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Documenting Ireland's cycle lanes

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,908 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Bad luck that.

    I think I've regretted every time I've given a cycle lane a chance. Sometimes it's just finding that the cycle lane is impassable a few hundred metres down the road, sometimes it's ending up in a terrible road position at a junction, but experience has taught me to just use the road. You have to be prepared to ignore the motorists who try to harass you into using the cycle lane, but it's still easier than dealing with whatever hare-brained design has been prepared for your delectation by the local authorities.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 200 ✭✭Piercemeear


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    ...experience has taught me to just use the road.

    I think this is going to be my approach in future. What kills me is that the flat:
    1. cut me just short of breaking my personal best distance in one day
    2. got me rained on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    I don't see what a cycle lane has to do with this. The same thing could happen on the road.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,435 ✭✭✭markpb


    BostonB wrote: »
    I don't see what a cycle lane has to do with this. The same thing could happen on the road.

    The design of some cycle lanes in Dublin mean that gather debris from the road and can't be accessed by street sweepers so they're never cleaner.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 200 ✭✭Piercemeear


    BostonB wrote: »
    I don't see what a cycle lane has to do with this. The same thing could happen on the road.

    Ah yes, but it didn't. I'm having a correlation-led emotional reaction. Sorry about that.

    I guess I was overcome by victimhood because I'd earlier cycled many bad and good roads, some barely more than trails, without issue and in the first yard of the first instance of the facility specifically designed for my vehicle I was undone.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,510 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    markpb wrote: »
    The design of some cycle lanes in Dublin mean that gather debris from the road and can't be accessed by street sweepers so they're never cleaner.

    Cycle lanes? Surely you mean road side bottle banks, I honestly have never seen so much glass as I have recently.

    Cycling home one night I might have been forgiven for thinking there was ground frost on the cycle path.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    In my limited experience, debris on cycle paths and roads tend to more about the area then the fact its painted red.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,510 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    BostonB wrote: »
    In my limited experience, debris on cycle paths and roads tend to more about the area then the fact its painted red.

    I said to Raam the other day that the incidents of glass, for me, seem to correlate higher with where there are bus stops. And I mean bottle glass, not windscreen glass or other laminated sorts which smash into nice round granules.

    Since a lot of cycle paths go around, even behind bus stops, this makes them particularly crap. I've gone on paths that are routed behind shelters and run over glass that I have not seen because it was hidden until I was on top of it.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,109 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    3 June 2010 21:03

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    Under the Access to Information on the Environment (AIE) regulations,
    S.I. No. 133 of 2007, I am seeking the legal bases for which the
    Quality Bus Network Project Office has used:

    [a] bus lanes signs of altered designs than what is provided for in
    legislation (ie with the image of a bicycle not included / removed
    from the sign) [examples attached: sign1a.jpg and sign1b.jpg]

    the bicycle / pedestrian shared space sign as used in the UK but
    which is not in Irish traffic legislation [example attached:
    sign2.jpg]

    It is preferred if this information is given in electronic format
    (plain text, word, PDF etc) and send by email. Otherwise in the same
    type of format sent on CD or DVD to below postal address.

    Regards, etc

    And received the following reply today:
    Re: Request for Access of Information under Directive 2003/4/EC
    No. AIE/10/10

    Dear Sir,

    I refer to your request which you have made in accordance with the Access to Information under Directive 2003/4/EC and the Access to Information on the Environment Regulations 2007, relating to signs erected by the Quality Bus Network Office.

    The response from the QBN Project Office is as follows;

    The provision of all road signs and lines is set out and governed by the Road Traffic Act. Approved signs for bus lanes are contained in Chapter 5 of the Traffic Signs Manual - Department of Environment.

    Generally the placing of traffic signs is a statutory function, regulated by the appropriate local authority. Dublin City Council prepares statutory requests for signs within their functional area. QBC proposals including signage are presented to the elected members at Dublin City Council Area Committee Meetings and a period of consultation is undertaken. Signs are provided under Section 37 of the Road Traffic Act as an executive function.

    Generally the QBN designs indicate the statutory sign number to be erected at each location. An example of a Quality Bus Corridor detailed design drawing indicating the recommended signs is attached.

