Which of the M6, M7, M8, and M9 has the greatest traffic catchment area?

Amtmann · 02-08-2010 4:00pm #1

Any ideas? What motorway has the most potential to most grow its AADT in the next twenty years?

Chris_5339762 · 02-08-2010 4:28pm

M7 I guess, only because it effectively services Limerick, Cork and Waterford in places

KevR · 02-08-2010 5:24pm

M6 west of Rathmorrissey will see a big jump in numbers once the M17/18 opens.

The Galway Bypass will increase traffic on the M6 also when it eventually gets built.

charlemont · 02-08-2010 5:31pm

M9 only because its closer to dublin, with 2 large towns kilkenny and carlow plus athy, suitable to commute to waterford or dublin..M1 for the same reasons, dundalk and drogheda, newry, banbridge,

Amtmann · 02-08-2010 6:31pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

M7 I guess, only because it effectively services Limerick, Cork and Waterford in places

Very true... say the M7 west of the M8 interchange so.

I'm not talking about towns directly served by junctions; rather areas the would use the motorway by going through other places first: e.g.: West Cork (Skibb, Clonakilty, Bandon, etc.) uses the M8 to access Dublin.

darkman2 · 02-08-2010 6:45pm

Ah I see why only these 4 roads are included. The M50, M1, M4, M2, M11 and M3 have more people in the catchment areas then all put together so no point asking:o

Hogzy · 02-08-2010 7:44pm

Furet wrote: »

I'm not talking about towns directly served by junctions; rather areas the would use the motorway by going through other places first: e.g.: West Cork (Skibb, Clonakilty, Bandon, etc.) uses the M8 to access Dublin.

I dont really get what your saying, been studying all day and the brain is fried

Can you word it a bit different?

Amtmann · 02-08-2010 8:38pm

Hogzy wrote: »

I dont really get what your saying, been studying all day and the brain is fried
Can you word it a bit different?

Ok: the M8 is Dublin to Cork City, and it obviously serves all towns located in the immediate vicinity of the route. My question relates to towns and areas NOT immediately next to the route that are nonetheless served by the M8, such as towns like Skibbereen, because anyone in or near Skibb that wants to drive to Dublin will be taking the M8 once they reach Cork. Now, taking all these 'far-flung' towns and hinterlands into account, which of the new interurbans serves the greatest number of far-flung towns?

My brain is fried too, and that's the best I can manage right now...:o

Tech3 · 02-08-2010 8:41pm

M7 will be serving a large area. South Clare, County Limerick, some of county tipp, offaly and Kerry will use the M7. Also the M6 will attract a lot of traffic. For me it would be either the M6 or M7.

Hogzy · 02-08-2010 8:42pm

Furet wrote: »

Ok: the M8 is Dublin to Cork City, and it obviously serves all towns located in the immediate vicinity of the route. My question relates to towns and areas NOT immediately next to the route that are nonetheless served by the M8, such as towns like Skibbereen, because anyone in or near Skibb that wants to drive to Dublin will be taking the M8 once they reach Cork. Now, taking all these far-flung towns and hinterlands into account, which of the new interurbans serve the greatest number of 'far-flung' towns?

My brain is fried too, and that's the best I can manage right now...:o

Ahhh i get ya now...

Amtmann · 02-08-2010 8:47pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

M7 I guess, only because it effectively services Limerick, Cork and Waterford in places

tech2 wrote: »

M7 will be serving a large area. South Clare, County Limerick, some of county tipp, offaly and Kerry will use the M7.

I was thinking it'd be the M7 as well. Yet it's traffic counts aren't exorbitantly high when compared to the M8 or M6. I'm expecting a substantial growth in AADT in the next decade or so as people make the journey to Dublin more often, owing to better roads and reduced journey times.

Hogzy · 02-08-2010 9:02pm

Furet wrote: »

I was thinking it'd be the M7 as well. Yet it's traffic counts aren't exorbitantly high when compared to the M8 or M6. I'm expecting a substantial growth in AADT in the next decade or so as people make the journey to Dublin more often, owing to better roads and reduced journey times.

How long do you think it will be before the M7 (from M8 turnoff to Naas) will be upgraded to three lanes?
Would you see it happening in the next 10yrs?
You really can notice a significant congestion difference on this stretch however if people only knew how to use the right lane correctly alot of this congestion would be eliminated.

Dum_Dum · 02-08-2010 9:26pm

Without doubt the M8. The south-west is the most populated region outside of the Dublin hinterland. Some journeys to Kerry would use the M7. The M9 serves the next most populus region although the M11 serves Wexford.

