How many signatures will it take to get Cowen Resign

newfrontier · 03-08-2010 09:05PM #1

Hi Guys have a look at petitions.ie there is a petition going to get Cowen to resign. My question is this how many signatures would it take to get cowen to resign? He is putting the by elections off ...to stay in power and he will do all he can to stay in power. But if we got a lot of signatures behind this .I mean everyone united and focused on one task .could it work?

cypharius · 03-08-2010 09:09PM

On an online petition? 6,000,000,000.

On a real petition? Same thing.

In short, don't waste your time.

Gunmonkey · 03-08-2010 10:35PM

Doesnt matter how many signatures you get, Cowen will just go "meh" and throw the petition in the bin. He knows he is in power for the next 2 years and there is pretty much F all we can do to force him out. losing the Dail majority might do it but the lack of by-elections nails that coffin.

PKen · 03-08-2010 11:13PM

First of all, are you suggesting a leadership change or replacing the whole government? If it's an election you want, what difference will getting rid of Biffo and Fianna Fail do? Is Eamon Gilmore going to be any better? Labour haven't said were the cuts are going to be (and they WILL be in the next government).
We have to cut a further 3 Billion this year and Gilmore/Labour are going to cut nothing! A painless budget? Wake up. I'm no fan of this current corrupt FF crowd, but we have to become solvent again as a nation or we're finished.
I hope Brian Lenihan holds his nerve and sees down the "Don't Cut My Money - Cut Him Instead" brigade. Everyone, including Public Sector and Old Age Pensioners (sorry) will have to take some pain. God knows, the rest of us have.

ninty9er · 03-08-2010 11:26PM

There's only one signature needed for that. His own.

Why shoud he resign based on what people have accrued as "fact" from papers that proclaim polar opposites to be true day-in-day-out?

As far as online petitions, the only thing more useless than online petitions is the storage space wasted to host them.

Liam Byrne · 03-08-2010 11:57PM

ninty9er wrote: »

There's only one signature needed for that. His own.

Why shoud he resign based on what people have accrued as "fact" from papers that proclaim polar opposites to be true day-in-day-out?

As far as online petitions, the only thing more useless than online petitions is the storage space wasted to host them.

Hmmm.....making it up as they go along and contradicting themselves with a different story every day......wonder who they learnt that from ?

Oh - for the record I've given up reading most newspapers, so your attempt as discrediting opinions is ridiculous.

ninty9er · 04-08-2010 12:03AM

:rolleyes:

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Hmmm.....making it up as they go along and contradicting themselves with a different story every day......wonder who they learnt that from ?

Oh - for the record I've given up reading most newspapers, so your attempt as discrediting opinions is ridiculous.

Liam Byrne · 04-08-2010 12:13AM

ninty9er wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Did you have a point to make with that, or are you somehow disputing that Ahern and Lenihan and Cowen and O'Dea and Callely have been expert at changing their stories daily on topics from Lehman's to Anglo to dig-outs to brothel accusations to living arrangements ?

People in glasshouses.....

Wide Road · 04-08-2010 09:56PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Hmmm.....making it up as they go along and contradicting themselves with a different story every day......wonder who they learnt that from ?

Oh - for the record I've given up reading most newspapers, so your attempt as discrediting opinions is ridiculous.

Hmmmmm...... We live in a democracy. Hmmmm..... Why have elections if we only need petitions? Hmmmmm.... Would people stop being ridiculous and speak about the thread.

paddyland · 05-08-2010 10:12AM

Cowen would no more honour a public petition than Mugabe or Kim Jung Il.

He is already emulating their form of autocracy by withholding democratic by-elections to artificially protect his withering hold on power. What next? Withholding a general election too?

We may yet have to storm that place...

MySelf56 · 05-08-2010 10:33AM

Signing a petition is like miss world talking of world peace. Honestly the dumbest thing i heard, i thought some non-political thread. You have choice to elect every 4/5 yrs. At least this time make your choice correct and also "its like", "ipad","chill/cool" generation use their voting right. Given the epitomy of lazyness can be seen in voting turnout.

PKen · 05-08-2010 10:52AM

paddyland wrote: »

Cowen would no more honour a public petition than Mugabe or Kim Jung Il.

He is already emulating their form of autocracy by withholding democratic by-elections to artificially protect his withering hold on power. What next? Withholding a general election too?

We may yet have to storm that place...

A general election will be held in 2012 (or sooner). Everybody should get out and vote as MySelf56 has said. Too many people never vote and then bitch about who's in power!
You said "We may yet have to storm that place". That "place" as you call it, is where YOUR government sits. You, me and all voters decide who goes to "that place". We still live in a democracy.

