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The general standard of rehearsal rooms in Dublin

  • 25-07-2010 09:38AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭


    Recently, while waiting for fellow band members to arrive for a practice session, I had time to take in my surroundings. Toilets were almost third world, no loo paper or soap, and the towel had not been changed since dinosaurs roamed the area. The interior of the building itself was fairly rundown. The price per hour was anything but third world though. These places are like saunas in summer and ice boxes in winter. Then it dawned on me that this was basically par for the course for most other rehearsal rooms I have been in. The only reason I can think of why this should be, is that the owners know that generally a band cant practice anywhere and therefore are complacent when it comes to standards. I wont mention the number of times that amps have failed. I am a little more understanding here, because they probably get a lot of abuse.


    I do realise that there are probably lots of decent standard rehearsal rooms around Dublin, it's just that I have been unlucky enough not to come across them.


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Comments

  • Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    We've been trying various ones for a few months (I even started a thread about this recently)... So far, they're all about the same...

    We're about to switch to a private room I think... for this reason.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭Yrag2E


    yeah I suppose it all depends on where you go or where you've been.

    There is some pretty savage places about - Troubadour, Muzzle, Jam Factory for sessions. Not amazing but above standard for sure. The first two are pretty cheap

    Volt for full time

    I suppose when you look at these places, they wouldn't make a fortune and in some cases are just their to facilitate. Start up and running costs must be bank busting. Yeah maybe if you were harry crosby you could run one on the profits of everything else you own but as a start up, the banks don't lend and no investor is interested in making a substantial investment for a crap return.

    Amps, Kits, PA's etc etc that stuff is not cheap and especially for half decent equipment. Sound Proofing, interior, exterior. Electricity, heating, rent, city rates, phone, repairs, replacements. Bands aren't willing to pay the extra for the luxuries in my opinion, everyone is looking for the cheapest and that comes at a price

    If you are a full time band you should probably have your own place but there is absolutely nothing in place to facilitate this.

    There should be government interest in arts in Ireland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭Yrag2E


    that's my rant. Go to London and you'll find hundreds of them but this is Dublin and every one is out to screw everyone else.

    I think there is promise in the newer places. The original rehearsals are going down, they just don't care because they had no reason to. They might get in shape now there is a few more contenders....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 506 ✭✭✭Waking-Dreams


    Rigsby wrote: »
    The only reason I can think of why this should be, is that the owners know that generally a band cant practice anywhere and therefore are complacent when it comes to standards. I wont mention the number of times that amps have failed. I am a little more understanding here, because they probably get a lot of abuse.

    You have your fellow musicians who use these places to thank for busted equipment just as much as the owners.

    Have you ever run a rehearsal studio? Know how much it costs? What the over heads are? How, when you have a quiet week means having little money to pay for equipment repairs, etc?

    I agree rehearsal studios are in need of a good facelift but that costs money and I'm not sure how much money you think a facility makes, but I'll bet it's a lot higher than what is the reality for studios.

    This is taken from another thread but it's worth repeating.
    I'm not pointing the finger at the businessmen who run the rehearsal rooms and expecting them to dip into their pockets and improve their facilities overnight because in many cases the overheads are just so expensive (rent for a commercial premises, ESB, staff wages, insurance, phone/internet, equipment replacements) that they can probably just about afford to get by and provide a service to begin with.

    And, when you think about it, who damages the equipment in the first place? The musicians themselves. It's a circular problem where the studio doesn't want to kit out the place with top-notch gear because it will be abused and where an element of the musicians abuse the lesser grade gear because they devalue it, due to it not being their own and because it looks like it has been around the block a number of times. I mean, who steals cymbal felts off the drum kits that the studio has to resort to putting duct tape on the stands? And these same people probably nod their heads in agreement when others complain about the quality of band rehearsal rooms. The mind boggles.

    I spoke to the guys in one well-known Dublin city studio a good few years ago when I was still going there, and they said there wasn't much money to be made in running a rehearsal space, or not as much as people would like to think. A while back I drew up a business plan of my own to see if I could set up a facility where I live for local bands but I did the math and quickly discovered it would require a lot of capital to get off the ground. Plus, it's a very risky endeavour. You would need some decent funding at least for security. Bands these days are expected to pay around €60-€75 for a full back line, but would rather pay €35-€50 instead if they had a choice. Sadly, unless a studio is booked up all of the time, running at near full capacity, that kind of business model just wouldn't make economic sense.

    Fun with numbers:

    Say a rehearsal studio has 6 rooms, and is open 7 days a week, 12 hours a day, with four 3-hour slots in their daily schedule. Each 3-hour session works out at €50 for a full backline.

