Feminism - an Egalitarian term?

amacachi · 01-08-2010 03:59AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tt-67LKFHE

Ah no, those women are just HAVING A LAUGH!

OutlawPete · 01-08-2010 04:05AM

amacachi wrote: »

Ah no, those women are just HAVING A LAUGH!

How about these women?

They even wave money at the men and grope them, almost like they are pieces of meat :mad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cHt68-OQzk

amacachi · 01-08-2010 04:10AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

How about these women?

They even wave money at the men and grope them, almost like they are pieces of meat :mad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cHt68-OQzk

Ah no, all those women are just there for a bit of group fun, it's in no way sexual or misandrist, because the women aren't getting off sexually on it. Sure the room will get more humid, and their plastic-coated seats will get slippery, but it's not sexual, sure women aren't like that. And anyway, if those men are being treated like pieces of meat it's because they're fine with it, just like male models and male porn stars, but not like female pornstars or strippers, they're just controlled by men or the "partiarchy", sure everyone knows that!

vicecreamsundae · 01-08-2010 04:12AM

amacachi wrote: »

Ah no, all those women are just there for a bit of group fun, it's in no way sexual or misandrist, because the women aren't getting off sexually on it. Sure the room will get more humid, and their plastic-coated seats will get slippery, but it's not sexual, sure women aren't like that. And anyway, if those men are being treated like pieces of meat it's because they're fine with it, just like male models and male porn stars, but not like female pornstars or strippers, they're just controlled by men or the "partiarchy", sure everyone knows that!

how many strip clubs are there in ireland where guys can go to see women any night of the week?
and how often does some knock off chippendale troupe do a little tour of the country?

the difference is EVERYTHING.

amacachi · 01-08-2010 04:16AM

vicecreamsundae wrote: »

how many strip clubs are there in ireland where guys can go to see women any night of the week?
and how often does some knock off chippendale troupe do a little tour of the country?

the difference is EVERYTHING.

If I knew the answer to either of those you can bet your arse I wouldn't be here on the internet at 4.15 on a Saturday night.

OutlawPete · 01-08-2010 04:40AM

vicecreamsundae wrote: »

how many strip clubs are there in ireland where guys can go to see women any night of the week?

and how often does some knock off chippendale troupe do a little tour of the country?

the difference is EVERYTHING.

So, men are oppressing women because there are not enough Male Lap Dancing clubs?

Look, women will never pay to look at men dancing naked in the same numbers that men will pay to see naked women.

They don't need to, pulling guys isn't exactly hard.

It's all about supply and demand, not oppression.

Anyway, here's a place in the UK, email them and tell them you want an Irish branch:

*NSFW*

http://www.pleasureladiesnights.co.uk/

01-08-2010 09:27AM

ok i this is getting waylaid into the outskirts of what i believe feminism really stands for . Dilute the cause enough and throw a few militants into the equation and everybody can laugh at it as a belief. so this is how i define myself as a feminist.

I dont care about strippers prostitutes pornography if the woman who participate in these huge industries are making informed choices and enjoy what they do .

I dont care about the media it works both ways on the main

I dont care about jokes or movies or jibes directed at woman we can make jokes about men to.

I do care that as a woman in this country you do not have the right to a safe termination in this country and have to travel elsewhere to receive medical treatment, either that or convince the state/ medical profession that you have the right to do what you want with your own body

i do care that there are still very few woman in positions of power in this country both in politics and industry

I do care that woman are currently taking contraceptive medicine in this country which have been banned in america for causing infertility and various cancers, and that most of these woman are under the age of 30

i do care about the rights of woman around the world ( such as woman being stoned to death, burned with cooking oil, have limbs removed or are murdered by there own family (so called honor killings) and if i can help these woman i will by petitioning there governments and supporting organisations which help them .

