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Where did we come from?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    WIZE wrote: »
    So how did like end up on earth That is the Question

    We were born here.

    Adam & Eve was discredited by the Catholic Church 30+ years ago. Ironically, there is a DNA Adam & Eve, Eve was first and lived some 3,000 years before Adam.

    Plus there has been life on our planet a lot longer than previously though ~ we could easily be on our third planet by now, but still kept in the dark ages because of a few power hungry individuals.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    gbee wrote: »
    We were born here.

    Adam & Eve was discredited by the Catholic Church 30+ years ago. Ironically, there is a DNA Adam & Eve, Eve was first and lived some 3,000 years before Adam.

    Plus there has been life on our planet a lot longer than previously though ~ we could easily be on our third planet by now, but still kept in the dark ages because of a few power hungry individuals.

    Whaaa?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    I don't know about the rest of you, but I came form the tip of my knob.*



























    *this may have happened on more than one occassion. Allegedly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,635 ✭✭✭maninasia


    I think we don't have a clue how life got started. Just a lot of not very well tested theories and new ones appear all the time. So it's jumping the gun to say water was absolutely the key to it all.

    As for liquid water, some bacteria have been proven to produce antifreeze which melts the frozen water around them for their use in their micrometre sized bubbles. http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/04/frostbite-not-for-these-microbes.html

    Bacteria's metabolism (meaning the chemical reactions they depend on to create energy and therefore the things they can live on) is incredibly diverse, probably much more than multi-cellular organisms and this points to the lie of thinking of them as 'simple' life-forms. they are not simple, they just have less genes and DNA than most multi-cellular organisms. However randomly DNA sequence a 100 different bacterial species and you will see a huge diversity of genes and metabolic pathways. Some bacteria live in complex communities and evolve as part of the ecosystem and the community they live in. I just think we know so little about bacteria on earth and seem pretty blind to that sometimes. Finally there could indeed be other life forms in our environment but we haven't detected them yet. Unlikely but still possible,especially in environments we are not very familiar with like upper athmosphere, deep earth. Remember most bacteria on Earth cannot be grown in a lab, we only know they exist from a technique which can detect their RNA.

    As for the fact that all life on earth seems to have a common progenitor it's certainly very interesting. But it doesn't mean that life could have formed by other methods..perhaps our current DNA based life (most theories even say DNA was not the precursor molecule of life) took over the niches that these other organisms may have occupied if they had a chance...or outcompeted them...or it really was a fluke and life only popped up once (statistically doesn't make sense, if it appears once it should appear more often, especially as life seems to have formed as soon as the crust solidified on early Earth). So I favour the theory that current lifeforms simply outcompeted other forms when they popped up. There are some major divisions early on though - archaea and bacteria. Although my favourite theory is that life was indeed seeded from outside. That might make the most sense given the size of the galaxy and the universe.

    http://www.panspermia.org/bacteria.htm

    Doing a little thought experiment, zoom out your view of Earth so that is one of only billions of planets in billions of solar systems in the Milky Way alone. Does it make sense to think of it as an 'isolated' earth or as part of a bigger ecosystem which is exchanging comets and dust and where solar systems pass each other as they whirl around the milky way. Wouldn't the idea of Earth being isolated start to look as ridiculous as a tree in the middle of a forest being isolated? I think the reason people feel Earth and the solar system is lonely is that the distance seems huge on our human terms, mainly because of our lifespans and limited technology at present. But it is not huge in the terms of the universe's history (12 billion years and counting).

    I think it's a huge mistake to limit the search for life just to 'our type of life' on earth. That just doesn't make sense as life is a series of self-sustaining chemical reactions and chemical reactions would be different in different environments.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    Kick back and enjoy:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 816 ✭✭✭Opinicus


    Rincewind did it.

    He dropped his egg sandwich into a pool of water.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    But maybe there are beings out there who by our standards would be "supernatural".

    And if that theory is correct, were did those aliens come from?