    QBN schemes are audited during the design process and post-construction and errors with signage would typically be identified during this process.

    The 3 signs shown in the pictures do not appear to be compliant with the Traffic Signs Manual.

    However, if the location of these signs is provided, Dublin City Council will investigate and take remedial action.

    118651.jpg118653.jpg118652.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,435 ✭✭✭markpb


    Great work! I've been poking DCC (and my local councillor) about this for ages but never got anywhere.

    The signs I know of are:
    - Swords road outbound between Homefarm and Griffith Avenue
    - Upper Drumcondra Road between Drumcondra station and Hollybank road


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    Compiling a list of where those signs are used could take a while, they seem to be used a fair amount.

    Lets start with the obvious, both ends of Sam Beckett bridge:
    4176737981_1b99c9cfc1.jpg
    4177498604_407919b086.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    That "Please cycle on the footpad" sign on the southbound section is fecking ridiculous. Especially as the bus lane is generally totally unused from what I can see.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Bunnyhopper


    @Monument Good work - well done.

    Anyone able to set up a google-maps thing for this (maybe like potholes.ie)?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    Stark wrote: »
    That "Please cycle on the footpad" sign on the southbound section is fecking ridiculous. Especially as the bus lane is generally totally unused from what I can see.
    Indeed, I actually quite like the bus lanes there though. Since busses rarely use them, they are generally completely empty. They effectively end up as a wider than usual cycle lane with a completely smooth surface.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    They are putting the responsibility back on you to identify the locations. In fairness they need to take responsibility for them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,908 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    They are putting the responsibility back on you to identify the locations. In fairness they need to take responsibility for them.
    Yes, I find their response a little bit unsatisfactory in that sense, but I'm pleasantly surprised that they concede that these signs are not legally compliant.

    As for locations that spring to mind:
    1. Drumcondra Road in front of the Bishop's Palace, both directions
    2. St. John's Road, near Heuston Station (one of the weirder ones, since the "shared facility" is a muddy old footpath barely wide enough for a pedestrian alone)
    3. I think Mobhi Road has wrong signage too

    As just said, they're everywhere in fact.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,109 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Would not go as far as to say these are everywhere, but the signs are placed on large sections of Quality Bus Corridors.

    Of what has not being mentioned, Finglas Road is a stretch of road with these that springs to mind.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,908 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I seem to remember that Alfie Byrne road has the incorrect "shared space" sign instead of the legally compliant Cycle Track sign, but it's not associated with a bus lane with incorrect signage, so maybe not quite the same thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭droidus


    monument wrote: »
    Of what has not being mentioned, Finglas Road is a stretch of road with these that springs to mind.

    Yes. They are on the N2. Multiple signs Northbound stretching from Prospect Way until Finglas village. Southbound from Finglas Place to Prospect Way.

    The Southbound section from Tolka Valley Road to the Old Finglas road has been pretty much impassable for the last few months due to works which involved covering the entire path with pointy gravel..

    The Northbound section just before Tolka Valley Road also had an interesting feature for a while there. Just before and after the turn off there were roadworks on the pavement and on the road which blocked the cycle lanes, accompianed by a cryptic sign which said 'cyclists dismounted'. Not sure exactly what that was supposed to mean... :rolleyes:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Hi

    Down here in the west we are given to understand that the City Council are planning to use the bicycle-less version of the Bus lane sign on a proposed bus lane.

    They say this is a legal requirement as there will be an adjacent cycle track which it will be illegal for cyclists to not use.

    City Council to spend €6 million to slow down City buses
    http://www.galwaycycling.org/city-council-to-spend-e6-million-to-slow-down-city-buses/

    They say they have the endorsement of the NTA for this who they say have described their plans as being "out of the top drawer" and a "template" for the country.

    S


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,908 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    A legal requirement to use a sign that has no legal basis. It's a funny old world.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    Dublin Airport - northbound towards Swords - an unlawfully marked cycle/pedestrian track, barely wide enough for one bike, is marked with the non-statutory 'cycle/pedestrains' sign and is also supposed to be for bikes in both directions. Then in Swords, tracks which have 6-inch kerbs at the point of entry and lead (eventually) nowhere.

