Evolution Theory.

partyatmygaff · 28-07-2010 01:40AM

srfc19 wrote: »

I thought a belief in a God who 'created heaven and earth' was essential for the Catholic faith.
If we are to believe that humans are the only beings which could or would worship a God, why would said God not create these first rather then let them evolve?
There is a lot of blind faith required and i just cannot understand it personally.

Merely because you cannot understand that it is not blind faith. And lol @ this gem

"I thought a belief in a God who 'created heaven and earth' was essential for the Catholic faith."

:pac:

srfc19 · 28-07-2010 01:42AM

andrew wrote: »

Regarding Catholics and Evolution, From Wikipedia:

I have read this before while researching the topic, but i always thought belief in the creator of heaven and earth was essential. I thought it was a package deal, not that people could pick and choose which parts they agreed with and which parts they didn't.

laugh · 28-07-2010 01:42AM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

How can some people STILL believe that Science and Religion cannot be independent of each other. They are two very different things.

Seriously, it's not difficult to comprehend. Believing in Religion does not make you unscientific, being scientific does not make you non-religious either.

The religion changed what it stated was immutable so many times in the face of scientific proof that it should be ignored.

partyatmygaff · 28-07-2010 01:43AM

laugh wrote: »

The religion changed what it stated was immutable so many times in the face of scientific proof that it should be ignored.

And what is the religion? I am not Catholic. And before you go off on one there is no undeniable proof for macro evolution, only for micro evolution.

Doc · 28-07-2010 01:45AM

srfc19 wrote: »

I have read this before while researching the topic, but i always thought belief in the creator of heaven and earth was essential. I thought it was a package deal, not that people could pick and choose which parts they agreed with and which parts they didn't.

Not strictly true as there are parts of the bible that where left out or ignored because they did not fit with in with the Ideas of the church as a whole in the past. Catholicism and its belief system are not as set in shone as many believe.

marco_polo · 28-07-2010 01:47AM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

And what is the religion? I am not Catholic. And before you go off on one there is no undeniable proof for macro evolution, only for micro evolution.

Exact same process, different timescales.

laugh · 28-07-2010 01:47AM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

And what is the religion? I am not Catholic. And before you go off on one there is no undeniable proof for macro evolution, only for micro evolution.

If you are Christian it all originated from the same bollox. So you need undeniable proof now?

partyatmygaff · 28-07-2010 01:57AM

marco_polo wrote: »

Exact same process, different timescales.

Macro evolution involves the mass mutation of a species in to form an entirely new species. If macro evolution was to be true then why is that Humans have no near equivalent (And no, other primates cannot be compared to humans as they may be somewhat similar but lack far too many things to be considered on the same level as human beings). Take the family of felines in the animal kingdom, there is the common cat at one end of the spectrum and the numerous big cats at the other end. All have similarities and the differences between each species of feline is minute compared to say a human and any other primate. There is something special about Human beings no doubt. After all, it is us as a species that examines other species, not the other way around.

laugh wrote: »

If you are Christian it all originated from the same bollox. So you need undeniable proof now?

Sorry, it's not worth my time even replying to that. In any case, I don't particularly find talking with militant atheists who cannot even have the common courtesy to respect others' beliefs to be worth my time.

IM0 · 28-07-2010 02:04AM

"long long ago the earth cooled, life formed, and people have since been debating where it came from" - who cares?

lila44 · 28-07-2010 02:05AM

Ush1 wrote: »

Actually it is a fact, a scientific empirical fact.

Just please don't tell me you're jumping on the "It's the theory of Evolution" thing.

well, it's not really a fact yet, there's the missing link.....

marco_polo · 28-07-2010 02:06AM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Macro evolution involves the mass mutation of a species in to form an entirely new species. If macro evolution was to be true then why is that Humans have no near equivalent (And no, other primates cannot be compared to humans as they may be somewhat similar but lack far too many things to be considered on the same level as human beings). Take the family of felines in the animal kingdom, there is the common cat at one end of the spectrum and the numerous big cats at the other end. All have similarities and the differences between each species of feline is minute compared to say a human and any other primate. There is something special about Human beings no doubt. After all, it is us as a species that examines other species, not the other way around.