    Where did God come from?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,635 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Kick back and enjoy:

    This is a good theory, it's plausible..but it may not be correct.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,356 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    So is a higher being not a good theory?

    No, it's a bad guess...
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Were did the very first thing that started this evolutionary chain come from?

    Just because someone doesn't have a definitive anwser to that question, doesn't mean a "Higher Being" was envolved in the process...

    That line of query is a cop out. Looking for someone to show you, but then considering a "belief" as enough to show someone.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,292 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Morkarleth wrote: »
    Where did God come from?
    If it existed it doesnt need to come from anywhere. The concepts of before, from and Cause and effect are part and parcel of this universe, so the idea of something starting or coming before is entirely rooted within this universe. Any god equation would have very different figures in it. It might not be governed by causality for a start. It probably couldnt be by its nature.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    Wibbs wrote: »

    Well we don't know. Yet. Higher life forms need fairly specific conditions over very very long periods of time to form. It seems going by the earth anyway that bacterial life needs a couple of 100 million years to kick off. Then again Earth is very unusual. For the solar system anyway. Its the only one with plate tectonics. It has a very specific chemistry because of the impact that formed the moon. It had a thick dense atmosphere very early on, but one that thinned out in the "right" way, didnt blow off into space like mars, or get hotter and denser like venus. It has liquid water on its surface. It has an active core that provides an sheild against radiation. We also have a moon. The largest moon in comparison to the home planet in the solar system. It gave us huge tidal forces in the distant past which some surmise helped certain life processes along. It's a very long list.

    It is a long list indeed of the factors to do with Earth and our Universe which were necessary for life (as we know it) to take hold.

    Few examples;

    Our moon acts a shield absorbing possible dangerous asteroids from impacting Earth

    Distance from the Earth to the Sun is close enough that water is (predominatly) liquid but not too close that it all vapourises.

    Prescence of a magnetic field which diverts deadly solar rays and other radiation.

    Density of matter in the universe is just about correct to prevent the Universe from collapsing.

    Even more complex, an increase in Strong Nuclear Force would have meant that all Hydrogen in the Universe would have converted to Helium, meaning water could not form
    .

    This is known as the Anthropic Principle. Now this could be interpreted to mean that there must some sort of higher power which shepherded us into existence, given that there are so many factors which need to be present for us to exist. Another interpretation is that the Universe is the way it is because otherwise we wouldn't be here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    Okay, as far as I know it.

    Theory 1:
    There was water on Mars, This is shown because there is evaporated salt on the ground & the salt is supposed to have formed on mars in the prescence
    of water. Basically asteroids struck Mars & knocked some of the surface rocks into space & these collided with earth.
    There are plenty of Martian rocks that have been found on earth to give credence to this hypothesis. Martian bacteria on the rocks that originated in the once-present Martian seas could have been taken along for the ride... Furthermore, extremophile bacteria would be more than capable of surviving on those rocks in space for X number of years.

    Theory 2:
    The same situation with Venus only there is a lot less evidence for this one. Venus could have had hospitable life before what is called the "runaway greenhouse effect" that has taken over Venus' surface.

    Theory 3:
    The Szostak abiogenesis video that has just been posted.
    That is my personal favourite as it seems so plausible but I haven't really read any counter-criticism of it , which I'm sure exists.

    Theory 4:
    The Miller-Urey experiment extrapolated to the max!

    Theory 5:
    God did it in 6 days...

    All I can think of for now :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    maninasia wrote: »
    This is a good theory, it's plausible..but it may not be correct.