    I guess the people who regulate the local authorities are cousins of those who were supposed to regulate the banks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,510 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    Driving through town somewhere, can't remember where exactly, it's the route I cycle back from the N3 sometimes. Anyway, car in front was doing what a lot do when confronted with those partial ramps (you know, not a continuous ramp, just 2 or 3 humps across the road) and swerving to get the wheels around it.

    Problem is the design meant that the swerving was taking him into the cycle lane. There were no cyclists in it, and I'm sure most people look before doing it, but it's just stupid creating a situation like that where someone could be sideswiped through carelessness.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Hi

    I am fairly sure at some point in the not too distant past I came accross a court case where an attempt to prosecute a cyclist for not using a cycle track was dismissed by the judge.


    This possibly involved a cycle facility associated with the Luas.

    Does anyone else recall coming accross this?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,510 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    Need to get a photo, but has anyone seen the cycle lane outside the new petrol station on the N11 southbound, between Booterstown avenue and Mount Merrion avenue?

    Some shocking repair. I was cycling home in the rain earlier and decided to take the bus lane. Glad I did as when I passed the petrol station I saw the cycle path had been dug up and 2 very large steel sheets were covering whatever digging had been going on. They were sitting on raised tarmac too. I've seen off road trails that weren't as challenging.

    Be careful anyway, especially in this rain.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    Similar to above, I should really get a photo of one of the cycle lanes on my way into work.

    While road works were being done, a lump of tarmac 6 inches high ended up on the on road cycle lane, blocking at least 2/3 the width of it. When the works were finished, rather than doing the sensible thing and cleaning up after themselves, the clowns decided in their infinite wisdom to just put a traffic cone on top of the lump and walk away...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    Blowfish wrote: »
    the clowns decided in their infinite wisdom to just put a traffic cone on top of the lump and walk away...
    Bord Gais were digging up the right hand side (outbound) of the coast road near Dollymount. So, they put cones and signs in the cycle track on the left hand side of the road (inbound), even though they were not digging it up....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,995 ✭✭✭✭blorg


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Yes, I find their response a little bit unsatisfactory in that sense, but I'm pleasantly surprised that they concede that these signs are not legally compliant.

    As for locations that spring to mind:
    1. Drumcondra Road in front of the Bishop's Palace, both directions
    2. St. John's Road, near Heuston Station (one of the weirder ones, since the "shared facility" is a muddy old footpath barely wide enough for a pedestrian alone)
    3. I think Mobhi Road has wrong signage too

    As just said, they're everywhere in fact.
    Does their "taking remedial action" suggest though that if presented with a list they will go and remove/change the signs? Could be worth a group effort :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Doctor Bob


    Hi

    I am fairly sure at some point in the not too distant past I came accross a court case where an attempt to prosecute a cyclist for not using a cycle track was dismissed by the judge.


    This possibly involved a cycle facility associated with the Luas.

    Does anyone else recall coming accross this?

    No recollection, I'm afraid, but one comment- are there any cycle facilities associated with the Luas? Cycling is permitted alongside Luas tracks in very few locations, but I don't think any of them have dedicated facilities.

    As for the other comments re the poor state of repair, especially on the N11, the issue for me is the use of third party contractors (Serco etc.) in undertaking repairs, traffic light works etc. In theory, the local authority has to sign off on any works by contractors, and there is even a manual (of sorts) that specifies standards for back-filling, reinstatement, etc., but in practice it rarely happens. What's required is a more robust procedure, including non-payment of fees by the funding authority (Dept of Transport, NTA, etc.) where standards aren't met, and something like a 'three strikes and you're dropped from the list of approved contractors' rule for repeat offenders.

    And anyone who temporarily covers a hole in the ground with a smooth metal plate should be barred for life.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,510 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    Doctor Bob wrote: »
    And anyone who temporarily covers a hole in the ground with a smooth metal plate should be barred for life.

    That's the thing, this looks permanent. It's not totally smooth, it has those raised ridges. But it is the entire width of the cycle lane, so it's not like a drain in that you can go around it, plus it's raised. In short, it would worry me on a road bike in the wet.


This discussion has been closed.
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