I dont think just because i support the rights of woman in some of these issues it automatically cancels out my support of other groups or genders

Wagon · 01-08-2010 10:16AM

Femenism was a great thing once. It was started by women because of the complete lack of control and rights that they had as human beings. It was one of the most important things to happen in the last century. In the western world at least, it's worked and the society has changed dramitically and for the better.

But at the start, these women were fighting for equality. they wanted equal rights, probably because they knew what it was like to be oppressed. For me, the term used to mean equality because of what the movement wanted.

However, feminists today seem to be fighting for revenge, rather than equality. Men can't really stand up and say they don't agree with it because they will be called evey name under the sun and labelled sexist. It's acceptable for these bra burning lunatics to say how ****e we are and god help us if we disagree...

I'll give you an example, few of my mates were out for one of the lads birthdays. Few of the women were out too, just mates. The lads decided to pitch in and get the birthday boy a lapdance for the laugh so they went to a club. Bouncer said, "sorry folks, its lads only tonight, women can't come in im afraid". So they just said fair enough and decided to head to a place that was less exclusive but not before my feminist mate who was there gave your man an absolute bollocking and abused him to hell, screaming about sexism and women's rights...

Can't help but wonder, why can women have Anne Summers partys where the "no men rule" is heavily enforced, and men can't have their own little space?

I'll ask her when i get a chance but i dont think that'll happen for a while. I can't face having a discussion because i know ill get the abuse too cos im a bloke and i dont understand.

Feminism should be targeted twoards the middle east and fighting for the rights of women there. Those are the people in need for it, desperately.

Annasopra · 01-08-2010 10:48AM

Wagon wrote: »

Feminism should be targeted twoards the middle east and fighting for the rights of women there. Those are the people in need for it, desperately.

I don't agree. There are still a huge amount of problems within Irish society faced by women. Lack of abortion, equal pay, care work is undertaken by unpaid and undervalued women (did you know in Venezuela that work in the home is paid by the state?), a political system based on male culture that does not encourage female participation

Gary4279 · 01-08-2010 10:53AM

crayolastereo wrote: »

women are almost always objectified in the media.

And paid for it too. Jordan, Paris Hilton ect.... Nobody forced them to become media icons, they done it for money just like all the page 3 girls and so on. Its not like a group of men made them become what they are.

Gary4279 · 01-08-2010 10:59AM

vicecreamsundae wrote: »

how many strip clubs are there in ireland where guys can go to see women any night of the week?
and how often does some knock off chippendale troupe do a little tour of the country?

the difference is EVERYTHING.

There are more strip clubs for men because there is a larger market for it, however, if you think there is a market for a female on then go on and make your millions.

FFS, how many female dominated gyms are there such as curves and weight watchers. why? Because a high percentage of women ain't happy with their bodies. Just like a high percentage of men fancy the idea of strippers.

Its equal, just in different ways.

WesternNight · 01-08-2010 11:03AM

Wagon wrote: »

Can't help but wonder, why can women have Anne Summers partys where the "no men rule" is heavily enforced, and men can't have their own little space?

But in that instance the women were turned away and didn't go in...yes? So the men did get their own space.

See, I think the OP has a point. The term "feminism" these days draws such an amount of eye rolling and sighing from every corner that I really don't think it can do any more good.

I'm not sure it would be as easy as changing what we call it, though. Because then you have the whole "pfft, here come the PC brigade" shíte to deal with. The entire attitude towards the concept of equality would have to change.

Mike 1972 · 01-08-2010 11:17AM

vicecreamsundae wrote: »

but i can still feel that the way it's perfectly acceptable for men to go to strip clubs and pay money to have women strip and dance for them, while no such similar service is available for hetero women is a HUGE sign of just how unequal our society is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

Ulysses Gaze · 01-08-2010 11:46AM

Johnnymcg wrote: »

I don't agree. There are still a huge amount of problems within Irish society faced by women. Lack of abortion, equal pay, care work is undertaken by unpaid and undervalued women (did you know in Venezuela that work in the home is paid by the state?), a political system based on male culture that does not encourage female participation

Lack of Abortion? Blame it on the Religious 'influence' in the country. Priests and Nuns.

