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Why does high reps = mass and low reps = strength?

  • 07-07-2010 11:37PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭


    Mate asked me in the gym why I was only doing 5 rep sets. I explained cos I'm not terribly interested in being hoooge, I'm happy with being strong.

    He looks blankly

    I explain generally, high reps and lower weight = big muscles whilst low reps and heavier weight = strength (comparitively).

    He asked why, when he thought the bigger you are the stronger you are and there I draw a blank. I know the above simply from reading this lovely forum and so on but I don't actually know WHY this is true. I googled it but don't really see anything definite about the matter.

    Does anyone have a good article they can share?

    Cheers

    A


«13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Parsley


    it isn't true. at all. bingo bango.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 472 ✭✭J-Fit


    Higher reps with a lower weight gives rise to greater acidity within the muscle cell and a concurrent increase in muscular damage. The muscles effectively repair themselves, i.e. synthesise protein in anticipation of the next pounding they're going to receive. Lower reps mean lower muscular damage and less hypertrophy.

    Work up to your max while just doing singles and you'll see you probably won't be as sore as when you hit a set to failure on 75% of your max.

    The bigger you are the stronger etc. doesn't necessarily hold true. Neural efficiency has as much to do with strength as muscle size.

    The lower reps thing doesn't always hold true either. If you're busting your ass to lift the 5th rep on a 5/3/1 max set, you're still causing a fair degree of muscular damage and you will experience increases in muscle size.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 We Were Promised Jetpacks


    Mate asked me in the gym why I was only doing 5 rep sets. I explained cos I'm not terribly interested in being hoooge, I'm happy with being strong.

    He looks blankly

    I explain generally, high reps and lower weight = big muscles whilst low reps and heavier weight = strength (comparitively).

    He asked why, when he thought the bigger you are the stronger you are and there I draw a blank. I know the above simply from reading this lovely forum and so on but I don't actually know WHY this is true. I googled it but don't really see anything definite about the matter.

    Does anyone have a good article they can share?

    Cheers

    A

    Check out sarcoplasmic vs myofibrillar hypertrophy online for some light bedtime reading :)

    Might be a bit heavy but check out http://www.weightrainer.net/physiology/Moore_Sarcoplasmic.html

    Plenty of references on there too.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Hmmm I always thought it was the opposite. Low weights & high reps = Stamania while high weights & low reps = strength + muscle mass.

    I suppose I better think again.


  • Posts: 15,055 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This Wiki picture is a good guide;


    497px-Hyperplasia_vs_Hypertrophy.svg.png



    Hypertrophy increases the size of the cells, Hyperplasia increases the number of cells. More cells = more strength.

    (I'm no expert, by the way, but this thread made me go and look it up).


    So... Theoretically, you could become both stronger and bigger by doubling you workout routine. The first time do heavy weights for lesser reps, the second time, do lighter weights for more reps?

    Hmm..


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 472 ✭✭J-Fit


    jank wrote: »
    Hmmm I always thought it was the opposite. Low weights & high reps = Stamania while high weights & low reps = strength + muscle mass.

    I suppose I better think again.

    No need, that's pretty much the way it is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,387 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Does anyone have a good article they can share?
    http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/nonfunctionalmyth.html

    And an article on gymnasts minimising hypertrophy http://sportsci.org/jour/0003/was.html
    jank wrote: »
    Hmmm I always thought it was the opposite. Low weights & high reps = Stamania while high weights & low reps = strength + muscle mass.
    Depends on what you consider low & high reps. When most people talk of high reps is 12 or maybe up to 15 -while you could be thinking of 100 pushups.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Thanks all :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29 steveoracle


    That Wikii article is awesomeness, I always wondered if this was true, cos neither seems to work for me.... Maybe I was just doing it wrong..

    S


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 192 ✭✭Blindside87


    I do a different amount of reps depending on which muscle I'm working. If I'm working my chest I normally aim to do sets of 6 reps, with arms I aim to do 8 reps. I thought this kind of gets the best of both worlds?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,370 ✭✭✭cmyk


    Hypertrophy increases the size of the cells, Hyperplasia increases the number of cells. More cells = more strength.

    I had always understood that hyperplasia had not been proven with regard to human muscle.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 779 ✭✭✭papajimsmooth


    cmyk wrote: »
    I had always understood that hyperplasia had not been proven with regard to human muscle.

    Yeah your right i think the wiki article he quoted is just explaining what hyperplasia and hypertrophy are, he just assumed it applied to skeletal muscle.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭Will Heffernan


    Parsley wrote: »
    it isn't true. at all. bingo bango.
    I'll second that.

    As with most issues...it's about frame of reference and context.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭Mickk


    My very simplistic theory on it is that if you you have just done 5 reps and you are pretty nackered you will probably not get a 6th rep, it's an extra 20% of the set (and mentally you probably wont attempt it). Whereas if you have just done 10 reps and you are just as nackered, there is twice the chance you will be able to squeeze out another rep. As arnie will tell you, it's all about that last rep...


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,165 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Mickk wrote: »
    My very simplistic theory on it is that if you you have just done 5 reps and you are pretty nackered you will probably not get a 6th rep, it's an extra 20% of the set (and mentally you probably wont attempt it). Whereas if you have just done 10 reps and you are just as nackered, there is twice the chance you will be able to squeeze out another rep. As arnie will tell you, it's all about that last rep...

