women in the irish army

Fuinseog · 07-02-2010 11:12pm #1

i just read that some wan has brought out a book about how sexist the army is. she is bitching that soldiers abroad drank alcohol and had sex with prostitutes. she seems to make agood arguement for not letting women into the army.
boys will be boys and girls will be girls.

according to the Army those days are gone. so what doe the army look like today. metrosexual?

private2bcadet · 02-07-2010 4:29pm

well, im in the army reserve, and hope to be in the PDF soon... so i can tell you what i know... that woman is an idiot. shes making money off the DF.. just like all the unloyal arseholes who sued the army cos THEY didnt wear their peltors and destroyed their own ears.

that womans book whinges about sexism, i saw her on the late late show. some of her complaints were that soldiers would say to her 'ah you cant do that ill get one of the lads to help us' .. shes a disgrace to all the fine women serving in the DF. women are smaller and not as strong as men. if someone says hold on ill get one of the lads to help us lift this, it isnt sexism.

now as for the prostitute stuff... thats not sexism. they didnt do anything to her. they wanna go behave like arseholes on their own accord, although i disagree as its disgracing the DF, thats their perogative. nothing to do with her...

also, the army, even the army reserve is hard. its a hard job. partially its 9-5 but its 95 times harder than any other 9-5. if you want a good comedy show, just put cameras around an irish or british army barracks. everyone in the DF jokes, lots of jokes are told every minute, everyone slags everyone. if ya cant take it then how are you going to take combat in your stride if you have to.

all the women i know in the DF, pdf and rdf are sound, are great soldiers, ARE up for the craic, and arnt stupid enough to be offended by other men shagging prostitutes. well, they'd be offended, but for the right reasons(making the DF look bad).

in my opinion, it just seams like this woman was just too soft for the army, and has no sense of national pride or pride in the DF. she just cares about making her few bob on the book

if you read that book id take EVERYTHING with a pinch of salt. there have been people like her before.... not good enough for the job, so make it look like the job was bad, and not them

the army aint a mens organisation, its a strong persons organisation. male of female

private2bcadet · 02-07-2010 4:31pm

meant to say male OR female

meoklmrk91 · 02-07-2010 4:45pm

Quite frankly the idea of not letting women join the army is the most sexist thing possible, just because women may not be typically as strong as men does not mean that they don't have something to bring to the table in the IDF, whether it be in the field or otherwise.

This woman is doing to disservice to all the women in the IDF, it sounds like she just needed to lighten up a small bit to be honest. So what if her co-workers were visiting prostitutes, I sincerely doubt that is an issue exclusive to the Army. No matter where you go or what you do, you are always going to come across people you dislike or disagree with, thats just a fact of life.

I pretty much think that this is a non-issue, most young people in Ireland now, despite the majority going to un-mixed schools are well able to socialize with the opposite sex. I go to a smaller mixed school and we all just muck in together and have a laugh, I think that the IDF will be like that soon, if it isn't already.

Fuinseog · 02-07-2010 5:12pm

[

now as for the prostitute stuff... thats not sexism. they didnt do anything to her. they wanna go behave like arseholes on their own accord, although i disagree as its disgracing the DF, thats their perogative. nothing to do with her...

, they'd be offended, but for the right reasons(making the DF look bad).
the army aint a mens organisation, its a strong persons organisation. male of female[/QUOTE]

after about 500 views someone finally comments. boys will be boys. i thin she was also critical of tehm having afew beers. she did a lot of damage with the prostitution thing. soldiers' wives watched the late late and immediately suspected their husbands. what goes on tour should stay on tour.

Fuinseog · 02-07-2010 5:16pm

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

Quite frankly the idea of not letting women join the army is the most sexist thing possible, just because women may not be typically as strong as men does not mean that they don't have something to bring to the table in the IDF, whether it be in the field or otherwise.

.

let them in by all means, make a few ammendents but essentially the army is supposed to be tough.
you had another one, an officer and society girl, who cleared off to the disco when she was supposed to be on guard duty.
at her court martial she tried to claim sexism.

meoklmrk91 · 02-07-2010 5:51pm

Fuinseog wrote: »

let them in by all means, make a few ammendents but essentially the army is supposed to be tough.
you had another one, an officer and society girl, who cleared off to the disco when she was supposed to be on guard duty.
at her court martial she tried to claim sexism.