Lack of equal pay? The wage gap, when it's looked at as the difference between the median wages of men and women across the board, yes it does exist. But you'd have to drill down into each job sector, work out the hours worked by each person (male or female), look at the level they work at within an organisation (Admin to Management), work out time served in the company and then calculate the difference in pay to see if discrimination existed. UK Government Statistics definition of 'Median' pay;

'Although median hourly pay provides a useful comparison between the earnings of men and women, it does not necessarily indicate differences in rates of pay for comparable jobs. Pay medians are affected by the different work patterns of men and women, such as the proportions in different occupations and their length of time in jobs" i.e. women get paid less on average because on average they work fewer hours or in less well-paid occupations.'

A political system based on male culture that does not encourage female participation? There are a number of women in the Dail and as MEPs. Could there be more? Sure there could. But could you explain how the system doesn't 'encourage' female participation.

01-08-2010 11:53AM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Lack of Abortion? Blame it on the Religious 'influence' in the country. Priests and Nuns.

I dont know what point your tryin to make here ? that may be true but as the states upholds it does it make it right or absolve them of any responsibility ?

A political system based on male culture that does not encourage female participation? There are a number of women in the Dail and as MEPs. Could there be more? Sure there could. But could you explain how the system doesn't 'encourage' female participation.

All parties pick who will represent them at election time less woman are picked than men.

Terry · 01-08-2010 11:58AM

crayolastereo wrote: »

No abortion. The rape culture is that as a woman I'm afraid to go out when its dark, my school ran self defense classes, there is a minuscule conviction rate for rapes and there is also a big group of people who think its a womans fault she got raped if she wore a low top. As for objectification, look at any perfume ad/music video/american apparel ad/so on and so forth. I mean when do you ever see an unattractive woman on TV? They are always dolled up to the nines, men can look however they want

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/feb2009/5/4/66A53977-C1F1-82CC-9EBF38075D8DE0C1.jpg

Wagon wrote: »

Feminism should be targeted twoards the middle east and fighting for the rights of women there. Those are the people in need for it, desperately.

Many will tell you that it's cultural for Middle Eastern women to be oppressed.
No, I don't agree with it, but just look at the French Burkha ban.
We were told that it's cultural for women to look like moving post boxes.

Ulysses Gaze · 01-08-2010 12:01PM

Lack of Abortion? Blame it on the Religious 'influence' in the country. Priests and Nuns.

I dont know what point your tryin to make here ? that may be true but as the states upholds it does it make it right or absolve them of any responsibility ?

There have been at least two, that I can remember, Abortion referenda that allowed the Irish public to legalise abortion. They both didn't pass.

All parties pick who will represent them at election time less woman are picked than men.

Maybe there are less women interested in going into politics for other reasons?

01-08-2010 12:26PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

There have been at least two, that I can remember, Abortion referenda that allowed the Irish public to legalise abortion. They both didn't pass.

they should have another one then

Maybe there are less women interested in going into politics for other reasons?

maybe but in most cases a woman standing to be picked against a man the man will be picked by the party

OutlawPete · 01-08-2010 01:44PM

Ernest Uptight Handlebar wrote: »

I do care that as a woman in this country you do not have the right to a safe termination in this country and have to travel elsewhere to receive medical treatment, either that or convince the state/ medical profession that you have the right to do what you want with your own body.

That's just a health issue.

Just as many men are fighting for women to have those rights too, it SHOULD have little to do feminism.

This is what is wrong with feminists, they wave their feminist banners when there is simply no need too.

Women are not being oppressed in the arena of health, if anything it is men that who get the short straw.

When is the last time you seen buildings, buses and posters for Prostrate Check?