    Or you could be bored by the time you get to that 10th rep and just want to stop.

    It really doesn't matter though as long as you're getting stronger I reckon.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79 ✭✭ducie


    ok so i want to tone up. am i better off doin heavy enuf so im just about able to do the 12th?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭Will Heffernan


    ducie wrote: »
    ok so i want to tone up. am i better off doin heavy enuf so im just about able to do the 12th?
    'Toning up' is about losing bodyfat and improving your body composition.

    You can do this by:
    a) doing no training at all and just dieting and creating a calorie deficit.
    b)doing low reps high intensity weight training and creating a calorie deficit.
    c) doing higher rep lower intensity weight training and creating a calorie deficit.
    d) taking up ten pin bowling and creating a calorie deficit.
    e) going for a walk...finding a bar to do some pull ups on and doing some push ups and creating a calorie deficit.
    f) flying kites and creating a calorie deficit.
    g) doing all of the above consecutively and creating a calorie deficit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79 ✭✭ducie


    'Toning up' is about losing bodyfat and improving your body composition.

    You can do this by:
    a) doing no training at all and just dieting and creating a calorie deficit.
    b)doing low reps high intensity weight training and creating a calorie deficit.
    c) doing higher rep lower intensity weight training and creating a calorie deficit.
    d) taking up ten pin bowling and creating a calorie deficit.
    e) going for a walk...finding a bar to do some pull ups on and doing some push ups and creating a calorie deficit.
    f) flying kites and creating a calorie deficit.
    g) doing all of the above consecutively and creating a calorie deficit.

    so what ur saying is i need to create a calorie dificit?

    when you say high intensity do you mean more weight?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭Will Heffernan


    ducie wrote: »
    so what ur saying is i need to create a calorie dificit?
    Did I mention that?
    when you say high intensity do you mean more weight?
    Yes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,024 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    'Toning up' is about losing bodyfat and improving your body composition.

    You can do this by:
    a) doing no training at all and just dieting and creating a calorie deficit.
    b)doing low reps high intensity weight training and creating a calorie deficit.
    c) doing higher rep lower intensity weight training and creating a calorie deficit.
    d) taking up ten pin bowling and creating a calorie deficit.
    e) going for a walk...finding a bar to do some pull ups on and doing some push ups and creating a calorie deficit.
    f) flying kites and creating a calorie deficit.
    g) doing all of the above consecutively and creating a calorie deficit.

    For time?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79 ✭✭ducie


    'Toning up' is about losing bodyfat and improving your body composition.

    You can do this by:
    a) doing no training at all and just dieting and creating a calorie deficit.
    b)doing low reps high intensity weight training and creating a calorie deficit.
    c) doing higher rep lower intensity weight training and creating a calorie deficit.
    d) taking up ten pin bowling and creating a calorie deficit.
    e) going for a walk...finding a bar to do some pull ups on and doing some push ups and creating a calorie deficit.
    f) flying kites and creating a calorie deficit.
    g) doing all of the above consecutively and creating a calorie deficit.

    so ur saying you dont have to do any weights atall to "tone up" or lose body fat?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,284 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    ducie wrote: »
    so ur saying you dont have to do any weights atall to "tone up" or lose body fat?

    Correct, to lose body fat you must create a calorie deficit, there is no other way.

    Weights along with a good diet can help with creating this deficit though.

    Nate


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79 ✭✭ducie


    ok thanks for the info.
    ill start after oxegen:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭Scuba Ste


    But if you do no training at all and just eat a calorie deficit you will lose weight all right but you may not get the infamous 'toned' look. You can end up just looking skinny. If you do some training and cut calories you can build some muscle mass and look 'toned' or athletic or fit or whatever you call it. That's my 2c.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭Will Heffernan


    d'Oracle wrote: »
    For time?
    What?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,024 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    What?

    Lil' joke.
    Sorry.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭Will Heffernan


    ducie wrote: »
    so ur saying you dont have to do any weights atall to "tone up" or lose body fat?
    Your muscle doesn't lack 'tone'...even prisoners of war have 'tone'...I don't suggest that as a fat loss strategy though....although at least then you could say you went to a proper boot camp.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭Will Heffernan


    Scuba Ste wrote: »
    But if you do no training at all and just eat a calorie deficit you will lose weight all right but you may not get the infamous 'toned' look.
    Half true...you'll still look 'toned' there just won't be much to look at.
    Scuba Ste wrote: »
    You can end up just looking skinny.
    Absolutely true.
    Scuba Ste wrote: »
    If you do some training and cut calories you can build some muscle mass and look 'toned' or athletic or fit or whatever you call it. That's my 2c.
    Doesn't happen...not with out a pharmaceutical intervention...you are not building mass on a calorie deficit. Simple as that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭Will Heffernan


    d'Oracle wrote: »
    Lil' joke.Sorry.
    I'm pretty thick...you need to type slower.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    ducie wrote: »
    so ur saying you dont have to do any weights atall to "tone up" or lose body fat?

    Well do the kids in the live aid videos look like they've been pumping iron?


This discussion has been closed.
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