05-08-2010 11:14AM

ninty9er wrote: »

There's only one signature needed for that. His own.

Why shoud he resign based on what people have accrued as "fact" from papers that proclaim polar opposites to be true day-in-day-out?

As far as online petitions, the only thing more useless than online petitions is the storage space wasted to host them.

Speaking of wasted storage space..i wonder how much more of our money will be wasted storing those pesky electronic voting machines??? He should resign because neither he, nor his party have any credibility left at this stage. But i forgot..its FF we're talking about here so to expect morals or decency is probably asking too much...

PeterIanStaker · 05-08-2010 11:52AM

PKen wrote: »

A general election will be held in 2012 (or sooner). Everybody should get out and vote as MySelf56 has said. Too many people never vote and then bitch about who's in power!
You said "We may yet have to storm that place". That "place" as you call it, is where YOUR government sits. You, me and all voters decide who goes to "that place". We still live in a democracy.

When the General Election takes place, Biffo & Lenihan will go to Tony O'Reilly's house the week before for a little chat. So it hardly matters who signs a petition or who even votes for that matter. Democracy my hole.

aidan_walsh · 05-08-2010 11:53AM

Save your petition for the ballot box.

Wide Road · 05-08-2010 01:31PM

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Save your petition for the ballot box.

Correct. You just summed it up.

bmaxi · 05-08-2010 04:38PM

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

When the General Election takes place, Biffo & Lenihan will go to Tony O'Reilly's house the week before for a little chat. So it hardly matters who signs a petition or who even votes for that matter. Democracy my hole.

Tony O' Reilly only has one vote, same as you or anybody else. If people choose to take the spoutings of the media over the evidence of their own eyes then there really is no hope.
It is not sufficient for the people just to get rid of FF from government, we must get rid of the major players in that organisation, at the same time letting whomever replaces them know that the free lunch has finished serving.

PeterIanStaker · 05-08-2010 04:50PM

bmaxi wrote: »

If people choose to take the spoutings of the media over the evidence of their own eyes then there really is no hope.

Thats the point I was trying to make.

Denerick · 05-08-2010 04:59PM

Cowen resigns.

Fianna Fáil politician 'x' takes over.

Well that changes a lot.

PomBear · 05-08-2010 05:19PM

oh what a democracy we live in where only 1 in 5 voters supports the government, the same government who are leaving 3 constituencies unrepresented because they want their government to survive even though though nobody wants them

jmayo · 05-08-2010 05:43PM

ninty9er wrote: »

There's only one signature needed for that. His own.

Why shoud he resign based on what people have accrued as "fact" from papers that proclaim polar opposites to be true day-in-day-out?
...

Lets have a look at some of the facts that this government and it's leadership have left the citizens of the state.

1. We have a current budget deficit in the region of 20 billion thanks to the public spending decisions of the previous regimes, which had many of the current one as major players (most of the ministers indeed share that commonality espeically the taoiseach).

2. Due to the lack of fiscal regulation by IFSRA and Central Bank which fall under the remit of the Dept of Finance, which was under the control of the current taoiseach between 2004 and 2008, we have had a total collapse of the Irish financial system resulting in two institutions being nationalised and one posting the WORLD's biggest financial loss in 2009.

3. Due to point 2 and the decisions taken to bail out said financial institutions, we have a position where the Irish taxpayers have had to pour over 20 billion euro into two defunct insolvent now nationalised financial institutions whose former management would be resting in jail if they happened to practice their management style in any other western democracy.

4. Due to the short sighted economic decisions implemented by the previous regime, of which our current taoiseach was the finance minister with respopsibility for economic and tax policies, we have had a jump in unemployment of the order of 250,000.

5. We have a health system that costs a huge portion of our tax revenue yet is an unmitigated disaster that allows kids in care to die, old to die in unmonitored nursing homes, cancer patients to be misdiagnosed, etc etc.

Now which of the above are not FACTS ?

Now you can spin these facts any which way, you can drag in red herrings like Lehmans or sindo bad journalism, but you will still arrive back to a realisation that is finally dawning on most citizens of this state, bar the myopic soldiers of destiny like yourself, that mr cowen has been responsible for setting this country's economic outlook back generations.

The only signatures I would like to see are on arrest warrants (and sentencing documents) for all the corrupt unethical incompetent arrogant connected pampered gobdaws, including ones with the names cowen and aherne. :mad:

Denerick · 05-08-2010 06:18PM

jmayo wrote: »

Lets have a look at some of the facts that this government and it's leadership have left the citizens of the state.

1. We have a current budget deficit in the region of 20 billion thanks to the public spending decisions of the previous regimes, which had many of the current one as major players (most of the ministers indeed share that commonality espeically the taoiseach).

