Legality of overtaking

21-07-2010 11:38PM

esel wrote: »

Your deduction would be correct if the statement read 'If it's legal, it's safe'.

Correct. Also, if the statement wasn't a direct response to a specific situation.

But to clarify my initial post: If it's safe to overtake multiple cars in a row, assuming a broken line, clear line of sight and no oncoming traffic, it's legal, if it's not, it's illegal. You can't separate the two

pah · 22-07-2010 10:11AM

Ok - the answer to the question is it legal? is YES - in so far as it is not against the law to overtake more than one car at a time. Overtaking several cars at once is not an offence in itself.

Tragedy · 22-07-2010 02:56PM

concussion wrote: »

To overtake 4 cars travelling at 85 km/h while travelling at 100 km/h yourself will take more than 30 s and 500 to 750 m will not give you enough road. Neither will the cars be travelling 1 to 1.5 car lengths apart.

Take four Mondeo's, each approx 4.8 m long. At 85 km/h they will travel 23.6 m every second, so obeying the 2 second rule results in a separation of 48 m. If you are following 1 second behind and intend to pull in 1 second ahead of the first car after the overtake you will need to travel 207 m @ a relative speed of 15 km/h. To overtake all the cars ahead will take you 49.75 seconds and you will cover 1381.94 m in doing so, longer if you factor in accelerating from 85 to 100 km/h.

The actual seperation between each of the four mondeo's will be between 5-10m if you're lucky.

So, say 56.7m of traffic to pass, which is under 14s to overtake and under 400m to travelled start to finish.

Slightly more realistic figures to what you posted.

In answer to the OP, if you're thinking of the massive straight after Dunkerrin - it's fine to overtake as many cars as you like there as long as you do it safely and don't break the speed limit. I've overtaken 20+cars there before(not in one go, 3 or 4 at a time) without going over 108km/h(according to GPS)!
Also overtook a Garda car there, he was doing 90 and I waited for my chance, overtook doing exactly 100, not a bother.

This is the straight in question btw: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Unknown+road&daddr=52.934807,-7.833109&hl=en&geocode=FXhxJwMdYnGH_w%3B&mra=mi&mrsp=1,0&sz=13&sll=52.921634,-7.873249&sspn=0.07845,0.222988&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=13

Zambia · 22-07-2010 10:48PM

pah wrote: »

Ok - the answer to the question is it legal? is YES - in so far as it is not against the law to overtake more than one car at a time. Overtaking several cars at once is not an offence in itself.

I guess so , do us a favour fill out an Organ Donor card.

Esel · 23-07-2010 12:38AM

Sorry, we only provide complete brains.

padunne · 04-08-2010 03:00PM

Thats a fair stretch of a straight road. Reminds me of one on way to headford in galway. Was told it was 8 miles but not sure. Il have a look for it.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Unknown+road&daddr=52.934807,-7.833109&hl=en&geocode=FXhxJwMdYnGH_w%3B&mra=mi&mrsp=1,0&sz=13&sll=52.921634,-7.873249&sspn=0.07845,0.222988&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=13

concussion · 05-08-2010 08:13PM

Tragedy wrote: »

The actual seperation between each of the four mondeo's will be between 5-10m if you're lucky.

So, say 56.7m of traffic to pass, which is under 14s to overtake and under 400m to travelled start to finish.

Slightly more realistic figures to what you posted.

In answer to the OP, if you're thinking of the massive straight after Dunkerrin - it's fine to overtake as many cars as you like there as long as you do it safely and don't break the speed limit. I've overtaken 20+cars there before(not in one go, 3 or 4 at a time) without going over 108km/h(according to GPS)!
Also overtook a Garda car there, he was doing 90 and I waited for my chance, overtook doing exactly 100, not a bother.

