Evolution Theory.

Yakult

Watched a programme and they said that Darwins Theory of Evolution has been proven. Which dsiproves a "god". Right?

So what does ths mean for religion? Did you know it was proven before now? And will it have any effect on how you view religion right now? I know science isnt always the answer but at the same time they prove some stuff that would make you think. probably letting out loads of helpfull document etc but falling asleep.

Im beginning to think even if it it proved, it wont make a difference because churchs have brainwashed people into their religion.

Ush1

R_H_C_P wrote: »

Watched a programme and they said that Darwins Evolution of theory has been proven. Which dsiproves a "god". Right?

So what does ths mean for religion? Did you know it was proven before now? And will it have any effect on how you view religion right now? I know science isnt always the answer but at the same time they prove some stuff that would make you think. probably letting out loads of helpfull document etc but falling asleep.

Im beginning to think even if it it proved, it wont make a difference because churchs have brainwashed people into their religion.

No, you technically can't do that, however God is extremely unlikely.

funk-you

I'm not a believer but it doesn't disprove God. It just disproves the bibles telling of how life was created.

-Funk

genericguy

fcuk this, i'm not getting involved in one of these again. this week.

btw there's no god, and you're related to king kong.

srfc19

A belief in God requires a total disbelief in science anyways so this hasn't proven anything.
I was having an argument with a practicing Catholic girl I know and when i mentioned evolution to prove my point she said "F**k Evolution". This is basically the view of the church and it baffles me.

amacachi

Evolution is just a theory, it's not a fact, just like gravity.

squod

R_H_C_P wrote: »

Watched a programme and they said that Darwins Evolution of theory has been proven.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Yakult

amacachi wrote: »

Evolution is just a theory, it's not a fact, just like gravity.

So what does that mean for Religious views on god/bible.

The stories in the bible cannot be for real. How come nothing like these "events" happen today?

Religion - theory imo

squod wrote: »

Couldn't have said it better myself.

typo fixed

Senna

People haven't lost faith after so much abuse by the church, the theory of Evolution doesn't stand much chance of converting people.

Orion

amacachi wrote: »

Evolution is just a theory, it's not a fact, just like gravity.

And gravy.

Profiler

Being the dedicated Pastafarian I'm pure offended.

You think those Scientologists were litigious.... well buddy you ain't seen nothing yet guy :mad:

Now please post you name, date of birth, postal address and nominate solicitors so I can start legal proceedings... you are SO sued friend :mad:

Einhard

srfc19 wrote: »

A belief in God requires a total disbelief in science anyways so this hasn't proven anything.
I was having an argument with a practicing Catholic girl I know and when i mentioned evolution to prove my point she said "F**k Evolution". This is basically the view of the church and it baffles me.

Well then it seems both you and your Catholic friend are ignorant of the Church's teaching on evolution. The Catholic Church does not believe evolution to be incompatible with the Christian faith.

Mrmoe

srfc19 wrote: »

A belief in God requires a total disbelief in science anyways so this hasn't proven anything.
I was having an argument with a practicing Catholic girl I know and when i mentioned evolution to prove my point she said "F**k Evolution". This is basically the view of the church and it baffles me.

I think that is a bit harsh. Generally it is the view of the small vocal minority. I think a lot of educated people within the catholic church see that science and religion are compatable. It is only the nutjobs that get the press and who will shout the loudest.

Yakult

Senna wrote: »

People haven't lost faith after so much abuse by the church, the theory of Evolution doesn't stand much chance of converting people.

Thats what I dont get, you could prove it to them and be it real they still wouldnt bother taking a look at it. Which is fine, people can believe what they want.

Ush1

amacachi wrote: »

Evolution is just a theory, it's not a fact, just like gravity.

Actually it is a fact, a scientific empirical fact.

Just please don't tell me you're jumping on the "It's the theory of Evolution" thing.

sligopark

science = belief type = religion

so many scientific theories rely upon the faith on unproved theory

and many of us whether we like to believe it or not rely upon past experience and selected knowledge uptake to base our confirmations of how life works

for me the theory of evolution lacks the hypotheses discussion of the sudden jump in consciousness and the ethical moral decision making missing in animals as well as the dismissal of discussion the presence of life force / spirit that many believe is inherent or innate in each of us

perhaps not so much as f*ck evolution but its not as simple as the recognition of similar parts from the past

amacachi

Ush1 wrote: »

Actually it is a fact, a scientific empirical fact.

Just please don't tell me you're jumping on the "It's the theory of Evolution" thing.

No, I was hoping people's sarcasm detectors would be working.

