Would you date...

Links234 · 30-07-2010 03:56AM

Confab wrote: »

You what? Female mind? The female brain is no different to the male brain, it's upbringing, sexual organs and hormones that distinguishes us. Males (or rather, humans with testicles) get pumped full of testosterone at puberty. Once that happens they're male. You can bolt on (or lop off) as much as you want but it ain't gonna make them a fully fledged, oestrogen producing, uterus owning genuine woman.

Note I'm not calling it an abomination or anything of the sort, just a severe variant of 'the grass is greener on the other side' syndrome.

you are so deeply wrong

I wasn't even gonna bother, but copied from the thread (or last half a dozen threads) on this

Transsexual gene link identified
Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus
Male-to-Female Transsexuals Show Sex-Atypical Hypothalamus Activation When Smelling Odorous Steroids

K-9 · 30-07-2010 03:56AM

Links234 wrote: »

also, LOL at the idea of After Hours being "open minded" or "liberal" :pac: roflmao, good one :D

It's a thankless task. We will be rewarded in a later life for our patience, objectivity, tolerance and understanding. Or else we'll be burn in hell, if we aren't beaten up by then!

Links234 · 30-07-2010 04:00AM

oh holy hell I shoulda been in bed hours ago! :eek:

Mr Benevolent · 30-07-2010 04:01AM

Links234 wrote: »

you are so deeply wrong

Am I wrong about this bit though?

You can bolt on (or lop off) as much as you want but it ain't gonna make them a fully fledged, oestrogen producing, uterus owning genuine woman.

Nebit · 30-07-2010 04:02AM

Confab wrote: »

You what? Female mind? The female brain is no different to the male brain, it's upbringing, sexual organs and hormones that distinguishes us. Males (or rather, humans with testicles) get pumped full of testosterone at puberty. Once that happens they're male. You can bolt on (or lop off) as much as you want but it ain't gonna make them a fully fledged, oestrogen producing, uterus owning genuine woman.

Note I'm not calling it an abomination or anything of the sort, just a severe variant of 'the grass is greener on the other side' syndrome.

if your talking about functions of a brain then yes a womens brain functions the same as a males. HOWEVER women think and act differently to males, the environment you grow up in does not effect this, but plays a part in the perceived norm of a woman. A woman can be brought up by 2 butch lesbians but still be a feminine straight female it does not mean she will want to become a transsexual because her parents were overly masculine.
I am not saying these people are 'oestrogen producing, uterus owning' women
ONLY that they are IN MIND a woman and who should dictate otherwise

K-9 · 30-07-2010 04:08AM

Confab wrote: »

Am I wrong about this bit though?

A womens brain is set a certain way as is mens. Eg. ask a woman to read a map or operate a digger, they tend to struggle.

There are exceptions to that, women who can do the above just as good as men and no, that doesn't mean they are lesbians!

So yes, the brain is different.

AFAIK, science is still in an early stage of understanding on how the brain works, so far too early to tell, either way.

Midnight_EG · 30-07-2010 04:09AM

Links234 wrote: »

You're the one who opened with a challenge that I couldn't argue or disagree, so I rose to that challenge

No, you're just never gonna see it from the mans point of view, in the exact situation I've described. You're only ever gonna twist and change it to suit you.

Rabies · 30-07-2010 04:09AM

Nebit wrote: »

you fail to realise that these people although born with a male body are in fact of a female mind and therefore are NOT gay.

Before the op they originally had a male body. If they hooked up with a man during that time then they would be called gay or bisexual.
Even after an op, I'd still call it a male body. It still doesn't have a working womb and can't produce milk. I don't know sexually if the nerve endings all working right like they should sexually.
But my opinion is even though an op can be completed, it still is a man in my books.

Mr Benevolent · 30-07-2010 04:11AM

K-9 wrote: »

A womens brain is set a certain way as is mens. Eg. ask a woman to read a map or operate a digger, they tend to struggle.

Ridiculous generalizations.

