Why?

Scarinae · 19-07-2010 10:48PM

desertcircus wrote: »

It teaches highly impressionable preteens that if your boyfriend ever loses control and hurts you, it's YOUR FAULT. It teaches them that they'll only ever fulfil themselves by getting married. It shamelessly harnesses the confusion that puberty produces and shovels money by doing so. It teaches them that your identity and personality have to be completely subsumed by your boyfriend's. It teaches them that an aggressive control freak who watches someone sleep is being "romantic" rather than "unhinged". It's a thinly-veiled attempt to terrorise teenagers into abstinence and marriage. And it's being targeted at people who are too young to see what's being done.

This is pretty much what I was going to say. It's ok to give up absolutely everything you have in your life, including friends and family, to spend time with your boyfriend. If your boyfriend leaves and says he doesn't love you, it's ok to dwell on him and continue to ignore all your other friends, you're just being loyal to the love that you shared. Oh, and try jumping off a cliff - that'll get his attention

Also, Bella is the one who keeps trying to initiate sex, and Edward has to continually fend her off with his superior self-control. Because, you know, women have no self-control and try to corrupt men all the time.

Edward is a horrible character really. He is possessive, manipulating, isolates Bella from everyone else in her life, and makes huge decisions without consulting her because 'he knows best'. As for Bella's character - what do we know about her? She's a bit of a moany arse, she's clumsy, and she's obsessed with Edward. Apart from that, she has very little personality. Not that her personality MATTERS when she's basking in the glittery rainbows cast by her vampire boyfriend.

Also, someone tweeted this recently - if your boyfriend is glittery and won't have sex with you, HE'S PROBABLY GAY

Greyfox · 19-07-2010 11:05PM

desertcircus wrote: »

It teaches highly impressionable preteens that if your boyfriend ever loses control and hurts you, it's YOUR FAULT. It teaches them that they'll only ever fulfil themselves by getting married. It shamelessly harnesses the confusion that puberty produces and shovels money by doing so. It teaches them that your identity and personality have to be completely subsumed by your boyfriend's. It teaches them that an aggressive control freak who watches someone sleep is being "romantic" rather than "unhinged". It's a thinly-veiled attempt to terrorise teenagers into abstinence and marriage. And it's being targeted at people who are too young to see what's being done.

Very well said!

The films and books are a pile of sh**e and written/told in a way that make it absolutely impossible for a guy to like them
OMG Edward is so hot, OMG Edward is so hot, OMG Edward is so hot, OMG Edward is so hot
OMG were so in love with each other, OMG were so in love with each other, OMG were so in love with each other, OMG were so in love with each other, OMG Edwards doesn't love me, OMG Edwards doesn't love me, OMG Edwards doesn't love me , OMG Edwards doesn't love me, OMG my life is over, I'm so, so depressed, OMG my life is over, I'm so, so depressed, OMG my life is over, I'm so, so depressed, OMG my life is over, I'm so, so depressed, OMG my life is over, I'm so, so depressed......and on and on and on the rubbish goes with nothing else happening...this trash is esentially all about how an uninteresting teenage girl feels all the time...it's quite simply the most irritating thing in the history of the world

SadieSue · 19-07-2010 11:10PM

Biggins wrote: »

Absolutely - I was referring to Twilight as the previous mentioned.

As for Buffy - Sarah and and her cast are personal friends.
Angle wasn't as good but they are good friends too.

Wow am a total David Boreanaz fan... jealous! haha

Buffy was the shiznit!

Jazzy · 19-07-2010 11:12PM

its completely retarded and a waste of your time and everyone elses.

now wheres that clip i keep for such occasions.. oh yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARa2eQ4Rqk0

19-07-2010 11:20PM

Meh, they're just books/movies. Who gives a flying f*ck who likes them and who doesn't.

Why do people feel the need to totally judge a person because of their guilty pleasures.

That's much sadder than enjoying a book about sparkly immortals tbh.

Millicent · 19-07-2010 11:26PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Meh, they're just books/movies. Who gives a flying f*ck who likes them and who doesn't.

Why do people feel the need to totally judge a person because of their guilty pleasures.

That's much sadder than enjoying a book about sparkly immortals tbh.