YFlyer

sligopark wrote: »

science = belief type = religion

so many scientific theories rely upon the faith on unproved theory

and many of us whether we like to believe it or not rely upon past experience and selected knowledge uptake to base our confirmations of how life works

for me the theory of evolution lacks the hypotheses discussion of the sudden jump in consciousness and the ethical moral decision making missing in animals as well as the dismissal of discussion the presence of life force / spirit that many believe is inherent or innate in each of us

perhaps not so much as f*ck evolution but its not as simple as the recognition of similar parts from the past

Perhaps the human central nervous system has become so complex that it is able to express higher levels of consciousness.

doctorwu

People need religion like a child needs a comfort blanket. They cant accept that this is it. Then they coalesse into tribes {Prods,Caths,Muslims,}etc. Then my tribe are better than your tribe. If you dont accept that i reserve the right to, crucify you ,stone you to death,explode a massive load of explosives in your market, then im off to meet Allah and all those clean virgins.

Ush1

sligopark wrote: »

science = belief type = religion

so many scientific theories rely upon the faith on unproved theory

and many of us whether we like to believe it or not rely upon past experience and selected knowledge uptake to base our confirmations of how life works

for me the theory of evolution lacks the hypotheses discussion of the sudden jump in consciousness and the ethical moral decision making missing in animals as well as the dismissal of discussion the presence of life force / spirit that many believe is inherent or innate in each of us

perhaps not so much as f*ck evolution but its not as simple as the recognition of similar parts from the past

Which theories exactly? Scientific theories rely on evidence, not faith.

Yakult

doctorwu wrote: »

then im off to meet Allah and all those clean virgins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRlTqnB6HAo

have fun dude

Einhard

doctorwu wrote: »

People need religion like a child needs a comfort blanket. They cant accept that this is it. Then they coalesse into tribes {Prods,Caths,Muslims,}etc. Then my tribe are better than your tribe. If you dont accept that i reserve the right to, crucify you ,stone you to death,explode a massive load of explosives in your market, then im off to meet Allah and all those clean virgins.

A small minority in religious people act like that. A small minority of atheists are insufferably smug, superior assholes who believe that "tolerating" the views of others is to mock them relentlessly, and treat the holders with contempt and disdain. Speaking as an atheist, I don't think either group should be tarred by the actions of the minority.

srfc19

I thought a belief in a God who 'created heaven and earth' was essential for the Catholic faith.
If we are to believe that humans are the only beings which could or would worship a God, why would said God not create these first rather then let them evolve?
There is a lot of blind faith required and i just cannot understand it personally.

andrew

If someone has reached a mature age and still doesn't accept evolution, there's no use in trying to get them to do so. First there's the fact that you can't effectively use reason to get people out of a mindset they didn't use reason to get in to in the first place. Secondly, it's pretty clear that evolution is true. So if someone still rejects it beyond their teenage years, in spite of the mountains of evidence to the contrary, in spite of the knowledge that pretty much everyone else accepts evolution, then they'll probably never accept it. I was talking to a group of religious evangelical nutters recently (they were going around evangelizing), and was going to bring it up but in the end didn't bother. There's no point in arguing with people like that.

Einhard

sligopark wrote: »

for me the theory of evolution lacks the hypotheses discussion of the sudden jump in consciousness and the ethical moral decision making missing in animals as well as the dismissal of discussion the presence of life force / spirit that many believe is inherent or innate in each of us

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense.

andrew

srfc19 wrote: »

I thought a belief in a God who 'created heaven and earth' was essential for the Catholic faith.
If we are to believe that humans are the only beings which could or would worship a God, why would said God not create these first rather then let them evolve?
There is a lot of blind faith required and i just cannot understand it personally.

Regarding Catholics and Evolution, From Wikipedia:

Since the publication of Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species in 1859, the attitude of the Catholic Church on the theory of evolution has slowly been refined. For about 100 years, there was no authoritative pronouncement on the subject. By 1950, Pope Pius XII agreed to the academic freedom to study the scientific implications of evolution, so long as Catholic dogma is not violated[1]; since the late 20th century, its attitude has been one of great tolerance.
Today, the Church's unofficial position is a fairly non-specific example of theistic evolution, stating that faith and scientific findings regarding human evolution are not in conflict, though humans are regarded as a special creation, and that the existence of God is required to explain both monogenism and the spiritual component of human origins. No infallible declarations by the Pope or an Ecumenical Council have been made.

rossie1977

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKdck1OOM0

I_AmThe_Walrus

Let's cut the childish behaviour with talk about God and speak about the real possibilities....

Natural Selection or Intelligent Design?