    That means that if the studio is at maximum capacity; 24 bands play in 6 rooms in a one day period, the studio makes a gross profit of €1,200 per day. That's only a potential so it's probably not that busy in most places. Even if the studio was able to generate a maximum total of €8,400 per week, it's theoretically possible but probably never happens save for once in a blue moon.

    One can only speculate how much business a rehearsal room brings in, but I'll hazard a guess and say it's only half of that amount; €4,200 per week, where the studio sees 12 bands per day (Saturdays and Sundays could be busier days but these even out on the quiet weeknights).

    So, with €4,200 per week, the studio has to deduct the following: rent for a commercial premises, ESB, staff wages, insurance, phone/internet, and then any equipment replacements.

    Some commercial properties with a lot of sq. ft space can be as high as €2,000 per week, then say a 3-man staff could be between €1,200-€1,500. Which leaves just €1,000 to cover all the other weekly bills, whatever they may be. It's doable, but that's counting on getting 12 bands per day, or 84 per week.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭Rigsby


    You have your fellow musicians who use these places to thank for busted equipment just as much as the owners.

    Have you ever run a rehearsal studio? Know how much it costs? What the over heads are? How, when you have a quiet week means having little money to pay for equipment repairs, etc?

    I agree rehearsal studios are in need of a good facelift but that costs money and I'm not sure how much money you think a facility makes, but I'll bet it's a lot higher than what is the reality for studios.

    This is taken from another thread but it's worth repeating.


    I hear you and basically agree. I'm not looking for the Hilton or the Conrad (just as well :D ), but surely replacing towels, soap and toilet paper is a basic necessity and not going to make them bankrupt.

    I have already acknowledged the situation with regards to amps and accept that other users are to blame for this.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭artvandulet


    I'm not pointing the finger at the businessmen who run the rehearsal rooms and expecting them to dip into their pockets and improve their facilities overnight because in many cases the overheads are just so expensive (rent for a commercial premises, ESB, staff wages, insurance, phone/internet, equipment replacements) that they can probably just about afford to get by and provide a service to begin with.

    And, when you think about it, who damages the equipment in the first place? The musicians themselves. It's a circular problem where the studio doesn't want to kit out the place with top-notch gear because it will be abused and where an element of the musicians abuse the lesser grade gear because they devalue it, due to it not being their own and because it looks like it has been around the block a number of times. I mean, who steals cymbal felts off the drum kits that the studio has to resort to putting duct tape on the stands? And these same people probably nod their heads in agreement when others complain about the quality of band rehearsal rooms. The mind boggles.

    I spoke to the guys in one well-known Dublin city studio a good few years ago when I was still going there, and they said there wasn't much money to be made in running a rehearsal space, or not as much as people would like to think. A while back I drew up a business plan of my own to see if I could set up a facility where I live for local bands but I did the math and quickly discovered it would require a lot of capital to get off the ground. Plus, it's a very risky endeavour. You would need some decent funding at least for security. Bands these days are expected to pay around €60-€75 for a full back line, but would rather pay €35-€50 instead if they had a choice. Sadly, unless a studio is booked up all of the time, running at near full capacity, that kind of business model just wouldn't make economic sense.

    Fun with numbers:

    Say a rehearsal studio has 6 rooms, and is open 7 days a week, 12 hours a day, with four 3-hour slots in their daily schedule. Each 3-hour session works out at €50 for a full backline.

    That means that if the studio is at maximum capacity; 24 bands play in 6 rooms in a one day period, the studio makes a gross profit of €1,200 per day. That's only a potential so it's probably not that busy in most places. Even if the studio was able to generate a maximum total of €8,400 per week, it's theoretically possible but probably never happens save for once in a blue moon.

    One can only speculate how much business a rehearsal room brings in, but I'll hazard a guess and say it's only half of that amount; €4,200 per week, where the studio sees 12 bands per day (Saturdays and Sundays could be busier days but these even out on the quiet weeknights).

    So, with €4,200 per week, the studio has to deduct the following: rent for a commercial premises, ESB, staff wages, insurance, phone/internet, and then any equipment replacements.

    Some commercial properties with a lot of sq. ft space can be as high as €2,000 per week, then say a 3-man staff could be between €1,200-€1,500. Which leaves just €1,000 to cover all the other weekly bills, whatever they may be. It's doable, but that's counting on getting 12 bands per day, or 84 per week.


    You're missing one massive cost with the above. VAT. All 21% of it!


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    You're missing one massive cost with the above. VAT. All 21% of it!

    OT, but it's Vandelay..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭Yrag2E


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    OT, but it's Vandelay..


    what does this mean?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭artvandulet


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    OT, but it's Vandelay..