To be fair, I don't really judge people who read the books but I do worry about the message the books give to young people. I worry more about the Twimoms who should know better but for some reason don't and who let their daughters view the books as the bastion of romance.

I tried to read the first book out of fair mindedness and got through about three pages IIRC. I'm kind of glad that I didn't because a friend informs that in the fourth book, I think,

Bella has a vampire pregnancy and the baby tries to break it's way through her spine or some sh1t

. :eek: Who in the fu.ck would let their child read about something like that?!

Pace2008 · 19-07-2010 11:37PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Meh, they're just books/movies. Who gives a flying f*ck who likes them and who doesn't.

What's wrong with lambasting **** books/films/music, exactly?

It seems an unusual number of Righteous Self-Appointed Guardians of the Banal have cropped up recently on AH. I hate people telling me to simply ignore elements of media I don't like, especially the likes of Twilight which is literally everywhere. How can I ignore it when I constantly see its ads on telly and posters covering walls and buses, reminding me that mediocrity is the gold standard for which to aim?

19-07-2010 11:41PM

Pace2008 wrote: »

What's wrong with lambasting **** books/films/music, exactly?

Nothing, nothing whatsoever. I do it all the time. I just think it's stupid when people actually judge a person on one book/film they read.

I think you just need to relax about the whole thing, people get so worked up over such stupid sh*t. I find it amusing.

SadieSue · 19-07-2010 11:45PM

I think its the major hype that drives people nuts.

OutlawPete · 19-07-2010 11:46PM

desertcircus wrote: »

It teaches highly impressionable preteens that if your boyfriend ever loses control and hurts you, it's YOUR FAULT. It teaches them that they'll only ever fulfil themselves by getting married. It shamelessly harnesses the confusion that puberty produces and shovels money by doing so. It teaches them that your identity and personality have to be completely subsumed by your boyfriend's. It teaches them that an aggressive control freak who watches someone sleep is being "romantic" rather than "unhinged". It's a thinly-veiled attempt to terrorise teenagers into abstinence and marriage. And it's being targeted at people who are too young to see what's being done.

What nonsense.

People that knock the Twilight movies, all have one thing in common .. they take the series waaaaaaaaaaay too seriously.

It's a fantasy vampire movie for teen girls, that is all.

It's all very tongue in cheek and it is purposely all that is, it's laughably that it is being critiqued for the very reasons it has been successful.

To say that it is teaching girls that their "identity and personality have to be completely subsumed by their boyfriend's" is on par with the Daily Mail's contention that Kick Ass was a movie made for Paedophiles.

Superbus · 19-07-2010 11:49PM

Jazzy wrote: »

its completely retarded and a waste of your time and everyone elses.

now wheres that clip i keep for such occasions.. oh yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARa2eQ4Rqk0

In fairness, Harry Potter did, at first, have some element of description of characters, and explaining somewhat their complexities. It didn't begin as an exploitative, money-making scam on young people, though that is what it became.

It's hilarious how cynically written Twilight is, and frankly it makes me ashamed of the name Edward.

Pace2008 · 20-07-2010 12:02AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing, nothing whatsoever. I do it all the time. I just think it's stupid when people actually judge a person on one book/film they read.

You were the one to bring up judging people.

The OP's question was: why do people hate the Twilight series; the answer being: because it's **** and hyper-marketed.

Judging teenage girls for liking pap seems a bit lame (though there are till too many women nearer to 30 who think it's good literature).

OutlawPete wrote: »

It's all very tongue in cheek and it is purposely all that is, it's laughably that it is being critiqued for the very reasons it has been successful.

Is it, though? I tried to view it as such, as it would have made it a lot more palatable, but the whole thing seemed to take itself very, very seriously.

Millicent · 20-07-2010 12:10AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

What nonsense.

People that knock the Twilight movies, all have one thing in common .. they take the series waaaaaaaaaaay too seriously.

It's a fantasy vampire movie for teen girls, that is all.

It's all very tongue in cheek and it is purposely all that is, it's laughably that it is being critiqued for the very reasons it has been successful.

To say that it is teaching girls that their "identity and personality have to be completely subsumed by their boyfriend's" is on par with the Daily Mail's contention that Kick Ass was a movie made for Paedophiles.

