Legality of overtaking

Tefral

This may belong in the motors forum, but it is a question directly aimed at a Garda,

Say you have ideal conditions, broken white line, visability for say 500-750m in both directions, dry ground etc.

Would it be legal to over take 3-4 cars in one go? (obviously no speed limit broken here)

Say for argument sake the limit was 100km/hr and the cars being over took were doing 85km/hr.

No other reason for knowing this other than to make myself aware in case the opportunity arises..

pa990

illegal.

Anyway.. White lines would hardly be put on as straight stretch of road of 1km to 1.5km with perfect visibility with out reason.

There must be junctions, dips, climbing lanes, etc.

If you aren't able to read the road and foresee what hazards exist, maybe you shouldn't be overtaking

gerrycollins

whats the distance between the cars been overtaken

Mena

cronin_j wrote: »

Say you have ideal conditions, broken white line, visability for say 500-750m in both directions, dry ground etc.

pa990 wrote: »

illegal.

Anyway.. White lines would hardly be put on as straight stretch of road of 1km to 1.5km with perfect visibility with out reason.

There must be junctions, dips, climbing lanes, etc.

It's not a continuous white line...

McCrack

There's nothing illegal about overtaking more than one vehicle at a time so long as the move is legal and safe.

By legal I mean a broken median line and speed limit observed. By safe I mean enough distance and sight to complete without causing danger to others.

Tefral

say the there is a distance of half to one car between each car.

I meet this situation the whole time driving from limerick to dublin just before roscrea. My car is powerful enough to do the whole thing in less than 30 seconds, but i never go for it incase the middle car is a cop car, i cant see how it is illegal but id rather know first before i make the call to do it someday.

pa990

pa990 wrote: »

illegal.

How?

Tefral

pa990 wrote: »

Anyway.. White lines would hardly be put on as straight stretch of road

Eh.. They are there to divide the road down the middle, in fact all roads have white lines that i have driven on bar the country roads around my house where grass divides the road...

hierro

wouldn't try it....

if you take the example and all is perfect in the world and be it that you are only overtaking one car, you would only reach 500mts 3 seconds earlier and 750mts four seconds earier so to take three or four cars would leave it tight....

sometimes it is these decisions that cost.....


although my maths maybe flawed....

Tefral

hierro wrote: »

sometimes it is these decisions that cost.....

Oh i know what you mean, i would be careful and decisions such as these would weigh heavily on my mind but im looking to see if it is actually illegal if it was actually safe to do it.

Paddysnapper

McCrack wrote: »

There's nothing illegal about overtaking more than one vehicle at a time so long as the move is legal and safe.

By legal I mean a broken median line and speed limit observed. By safe I mean enough distance and sight to complete without causing danger to others.

I agree!

Zambia

If you are taking over 3-4 cars I am assuming you will be on the wrong side of the line for too long unless you were traveling at an un-safe speed. By this I assume the white broken line assumes the overtaking is of one car or truck.

Every time I have seen this done it is done at high speed.

Wether legal or not its a bad move.

Lurching

I really don't see how it could be illegal if you can do it at or under the speed limit and still have enough space to complete the manouver should something appear around the corner, travelling towards you also sitting at the speed limit.

Common sense prevails, but that doesn't rule out catching a Gard on a bad day.

Zambia

Lurching wrote: »

I really don't see how it could be illegal if you can do it at or under the speed limit and still have enough space to complete the manouver should something appear around the corner, travelling towards you also sitting at the speed limit.

Common sense prevails, but that doesn't rule out catching a Gard on a bad day.

The law states you cannot cross the broken white line unless safe to do so. you also cannot speed while overtaking. 3-4 cars is a combined possible 6-7 car lengths traveling at 85kmph is no easy task to overtake while staying under 100kmph in your vehicle.

So chances are you are going to either speed or be unsafe during the procedure.

Plus I can think of no single lane road I ever drove in ireland that was that straight for that long with no traffic.

concussion

To overtake 4 cars travelling at 85 km/h while travelling at 100 km/h yourself will take more than 30 s and 500 to 750 m will not give you enough road. Neither will the cars be travelling 1 to 1.5 car lengths apart.

Take four Mondeo's, each approx 4.8 m long. At 85 km/h they will travel 23.6 m every second, so obeying the 2 second rule results in a separation of 48 m. If you are following 1 second behind and intend to pull in 1 second ahead of the first car after the overtake you will need to travel 207 m @ a relative speed of 15 km/h. To overtake all the cars ahead will take you 49.75 seconds and you will cover 1381.94 m in doing so, longer if you factor in accelerating from 85 to 100 km/h.

Tefral

concussion wrote: »

To overtake 4 cars travelling at 85 km/h while travelling at 100 km/h yourself will take more than 30 s and 500 to 750 m will not give you enough road. Neither will the cars be travelling 1 to 1.5 car lengths apart.

Take four Mondeo's, each approx 4.8 m long. At 85 km/h they will travel 23.6 m every second, so obeying the 2 second rule results in a separation of 48 m. If you are following 1 second behind and intend to pull in 1 second ahead of the first car after the overtake you will need to travel 207 m @ a relative speed of 15 km/h. To overtake all the cars ahead will take you 49.75 seconds and you will cover 1381.94 m in doing so, longer if you factor in accelerating from 85 to 100 km/h.

