, that you did anither animal 2k session, but with even faster times! hard going id say.
and as always the mileage is high.
im going to try and balance the med/high mileage im doing after the rest week next week, work with daniels 100%, 90% and 80% weeks.

Yep last week was high but I was too tired on sunday for the long run.

Only doing 2 sessions a week max + long run from now on, and if Im feeling tired Ill substitute a medium long run for a session. I reckon its a good exchange becuase youre getting the miles in too.

The 2ks were tough. The guy I was with was faster than me so had to keep up with him as best I could. he broke the wind for me for teh first 6 but then he upped it for the last 3 and I decided to hold back to marathon pace.

First time I jogged the 2 mins rest, this time we rested.

Part of my thinking skipping this race tonight is to be fresh for 10 by 2k on friday. Going to do a long hillrun in teh mournes on Sunday which will be good for strenght and I reckon a race/hard tempo today might take the good out of the weekends training.

Anyway, your confidence will come back soon. Just keep the running nice and controlled till then. The consistency and volume will make you stronger, and more economical.

seanynova · 28-07-2010 02:20PM

Yep last week was high but I was too tired on sunday for the long run.

Only doing 2 sessions a week max + long run from now on, and if Im feeling tired Ill substitute a medium long run for a session. I reckon its a good exchange becuase youre getting the miles in too.

to me, even thats a hard weeks training. im counting my LSR or LSR/Tempo as a hard session, + 1 tempo session...the rest are easy or med long, aerobic.
although a few weeks before the marathon(like P&D), if im feeling good ill add in an interval session, maybe a week before the half (or 5m if i do that).

The 2ks were tough. The guy I was with was faster than me so had to keep up with him as best I could. he broke the wind for me for teh first 6 but then he upped it for the last 3 and I decided to hold back to marathon pace.

First time I jogged the 2 mins rest, this time we rested.

with the pace your running, they seam more like long intervals but then again your marathon targets are MUCH lower than my expectations, Daniels refers to rest periods for most of his sessions so i guess it doesnt have to be at "rec" pace, a slow jog/walk is what i do between intervals, i dont stop though cos i can feel the legs tightning!

Part of my thinking skipping this race tonight is to be fresh for 10 by 2k on friday. Going to do a long hillrun in teh mournes on Sunday which will be good for strenght and I reckon a race/hard tempo today might take the good out of the weekends training.

i would prob to that also, try and stick to the marathon programme as much as possible with the odd race thrown in here and there to keep things ticking over...but as i found out, can over do it either with the quality sessions and racing.

Anyway, your confidence will come back soon. Just keep the running nice and controlled till then. The consistency and volume will make you stronger, and more economical.

just realised that it took me until week 3 of my last programme to do a 10k in 40:59mins, after which i used mcmillan to set my training paces, tempo was 6:40-7:00m/m then for the following 4 weeks.
im already ahead of that programme mileage wise, and tempo too for that matter, so im hoping over the next 2-3weeks ill see my tempo steady a bit at what i would hope to be < 6:30m/m, but even 6:30m/m would be ahead of where i was in the last attempt

seanynova · 29-07-2010 03:24AM

wed 28th, 13m Easy, 1:45:50mins @8:08m/m avHR150; 21deg

didnt take any liquid on this one, didnt really need it but it might have helped, ran late in the evening so sun was going down, not that strong!

ran this handy with one eye on HR, never saw it rise above 150 but that was also the average so it must have popped up once or twice...funny cos i ran less mileage yeaterday at 37sec per mile slower and had the same-ish avHR (8:45m/m aveHR147)
hopefully im putting the fatigue thing behind me, a very slow 6miler tomorrow will help also.

total weekly mileage: 35m

seanynova · 29-07-2010 04:07PM

thurs 29th, 6m Easy, 00:51:22mins @ 08:33m/m avHR142 20deg.

again took this one nice and slow in prep for tomorrows tempo session....i think ill aim for a pace of 6:30-6:40, and if the average is 6:40 then so be it, ill be happy to get through the tempo session with that pace.
idea being not to let lactate build in the legs, so no point in it turning into an long VO2max interval sesion!

HR is levelling/coming down also:
tues: 5m 8:45m/m aveHR147 (76%maxHR?)
wed: 13m 8:08m/m avHR150 (77%maxHR?)
thurs: 6m 08:33m/m avHR142 (73%maxHR?)

total weekly mileage: 41m

seanynova · 30-07-2010 04:33PM

Fri 30th, 12.25m Easy/Tempo, 1:31:06mins @ 7:26m/m avHR163 21deg.

4x12min Tempo c/w 2min rest.
Tempo Splits:
6:34/6:31/6:27/6:24m/m

Easy pace: 7:35/8:54m/m

Very happy after this session!