K-9 · 30-07-2010 04:14AM

Midnight_EG wrote: »

No, you're just never gonna see it from the mans point of view, in the exact situation I've described. You're only ever gonna twist and change it to suit you.

Rabies wrote: »

Before the op they originally had a male body. If they hooked up with a man during that time then they would be called gay or bisexual.
Even after an op, I'd still call it a male body. It still doesn't have a working womb and can't produce milk. I don't know sexually if the nerve endings all working right like they should sexually.
But my opinion is even though an op can be completed, it still is a man in my books.

Trying to reconcile the 2 above posts and I can't!

One is asking to see things from a male point of view and the other is that a transexual can never change gender.

Suppose it shows the difference in attitudes, even now.

Midnight_EG · 30-07-2010 04:16AM

K-9 wrote: »

Trying to reconcile the 2 above posts and I can't!

One is asking to see things from a male point of view and the other is that a transexual can never change gender.

Suppose it shows the difference in attitudes, even now.

My post and Rabies' are arguing two separate points, neither of which correlate to each other.

We are indeed arguing from the point of view of both 'men' in the relationship.

K-9 · 30-07-2010 04:16AM

Confab wrote: »

Ridiculous generalizations.

Nope it isn't. Read the post, in its entirety again, rather than focusing on one part.

A very male characteristic I must say! Must be the female part of my brain!

Nebit · 30-07-2010 04:17AM

Rabies wrote: »

Before the op they originally had a male body. If they hooked up with a man during that time then they would be called gay or bisexual.
Even after an op, I'd still call it a male body. It still doesn't have a working womb and can't produce milk. I don't know sexually if the nerve endings all working right like they should sexually.
But my opinion is even though an op can be completed, it still is a man in my books.

Ok your thinking of it in terms of body, NO a gay man fancies other MEN and has the mind of a man, a transsexual woman lets say although born a man has always been a woman in the mind ergo has NEVER been gay just trapped in a body that is not their own. The man who sleeps with a post op transsexual is therefore not gay as she is in mind a woman and has removed those areas which would INDICATE otherwise (notice the word indicate) a gay man would not fancy a trannsexual woman as it is a WOMAN dresses as a woman and acts as a woman.

K-9 · 30-07-2010 04:21AM

Midnight_EG wrote: »

My post and Rabies' are arguing two separate points, neither of which correlate to each other.

We are indeed arguing from the point of view of both 'men' in the relationship.

Should have probably put "male attitudes".

Links234 is going to find it hard to see the male view, because well, they are female and on top of that, transsexual.

Rabies just sees her as male, even with an operation. Going on his posts mind, which is all I can go on.

Mr Benevolent · 30-07-2010 04:23AM

K-9 wrote: »

Nope it isn't. Read the post, in its entirety again, rather than focusing on one part.

A very male characteristic I must say! Must be the female part of my brain!

Yes I know there are exceptions. You're still generalizing though.

Midnight_EG · 30-07-2010 04:24AM

K-9 wrote: »

Links234 is going to find it hard to see the male view, because well, they are female and on top of that, transsexual.

That's my point, she won't see it from a neutral male view. She's putting her own twist on what I've said by telling me the guy in my 'story' could have closet homophobia...I clearly didn't mean that, nor even alluded to it!

She'll only ever see the womans viewpoint simply because she can't accept a males point of view.

K-9 · 30-07-2010 04:26AM

Confab wrote: »

You what? Female mind? The female brain is no different to the male brain, it's upbringing, sexual organs and hormones that distinguishes us. Males (or rather, humans with testicles) get pumped full of testosterone at puberty. Once that happens they're male. You can bolt on (or lop off) as much as you want but it ain't gonna make them a fully fledged, oestrogen producing, uterus owning genuine woman. Please note I'm not calling it an abomination or anything of the sort, just a severe variant of 'the grass is greener on the other side' syndrome.

On a side note, why do a fair percentage of gay men have higher pitched voices and a lisp? Always strikes me as an affectation rather than a genuine way of speaking, especially the lisp.