    But it works and is simpler than a supernatural being.
    It's where I'd put my money.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,057 ✭✭✭Krusader


    gbee wrote: »

    we could easily be on our third planet by now, but still kept in the dark

    I often thought that myself, if we want our species to survive, we really need to learn how to planet hop


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,292 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Crosáidí wrote: »
    I often thought that myself, if we want our species to survive, we really need to learn how to planet hop
    In a bloody huge way. If we dont we massively restrict our future as a species. Island species are very vulnerable to extinction. Just one colony on mars would increase our chances manyfold. It may not be earthlings who orbit another star in the future it could be martians, but they would be humans.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,057 ✭✭✭Krusader


    If we set up a colony on the moon, I vote for naming them
    Lunatics


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,349 ✭✭✭✭starlit


    evolution, that's how

    or maybe some supernatural being of which there is no evidence of made up by man put us here

    yeah i think i'll go with evolution

    I agree with you there! evolution....apes evolved into man! I honestly do not believe the whole adam and eve thing existed but if it did the way religious believers could be actually bending the truth in my opinion! could it be that man was made from woman rather than the other way around as they say the woman was made flesh from man? makes more sense that a man was made from a woman? could religious orders be covering this up?? now if there is some kind of DNA evidence of adam and eve chances are they could have been either apes, neanderthals, or quiet possibly the first of human kind after they evolved from apes?

    I believe in science alot more than religion no matter how much the church thinks otherwise or regardless what the bible says. there could have been a lot of bending the truth in it, half of it could be true, some of it tailored to suit religious believers! there are many other things i find hard to comprehend (will only go off topic if i start talking about the supposedly virgin mary, that jesus never had a woman??? - [think da vinci code ahhh!] but i don't deny that the holy mary, jesus and god exisited/exists.) :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    I agree with you there! evolution....apes evolved into man! I honestly do not believe the whole adam and eve thing existed but if it did the way religious believers could be actually bending the truth in my opinion! could it be that man was made from woman rather than the other way around as they say the woman was made flesh from man? makes more sense that a man was made from a woman? could religious orders be covering this up?? now if there is some kind of DNA evidence of adam and eve chances are they could have been either apes, neanderthals, or quiet possibly the first of human kind after they evolved from apes?

    I believe in science alot more than religion no matter how much the church thinks otherwise or regardless what the bible says. there could have been a lot of bending the truth in it, half of it could be true, some of it tailored to suit religious believers! there are many other things i find hard to comprehend (will only go off topic if i start talking about the supposedly virgin mary, that jesus never had a woman??? - [think da vinci code ahhh!] but i don't deny that the holy mary, jesus and god exisited/exists.) :confused:
    So were did the apes come from?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,349 ✭✭✭✭starlit


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    So were did the apes come from?
    species multiplied into apes etc :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    <pedantry>

    We didn't evolve from apes, we do, however, share a common ancestor

    </pedantry>


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,349 ✭✭✭✭starlit


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    <pedantry>

    We didn't evolve from apes, we do, however, share a common ancestor

    </pedantry>

    whats that then?:o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    I agree with you there! evolution....apes evolved into man!
    Humans did not evolve from apes. Both humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor.

    EDIT: 3 minutes late


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,349 ✭✭✭✭starlit


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    <pedantry>

    We didn't evolve from apes, we do, however, share a common ancestor

    </pedantry>
    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Humans did not evolve from apes. Both humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor.

    EDIT: 3 minutes late

    what common ancestor is that?:confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    what common ancestor is that?:confused:

    Not found yet, normally referred to as the 'missing link'


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    what common ancestor is that?:confused:
    Ape like people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 153 ✭✭Sonz


    What if we're all dolls being operated by something/someone or a monkey?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    I highly recommend watching Charles Darwin and the Tree of Life. Narrated by David Attenborough. Well worth a look.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,382 ✭✭✭Motley Crue


    I imagine it's something scientific, a cross between evolution and pure chance to be honest


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,349 ✭✭✭✭starlit


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    Not found yet, normally referred to as the 'missing link'
    ya remember learning about that from a documentary. (mysterious!) could be half human half ape!
    Ape like people.
    ah I get ya!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    species multiplied into apes etc :D
    Where did they come from then? Were did the very very first thing come from?


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