Weather forcast was for cloudy/rain and even thunder storms(not good) so i thought perfect! (bar the lightning) wasnt looking forward to this but the weather forcast gave me no better day to do it. so off i went, wearing a singlet, no sun screen or hat...giving myself every chance of completing this run.
as usual, foracsts were wrong, was sunny for almost the whole thing bar a few clouds! but to be honest it wasnt that bad except i had no sun prtection!

was conservative with the 1st tempo as didnt want to run out of steam early but i felt good throughout the session, prob pushed a little hard on the last one towards the end as HR went up to 180 but i didnt mind.

think ill set my tempo pace around 6:25-6:30m/m for the next few weeks and go from there.

on the cool down my, the ball of my right foot was sore! alarming, could be due to mileage......iceing it now and ill rest it as much as i can.

total weekly mileage: 53m

T runner · 30-07-2010 11:59PM

seanynova wrote: »

Fri 30th, 12.25m Easy/Tempo, 1:31:06mins @ 7:26m/m avHR163 21deg.

4x12min Tempo c/w 2min rest.
Tempo Splits:
6:34/6:31/6:27/6:24m/m

Easy pace: 7:35/8:54m/m

Very happy after this session!

Weather forcast was for cloudy/rain and even thunder storms(not good) so i thought perfect! (bar the lightning) wasnt looking forward to this but the weather forcast gave me no better day to do it. so off i went, wearing a singlet, no sun screen or hat...giving myself every chance of completing this run.
as usual, foracsts were wrong, was sunny for almost the whole thing bar a few clouds! but to be honest it wasnt that bad except i had no sun prtection!

was conservative with the 1st tempo as didnt want to run out of steam early but i felt good throughout the session, prob pushed a little hard on the last one towards the end as HR went up to 180 but i didnt mind.

think ill set my tempo pace around 6:25-6:30m/m for the next few weeks and go from there.

on the cool down my, the ball of my right foot was sore! alarming, could be due to mileage......iceing it now and ill rest it as much as i can.

total weekly mileage: 53m

Excellent session. Do you need new runners or insoles re the foot?

tisnotover · 31-07-2010 10:36AM

seanynova wrote: »

4x12min Tempo c/w 2min rest.
Tempo Splits:
6:34/6:31/6:27/6:24m/m

Very nice session, 4x12min is tough going and nice splits for it, good mileage too for week, well done !

seanynova · 01-08-2010 06:28AM

T runner wrote: »

Excellent session. Do you need new runners or insoles re the foot?

cheers, session was good, really enjoyed it!
not sure about the foot, its like the big toe tendon is sore just under the ball of my foot, front of my arch, feels ok-ish now, after ipuprofen and iceing.
not sure what has causes it but it might be the new shoes not suiting me?
mizuno wave inspire 6s, but i feel as if my stride is different due to trying to increase cadence, maybe im landing more on my forefoot now?
might take tomorrow off just to be precautious....53m is ok for a tiring week anyway.
on hols now so can and should rest this week but still get in a few runs!

seanynova · 01-08-2010 06:30AM

tisnotover wrote: »

Very nice session, 4x12min is tough going and nice splits for it, good mileage too for week, well done !

ya cheers, it was good going, very happy with it, going to set the tempo pace at 6:30 now for the next few weeks and bring it down to 6:25 and 6:20 after 6-8weeks?

going to take and easy week now...well deserved i think

seanynova · 02-08-2010 04:44AM

decided to give todays run a miss, am on hols and it also gives my foot more time to heal. still got in 53miles last week so i wont loose much by missing todays 5 or 6miler...

Week 5
not sure how this will go, its a recovery week but also reduced cos of holidays....i might still get out for a LSR tomorrow morning, depending on how early i wake up and how my foot goes....hoping for 16miles.
the rst of the week will be made up of prob 1 or 2 short easy runs...who knows!

seanynova · 02-08-2010 05:47PM

Mon 2nd, 18m, 2:22:44mins @ 7:55m/m avHR154 18deg

got out for a sneaky run this morning early. happy with pacing and how my foot felt, could have kept going also, so all in all, a good run.

smmoore79 · 02-08-2010 06:00PM

seanynova wrote: »

Mon 2nd, 18m, 2:22:44mins @ 7:55m/m avHR154 18deg

got out for a sneaky run this morning early. happy with pacing and how my foot felt, could have kept going also, so all in all, a good run.