    I realised that a few years back, but was too late :D

    Anyway, I prefer the original french spelling. ;)


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    Yrag2E wrote: »
    what does this mean?

    It's a comment about nothing.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 Carl-M


    There's a place called Dedsound in JFK Industrial park, Just off the Longmile road. They're fantastic facilities (Even a room called The Stage so you can rehearse with lights etc for choreography or whatever..)

    There's free bottled water in the fridge and if you use it more than once a wekk you get a discount. We rehearse there regularly. It's owned and run by a musician FOR musicians. I can PM the number if anyone wants, don't know if its ok to post up numbers on the forum.

    NO I DON'T WORK THERE NOR AM I AFFILIATED WITH IT.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭artvandulet


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    It's a comment about nothing.



    As an importer/exporter, I know about vat.


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    As an importer/exporter, I know about vat.

    They don't call you Koko for nothing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭artvandulet


    :D:D

    /hijacking thread.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭Yrag2E


    well he is right about VAT...any you are paying..21% of it goes straight to the government.

    Nice to see Dedsound jump on board


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 334 ✭✭DOTHEDOG


    the price of rehersal rooms in dublin is a complete rip off,i have rehersad basically everywhere in dublin over the last 20 years,the last time a i did reherse was 60 euro but dunno how much it is now


  • Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just out of interest, after looking at how much overheads cost, how much would do you think is a fair price to pay?

    60 for 3 hours seems reasonable. 5 an hour per band member. They'd spend more in a pub!


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    Papa Smut wrote: »
    Just out of interest, after looking at how much overheads cost, how much would do you think is a fair price to pay?

    60 for 3 hours seems reasonable. 5 an hour per band member. They'd spend more in a pub!

    much much much rather pay more for something better... course we have 5 people, so...


  • Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Oh, I agree. There's just a lot of whining and I would love to know what people think is a "reasonable" price. What would you consider, considering there's 5 of you in the band as well?


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    Papa Smut wrote: »
    Oh, I agree. There's just a lot of whining and I would love to know what people think is a "reasonable" price. What would you consider, considering there's 5 of you in the band as well?

    80-10 is there was a decent PA, reasonable facilities (nothing swank, but not scummy) and a wider selection of gear.

    One thing I DON'T get is this, in London I can easily go to a rehearsal space and get just a cab, no extra cost, instead on a crap combo... that way, I can just bring my head, get essentially my same sound, and not have to lug a cab around town...

    Seems like, if some spaces brought that in they'd SAVE money (pretty hard to destroy a cab) and the standard of bands would go up...

    at least a little bit...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭Yrag2E


    MilanPan!c wrote: »

    Seems like, if some spaces brought that in they'd SAVE money (pretty hard to destroy a cab) and the standard of bands would go up...

    we know now who is breaking all the equipment. Cabs can be wrecked easily..plugging a 150W amp in a 100W Cab will blow the speakers and you need a compatible cab - head.....hooking up a high OHM head to a low ohm cab will power surge the speakers. It won't happen straight away but a few people doing this will just destroy it

    Plenty of places offering the extra bit. Troubador/Muzzle/Dedsound are all offering rental amps/cabs. There is so many different amps with different sounds, it could be nearly impossible to cater for every one.

    It is not hard to do

    http://www.ruared.ie/musicroom.html this is what you are after but with equipment which they seem to lack. It is generic as **** and the sound sucks balls but there is clean toilets and hand dryers.

    I'm only defensive about this because so many people have no respect for these places and they all end up in a state and then give out about them being so bad. Have jammed in most places in town from when they were fresh to the state they are in now and it is down to bands not giving a f*ck about the rooms or the equipment. Price is always brought into the equation too, even if one person says they'd pay 100...1 out of 100 bands wouldnt.


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    Yrag2E wrote: »
    we know now who is breaking all the equipment. Cabs can be wrecked easily..plugging a 150W amp in a 100W Cab will blow the speakers and you need a compatible cab - head.....hooking up a high OHM head to a low ohm cab will power surge the speakers. It won't happen straight away but a few people doing this will just destroy it

    Plenty of places offering the extra bit. Troubador/Muzzle/Dedsound are all offering rental amps/cabs. There is so many different amps with different sounds, it could be nearly impossible to cater for every one.

    It is not hard to do

    http://www.ruared.ie/musicroom.html this is what you are after but with equipment which they seem to lack. It is generic as **** and the sound sucks balls but there is clean toilets and hand dryers.

    I'm only defensive about this because so many people have no respect for these places and they all end up in a state and then give out about them being so bad. Have jammed in most places in town from when they were fresh to the state they are in now and it is down to bands not giving a f*ck about the rooms or the equipment. Price is always brought into the equation too, even if one person says they'd pay 100...1 out of 100 bands wouldnt.