Are you saying women can't be tough?, if so thats just preposterous, there is no need for amendments or anything of the sort, just an open mind. Just because there are a few idiots who happen to be female in the Army and choose to claim sexism instead of taking responsibility for their actions that does not mean anything, there are men who will do and have done the exact same thing I'm sure, they will just have another bull**** reason for their stupidity.

private2bcadet · 02-07-2010 6:53pm

Fuinseog wrote: »

let them in by all means, make a few ammendents but essentially the army is supposed to be tough.
you had another one, an officer and society girl, who cleared off to the disco when she was supposed to be on guard duty.
at her court martial she tried to claim sexism.

no the stupid eejit owed someone money and she was meant to be orderly officer and she fecked off to pay off the money, shes stuck at lieutenant for the rest of her career now, she should have been discharged, considering a sailor was discharged for telling his girlfriend where his ship was, this issue was just as serious. that eejit couldnt accept responsibility for her actions, from what i know she cant go overseas either... thank god.

private2bcadet · 02-07-2010 6:58pm

k i just want to say people need to cop on, theres people arguing on this already, this isnt youtube, this is where the people who actually know what there talking about, debate! not argue, no one is sugesting women cant be tough, were just saying its a fact that they are, by majority, not as physically strong as men, for gods sake you cant argue with biology!

lets get back to the issue, should women be aloud in the army, yes, and they are, they actions of some pathetic excuses for soldiers and officers, just cos their female, doesnt mean females shouldnt be aloud, look at all the stupid things men have done in armies,.. should we ban men too? be realistic people, sex actually has no baring on someones ability to perform as a soldier or officer after training. the ONLY things it has an affect on is physical capabilities and women can seam to be more cocky when getting in trouble.

Poccington · 02-07-2010 8:00pm

private2bcadet wrote: »

no the stupid eejit owed someone money and she was meant to be orderly officer and she fecked off to pay off the money, shes stuck at lieutenant for the rest of her career now, she should have been discharged, considering a sailor was discharged for telling his girlfriend where his ship was, this issue was just as serious. that eejit couldnt accept responsibility for her actions, from what i know she cant go overseas either... thank god.

You don't know much.

The Lt. in question is no longer a member of the Defence Forces.

Avgas · 02-07-2010 9:17pm

The major gripe as I see with that Book and her Late Late performance, was that she identified a serving member of the ARW and failed to take account of his career and image......

A more interesting and repeated point made in the book is the gulf between enlisted personnel and officers...which is always there in all armies and necessary...BUT she seemed to be arguing in the Irish DF it was actually a problem......don't know if people would care to comment on that.......?

I do not feel the need to be personally insulting to any lady I don't know....but I've read her book and she seemed to be a quite a bit unrealistic...I mean her big thing was to get into the ARW.......which is just so competitive and can come down to poxy things like injuries before selection...was it really a realistic goal for her, she never asked herself that?

The revelations about the Eritrea mission were not a revelation for most DF personnel and even for some civies....but that was a serious breech of discipline and conduct and surely must rate as one of the worst run missions from a discipline/morale perspective, or am I being unfair?

What DF personnel do out of uniform in their own time while not operational is nobody's business.

Having sex (and consider the HIV risk) with prostitutes, some very young perhaps, close to your own base, and while on a peace-keeping/monitoring mission, and while in Irish army uniform is simply not acceptable-...no ifs, buts, excuses.......political correctness does NOT come into it. Cop on and professionalism does.

And from what I understand there was actually more serious carry-on than just a few guys having paid sex...like that has never ever happened before!

Yes boys will be boys...but professional soldiers are not boys....and if you want to let off steam...do it out of uniform, off base and and out of theatre....and off camera as well!

We have been perhaps very very lucky.

German army in Kosovo have also come under major parliamentary flak for Bundeswher soliders (allegedly) frequenting local brothels....(prostitution is legal under certain (supposedly) strict conditions in Germany so culturally German soldiers may not have seen it as big a no-no, however in Kosovo the problem is that Brothels are almost certainly run by organized crime and may have women who have been 'trafficed/co-erced'....)

Prostitution is NOT legal is Ireland, so how could one consider it acceptable while in Irish Army uniform serving your country overseas? How could one not accept that if you were caught with your pants down that way...it would be anything other than a ticket out of the DF?

In Somalia.... Canada's Paratrooper regiment-an elite and respected force-were entirely abolished by the politicians because of a failure to address a scandal about a few guys who were beating the crap out of desperate kids stealing, begging and causing a general nuisance. A few soliders over reacted and went too far on a 'we'll teach them a lesson' logic. Some idiot took photos/video......in the old days it would have been sorted quietly...probably even by NCOs and junior officers......The Canadian closed down the entire unit..it had battle honours from Arnhem I think!

BUT this is the YouTube generation.. most phones have video grab and reasonable cameras...

Wake up!

Local-womanizer · 03-07-2010 3:49am

I agree with that Avgas,certain conduct carried out in Eritrea was not on,but wasent it dealt with through official channels within the DF and the Government?

If so,what right does she have to drag up the whole mess again?

From what I have heard,her comments on the Late Late really have had a huge affect on serving and ex soldiers,she claimed all males in Eritrea were shagging all around them,which was simply not true.