Sorry, it's not worth my time even replying to that. In any case, I don't particularly find talking with militant atheists who cannot even have the common courtesy to respect others' beliefs to be worth my time.

I can only presume you are completely unaware of the recent sequencing of the full Neatherthal genome for one, and the ever expanding hominid fossil record.

But then again as the old joke goes, for some people every time you fill in a gap in the fossil record it just creates two more gaps on either side.

partyatmygaff · 28-07-2010 02:06AM

me@ucd wrote: »

"long long ago the earth cooled, life formed, and people have since been debating where it came from" - who cares?

People spend so long thinking about how life came to be that they forget to live.

lila44 · 28-07-2010 02:08AM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

People spend so long thinking about how life came to be that they forget to live.

deep :cool:

marco_polo · 28-07-2010 02:10AM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

People spend so long thinking about how life came to be that they forget to live.

Now that sentiment I can certainly agree with

Capt'n Midnight · 28-07-2010 02:27AM

R_H_C_P wrote: »

Watched a programme and they said that Darwins Theory of Evolution has been proven. Which dsiproves a "god". Right?

So what does ths mean for religion? Did you know it was proven before now? And will it have any effect on how you view religion right now? I know science isnt always the answer but at the same time they prove some stuff that would make you think. probably letting out loads of helpfull document etc but falling asleep.

Im beginning to think even if it it proved, it wont make a difference because churchs have brainwashed people into their religion.

You cannot prove a theory.
We use words like theorem for stuff that can be proved.

Gravity is also a theory.

Ape77 · 28-07-2010 02:34AM

Humans evolved and as did the Gods. Think of how powerful God is after evolution,man. Phwoar!!!

sponsoredwalk · 28-07-2010 02:37AM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

micro evolution is proven and is a constant that cannot be debated.

The above quote is the most important sentence to think about for what follows.

However, as biologists define macroevolution, both microevolution and macroevolution have been observed.
Speciations, for example, have been directly observed many times, despite popular misconceptions to the contrary.

Additionally, the modern evolutionary synthesis draws no distinction
between macroevolution and microevolution, considering the former to simply be the latter on a larger scale.
An example of this is ring species.
link

partyatmygaff wrote: »

There is no hard evidence for macro evolution,

Basically you've fed into creationist propaganda arguing against macroevolution while fully supporting microevolution
even though macroevolution is defined as microevolution compounded over time :pac:
You basically gave away the leg you stood upon one sentence previously & didn't even realise it :P

Proof

partyatmygaff wrote: »

If macro evolution was to be true then why is that Humans have no near equivalent (And no, other primates cannot be compared to humans as they may be somewhat similar but lack far too many things to be considered on the same level as human beings).

Only around the 92 percentile mark in genetic similarity with other primates :pac:

You've admitted macroevolution exists because microevolution exists but for some reason here you doubt it's existence.

I think you're very confused about the subject due to misinformation.

People can spend so much time living they forget how to gauge life accurately or become biased, it's worth stepping back now and again

Nervous Wreck · 28-07-2010 02:46AM

Doc wrote: »

Catholicism and its belief system are not as set in stone as many believe.

*cough*TENCOMMANDMENTS*cough*

davrho · 28-07-2010 02:48AM

R_H_C_P wrote: »

Watched a programme and they said that Darwins Theory of Evolution has been proven. Which dsiproves a "god". Right?

So what does ths mean for religion?.

Nothing.

There is a documentry called "Science proves the existence of God" It shows the maths involved in the probability of life forms. Not great odds.

Why do folk make such a deal of this? If you believe in the big man, then fair play. If you don't good on ye.

partyatmygaff · 28-07-2010 02:53AM

davrho wrote: »

Why do folk make such a deal of this? If you believe in the big man, then fair play. If you don't good on ye.

+1

Agreed. Best to live and let live.