The budget deficit was caused by a collapse in boom time revenues which the entire political spectrum imagined would go for ever and ever and ever. The only difference is that Fianna Fáil were in power. Fine Gael and Labour's senseless populist antics hold no illusion over me. If anything, both parties were promising both tax cuts (Labour promising to reduce the lower tax rate to 16% - thus decimating our tax base - and they also promised massive extra government spending. Fine Gael were promising a cut in stamp duty and an end to road tolls. Realistically if they had implemented the policies they championed our deficit would have been much worse. Which leads me to think that people will realistically overlook the facts for the sake of petty partisanship. This kind of delusion is not good for our country.

2. Due to the lack of fiscal regulation by IFSRA and Central Bank which fall under the remit of the Dept of Finance, which was under the control of the current taoiseach between 2004 and 2008, we have had a total collapse of the Irish financial system resulting in two institutions being nationalised and one posting the WORLD's biggest financial loss in 2009.

The only party of the big three calling for greater regulation in the financial markets was the Labour Party. We were merely following the light touch regulation regimes that were in vogue at the time, and arguably were the biggest contribution to our credit boom which essentially created the 'Irish Economic Miracle' - which of course was an economic illusion.

3. Due to point 2 and the decisions taken to bail out said financial institutions, we have a position where the Irish taxpayers have had to pour over 20 billion euro into two defunct insolvent now nationalised financial institutions whose former management would be resting in jail if they happened to practice their management style in any other western democracy.

What were the alternatives and what were Labour and Fine Gael proposing to do?

4. Due to the short sighted economic decisions implemented by the previous regime, of which our current taoiseach was the finance minister with respopsibility for economic and tax policies, we have had a jump in unemployment of the order of 250,000.

I had to laugh at this. You mean the short sighted economic decisions the people of Ireland have demanded election after election after election? Politicians run to win elections. Citizens should be virtuous and hold their Republic to account. I care very little for their whinging after the event.

When will you people accept that the Irish people are rotten to the very core? You don't blame a dog for being a dog - I don't blame a politician for being a politician (IE, trying to win elections) The citizens of this country have to take responsibility for being selfish egotistical individualistic nihilists who were more than prepared to pass off the responsibilities and debt to their grandchildren by voting to continue on the boom times. I don't hold Cowen in much blame. As the old saying goes, he just did what anyone else would have.

Liam Byrne · 06-08-2010 09:39AM

Denerick wrote: »

I don't blame a politician for being a politician (IE, trying to win elections)

....assuming that's what you believe a politician should do. Their "job", however, is not "to win elections", it's to govern ethically, responsibly and sustainably.

Denerick wrote: »

The citizens of this country have to take responsibility for being selfish egotistical individualistic nihilists who were more than prepared to pass off the responsibilities and debt to their grandchildren by voting to continue on the boom times.

I didn't vote for that, so less of the emotive bull****, please.

Denerick wrote: »

I don't hold Cowen in much blame. As the old saying goes, he just did what anyone else would have.

Can I call you on "Irish Psychics Live" ? And I presume - given that argument - you don't believe in arresting drug dealers either, because if they didn't sell drugs then someone else would have ?

kilburn · 06-08-2010 09:40AM

there isnt enough people in the EU to sign it to get him out.

Denerick · 06-08-2010 10:16AM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

....assuming that's what you believe a politician should do. Their "job", however, is not "to win elections", it's to govern ethically, responsibly and sustainably.

Ideally politicians should be held to account by their citizens. The stark reality is that Fianna Fáil were consistently returned to power by the Irish electorate. I'm afraid I can only blame the people, as they gave the government their legitimacy. Politicians should aim to win elections, that is their function after all. Whether they govern ethically is determined by the people who elect them, and they didn't seem to care either way.

I didn't vote for that, so less of the emotive bull****, please.

You voted for one of the big three, so I assume you in essence agreed with the political consensus of the times.

Can I call you on "Irish Psychics Live" ? And I presume - given that argument - you don't believe in arresting drug dealers either, because if they didn't sell drugs then someone else would have ?

What a ridiculous thing to say. Drug dealers earn their living vis a vis drug users. Politicians earn their living from the voters. If the voters decide to return a party consistently guilty of what are perceived as bad economic policies, then it only stands to reason that the government were merely abiding by the wishes of the people.

If you don't slap a dog for pissing in your kitchen, how do you expect it to ever learn?

jmayo · 06-08-2010 10:36AM

Denerick wrote: »

The budget deficit was caused by a collapse in boom time revenues which the entire political spectrum imagined would go for ever and ever and ever. The only difference is that Fianna Fáil were in power. Fine Gael and Labour's senseless populist antics hold no illusion over me. If anything, both parties were promising both tax cuts (Labour promising to reduce the lower tax rate to 16% - thus decimating our tax base - and they also promised massive extra government spending. Fine Gael were promising a cut in stamp duty and an end to road tolls. Realistically if they had implemented the policies they championed our deficit would have been much worse. Which leads me to think that people will realistically overlook the facts for the sake of petty partisanship. This kind of delusion is not good for our country.