Did you read the spoiler of my post Pete? You can't say that's not fudged up!

The thing about it is that's it not tongue in cheek. Stephanie Myers seems to love the character of Edward Cullen as much as the readers do. I don't think she takes the books in any way other than utterly seriously.

And there are some dangerously submissive themes in the books. Edward watches Bella sleep. She does not care about anything but Edward. When he leaves her, there are literally pages upon pages without text- her life is so meaningless without him that no story exists. Literally. That's not right for young girls to be consuming.

20-07-2010 12:18AM

Pace2008 wrote: »

You were the one to bring up judging people.

I think you'll find I brought it up because of the judging comments like "retarded teens" etc!

The OP's question was: why do people hate the Twilight series; the answer being: because it's **** and hyper-marketed.

I still find it amusing that people hate something so much, to the point of anger, and yet they've never read or watched it! (not applying this to you as I've no idea if you've seen/read it) I know that people are fed up of the whole consumerism crap but people take stuff way to seriously these days!

Judging teenage girls for liking pap seems a bit lame (though there are till too many women nearer to 30 who think it's good literature).

I honestly don't think there are many mature women who think it's good literature, but it makes for a good read! I'm a near 30 yo woman who got an A1 in higher level English, and who has won short story competitions and had a story published. I know that it's not going to win any pulitzer prizes. But it's an enjoyable read. The movies are, as I said before, a guilty pleasure, they are beyond corny and even cringeworthy at times, but so what, it's a bit of fun.

Ironically, I bought the books for my husband the Christmas before last, I heard "vampires & movie" and it was christmas eve and I needed some stocking fillers, I had no idea they were teenage romance stories

. He had all 4 books finished before the hols were over, and he loved them! And he is a highly intelligent/educated guy :pac:

OutlawPete · 20-07-2010 12:25AM

Millicent wrote: »

Did you read the spoiler of my post Pete? You can't say that's not fudged up!

Yes, but let's not jump ahead.

I can't judge the books as I have never read them.

Millicent wrote: »

Edward watches Bella sleep.

So what.

In the movie Untamed Heart, Christian Slater tells Marisa Tomei that he has been sneaking into her room to watch her sleep.

It's a movie, you're supposed to get lost in the fantasy, not take everything so literal.

Superman told Lois Lane to let go of the Helicopter and he'd catch her, should would strip that down to it's literal implication that women are being told to risk death if a man asks them too?

Millicent wrote: »

She does not care about anything but Edward. When he leaves her, there are literally pages upon pages without text- her life is so meaningless without him that no story exists. Literally. That's not right for young girls to be consuming.

Ah come on

It's a love story, for time and memorial romantic movies show a parter distraught at being left and feeling they have nothing to live for.

Why do people take these movies so seriously?

It's almost become fashionable at this stage.

Millicent · 20-07-2010 12:40AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Yes, but let's not jump ahead.

I can't judge the books as I have never read them.

So what.

In the movie Untamed Heart, Christian Slater tells Marisa Tomei that he has been sneaking into her room to watch her sleep.

It's a movie, you're supposed to get lost in the fantasy, not take everything so literal.

Superman told Lois Lane to let go of the Helicopter and he'd catch her, should would strip that down to it's literal implication that women are being told to risk death if a man asks them too?

Ah come on

It's a love story, for time and memorial romantic movies show a parter distraught at being left and feeling they have nothing to live for.

Why do people take these movies so seriously?

It's almost become fashionable at this stage.

K, well speaking as a writer, her literary abilities offend me from the offset so I'm already biased against the books. Check out these doozies as an example. Badly written, badly edited IMO. So take whatever I think with a pinch of salt.

The other thing is that while a lot of other love stories are intense, they're usually aimed at adults who have the experience to separate fact from fantasy and who aren't so easily impressionable.

Third thing is that these books are obsessive. I don't say that lightly. There are four separate references to how amazing Edward's breath is, 2 to his handwriting- :eek:. And that whole watching her sleep thing is every night for months. That's creepy. Combine that with the fact that he is a hundred and something year old vampire dating a high schooler, he verbally abuses her, makes all her decisions for her and treats her like a stupid little girl for most of the first book and you have a very unhealthy relationship, one that shouldn't be emulated unless you're in a sub/dom relationship.