Confab wrote: »

Yes I know there are exceptions. You're still generalizing though.

Considering you made the previous sweeping statement, your point is?

K-9 · 30-07-2010 04:31AM

Midnight_EG wrote: »

That's my point, she won't see it from a neutral male view. She's putting her own twist on what I've said by telling me the guy in my 'story' could have closet homophobia...I clearly didn't mean that, nor even alluded to it!

She'll only ever see the womans viewpoint simply because she can't accept a males point of view.

Fair point.

I didn't pick up on your initial point. Definitely, a man should be fully aware that his partner or g/f is going for a sex op! Yes, I understand privacy or whatever, but somethings are more important!

Midnight_EG · 30-07-2010 04:42AM

K-9 wrote: »

Fair point.

I didn't pick up on your initial point. Definitely, a man should be fully aware that his partner or g/f is going for a sex op! Yes, I understand privacy or whatever, but somethings are more important!

I'm coming at it from a male viewpoint post-op. He might only be told about the op so many months into the relationship, then he might step back and think 'well I was initially attracted to a man, and that's gay/bi-curious, so I'm getting out'. In my opinion that's neither gay nor homophobic, but instead a natural thing to think in moments of frustration and/or confusion.

Obviously if the relationship had developed to a loving and understanding one, then he might stand back and accept her choices, but I'm talking about where he simply ups and leaves with it, simply cos of the males initial attraction to what he thought was a female, but turned out to be male in past times.

Acceptance is obviously needed, but with that comes honesty, and the woman should have the confidence and heart to tell any potential suitors of her missing digit.

K-9 · 30-07-2010 04:53AM

Midnight_EG wrote: »

I'm coming at it from a male viewpoint post-op. He might only be told about the op so many months into the relationship, then he might step back and think 'well I was initially attracted to a man, and that's gay/bi-curious, so I'm getting out'. In my opinion that's neither gay nor homophobic, but instead a natural thing to think in moments of frustration and/or confusion.

Obviously if the relationship had developed to a loving and understanding one, then he might stand back and accept her choices, but I'm talking about where he simply ups and leaves with it, simply cos of the males initial attraction to what he thought was a female, but turned out to be male in past times.

Acceptance is obviously needed, but with that comes honesty, and the woman should have the confidence and heart to tell any potential suitors of her missing digit.

To me, it's a basic honesty thing and honesty to me is sacrosanct.

If I wasn't told, I would feel duped. Plus there is an element of telling a "white lie", don't tell him and he'll grown to love me and forget it.

To address Links234's earlier points in that context, I wouldn't care how many previous partners or sexual relationships my g/f or partner had, or indeed abortions. That is for her to tell me in her own time, if she so wishes.

However, if my g/f or partner had a sexual relationship or abortion while we were going out, well that is my bloody business!

Now for somebody who had an op years ago, Have to think about that too.

Midnight_EG · 30-07-2010 04:59AM

K-9 wrote: »

To me, it's a basic honesty thing and honesty to me is sacrosanct.

If I wasn't told, I would feel duped. Plus there is an element of telling a "white lie", don't tell him and he'll grown to love me and forget it.

To address Links234's earlier points in that context, I wouldn't care how many previous partners or sexual relationships my g/f or partner had, or indeed abortions. That is for her to tell me in her own time, if she so wishes.

However, if my g/f or partner had a sexual relationship or abortion while we were going out, well that is my bloody business!

There's an interesting question. If, while during the relationship, you'd never engaged in sexual activities with your partner, she told you she was gonna have the op. Assumingly you don't know about her having a penis at this stage, but now you've found out she does and you did indeed fall for a man. This is exactly where my previous points could be used, only difference being pre-op as opposed to post-op. Again the guy might think it's gay of him to fall for someone with a penis, then wants out. Would he be in the right here, without being homophobic or gay? Quite certainly IMO.

Micky Dolenz · 30-07-2010 09:13AM

Do we really need another thread on this? really?

Answers on a postcard or PM.

Would you date...

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