Ah yes I see you are using one of the favourite ffer mantras that is resorted to once "it was all Lehmans fault" argument is thrown out.
It doesn't matter what the f*** the others MAY have done.
ff DID IT and with such affectiveness that the country is crippled.

I would love to see you managing the defence in a murder trial.
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the other people there on the night may also have killed the victim if they had a chance, so that means the defendent is not really that guilty."

It is you that is delusional if you think that blaming somebody else for what they might have done will absolve ff of blame for crippling the country.
BTW FG had been against benchmarking and that was one of the big reasons for jump in public sector spending.

Denerick wrote: »

What were the alternatives and what were Labour and Fine Gael proposing to do?

Ah so it is the fault of FG and Labour. :rolleyes:
Perhaps it is the fault of the Brits or maybe the Germans for saving money and them allowing it be lent out around Europe ?

Denerick wrote: »

I had to laugh at this. You mean the short sighted economic decisions the people of Ireland have demanded election after election after election? Politicians run to win elections. Citizens should be virtuous and hold their Republic to account. I care very little for their whinging after the event.

It is up to government to lead not meekly follow what vested interests and supporters want.
Of course that principle is alien to ff and their cohorts.

BTW if you are a parent do you give into every little demand from your kids or do you take a long term balanced approach even if it is unpopular in the short term ?
That is what good government is like, of course again ff's only concern is getting elected and f*** it if the country suffers long term.

I don't think the vast majority of people in this country ever wanted house prices to be allowed go throught the roof.
So the biggest factor in creating a bubble economy was allowed go unhindered by the ff led government.
Hell it was exaserbated by their tax policies.

I do agree I don't like former ff supporters/voters now whinging for electing a bunch of lying unethical, often corrupt incompetents.

Denerick wrote: »

When will you people accept that the Irish people are rotten to the very core? You don't blame a dog for being a dog - I don't blame a politician for being a politician (IE, trying to win elections) The citizens of this country have to take responsibility for being selfish egotistical individualistic nihilists who were more than prepared to pass off the responsibilities and debt to their grandchildren by voting to continue on the boom times. I don't hold Cowen in much blame. As the old saying goes, he just did what anyone else would have.

Yes there are a fairly sizeable bunch of people that are rotten to the core, who couldn't give a sh** about the long term and I bet you will find most of them vote for ff. :rolleyes:

Denerick · 06-08-2010 10:38AM

No offence, but I couldn't make any sense out of your post whatsoever. Take a valium or something.

jmayo · 06-08-2010 11:09AM

Denerick wrote: »

No offence, but I couldn't make any sense out of your post whatsoever. Take a valium or something.

Perhas I should just go and follow bertie's advice rather than complain :rolleyes:

Denerick · 06-08-2010 11:24AM

jmayo wrote: »

Perhas I should just go and follow bertie's advice rather than complain :rolleyes:

No, but you could structure your complaints a little better. We all have problems and are pissed off with the current situation, thats no excuse to write a poorly written diatribe that takes no account of external factors or a lack of internal alternatives.

jimmycrackcorm · 06-08-2010 11:41AM

jmayo wrote: »

Lets have a look at some of the facts that this government and it's leadership have left the citizens of the state.

Well then let's consider some other factors. Firstly does anyone actually believe that had fg or any other party been in power they world have destroyed the boom to ensure a good fiscal future? Can you imagine any party standing up and having said "listen lads we need to throw all these construction workers on the dole because the boom will end anyway and we'll save money in the long run". You can picture the media headlines about the government actively destroying jobs..

Secondly it was us, the people, who voted the government in during the last election because we didn't want the party time to change. Now we have the hangover we're looking to blame the party organizer for us freely attending it.

I say "we" because there's not much point in anyone posting that they personally didn't vote for ff.

Liam Byrne · 06-08-2010 12:11PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I say "we" because there's not much point in anyone posting that they personally didn't vote for ff.

That is a ridiculous statement.

OK - so there are lots of voters who condone incompetence and corruption (about 20% last count) - but THEY voted for FF, not WE.

THEY borrowed too much, not WE.

I love the way it's all collective "WE" when the **** hits the fan, but when Seanie & Co were making billions and Ahern was getting free houses and dig-outs worth a year's salary WE didn't see any of it. :mad:

How many signatures will it take to get Cowen Resign

Comments