This is the straight in question btw: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Unknown+road&daddr=52.934807,-7.833109&hl=en&geocode=FXhxJwMdYnGH_w%3B&mra=mi&mrsp=1,0&sz=13&sll=52.921634,-7.873249&sspn=0.07845,0.222988&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=13

There are 9 intersections marked on that part of the road, which means you shouldn't be using the entire 5 km stretch to overtake.

Tragedy · 06-08-2010 12:15AM

concussion wrote: »

There are 9 intersections marked on that part of the road, which means you shouldn't be using the entire 5 km stretch to overtake.

The entire stretch is legal to overtake, no single white line // no overtaking signs at any point.
After doing Dublin > Limerick > Dublin lots over the last 2 years, that stretch is a blessing.

concussion · 06-08-2010 10:12AM

One of the answers to the question "When should you not overtake?" is "When approaching a junction."

Cookie_Monster · 06-08-2010 11:32AM

you should never have to overtake more than one car at once but because nobody ever leaves a big enough gap you frequently do. Having said that, its perfectly legal to do if safe to do so.

Tragedy · 06-08-2010 03:14PM

concussion wrote: »

One of the answers to the question "When should you not overtake?" is "When approaching a junction."

They aren't junctions unless signed and marked as such.

concussion · 06-08-2010 03:24PM

What are your sources for this? I would be interested in seeing the definition of a junction, seeing as this discussion is about the legality of overtaking.

Saruman · 06-08-2010 03:25PM

The way I look at it is this. Two or three cars are about the length of an artic so if it is safe to overtake the truck it would be just as safe to overtake the two or three cars that are driving too close and not overtaking.

I say just because there is the added risk of one of the cars at the last second deciding to overtake the one in front and not noticing you.

Tragedy · 06-08-2010 03:47PM

concussion wrote: »

What are your sources for this? I would be interested in seeing the definition of a junction, seeing as this discussion is about the legality of overtaking.

Because it's not illegal to overtake at a junction, it's illegal to overtake where there are no overtaking signs (via continuous white line).

25. (1) Where traffic sign number RRM 001 [continuous white line] has been provided on a roadway or where two such traffic signs are provided in parallel, a driver shall not cross that sign or signs.

(2) Where traffic sign number RRM 002 [broken white line] has been provided on a roadway, a driver shall not cross that line, save where it can be crossed without danger to other traffic or pedestrians.

(3) Where traffic sign number RRM 001 and traffic sign number RRM 002 have been provided in parallel and traffic sign RRM 001 is nearer, a driver shall not cross such line, and where traffic sign number RRM 002 is nearer, a driver shall not cross the line save where it can be crossed without danger to other traffic or pedestrians.

(4) Nothing in this article shall so operate as to prevent a driver from driving across a roadway, along the centre of which the traffic signs referred to have been provided, for the purpose of entering or leaving land or premises adjoining the right hand side of that roadway.

The only mention of overtaking at junctions I can find anywhere in statutes is this from 1937, and I have no idea whether it's still active or not.

(1) Whenever a vehicle (in this paragraph referred to as the overtaking vehicle) is passing on a roadway another vehicle (in this paragraph referred to as the overtaken vehicle) proceeding in the same direction as the overtaking vehicle, the following provisions shall apply and have effect, viz.:—

(a) the driver of the overtaking vehicle shall not pass or attempt to pass the overtaken vehicle in such manner or circumstances as to cause inconvenience to the overtaken vehicle or to any other traffic ;

(b) the driver of the overtaking vehicle shall not, for the purpose of passing the overtaken vehicle, drive the overtaking vehicle on the right side of the centre of such roadway or on the right side of the traffic lane appropriate to the overtaking vehicle unless there is clearly visible to such driver a portion on such roadway which—

(i) is available for the overtaking vehicle, and

(ii) is free from approaching traffic and any obstruction, and

(iii) is sufficient in length and width for the safe completion of such passing, due allowance being made for the possibility of approaching traffic suddenly appearing ;

