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When & How could there be a united Ireland?

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Comments

  • #512
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    If it is not to come about until a majority in NI want it, I'm quite safe. Because it ain't gonna happen in my lifetime or in the lifetime of anybody already born, or their children or grandchildren.

    Totally agree with that one.. i'm so happy that someone has said that as they disagree with me.


  • #513
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    If it is not to come about until a majority in NI want it, I'm quite safe. Because it ain't gonna happen in my lifetime or in the lifetime of anybody already born, or their children or grandchildren.

    You can believe what you want to believe.There will be a UI within 50 years, I am sure of that.


  • #514
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    gurramok wrote: »
    I did not ask if you would be better off in a UK or a UI.

    I asked are you willing to pay the price to maintain the Union no matter what?

    Didnt you read my last two posts ?

    Would you be willing to pay the price to establish a United Ireland no matter what?


  • #515
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    You can believe what you want to believe.There will be a UI within 50 years, I am sure of that.

    Theres no way that,thats going to happen, the protestant churches
    are increasing in my town and the catholic church is decreasing they only have one priest or something for the whole town.;) Plus theres a village up the road from me which is 99% protestant do you expect that to turn into 99% catholic in 50 years?? you gota be joking!


  • #516
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    lugha wrote: »
    Right, let's take one of them, possibly the biggest. The distrust between the two communities. Can you explain how a united Ireland will fix that?
    A federal republic will provide Unionists with just as much,if not more of a say in how Ulster is run, while nationalists will feel that the wrongs of the past will have been righted, the threat of the BA will be forever gone etc.... it wont happen overnight of course.


    Just a point, A federal republic has been rejected before as throwing nationalists under the bus.... however today and in the future I feel it is a fair solution/compromise.


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  • #517
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    The "problem" that there will eventually be a time when nationalists will be in a majority in NI and will want to join the Republic.Why don't you ask them what the problem is?
    There are problems. But a united Ireland won't fix them.


  • #518
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    The problems that have plagued the north since partition. To have a inclusive country for all, that all can feel a part of.

    That's a fairly empty argument, not even as appealing as Mom's apple pie.


  • #519
    jordan..
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭jordan..


    gurramok wrote: »
    I did not ask if you would be better off in a UK or a UI.

    I asked are you willing to pay the price to maintain the Union no matter what?

    I have noticed this is the second time you have asked this without getting an answer! Good question! Curious as to what is dished up as a reply!


  • #520
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    owenc wrote: »
    Theres no way that,thats going to happen, the protestant churches
    are increasing in my town and the catholic church is decreasing they only have one priest or something for the whole town.;)

    Thought we had established that religion /=/ nationalism ?


  • #521
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    lugha wrote: »
    There are problems. But a united Ireland won't fix them.
    How will you fix them? The status quo sure is not.


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  • #522
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    lugha wrote: »
    There are problems. But a united Ireland won't fix them.

    In fairness, its unlikely to be a bigger disaster than NI has proved to be.Whether it fixes the problems or not, we will have to accept the democratic wishes of the people of NI when they want to join the south.


  • #523
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Thought we had established that religion /=/ nationalism ?
    Yes, but it is the best way to gauge these things.


  • #524
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    owenc wrote: »
    Theres no way that,thats going to happen, the protestant churches
    are increasing in my town and the catholic church is decreasing they only have one priest or something for the whole town.;) Plus theres a village up the road from me which is 99% protestant do you expect that to turn into 99% catholic in 50 years?? you gota be joking!

    It is clear from your post that you think the words "unionist" and "protestant" are interchangeable.They are not.

    Anyway, obviously not every village in NI will turn nationalist but yes, I believe that there will be a time when there will be at least a 51% nationalist population in NI.


  • #525
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    but yes, I believe that there will be a time when there will be at least a 51% nationalist population in NI.
    I believe youre wrong
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Yes, but it is the best way to gauge these things.

    Aside from asking people directly........
    jordan.. wrote: »
    I have noticed this is the second time you have asked this without getting an answer!