Ernest Uptight Handlebar wrote: »

i do care that there are still very few woman in positions of power in this country both in politics and industry

Would you be so quick to seek equality in all areas of employment if jobs were still mainly of a manual nature, such as coal mining, ploughing fields etc.

Feminists always ignore the fact that men where the main bread winners for centuries simply because women were not capable of such work.

If anything this was more protection and serving, than any kind of oppression.

The only reason women are now in the workplace is because work is now not just manual labour.

If there was a World War in the morning and it destroyed civilization, but for a few million, women would be right back were they started as mankind would just revert back to the natural order of things.

So, stop being so impatient, equality in all areas of society will come, it was never going to happen overnight.

Ernest Uptight Handlebar wrote: »

I do care that woman are currently taking contraceptive medicine in this country which have been banned in america for causing infertility and various cancers, and that most of these woman are under the age of 30.

Again, fcuk all to do with feminism.

You don't have to have a feminist agenda to fight for women's health issues.

In fact, if you are just focusing on the failings of the world in regards to women's health issues, what that makes you is not some kind of feminist crusader, but a bog standard sexist.

Millicent · 01-08-2010 01:51PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

That's just a health issue.

Just as many men are fighting for women to have those rights too, it SHOULD have little to do feminism.

This is what is wrong with feminists, they wave their feminist banners when there is simply no need too.

Women are not being oppressed in the arena of health, if anything it is men that who get the short straw.

When is the last time you seen buildings, buses and posters for Prostrate Check?

Would you be so quick to seek equality in all areas of employment if jobs were still mainly of a manual nature, such as coal mining, ploughing fields etc.

Feminists always ignore the fact that men where the main bread winners for centuries simply because women were not capable of such work.

If anything this was more protection and serving, than any kind of oppression.

The only reason women are now in the workplace is because work is now not just manual labour.

If there was a World War in the morning and it destroyed civilization, but for a few million, women would be right back were they started as mankind would just revert back to the natural order of things.

So, stop being so impatient, equality in all areas of society will come, it was never going to happen overnight.

Again, fcuk all to do with feminism.

You don't have to have a feminist agenda to fight for women's health issues.

In fact, if you are just focusing on the failings of the world in regards to women's health issues, what that makes you is not some kind of feminist crusader, but a bog standard sexist.

Petey, love ye and all but gonna call shenanigans on this one. I know many women capable of physical, manual labour. Heck, I've done it, my Mam has done it. There were other professions besides coal mining or chimney sweeping etc. Women were told they were delicate little flowers that should remember their place in the home. I am sure you can tell from CAFC that we ain't delicate little flowers! :P

OutlawPete · 01-08-2010 01:56PM

Millicent wrote: »

Petey, love ye and all but gonna call shenanigans on this one. I know many women capable of physical, manual labour. Heck, I've done it, my Mam has done it. There were other professions besides coal mining or chimney sweeping etc. Women were told they were delicate little flowers that should remember their place in the home. I am sure you can tell from CAFC that we ain't delicate little flowers! :P

I'm not saying that women can't do manual work.

I am sure there were some women who were capable of working down mines and ploughing fields, but my point is that men did that work as it was the natural order of things, not because they were oppressing women.

Strange Loop · 01-08-2010 01:57PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

I am sure there were some women who were capable of working down mines and ploughing fields, but my point is that men did that work as it was the natural order of things, not because they were oppressing women.

Why not?

Charlize Theron worked down a mine before she became a movie star.

01-08-2010 02:00PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

That's just a health issue.

one which effects woman more the men therby making it predominatly a fe

This is what is wrong with feminists nothing

Women are not being oppressed in the arena of health, if anything it is men that who get the short straw. explain

When is the last time you seen buildings, buses and posters for Prostrate Check? yes i have and heard radio ads

ploughing a field whilst an honorable trade wont change the shape of society being in politics might

You don't have to have a feminist agenda - what one of these ?