Pace2008 · 20-07-2010 12:46AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I still find it amusing that people hate something so much, to the point of anger, and yet they've never read or watched it! (not applying this to you as I've no idea if you've seen/read it) I know that people are fed up of the whole consumerism crap but people take stuff way to seriously these days!

I stated earlier in the thread thatI'd read the first book and watched the first film. I'm a curious soul and I had to see if the Second Coming was really close at hand. I'll admit the book had one redeeming quality: it could be read in a few short hours.

I know that it's not going to win any pulitzer prizes. But it's an enjoyable read. The movies are, as I said before, a guilty pleasure, they are beyond corny and even cringeworthy at times, but so what, it's a bit of fun.

I'm going to have to accept that women are from a far-off planet, perhaps even one more distant than Venus. Everything about the novel railed against every notion of what I'd consider enjoyable, or even passable. I honestly think it's just the concept that appeals as it really is a badly written book.

But then, I'm not a teenage girl, or a girl of any kind for that matter, so I guess I'm just missing the point.

Millicent · 20-07-2010 12:54AM

Pace2008 wrote: »

But then, I'm not a teenage girl, or a girl of any kind for that matter, so I guess I'm just missing the point.

Well then, I may just hand in my ovaries cos I don't get them either!

Pace2008 · 20-07-2010 12:58AM

Millicent wrote: »

Well then, I may just hand in my ovaries cos I don't get them either!

Sorry, was a bit unclear there. Obviously, not all - or even most - women like them.

Jaxxy · 20-07-2010 01:03AM

Millicent wrote: »

The other thing is that while a lot of other love stories are intense, they're usually aimed at adults who have the experience to separate fact from fantasy and who aren't so easily impressionable.

Millicent has hit the nail directly on the head here. The issue isn't how badly the book is written or that people shouldn't enjoy it. The issue is the messages this book by its very premise is imparting on the young, impressionable and underdeveloped minds of girls.

It is NOT okay nor is it in any way romantic for a man to sneak in to your bedroom at night and watch you sleep. It is not okay for a woman to have to completely defer to her partner. Do what you're told and you'll stay alive? This sort of emotional abuse should not be heralded as the epitome of romance. The relationship between Edward and Bella in these books is what I would call unhealthy and IMO not something that young women should be striving for.

As we get older we become better equipped at separating reality from fantasy. Pre-teens, while they have this ability too, are not mentally prepared for many of the very adult concepts in these books.

Jazzy · 20-07-2010 04:11AM

people should have higher standards

desertcircus · 20-07-2010 10:12PM

There's a big difference between Twilight and Kick-Ass. Twilight is marketed intensely to preteen girls. Kick-Ass is rated 18. It's ILLEGAL to sell Kick-Ass on DVD to the people who buy Twilight films and books. Why? Because we don't think they're emotionally mature enough to make sense of something like Kick-Ass.

If Twilight was being marketed to jaded students and twentysomethings as being tongue-in-cheek, I'd have no problem with it. But it's being marketed to children who are a long way from fully understanding what's going on with their hormones, with no irony whatsoever. It's not tongue-in-cheek; it's badly disguised propaganda written by someone who openly admits as much.

bytey · 20-07-2010 11:17PM

thats not a vampire film

THIS is a vampire film
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvFDOs4Km4U

lila44 · 21-07-2010 12:16AM

i think people are taking the book waaaaaaaaaaaay too seriously, it's a story, a fantasy, and it's nice to get lost in it sometimes!!

you could say the same about video games, certain movies, society in general.

my wondering was that there are lots of movies/books that people don't like, what's so special about this one?

it's become cool to hate Twilight. You're cool if you hate it, uncool and "pre-teen emo" (even tho I'm 22) if you like it..

and frankly it's doing my head in.

Jaxxy · 21-07-2010 12:25AM

lila44 wrote: »

i think people are taking the book waaaaaaaaaaaay too seriously, it's a story, a fantasy, and it's nice to get lost in it sometimes!!

you could say the same about video games, certain movies, society in general.

my wondering was that there are lots of movies/books that people don't like, what's so special about this one?

it's become cool to hate Twilight. You're cool if you hate it, uncool and "pre-teen emo" (even tho I'm 22) if you like it..

and frankly it's doing my head in.