Natural Selection is the only viable way we have come about. Evolution proves there is, without question and with conclusive lack of support, no possibility of Intelligent Design.

However, the faith in a God or superhuman entity allows mankind to sleep better at night within the sheer horror and evilness of our species, how we act to each other, perceive each other and treat each other.

Doc

genericguy wrote: »

btw there's no god, and you're related to king kong.

Only by marriage.

Oh amd evolution doesn’t exclude the possibility of a God. Many believe that god initiated the big bang and helped shape the development of sentient beings.

partyatmygaff

srfc19 wrote: »

I thought a belief in a God who 'created heaven and earth' was essential for the Catholic faith.
If we are to believe that humans are the only beings which could or would worship a God, why would said God not create these first rather then let them evolve?
There is a lot of blind faith required and i just cannot understand it personally.

How can some people STILL believe that Science and Religion cannot be independent of each other. They are two very different things. A religious person can be highly scientific. Religion does not attempt to explain the intricate methods and processes of life and our world. It explains the reasoning behind it and the moral teachings of it. Science by it's very nature is the study of existence by observation. You observe the world and learn about it. This does not disprove God, in fact it has no bearing whatsoever on the existence of God.

There is no hard evidence for macro evolution, micro evolution is proven and is a constant that cannot be debated. In any case, it does not have to be *poof* God creates people out of thin air for God to have created. An existence was created and that existence was allowed to develop itself in to what we see that. From the very outset of our universe to present time the world is constantly in development. All of this could not have been feasible had it not been for the force that brought about chaos and nothingness into order and existence.


Seriously, it's not difficult to comprehend. Believing in Religion does not make you unscientific, being scientific does not make you non-religious either.

laugh

The god squad have changed what they believed over time to fit in with the world, the problem for them now is that the world changes too quickly and the flow of ideas and information isn't through them.

partyatmygaff

srfc19 wrote: »

I thought a belief in a God who 'created heaven and earth' was essential for the Catholic faith.
If we are to believe that humans are the only beings which could or would worship a God, why would said God not create these first rather then let them evolve?
There is a lot of blind faith required and i just cannot understand it personally.

Merely because you cannot understand that it is not blind faith. And lol @ this gem

"I thought a belief in a God who 'created heaven and earth' was essential for the Catholic faith."

:pac:

srfc19

andrew wrote: »

Regarding Catholics and Evolution, From Wikipedia:

I have read this before while researching the topic, but i always thought belief in the creator of heaven and earth was essential. I thought it was a package deal, not that people could pick and choose which parts they agreed with and which parts they didn't.

laugh

partyatmygaff wrote: »

How can some people STILL believe that Science and Religion cannot be independent of each other. They are two very different things.

Seriously, it's not difficult to comprehend. Believing in Religion does not make you unscientific, being scientific does not make you non-religious either.

The religion changed what it stated was immutable so many times in the face of scientific proof that it should be ignored.

partyatmygaff

laugh wrote: »

The religion changed what it stated was immutable so many times in the face of scientific proof that it should be ignored.

And what is the religion? I am not Catholic. And before you go off on one there is no undeniable proof for macro evolution, only for micro evolution.

Doc

srfc19 wrote: »

I have read this before while researching the topic, but i always thought belief in the creator of heaven and earth was essential. I thought it was a package deal, not that people could pick and choose which parts they agreed with and which parts they didn't.

Not strictly true as there are parts of the bible that where left out or ignored because they did not fit with in with the Ideas of the church as a whole in the past. Catholicism and its belief system are not as set in shone as many believe.

marco_polo

partyatmygaff wrote: »

And what is the religion? I am not Catholic. And before you go off on one there is no undeniable proof for macro evolution, only for micro evolution.

Exact same process, different timescales.

laugh

partyatmygaff wrote: »

And what is the religion? I am not Catholic. And before you go off on one there is no undeniable proof for macro evolution, only for micro evolution.

If you are Christian it all originated from the same bollox. So you need undeniable proof now?

partyatmygaff

marco_polo wrote: »

Exact same process, different timescales.

Macro evolution involves the mass mutation of a species in to form an entirely new species. If macro evolution was to be true then why is that Humans have no near equivalent (And no, other primates cannot be compared to humans as they may be somewhat similar but lack far too many things to be considered on the same level as human beings). Take the family of felines in the animal kingdom, there is the common cat at one end of the spectrum and the numerous big cats at the other end. All have similarities and the differences between each species of feline is minute compared to say a human and any other primate. There is something special about Human beings no doubt. After all, it is us as a species that examines other species, not the other way around.

laugh wrote: »

If you are Christian it all originated from the same bollox. So you need undeniable proof now?