In fact, if you are just focusing on the failings of the world in regards to women's health issues, what that makes you is not some kind of feminist crusader, but a bog standard sexist.

no i wasnt and arnt please take the time to read my previous posts

Millicent · 01-08-2010 02:16PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

I'm not saying that women can't do manual work.

I am sure there were some women who were capable of working down mines and ploughing fields, but my point is that men did that work as it was the natural order of things, not because they were oppressing women.

Well, it was the natural order of things as they perceived it definitely. I'd say that some men agreed with it for the protection of women but there were definitely others who oppressed women because it elevated their status and place in life.

OutlawPete · 01-08-2010 02:32PM

Ernest Uptight Handlebar wrote: »

no i wasnt and arnt please take the time to read my previous posts

I did, which was why I was able to respond to your specific points.

You can have your little declaration that you also care about issues for both genders and hope that somehow makes sense of the rest of what you say, it doesn't.

You call yourself a feminist and it is my belief and contention that there is ZERO need in the western world to continue be one.

The only reason women hold on to that title is so that they can present themselves as victims of society.

Of course there are issues that women should fight for and issues that men should fight for but there is zero need for any women to be calling labeling themselves a feminist.

Just fight for all injustices, regardless of gender and stop seeing inequality and oppression where it no longer exists.

If anything, the cause of feminists has led to an unjust society were women are seen as been superior to men.

Take a look at the male suicide rate in this country and beyond.

Advertising has already been brought up, but it is far more serious than that as it also effects areas such as heath care and the family courts.

Women's cancer screening programs far out number mens for instance.

The family courts is another area where feminist influence has made any kind of justice an impossibly.

It's time to drop the feminist tag, it's a comfort blanket that women no longer need.

The Agogo · 01-08-2010 03:53PM

Johnnymcg wrote: »

I don't agree. There are still a huge amount of problems within Irish society faced by women. Lack of abortion, equal pay, care work is undertaken by unpaid and undervalued women (did you know in Venezuela that work in the home is paid by the state?), a political system based on male culture that does not encourage female participation

Okay this argument about women in politics really pisses me off.

In a democracy, you have to BE POPULAR to get voted in BY THE GENERAL PUBLIC. There's no sadistic monster saying "No she woman. She no politic. Mah"

Having 50:50 houses defeats the purpose of democracy. We base votes on individual candidates and their qualities (well, supposedly).

01-08-2010 04:14PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

If anything, the cause of feminists has led to an unjust society were women are seen as been superior to men.

Take a look at the male suicide rate in this country and beyond.

are you seriously suggesting that men are committing suicide because of feminism ? i would love to see research that backs this up ?

MagicMarker · 01-08-2010 04:17PM

Strange Loop wrote: »

Why not?

Charlize Theron worked down a mine before she became a movie star.

Surely she was just bringing sandwiches and tea to the men folk? :pac:

Mrmoe · 01-08-2010 04:21PM

Ernest Uptight Handlebar wrote: »

are you seriously suggesting that men are committing suicide because of feminism ? i would love to see research that backs this up ?

There is a lot of research carried out in relation to men who are divorced separated. There is a much higher rate of divorced/separated men committing suicide. While they can not pin down the exact point or single reason why this is the case inequalities about access to children is a major one. Feminism is not directly to blame but when you only look for rights for one group, this definitely has an effect.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/15/divorce.suicide.wmd/index.html

01-08-2010 04:34PM

i read the article i cant see what feminism has to do with it ? the article states that
He pointed out that men tend to have a higher suicide rate because they are more likely to use guns to kill themselves, whereas women attempt suicide with less lethal methods, such as poisonings or cuts.
sorry but what has feminism got to do with this . The fact that men have less emotional support after divorce is a completely different issue and i fail to see the feminist movement has anything to do with this .

this article points to the factors which lead to suicide in this country amongst young men the group with the highest suicide rate in this country
http://www.mensproject.org/facts/Suicide.PDF

Feminism - an Egalitarian term?

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