Amtmann · 02-08-2010 11:06pm

Hogzy wrote: »

How long do you think it will be before the M7 (from M8 turnoff to Naas) will be upgraded to three lanes?
Would you see it happening in the next 10yrs?

Certainly not within the next 20 or 30 years or more. I just can't see it being necessary before then and even if it was, the response would be slow.

Hogzy · 02-08-2010 11:11pm

Furet wrote: »

Certainly not within the next 20 or 30 years or more. I just can't see it being necessary before then and even if it was, the response would be slow.

Inevitably our motorways will have to be upgraded to 3 lanes...in the distant future. Will it be tough to do? Would all the bridges have to be rebuilt?

L1011 · 02-08-2010 11:12pm

M7 to M9 diverge is medium-term planned and was programmed by the NRA before the moneygeddon occured. All the way to the M8 diverge is very long term if ever.

Amtmann · 02-08-2010 11:18pm

Hogzy wrote: »

Inevitably our motorways will have to be upgraded to 3 lanes...in the distant future. Will it be tough to do? Would all the bridges have to be rebuilt?

I don't think it's inevitable at all.... just the sections where interurban routes converge. For the most part it wouldn't be too hard (the M7 and M1 have broad central divides that could be used for additional lane space). Certainly I can't ever see the M6, M8 and M9 (and the M7 west of the motorway-motorway interchanges) ever at capacity. Most bridges would present no problems, bar the M7/M8 bridges, and any others which have supports at the sides of the carriageway rather than in the centre.

Carawaystick · 02-08-2010 11:42pm

I don't think it's inevitable that the roads will ever need widening. Looking at the network in France, the A10 is D2M most of the way between Paris and Bordeaux and onto the Basque side of Spain as the E05 (N10/A63) On the other side of France, the A9 is D2M from Perpignan south to the Border. This route is planned to be upgraded at some stage, but considering the sheer amount of trade these two routes carry ad they function fairly well as D2M as it is.

Elsewhere the Autoroute des deux Mers from Bordeaux to Narbonne is D2M, bar climbing lanes on the hilly bits, something we don't really have bar a bit of the N8 (hilly bits, not climbing lanes)

The A4 west of Reims is only D2M and that's one of the main routes from Paris to Germany

Danno · 02-08-2010 11:54pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

The A4 west of Reims is only D2M and that's one of the main routes from Paris to Germany

Indeed... and no room for a third lane under this bridge... http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=49.031869,4.46967&spn=0,0.877533&t=h&z=10&layer=c&cbll=49.031869,4.46967&panoid=i3eIiMgiSTgInOnIE_es3w&cbp=12,295,,0,5

Aard · 03-08-2010 9:50am

When driving to Dungarvan, we've used both the M8 and M11 in the past. We've reached Thomastown by M11. Youghal was the M8. Now they'd all be done on the M9.

johnbk · 03-08-2010 10:54am

This should give an idea from
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/geography/settlement.html

johnbk · 03-08-2010 11:18am

If you looked at the second of these two maps (and know nothing else about Ireland) annd were asked to draw a suitable motorway network, I dont think you could come up with anything that looks like what we have now.

Hogzy · 03-08-2010 11:27am

johnbk wrote: »

If you looked at the second of these two maps (and know nothing else about Ireland) annd were asked to draw a suitable motorway network, I dont think you could come up with anything that looks like what we have now.

Its data is nearly 20 years old. Ireland has grown substantially since then. If you did a 2010 version you would see a hell of a lot of towns get larger icons and towns that are not represented on the map have become much larger so would be represented by an icon.

Eg. in 2006 Ennis had 25k people and Bandon had 5k+ people.

testicle · 03-08-2010 11:30am

Furet wrote: »

Ok: the M8 is Dublin to Cork City, and it obviously serves all towns located in the immediate vicinity of the route. My question relates to towns and areas NOT immediately next to the route that are nonetheless served by the M8, such as towns like Skibbereen, because anyone in or near Skibb that wants to drive to Dublin will be taking the M8 once they reach Cork. Now, taking all these 'far-flung' towns and hinterlands into account, which of the new interurbans serves the greatest number of far-flung towns?

My brain is fried too, and that's the best I can manage right now...:o

Objection! The M8 is Cork to somewhere west of Abbeyleix.

Stark · 03-08-2010 11:39am

Furet wrote: »

I was thinking it'd be the M7 as well. Yet it's traffic counts aren't exorbitantly high when compared to the M8 or M6. I'm expecting a substantial growth in AADT in the next decade or so as people make the journey to Dublin more often, owing to better roads and reduced journey times.

I know I for one use the M8 a lot when heading to Kerry (especially if it's South Kerry) but once the M7 is finished, I'll be switching over to using the M7 route as the N21 is much better road than the N73/N72. It's just at the moment, the single carriageway sections on the N7 are headwreckers.