    I think I answered clearly enough

    Still no takers on mine though
    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    If it is the case that Northern Ireland represents a net economic burden on the public purse does this amount to an argument for or against a United Ireland


  • #526
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    A federal republic will provide Unionists with just as much,if not more of a say in how Ulster is run, while nationalists will feel that the wrongs of the past will have been righted, the threat of the BA will be forever gone etc.... it wont happen overnight of course.
    We currently have a power sharing arrangement and there is still a degree of sectarianism. How will power sharing in a UI get rid of that?


  • #527
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Didnt you read my last two posts ?

    You were on the fence with a perhaps or a perhaps not answer. Owen was a determined no.

    So are you still on the fence when you have to pocket money to maintain the Union?
    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Would you be willing to pay the price to establish a United Ireland no matter what?

    To answer this for the 2nd time, yes.


  • #528
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    owenc wrote: »
    Totally agree with that one.. i'm so happy that someone has said that as they disagree with me.

    I'm not saying anything about the prospects for any great-grandchildren you might have!


  • #529
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    If you are British from the "mainland" it is an argument for.


  • #530
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    I think I answered clearly enough

    Still no takers on mine though

    Obviously economic issues are a factor, but its far more important that the democratic wishes of the people of NI will be respected when the nationalists are in the majority.


  • #531
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    How will you fix them? The status quo sure is not.
    I think the current arrangement, though not imperfect, offers the most promise. Eventually, we will all be gobbled up by a US of Europe.


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  • #532
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    lugha wrote: »
    I think the current arrangement, though not imperfect, offers the most promise. Eventually, we will all be gobbled up by a US of Europe.
    The power sharing is put up with by many as it is seen as a vehicle towards a UI. Something will have to give eventually.


  • #533
    jordan..
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭jordan..


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    Obviously economic issues are a factor, but its far more important that the democratic wishes of the people of NI will be respected when the nationalists are in the majority.

    But they wont be, unionists continually behave as if their culture is under attack. They wont yeild. No will be their famous last words.


  • #534
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    Obviously economic issues are a factor, but its far more important that the democratic wishes of the people of NI will be respected when the nationalists are in the majority.

    1) "When" ?????
    2) What about before then ?
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    If you are British from the "mainland" it is an argument for.

    Suppose Or Irish/British/Whateveryerhavinyerself from Northern Ireland ?
    Or the Republic ?

    gurramok wrote: »
    So are you still on the fence when you have to pocket money to maintain the Union?.

    Apologies to everyone else for repeating myself/stating the blindingly obvious but since you insist............

    It depends on how much money we are talking about

    Happy now ?


  • #535
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    jordan.. wrote: »
    But they wont be, unionists continually behave as if their culture is under attack. They wont yeild. No will be their famous last words.
    Hopefully the unwarranted siege mentality will fade with the decline of some of the more diehards.


  • #536
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Hopefully the unwarranted siege mentality will fade with the decline of some of the more diehards.

    I've a feeling people were saying that 90 years ago though...


  • #537
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    I've a feeling people were saying that 90 years ago though...
    You never know, Paisley may take it to the grave with him.


  • #538
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    You never know, Paisley may take it to the grave with him.

    Let's hope so.


  • #539
    jordan..
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭jordan..


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Suppose Or Irish/British/Whateveryerhavinyerself from Northern Ireland ?
    Or the Republic ?




    Apologies to everyone else for stating the blindingly obvious but since you insist............

    It depends on how much money we are talking about

    Happy now ?

    Not very loyal :p


  • #540
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    In fairness, its unlikely to be a bigger disaster than NI has proved to be.
    True, NI has not worked. When a state only considers the political aspirations of the majority, things tend not to work. This was the case on a large scale in GB and I when Britain denied some of the Irish the right to self rule. This was the case on a small scale in NI when unionists excluded nationalists. Regrettably, republicans have this Goldilocks thinking going on that if we did it again on medium all-Ireland scale, it’s going to be third time lucky.
    trapsagenius wrote: »
    Whether it fixes the problems or not, we will have to accept the democratic wishes of the people of NI when they want to join the south.
    No arguments there. I am a democrat and will abide by the will of the people, unlike the likes of Pearse and co and the dissidents. I will just be doing my best to persuade people to engage the organ between their ears, rather than the one further down, when they consider the matter. :pac:


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  • #541
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    jordan.. wrote: »
    Not very loyal :p

    Your point being ?


This discussion has been closed.
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