    I know that, I'm not looking to make all places be nice, have good gear, etc., I just want one...

    I never saw any cabs in Muzzle btw. ???

    I'm trying Jam this week, then maybe Troubadour next...

    I totally understand re: cabs etc., but the few places we rehearsed in London would basically do a 1 minute sanity check of the amp head and give you an appropriate cab.

    There's not that much variety and as long as you're not taking the piss, what's the danger?

    So, nicer place, with more gear, but more expensive, I'm sold.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭Yrag2E


    3 cabs on this page
    http://www.muzzlemusic.ie/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=34&Itemid=62

    yeah thats true..a lot of places have lock ups so you can throw your own gear in...better option


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    Yrag2E wrote: »
    3 cabs on this page
    http://www.muzzlemusic.ie/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=34&Itemid=62

    yeah thats true..a lot of places have lock ups so you can throw your own gear in...better option

    Sorry, I mean, I've been in the place and looked at the gear on offer and didn't see any, or else I woulda used it. ;)

    Maybe it need to be booked in advance?

    Who knows.

    Anyway, thanks for the heads up!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22 FSWU


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    I know that, I'm not looking to make all places be nice, have good gear, etc., I just want one...

    I never saw any cabs in Muzzle btw. ???

    I'm trying Jam this week, then maybe Troubadour next...

    I totally understand re: cabs etc., but the few places we rehearsed in London would basically do a 1 minute sanity check of the amp head and give you an appropriate cab.

    There's not that much variety and as long as you're not taking the piss, what's the danger?

    So, nicer place, with more gear, but more expensive, I'm sold.




    I agree 100% with you there, man. I was jammin in London over the last while too, was in this place called the joint in the sound stage room, was £22.50 an hour! Expensive but worth it!
    The gear was fantastic, I was going through an Ampeg 8x10 with svt pro! Ludwig kit, Fender Deville amps, and to top it off, theres 3 wedge mixes across front stage and a drum wedge mix, controlled by its own stage mix desk on stage right! Theres a FOH too, desk is feckin ginormous!
    Heres a link to the room (I dont work for the place, just an extremely chuffed customer!)

    http://www.thejoint.org.uk/studios/sound-stage-studio/

    How i wish there was a place like that in Dublin, id never leave :D

    But i suppose Londons much bigger and hence a lot more musicians and customers so a lot more money can go into a rehearsal room


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    FSWU wrote: »
    I agree 100% with you there, man. I was jammin in London over the last while too, was in this place called the joint in the sound stage room, was £22.50 an hour! Expensive but worth it!
    The gear was fantastic, I was going through an Ampeg 8x10 with svt pro! Ludwig kit, Fender Deville amps, and to top it off, theres 3 wedge mixes across front stage and a drum wedge mix, controlled by its own stage mix desk on stage right! Theres a FOH too, desk is feckin ginormous!
    Heres a link to the room (I dont work for the place, just an extremely chuffed customer!)

    http://www.thejoint.org.uk/studios/sound-stage-studio/

    How i wish there was a place like that in Dublin, id never leave :D

    But i suppose Londons much bigger and hence a lot more musicians and customers so a lot more money can go into a rehearsal room

    It's nuts really. Bands are able to get a LOT tighter pretty quickly due to the better standard of gear.

    I pretty much hated living in London, but as a musician, it was pretty sweet.

    That being said, if a place did set up that had top gear and charged say 25/hour to use it, we'd be there.

    I can understand as a rule of thumb, **** gets destroyed, but set aside a few proper rooms, just a few, and people will be fighting over them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 334 ✭✭DOTHEDOG


    exactly what i mean,some places do be in bits,no air at all maybe if there was even air then maybe 60 to 70 euro between 6 is fine but you are paying for a room not a dog box and proper equipment,some of the stuff don't even work


  • Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    DOTHEDOG wrote: »
    exactly what i mean,some places do be in bits,no air at all maybe if there was even air then maybe 60 to 70 euro between 6 is fine but you are paying for a room not a dog box and proper equipment,some of the stuff don't even work

    In a few of the places I've been in, very little of it worked properly.

    Anyway, that's kinda the norm.

    I hope that someone in the rehearsal rooms business is reading this and PMs the few interested parties, people willing to pay more to get more...

    [hint hint]


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 334 ✭✭DOTHEDOG


    hhmmm i might even get onto a few places and leave a link on their websits lol


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  • Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    DOTHEDOG wrote: »
    hhmmm i might even get onto a few places and leave a link on their websits lol

    hahahahaha...


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