Sorry, it's not worth my time even replying to that. In any case, I don't particularly find talking with militant atheists who cannot even have the common courtesy to respect others' beliefs to be worth my time.

IM0

"long long ago the earth cooled, life formed, and people have since been debating where it came from" - who cares?

lila44

Ush1 wrote: »

Actually it is a fact, a scientific empirical fact.

Just please don't tell me you're jumping on the "It's the theory of Evolution" thing.

well, it's not really a fact yet, there's the missing link.....

marco_polo

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Macro evolution involves the mass mutation of a species in to form an entirely new species. If macro evolution was to be true then why is that Humans have no near equivalent (And no, other primates cannot be compared to humans as they may be somewhat similar but lack far too many things to be considered on the same level as human beings). Take the family of felines in the animal kingdom, there is the common cat at one end of the spectrum and the numerous big cats at the other end. All have similarities and the differences between each species of feline is minute compared to say a human and any other primate. There is something special about Human beings no doubt. After all, it is us as a species that examines other species, not the other way around.


Sorry, it's not worth my time even replying to that. In any case, I don't particularly find talking with militant atheists who cannot even have the common courtesy to respect others' beliefs to be worth my time.

I can only presume you are completely unaware of the recent sequencing of the full Neatherthal genome for one, and the ever expanding hominid fossil record.

But then again as the old joke goes, for some people every time you fill in a gap in the fossil record it just creates two more gaps on either side.

partyatmygaff

me@ucd wrote: »

"long long ago the earth cooled, life formed, and people have since been debating where it came from" - who cares?

People spend so long thinking about how life came to be that they forget to live.

lila44

partyatmygaff wrote: »

People spend so long thinking about how life came to be that they forget to live.

deep :cool:

marco_polo

partyatmygaff wrote: »

People spend so long thinking about how life came to be that they forget to live.

Now that sentiment I can certainly agree with

Capt'n Midnight

R_H_C_P wrote: »

Watched a programme and they said that Darwins Theory of Evolution has been proven. Which dsiproves a "god". Right?

So what does ths mean for religion? Did you know it was proven before now? And will it have any effect on how you view religion right now? I know science isnt always the answer but at the same time they prove some stuff that would make you think. probably letting out loads of helpfull document etc but falling asleep.

Im beginning to think even if it it proved, it wont make a difference because churchs have brainwashed people into their religion.

You cannot prove a theory.
We use words like theorem for stuff that can be proved.

Gravity is also a theory.

Ape77

Humans evolved and as did the Gods. Think of how powerful God is after evolution,man. Phwoar!!!

sponsoredwalk

partyatmygaff wrote: »

micro evolution is proven and is a constant that cannot be debated.

The above quote is the most important sentence to think about for what follows.

However, as biologists define macroevolution, both microevolution and macroevolution have been observed.
Speciations, for example, have been directly observed many times, despite popular misconceptions to the contrary.

Additionally, the modern evolutionary synthesis draws no distinction
between macroevolution and microevolution, considering the former to simply be the latter on a larger scale.
An example of this is ring species.
link

partyatmygaff wrote: »

There is no hard evidence for macro evolution,

Basically you've fed into creationist propaganda arguing against macroevolution while fully supporting microevolution
even though macroevolution is defined as microevolution compounded over time :pac:
You basically gave away the leg you stood upon one sentence previously & didn't even realise it :P

Proof

partyatmygaff wrote: »

If macro evolution was to be true then why is that Humans have no near equivalent (And no, other primates cannot be compared to humans as they may be somewhat similar but lack far too many things to be considered on the same level as human beings).

Only around the 92 percentile mark in genetic similarity with other primates :pac:

You've admitted macroevolution exists because microevolution exists but for some reason here you doubt it's existence.

I think you're very confused about the subject due to misinformation.

People can spend so much time living they forget how to gauge life accurately or become biased, it's worth stepping back now and again

Nervous Wreck

Doc wrote: »

Catholicism and its belief system are not as set in stone as many believe.

*cough*TENCOMMANDMENTS*cough*

davrho

R_H_C_P wrote: »

Watched a programme and they said that Darwins Theory of Evolution has been proven. Which dsiproves a "god". Right?

So what does ths mean for religion?.

Nothing.

There is a documentry called "Science proves the existence of God" It shows the maths involved in the probability of life forms. Not great odds.

Why do folk make such a deal of this? If you believe in the big man, then fair play. If you don't good on ye.

partyatmygaff

davrho wrote: »

Why do folk make such a deal of this? If you believe in the big man, then fair play. If you don't good on ye.

+1

Agreed. Best to live and let live.