And arent there numerous issues in her book that fail to match up with reality? From what I have heard she got dates wrong involving courses and her recruit training.

And then identifying a member of the ARW,I mean does the phrase "have some cop" not exist in her vocabulary?

From my view on the situation,and this is purely my view,it seems as she was done wrong by the DF somewhere down the line and now is trying to get her own back.

On the issue of females in the Army,if they can cut it,then why not. I know many a women in the DF well able for it and are frankly disgusted by the behaviour of the aforementioned women....

private2bcadet · 03-07-2010 3:39pm

Poccington wrote: »

You don't know much.

The Lt. in question is no longer a member of the Defence Forces.

hey,, no need for this 'you dont know much' ****e, this isnt youtube where frustrated kids vent their anger at eachother, were debating here, i do 'know much',, but from what i had read she had been barred from promotion and overseas duty, i did not know she was no longer in the DF... that said, thanks, you made me happy by telling me she was gone

private2bcadet · 03-07-2010 3:45pm

i think a general reply i can say to everyone here is that everyone seams to be on the right page, we all know she was wrong, she was addressing issues that did happen, and were VERY wrong, but that had already been dealt with, she had no right to bring it all up again and make the DF look bad when in reality she just couldnt handle the difficulties of the job.

i have to say though, to the person who thought she might have been done wrong in the past by the DF or something, you are more than likely right!!

this kind of thing happens in all organisations.
ya think if she was actually a good enough soldier and made it into the ARW, and was actually able to act professionaly and handle the harshness of military service, would she be writing books about bitching about the DF, OR would she be telling all er friends how much she loves her job

its kinda fair to say i think, shes just acting like a big baby. for want of a better phrase.

Poccington · 03-07-2010 6:13pm

private2bcadet wrote: »

hey,, no need for this 'you dont know much' ****e, this isnt youtube where frustrated kids vent their anger at eachother, were debating here, i do 'know much',, but from what i had read she had been barred from promotion and overseas duty, i did not know she was no longer in the DF... that said, thanks, you made me happy by telling me she was gone

You don't tell other people what kind of reply to post, leave that to the Mod's.

I served with the Lieutenant in question and have been on courses run by that same Lieutenant. You made a post about a subject which you obviously didn't know much about because your whole post was wrong. It's simple enough.

private2bcadet · 03-07-2010 8:36pm

Poccington wrote: »

You don't tell other people what kind of reply to post, leave that to the Mod's.

I served with the Lieutenant in question and have been on courses run by that same Lieutenant. You made a post about a subject which you obviously didn't know much about because your whole post was wrong. It's simple enough.

NO WAY i made a post on which i know nothing about... your a smart one... obviously, i made a post about something i dont know about, thats why we make them isnt it

Poccington · 03-07-2010 8:43pm

private2bcadet wrote: »

NO WAY i made a post on which i know nothing about... your a smart one... obviously, i made a post about something i dont know about, thats why we make them isnt it

You made your post regarding the Lt. in an attempt to correct another poster.

If you're going to correct another poster, it would help if you knew what you were talking about too.

Delancey · 03-07-2010 10:02pm

That same Lt. seemed to have an extensive disciplinary record for someone of relatively short service and not just problems with the Military - I believe she earned a dangerous driving conviction ?

At the time various newspapers reported ' unnamed army sources ' as complaining that had she not been a high profile beauty queen she would not have been tolerated and would have got the boot far quicker had she been a he . Do folks here think she was allowed get away with a lot ?

FruitLover · 03-07-2010 10:19pm

Fuinseog wrote: »

i just read that some wan has brought out a book about how sexist the army is. she is bitching that soldiers abroad drank alcohol and had sex with prostitutes

Can't see what either of these have to do with gender tbh. She can GTFO.

Avgas wrote: »

Prostitution is NOT legal is Ireland

Not correct. Solicitation is illegal. Accepting money for sex is not.

private2bcadet · 04-07-2010 5:56pm

delancey42 wrote: »

That same Lt. seemed to have an extensive disciplinary record for someone of relatively short service and not just problems with the Military - I believe she earned a dangerous driving conviction ?

At the time various newspapers reported ' unnamed army sources ' as complaining that had she not been a high profile beauty queen she would not have been tolerated and would have got the boot far quicker had she been a he . Do folks here think she was allowed get away with a lot ?

dunno, didnt hear what she had done before this

private2bcadet · 04-07-2010 5:58pm

Poccington wrote: »

You made your post regarding the Lt. in an attempt to correct another poster.