Jayuu · 03-08-2010 4:40pm

Stark wrote: »

I know I for one use the M8 a lot when heading to Kerry (especially if it's South Kerry) but once the M7 is finished, I'll be switching over to using the M7 route as the N21 is much better road than the N73/N72. It's just at the moment, the single carriageway sections on the N7 are headwreckers.

Yes, I was going to ask this same question about Kerry.

This year I went to Killarney from Dublin by going the M7/M8 to Cork, then the N25 around the city and on to the N22 to Killarney. Bar delays in Macroom it wasn't a bad journey at all. I came back via the N72/N73 to Mitchelstown and then the M8/M7 to Dublin and felt it was just as handy a route (although parts of the N72 are a nightmare!).

But I did wonder if the M7 was completed whether it would be better to go the Limerick route for Kerry in which case you would include most of the Kerry in the M7 catchment area.

ClareVisitor · 03-08-2010 5:31pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

I don't think it's inevitable that the roads will ever need widening. Looking at the network in France, the A10 is D2M most of the way between Paris and Bordeaux and onto the Basque side of Spain as the E05 (N10/A63) On the other side of France, the A9 is D2M from Perpignan south to the Border. This route is planned to be upgraded at some stage, but considering the sheer amount of trade these two routes carry ad they function fairly well as D2M as it is.

Elsewhere the Autoroute des deux Mers from Bordeaux to Narbonne is D2M, bar climbing lanes on the hilly bits, something we don't really have bar a bit of the N8 (hilly bits, not climbing lanes)

The A4 west of Reims is only D2M and that's one of the main routes from Paris to Germany

But then again you'd be mad to go far in your car in France unless you had to. Taking the train between major cities (especially to or from Paris) would be quicker than driving. Add to that no stress from the drive, probably comparable price and it's a no-brainer. There's nothing comparable in Ireland, unless you're made of money and have all the time in the world to spare then the car is the only way to go. Imagine if France had Ireland's railways, how many people would be in their cars then?

Jayuu · 03-08-2010 5:55pm

Hogzy wrote: »

Its data is nearly 20 years old. Ireland has grown substantially since then. If you did a 2010 version you would see a hell of a lot of towns get larger icons and towns that are not represented on the map have become much larger so would be represented by an icon.

Eg. in 2006 Ennis had 25k people and Bandon had 5k+ people.

I didn't bother with towns in the 5-10K region (as there were too many for the Republic and I couldn't get data for Northern Ireland) but here is a map based on the 2006 census data for the Republic and 2004 data for Northern Ireland. And actually I think you'd still end up with a road network fairly close to what we what. Feel free to use and come up with suggestions!

Chris_5339762 · 03-08-2010 5:59pm

I'd say with the exceptions that the M11 wouldnt exist and that the M8 would have been routed down the current M9 via Kilkenny, and split somewhere there before heading across to Cahir and Fermoy etc, rather than the way it is.

Also Northern Ireland would have a rake more motorways.

Jayuu · 03-08-2010 6:17pm

Actually I tend to agree with you. Here's roughly what I ended up with (motorways only!).

Much as it might cause consternation from a political sense it's hard to justify motorway into the North-West except perhaps through a link to a Northern Ireland motorway from Newry to Derry.
The M8 (as in the Cork road) would as you suggest come further south and split off the M9 somewhere around Kilkenny and thus bring Clonmel closer to access. The M11 disappears apart from a spur to Bray. The Outer Orbital appears and Limerick to Waterford allows for a Limerick link to Cork via the Dublin-Cork motorway. Finally Galway to Limerick connects all the motorway at outer extremes to form part of an Atlantic Corridoor.

Its an interesting exercise. I looked at a number of different alternative but I don't think you'd end up with a radically different network to what we currently have.

amacachi · 03-08-2010 6:24pm

Furet wrote: »

I don't think it's inevitable at all.... just the sections where interurban routes converge. For the most part it wouldn't be too hard (the M7 and M1 have broad central divides that could be used for additional lane space). Certainly I can't ever see the M6, M8 and M9 (and the M7 west of the motorway-motorway interchanges) ever at capacity. Most bridges would present no problems, bar the M7/M8 bridges, and any others which have supports at the sides of the carriageway rather than in the centre.

The M1 hasn't got a wide enough median for widening from Dundalk to Dunleer and the Balbriggan by-pass is a bit too narrow as well I think. The last couple of parts which opened seem to have the bridges designed for widening but there are a few bridges which would have to be modified somehow.

Which of the M6, M7, M8, and M9 has the greatest traffic catchment area?

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