Borneo Fnctn · 28-07-2010 03:01AM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Macro evolution involves the mass mutation of a species in to form an entirely new species. If macro evolution was to be true then why is that Humans have no near equivalent (And no, other primates cannot be compared to humans as they may be somewhat similar but lack far too many things to be considered on the same level as human beings). Take the family of felines in the animal kingdom, there is the common cat at one end of the spectrum and the numerous big cats at the other end. All have similarities and the differences between each species of feline is minute compared to say a human and any other primate. There is something special about Human beings no doubt. After all, it is us as a species that examines other species, not the other way around.

Sorry, it's not worth my time even replying to that. In any case, I don't particularly find talking with militant atheists who cannot even have the common courtesy to respect others' beliefs to be worth my time.

You are really misinformed. I recommend you educate yourself. Read something credible this time. I could explain things to you and give you links but I'd probably be wasting my time. You can lead a horse to water...

Zillah · 28-07-2010 03:07AM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

+1

Agreed. Best to live and let live.

As an atheist I would absolutely love if we could live and let live. However, we are constantly bombarded by the religious and their attempts to dictate how we should live our lives. Just look at the influence groups like the Catholic Church have had over issues such as divorce, abortion, education, sex, homophobia, sexism, HIV, contraception etc.

If religious people just practiced their own religion and let others live their lives unmolested I'd have no problem. Y'know what religions I complain about all the time? Christianity and Islam, because they just won't shut the bloody hell up about how they're the ultimate authority on earth and how we all have to do what they say. Y'know who I have never once complained about in my life? Jainism. They're harmless, kind and never tell anyone else how to live their lives. Seeing a trend here?

Also you haven't the slightest idea what evolution is about, you're embarassing yourself. Try reading an actual book on the topic before you try to argue with the big boys.

davrho · 28-07-2010 03:25AM

Zillah wrote: »

As an atheist .

Were you baptised a Roman Catholic?

Just asking?

squod · 28-07-2010 06:18AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

Doc · 28-07-2010 07:00AM

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

*cough*TENCOMMANDMENTS*cough*

Commandment#10 (Exodus 20:2&#8211 wrote: »

You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

More recent scholarship suggests that "take" may be better for translation than "covet."

So even what was said to be set in stone is still up for interpretation...

derfderf · 28-07-2010 08:50AM

davrho wrote: »

Nothing.

There is a documentry called "Science proves the existence of God" It shows the maths involved in the probability of life forms. Not great odds.

Why do folk make such a deal of this? If you believe in the big man, then fair play. If you don't good on ye.

not great odds on any particular planet. Take into account how many stars there probably are (something like 10^23), and the odds swing back to life springing up somewhere. Unless they were counting the earth as special.
One thing i can never get about religion and evolution, and this could be a fairly simple way of looking at it, is if only humans can get into heaven, then there must have been a first generation of humans that were actually considered humans and got to heaven. So that would make there parents primates in gods eyes, and they'd be left below. I know evolution takes millions of years but there has to be a point where people actually started.
I think that's a very strange thought. The only way i can see evolution and religion fitting together is with the adam and eve start to humanity.

Ush1 · 28-07-2010 09:11AM

davrho wrote: »

Nothing.

There is a documentry called "Science proves the existence of God" It shows the maths involved in the probability of life forms. Not great odds.

Why do folk make such a deal of this? If you believe in the big man, then fair play. If you don't good on ye.

Yes. Probability wise us having this conversation is an extremely unlikely event, however, the existence of God is much, much less likely again.

AAAAAAAHHH · 28-07-2010 09:30AM

lila44 wrote: »

well, it's not really a fact yet, there's the missing link.....

Evolution is a fact, the process isn't completely known yet.

Ush1 · 28-07-2010 09:32AM

lila44 wrote: »

well, it's not really a fact yet, there's the missing link.....

What do you mean by that? Are you refering to fossils because we're very lucky to have the few we have and they aren't strictly nessacery to prove evolution anyway.

jackiebaron · 28-07-2010 09:37AM

amacachi wrote: »

Evolution is just a theory, it's not a fact, just like gravity.

Evolution is a fact! God is a theory.

Evolution Theory.

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