If you're going to correct another poster, it would help if you knew what you were talking about too.

are you just looking for an argument here or whats the story?
no, i did not attempt to correct anyone! dont read too much into comments on the internet, i said what i had read, and even explained that its what i read.

grow up and dont be so hostile

Delancey · 04-07-2010 6:06pm

private2bcadet wrote: »

dunno, didnt hear what she had done before this

Thanks for that profoundly informative post :rolleyes:

private2bcadet · 04-07-2010 6:34pm

delancey42 wrote: »

Thanks for that profoundly informative post :rolleyes:

what you want me to do? make something up like most of the boards.ie users?

Delancey · 04-07-2010 6:39pm

private2bcadet wrote: »

what you want me to do? make something up like most of the boards.ie users?

Eh no - normally if a question is asked and one cannot answer it then one posts nothing - prevents clogging up the forums

private2bcadet · 04-07-2010 6:43pm

delancey42 wrote: »

Eh no - normally if a question is asked and one cannot answer it then one posts nothing - prevents clogging up the forums

fine so

Local-womanizer · 05-07-2010 12:25pm

It is kinda common knowledge the Lt in question left the army,since it was all over the papers when she did leave. A little further reading on the matter would clear that u,I mean it has been discussed here many a times.....

Heard a joke,and it was a RDF women who told me it!

Whats the difference between toast and women?

You can make soldiers out of toast

Poccington · 05-07-2010 5:52pm

delancey42 wrote: »

That same Lt. seemed to have an extensive disciplinary record for someone of relatively short service and not just problems with the Military - I believe she earned a dangerous driving conviction ?

At the time various newspapers reported ' unnamed army sources ' as complaining that had she not been a high profile beauty queen she would not have been tolerated and would have got the boot far quicker had she been a he . Do folks here think she was allowed get away with a lot ?

Yes, she did earn a dangerous driving conviction.

She wasn't allowed get away with anything, she still mucked in like everyone else. The DF and the Unit accomodated her attempts at winning the Miss Ireland crown but to say she'd have been gone earlier if she hadn't been a woman is a bit much. I don't think anyone that worked with her would have any real complaints about her while she was serving, it's her carry on when she left that most people would have issues with. Claiming to have burned her uniform, usual "Girls are picked on" bull**** etc.

SIRREX · 05-07-2010 10:29pm

private2bcadet wrote: »

well, im in the army reserve, and hope to be in the PDF soon... so i can tell you what i know... that woman is an idiot. shes making money off the DF.. just like all the unloyal arseholes who sued the army cos THEY didnt wear their peltors and destroyed their own ears.

As someone who wants to be a member of the PDF, I hope you will accept the unsolicited advice I, a member of the PDF for 24 years, am about to give you. If you do get in you had better tone down the attitude of I know everything about the PDF/RDF. The passage quoted above is a case in point, those who claimed for hearing damage did so in the face of an employer who had been warned about the possible damage to the hearing of their staff. At a time when no hearing protection was being supplied, people were getting bottled for showing some initiative and using civvi ear defenders. Peltors were not introduced until the 90's

private2bcadet · 05-07-2010 10:44pm

SIRREX wrote: »

As someone who wants to be a member of the PDF, I hope you will accept the unsolicited advice I, a member of the PDF for 24 years, am about to give you. If you do get in you had better tone down the attitude of I know everything about the PDF/RDF. The passage quoted above is a case in point, those who claimed for hearing damage did so in the face of an employer who had been warned about the possible damage to the hearing of their staff. At a time when no hearing protection was being supplied, people were getting bottled for showing some initiative and using civvi ear defenders. Peltors were not introduced until the 90's

your probably expecting some snide reply... but thats not what ill be giving.
i do actually appreciate your concern. thank you.
and i will be taking on your advice... im only young, and it appears i still havnt grasped the concept of accepting others opinions, and the concept of not making opinions on things i dont fully know about... again... im sorry. and i feel i should just stop this boards.ie account, cop on to myself, and start a new one in which i behave appropriately.

Poccington · 05-07-2010 10:46pm

private2bcadet wrote: »

your probably expecting some snide reply... but thats not what ill be giving.
i do actually appreciate your concern. thank you.
and i will be taking on your advice... im only young, and it appears i still havnt grasped the concept of accepting others opinions, and the concept of not making opinions on things i dont fully know about... again... im sorry. and i feel i should just stop this boards.ie account, cop on to myself, and start a new one in which i behave appropriately.

No need to start a new one. Everyone makes mistakes, when I first came on here I was getting banned, infracted and all that ****e.

Nobody holds grudges on here plus, it's only the Internet after all.

private2bcadet · 05-07-2010 10:56pm

Poccington wrote: »

No need to start a new one. Everyone makes mistakes, when I first came on here I was getting banned, infracted and all that ****e.

Nobody holds grudges on here plus, it's only the Internet after all.

thanks,
yea i suppose,

ah ill cool it down a bit and relax n all that and take it from there.
thanks

women in the irish army

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