Interesting calculation! cheers!

Still doesnt inform me though if overtaking several cars at once is deemed as careless driving if all the conditions are right on an empty road.

meathstevie

It is not careless driving if it's not done carelessly, simple as that. Personally I could think of a scenario on a road I travel nearly daily but I'm not going to go in to such detail. It can be done safely and legally but on most two lane single carraigeways it's highly unlikely.

If you're about motorways and dual carriageways it's a different story.

Fighting Irish

Garda should start harrassing people who drive to close to other vehicles, making it impossible/dangerous for other people to overtake

deadwood

concussion wrote: »

To overtake 4 cars travelling at 85 km/h while travelling at 100 km/h yourself will take more than 30 s and 500 to 750 m will not give you enough road. Neither will the cars be travelling 1 to 1.5 car lengths apart.

Take four Mondeo's, each approx 4.8 m long. At 85 km/h they will travel 23.6 m every second, so obeying the 2 second rule results in a separation of 48 m. If you are following 1 second behind and intend to pull in 1 second ahead of the first car after the overtake you will need to travel 207 m @ a relative speed of 15 km/h. To overtake all the cars ahead will take you 49.75 seconds and you will cover 1381.94 m in doing so, longer if you factor in accelerating from 85 to 100 km/h.

That's what I was going to say.

Esel

deadwood wrote: »

That's what I was going to say, but couldn't be arsed doing all those hard sums.

FYP

pah

cronin_j wrote: »

Interesting calculation! cheers!Still doesnt inform me though if overtaking several cars at once is deemed as careless driving if all the conditions are right on an empty road.

No but given the conditions you described, concussion gave you the scenario of overtaking 4 standard cars travelling @ 85km/hr, where you are 1 sec behind the tail car and pull in 1 sec ahead of the lead car, leaving no margin for error @ 100km/hr this would need 1.38km of straight road.So lets say you have 1.5km of straight road to the next bend - 700 metres into the maneouveur a car comes around the corner on the other side of the road. You still have 638 metres to go and that car is coming at you let's say at 100km/hr.I'll let concussion do the maths but you won't make that without speeding up.So really you need in excess of 2km straight road and perfect conditions.Show me the place in Ireland where this is and then YES it will be legal and it will be safe.

concussion

Keeping it simple, if the oncoming car is also travelling at 100 km/hr you have to double the distance.

If you start the manouvre you will therefore need 2600 m plus a safe distance between you and the oncoming car (say 100 m, or 2 secs, before you both occupy the same space at the same time ) in order to be utterly sure of completing the overtake. Anything less and you will not be 100% sure that a car wont come towards you while you are overtaking. Abandoning the overtake by forcing between the cars on the left would result in a gap of about 20 m (1 sec) between cars which is pretty dangerous too.

Zambia

Correct me if I am wrong but crashing into someone else is not illegal.

Its the actions that lead to that event you are prosecuted for.

Hooch

Zambia232 wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong but crashing into someone else is not illegal.

Its the actions that lead to that event you are prosecuted for.

Thats interpretation of the law (while I agree with you....). Some judges see the collision itself as dangerous driving.....and that any collision is dangerous driving.

So no matter what the facts they will convict for Sec 53, 52 or 51a

Zambia

concussion wrote: »

Keeping it simple

you lost me after this piont

Zambia

nice guy always wrote: »

Thats interpretation of the law (while I agree with you....). Some judges see the collision itself as dangerous driving.....and that any collision is dangerous driving.

So no matter what the facts they will convict for Sec 53, 52 or 51a

So by the rational employed even as there is no law against overtaking three cars.

As soon as it was explianed that you where over taking 3 cars at that speed.

One of the above sections would also easily fit the bill if a Garda decided it did.

sesna

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Garda should start harrassing people who drive to close to other vehicles, making it impossible/dangerous for other people to overtake

Maybe they are waiting for a longer stretch of road to overtake - a 1.6 litre engine car needs more clear road to complete manouver safely than the 3.5 litre engine car tailgating it.

johnmcdnl

Say the 3 cars are doing 30kph on a 100kph section of road.. because there's a tractor in front say or something..

then are you legally allowed to pass out all the cars in one go or does it have to be 1 by 1...

is it legal to pass all out at once.. that's what the OP is asking... not whether it's safe to or not... his 85kph cars were hypothetical - is it legal.. simple as that... we don't need to know the maths of how much distance he would need.. is it legal is the question

28064212

johnmcdnl wrote: »

is it legal to pass all out at once.. that's what the OP is asking... not whether it's safe to or not...

:pac: If it's safe, it's legal, if it's not, it's illegal. You can't separate the two. To answer your question, there is no legal requirement to pass cars out 1 at a time, but typically, there are fewer opportunities where you can legally (safely) pass out more than one

sesna

28064212 wrote: »

:pac: If it's safe, it's legal, if it's not, it's illegal. You can't separate the two. To answer your question, there is no legal requirement to pass cars out 1 at a time, but typically, there are fewer opportunities where you can legally (safely) pass out more than one

Off to buy a few boxes of cigarettes so.

Esel

sesna wrote: »

Off to buy a few boxes of cigarettes so.

Your deduction would be correct if the statement read 'If it's legal, it's safe'.