Good running there, its a nice sign that you still had some in the tank. Esp in 18 deg heat that must have been tough

seanynova · 03-08-2010 05:48AM

smmoore79 wrote: »

Good running there, its a nice sign that you still had some in the tank. Esp in 18 deg heat that must have been tough

thanks, but i had to do an LSR/Tempo run last week in 26deg heat, ended badly, in fact, the start and middle were also horrible....give me 18degs any day over here! :cool:

seanynova · 09-08-2010 01:53AM

Wed 4th, 8m Aerobic, 57:27mins @7:11m/m avHR161 25degs, (Temp TBC)

Thurs 5th, 4m Easy, no time, no pace, avHR140ish

Fri 6th, Sick

Sat 7th, Sick

Sun 8th, Sick-ish but also had to fly

Total weekly mileage: 30m

As above this week was almost a complete disaster. That said, this was supposed to be a recovery week so I guess I got that achieved, I did do an 18miler earlier in the week but would have been much happier if I had got to do the Tempo session planned for Friday! This would have been a total of 7m Tempo out of 12 or so miles….
Going into Week 6 now and not in good shape really, had food poisoning for the last few days and to be honest I didn’t eat much(almost nothing) in 3days! Not sure I’ll have enough energy for a hard week, with a PMP session planned for Tuesday.

Week 6, as below:
Mon: 5m Easy
Tues: 17m Easy/PMP
Wed: 13m Easy
Thurs: 5m Easy + strides
Fri: 11m Easy/Tempo
Sat: Rest
Sun: 5m Easy + strides

Total weekly mileage: 56m

T runner · 09-08-2010 11:52AM

Dont worry about the few days sick, that happens from time to time and youve got rest as you say. Plenty of fruit, veg and vitamin c now to get your system back up!

seanynova · 09-08-2010 07:17PM

T runner wrote: »

Dont worry about the few days sick, that happens from time to time and youve got rest as you say. Plenty of fruit, veg and vitamin c now to get your system back up!

Thanks T runner, as always you're the voice of continence for me.

Unfortunately, I’m still not feeling too well today so might skip the 5m easy....and do a LSR tomorrow instead of a PMP session....hmmm, there is always something!!!:(

T runner · 09-08-2010 08:21PM

seanynova wrote: »

Thanks T runner, as always you're the voice of continence for me.

Unfortunately, I’m still not feeling too well today so might skip the 5m easy....and do a LSR tomorrow instead of a PMP session....hmmm, there is always something!!!:(

Its easy for me to say but if you can look at the situation as you being not feeling well today and plan youre training from there. What i mean is often missed sessions etc start to put pressure on us when they are missed forcing us to try and catch up. Youre wise to cancel teh PMP. Id shorten the LSR too to a medium one. If youre not feeling up to that run easy or not at all. Dont feel you are in debt for a session or two. Its unusual not to have a little down time. Dont try and cram these sessions in to yoru schedule. If youve missed one youd really like to do sunstitute for another session. But dont make the schedule tougher as a result and dont put yourself under pressure.

Again easy for me to say. I am actually anxious because after my race on saturday I think I need another 10k race (next sat) to prepare for warriors run. I know in my heart though that if i just chalk it down, learn my lessons (make my sessions less strenuous) and keep the mileage high and generally easy, Ill be fine. Id give that advice immediately to someone else but when its me Im still a bit conflicted!

And dont forget getting over a bit of sickness is often a part of running and a skill in itself so eat well, rest up and look after yourself!

seanynova · 10-08-2010 03:28AM

T runner wrote: »

Its easy for me to say but if you can look at the situation as you being not feeling well today and plan youre training from there. What i mean is often missed sessions etc start to put pressure on us when they are missed forcing us to try and catch up. Youre wise to cancel teh PMP. Id shorten the LSR too to a medium one. If youre not feeling up to that run easy or not at all. Dont feel you are in debt for a session or two. Its unusual not to have a little down time. Dont try and cram these sessions in to yoru schedule. If youve missed one youd really like to do sunstitute for another session. But dont make the schedule tougher as a result and dont put yourself under pressure.

Again easy for me to say. I am actually anxious because after my race on saturday I think I need another 10k race (next sat) to prepare for warriors run. I know in my heart though that if i just chalk it down, learn my lessons (make my sessions less strenuous) and keep the mileage high and generally easy, Ill be fine. Id give that advice immediately to someone else but when its me Im still a bit conflicted!

And dont forget getting over a bit of sickness is often a part of running and a skill in itself so eat well, rest up and look after yourself!

Good advice, and I honestly took it on board, but about 3 or 4hours later I actually felt ok....went for a swim, had dinner, went down well and decided to do an easy 4miler at slow pace, just to keep me ticking over.
I really had conceded that a run was not on the cards today, but when the dinner went down well I gave it a go....
But, thanks again for your support, your advice was sound and it didn’t fall on deaf ears...just as it happened things got better for me today, eat a lot of carbs, pasta, cereal, rice, veg and fruit....drank loads of OJ, ginger ale and water also....still not 100%, will prob take a few days, but I think I’m good enough for a med long run tomorrow, I’ll start out on 13mile route and extend it if it goes well, if not ill pull up at the house and do the LRS another day...