Seriously, have you read any of the responses here? Most people who have expressed their dislike for this "saga" have listed very concise and understandable reasons behind it.

If you like it and want to get lost in the fantasy that's your prerogative. You're twenty-two and capable of separating fantasy from reality and I'm sure you don't pray every night for an Edward to climb in through your window and watch you sleep at night while he fantasizes about physically and emotionally sucking you dry.

Of course there are plenty of movies and books that people don't like. Twilight is one of many badly written, controversial franchises that people have issue with I'm sure. You're just hearing more about the negative aspects of it because:

1. It's everywhere, and
2. You started a thread about it.

lila44 · 21-07-2010 12:30AM

JaxxYChicK wrote: »

Seriously, have you read any of the responses here? Most people who have expressed their dislike for this "saga" have listed very concise and understandable reasons behind it.

If you like it and want to get lost in the fantasy that's your prerogative. You're twenty-two and capable of separating fantasy from reality and I'm sure you don't pray every night for an Edward to climb in through your window and watch you sleep at night while he fantasizes about physically and emotionally sucking you dry.

Of course there are plenty of movies and books that people don't like. Twilight is one of many badly written, controversial franchises that people have issue with I'm sure. You're just hearing more about the negative aspects of it because:

1. It's everywhere, and
2. You started a thread about it.

you're probably right you know. What is it about boards and me having to sheepishly say "you know what, you're right...." :rolleyes:

beccabeccabecca · 21-07-2010 12:40AM

I have read all four of the Twilight books in an effort to see what the hype was all about (I haven't seen the films though). I found them poorly written with tired plot devices and very one dimensional characters. I also found Edward unbelievably creepy, controlling and emotionally abusive, and it freaks me out a bit that so many girls are going around saying that they'd love a boyfriend like him.

That being said, I'd never make fun of people for liking the series or judge them for it. We all have our guilty pleasures (mine are True Blood and all Jodie Picoult's novels). I just wouldn't be mad about discussing it with them either because it would lead to the inevitable "but how can you not like Edward/Jacob? They're so hot!"

Dudess · 21-07-2010 12:56AM

lila44 wrote: »

it's become cool to hate Twilight. You're cool if you hate it, uncool and "pre-teen emo" (even tho I'm 22) if you like it..

That doesn't mean there aren't people with their own minds who genuinely dislike it for other reasons besides trying to be cool (after a certain age people tend not to give a sh1t about what's cool or not anyway).

and frankly it's doing my head in.

That people dislike something you like? Ok.

Well why not focus so on the countless people who like it?

lila44 wrote: »

you're probably right you know. What is it about boards and me having to sheepishly say "you know what, you're right...." :rolleyes:

Oh yay, JaxxyChick gives ANOTHER clear and concise reason for the widespread dislike of the Twilight series... and you don't like her having a difference of opinion so you throw your toys out of the pram.

GirlOfGlass · 21-07-2010 01:42AM

I don't get why people cause so much uproar about the Twilight Saga.
They're books/films targeted for young teens and most of the people complaining how shíte they are are much older. So clearly you're not going to have as much interest in them regardless of whether you think they're shít or not.

I've read the all the books, no extraordinary writing or anything, they're an easy read - typical stuff that young girls love to read.
I've seen each movie to date, nothing spectacular either, but again I can see why young girls like them - 'Hawt' boys, romance, etc.

But seriously, the people who complain about it only cause more controversy, therefore more people going to see out of curiosity and so they can rant about how shít it is and how it's a disgrace to cinema.

If you know it's not gonna be worth the watch then don't watch it at all. Saves you from having to complain so much about it. It's just a book/movie.

RachPie · 21-07-2010 01:57PM

It's gas, don't know why there's such a reaction to the film at all! I watched it the other day cause of all the hype, and it was a pretty bog standard pre teen love story film. My guesses are the hatred started with guys getting jealous of the talent that the teeny girls went mental over in the film. Actually it's about time they brought a film out with more half naked guys than women in. Quite pleasing to the eye if I do say so myself!

Why?

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