(c) the driver of the overtaking vehicle shall pass the overtaken vehicle on the right side of the overtaken vehicle and shall not close in towards the left until the passing has been completed and such closing in will not cause inconvenience to the driver of the overtaken vehicle ;

(d) the driver of the overtaking vehicle shall not pass or attempt to pass the overtaken vehicle when approaching a road junction in such circumstances that such passing will not be completed before the overtaking vehicle is within thirty feet of such road junction unless either—

(i) the driver of the overtaking vehicle has a clear view of the traffic at such road junction and the traffic approaching it from every direction and there is no such traffic which would be inconvenienced by such passing, or

(ii) the driver of the overtaking vehicle has been authorised to proceed by a signal lawfully given by a member of the Gárda Síochána or a mechanical traffic control signal ;

Zambia · 06-08-2010 03:54PM

2 or 3 cars are not the length of an artic :rolleyes:

Esel · 06-08-2010 10:50PM

Tragedy wrote: »

Because it's not illegal to overtake at a junction, it's illegal to overtake where there are no overtaking signs (via continuous white line).

When approaching a junction on the right, it may not be illegal to overtake, but it is definitely brain-dead stupid - unless you can can clearly see that there is no traffic approaching the junction on the other road.

Saruman · 08-08-2010 02:04PM

Zambia232 wrote: »

2 or 3 cars are not the length of an artic :rolleyes:

Care to explain how that is?

Zambia · 09-08-2010 01:51AM

Saruman wrote: »

Care to explain how that is?

Three cars will not be travelling nose to nose they could have, 1 to two cars spaces in fact they should at least have about 2-3 car spaces if travelling at 80Kmph

Ergo thats 3 cars plus a minium of 2 car spaces for 2 of them. Thats 7 Cars at least.

Tragedy · 09-08-2010 02:23AM

18.75m = average length of artic.

Toyota Corolla = 4.2m
3x Corolla = 12.6m
Gap of 3m between cars at 80km/h is pretty realistic here in ireland.

Zambia · 09-08-2010 02:48AM

Tragedy wrote: »

18.75m = average length of artic.

Toyota Corolla = 4.2m
3x Corolla = 12.6m
Gap of 3m between cars at 80km/h is pretty realistic here in ireland.

There is a whole other point rising its head there, is 3 M between cars realistic

At 80 kmph, the reaction time i.e. when you take your foot off the accelerator and onto the brake pedal is 15 metres. The braking distance is another 38 metres. So, you need 53 metres to come to a complete halt. This is the shortest stopping distance in perfect conditions, that is if your tyres and brakes are good, the road is dry and the visibility is good. If the visibility is poor and roads are wet then the stopping distance will increase.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050806/saturday/motoring.htm

Sorry the article is from the Indian tribune. But I will assume unless corrected that the info is true.

The article also does not equate for the car ahead still moving even if the brakes are hit. But even cutting it in half thats still way to short a distance

Saruman · 09-08-2010 12:06PM

Realistic... yes.

Recommended? No.

It is in fact reality but I am not even thinking of 80kph. I often come across a load of cars packed together with not even a car length between them.
The driver at the front holding everyone up might be doing 60 - 65kph. The driver behind is pretty much riding his arse but will not overtake even though its perfectly safe and so is the car behind him.

Since the length of all three cars including distance between them is equal to or less than an artic, and I would overtake an artic in this situation then I deem it safe to overtake all three cars.

In my opinion this should be cracked down on, not the overtaking but the scenario that leads to multi car overtaking.
I think the Gardai should stop the car holding everyone up AND the car behind for driving too close and not overtaking and so preventing other people from overtaking one car at a time which is safer than overtaking multiple cars.

Zambia · 09-08-2010 09:57PM

Ah I see at <60kmph 3 cars may equal an artic.

I was talking about 80Kmph

As for the gardai enforcing minium speed limits. Yeah Im gonna leave that for someone else. Night

Legality of overtaking

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