Monday 9th, 4m, 32:46mins @8:11m/m avHR150 Temp 24degs

Total weekly mileage: 4m

smmoore79 · 10-08-2010 09:24AM

I havent run since last thursday so I know that panicky feeling when you miss a few sessions!! Once ya get over the sickness completely and get a few runs under your belt you'll be back on track. Ease yourself back into it, nothing too mad. Sounds just like the advice you gave me!!!!

seanynova · 10-08-2010 02:16PM

smmoore79 wrote: »

I havent run since last thursday so I know that panicky feeling when you miss a few sessions!! Once ya get over the sickness completely and get a few runs under your belt you'll be back on track. Ease yourself back into it, nothing too mad. Sounds just like the advice you gave me!!!!

looks like im easing my way back into it alright...but wanted to do more.

tues 10th, 7m, 56:53mins @8:07m/m avHR156 17-22degs + v high humidity!!!

couldnt keep the HR down and had tummy issues from early on so knew this wasnt going to be a med long run, pulled up early as it would have killed the rest of the week if i continued.
not too happy with this but what can i do....

total weekly mileage: 11m

seanynova · 11-08-2010 04:13PM

Wed 11th, 20m, 2:42:48mins @8:08m/m avHR157 22degs

After yesterdays abandoned run I was feeling too good going into today’s run. woke up at 7am, nice and overcast/foggy outside....decided not to have breakfast as the tummy wasn’t feeling all that great, popped an Imodium, took on a bit of water and got dressed but didn’t manage to start running until after 8!

Started out nice and slowly, HR was around 140-145, which is very low for me so was happy, around mile 4, my tummy was reminding me that not all was well and to keep an eye out for bushes!

got to 6.5m and it was time to turn around to complete the 13m loop, again tummy was active...came to a split in the road where if I took a right it would be 2miles home and left would be 4m, wasn’t sure at that stage if the tummy would hold up but I took the longer route as there was 2 toilets on the way. At this stage the HR was hovering around 155ish, but with the sun high in the sky at this stage it made its way up to 160bpm by the time I finished the 13mile route planned. Stopped at home for water and decided to do another loop as the tummy had settled a bit. Going well until mile 15, pace around 8:00m/m ish...but was forced to slow down from 15 on as the HR was creeping up to 165bpm!!! pace slowed to 8:20m/m ish, was really warm at this stage and no shade from the sun but dragged along to finish the 20miles...could have been better but still happy to get it done.

Total weekly mileage: 31m

seanynova · 12-08-2010 04:34PM

thurs 12th, 5m Recovery, 46:36mins @9:19m/m avHR138 22-23degs

very slow recovery today, wanted to achieve a few things with this one, keep the HR low, recover from yesterdays run and not take anything out of me for tomorrows tempo run.
woke up this morning and my body was aching afters yesterdays "form deterorating" and glycogen depleting LSR and with a 7m Tempo planned for tomorrow really needed to take it easy.

total weekly mileage: 36m

T runner · 12-08-2010 04:50PM

seanynova wrote: »

Wed 11th, 20m, 2:42:48mins @8:08m/m avHR157 22degs

After yesterdays abandoned run I was feeling too good going into today’s run. woke up at 7am, nice and overcast/foggy outside....decided not to have breakfast as the tummy wasn’t feeling all that great, popped an Imodium, took on a bit of water and got dressed but didn’t manage to start running until after 8!

Started out nice and slowly, HR was around 140-145, which is very low for me so was happy, around mile 4, my tummy was reminding me that not all was well and to keep an eye out for bushes! got to 6.5m and it was time to turn around to complete the 13m loop, again tummy was active...came to a split in the road where if I took a right it would be 2miles home and left would be 4m, wasn’t sure at that stage if the tummy would hold up but I took the longer route as there was 2 toilets on the way. At this stage the HR was hovering around 155ish, but with the sun high in the sky at this stage it made its way up to 160bpm by the time I finished the 13mile route planned. Stopped at home for water and decided to do another loop as the tummy had settled a bit. Going well until mile 15, pace around 8:00m/m ish...but was forced to slow down from 15 on as the HR was creeping up to 165bpm!!! pace slowed to 8:20m/m ish, was really warm at this stage and no shade from the sun but dragged along to finish the 20miles...could have been better but still happy to get it done.

Total weekly mileage: 31m

Good run well done. Know the feeling of the last few miles there well. Nice one to have in the bag.

I AMsterdam 2010

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