Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Securing the Border

24567

Comments

  • #32
    sceptre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,607 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    This thread has a topic. Kindly stick to it. Neither personal attacks nor off-topic flights into fantasy land play well on this section of boards.

    /mod


  • #33
    LostinKildare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 992 ✭✭✭LostinKildare


    The minute Jon Kyl bragged that he "kicked the rest of the people out" of the Oval Office so he could lecture POTUS on responsibility, anyone with an ounce of common sense tuned him out. Sure he did. Did he sit in POTUS's chair and put his feet up on his desk too?

    Then he claims that POTUS, for no reason, like a villain in a movie (HT NY magazine), confided to his political enemy a secret and incredibly damaging strategy that is completely contradicted by his actions -- increasing spending on border control, increasing the number of border control agents and intelligence agents at the border, expanding Border Enforcement Security Task Forces, beginning (for the first time ever) the screening of 100% of southbound rail shipments across the border, increasing seizures of contraband over the border, increasing deportations of criminal aliens, etc.

    And yet, the rightwing noise machine praises Kyl as a man of unbesmirched integrity. Remember back in 2006 when Kyl and Lindsay Graham made up an entire fake conversation about the Detainee Treatment Act and fraudulently cited it in an amicus brief to the US Supreme Court? Their deliberate attempt to mislead the Court was discovered by Hamdan's lawyers, and SCOTUS wasn't impressed; they noted it in Hamdan v Rumsfeld. How did Kyl and Graham survive that? Dunno, Bush DOJ? Good times.
    http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20060705.html


  • #34
    Carcharodon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    Amerika wrote: »
    No, the commercial is real!

    As for the language thing, yes it is sorta a joke (but one of those things where when it actually happens you say... God, I was only joking. Sort of like when Jimmy Carter was elected President). The United States does not have an official language… Yet! But some towns have made Spanish their official language. Who knows, it just might be a matter of time though. And if you live here, you already have to "Press 1 for English" when making a telephone call to government, businesses and the Democratic Party much of the time.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5aUvTUuBOo

    Do you even realize how much of a bigot and racist you sound. California was part of Mexico before Amerika took control so it is only natural to have Spanish as one of the major languages.

    Where as people like you seem to view speaking Spanish and Mexican people below you, other people like myself that now reside in California have taken the opportunity to learn the language and embrace it.


  • #35
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Carcharodon wrote: »
    Do you even realize how much of a bigot and racist you sound. California was part of Mexico before Amerika took control so it is only natural to have Spanish as one of the major languages.

    Where as people like you seem to view speaking Spanish and Mexican people below you, other people like myself that now reside in California have taken the opportunity to learn the language and embrace it.

    But:

    they_took_our_jobs_tshirt-d235648038281095886yhmi_325.jpg


  • #36
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Carcharodon wrote: »
    Do you even realize how much of a bigot and racist you sound. California was part of Mexico before Amerika took control so it is only natural to have Spanish as one of the major languages.

    Where as people like you seem to view speaking Spanish and Mexican people below you, other people like myself that now reside in California have taken the opportunity to learn the language and embrace it.
    Its not that bigoted to oppose an official language.

    English is not the official language of the United States. The United States has no official language.

    Which is why its kind of a challenge to the USA's premise when some towns think they are better than that and choose English/Galiege/Japanese/Spanish as their 'Official' language.


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Overheal wrote: »
    Its not that bigoted to oppose an official language.

    English is not the official language of the United States. The United States has no official language.

    Which is why its kind of a challenge to the USA's premise when some towns think they are better than that and choose English/Galiege/Japanese/Spanish as their 'Official' language.

    Its the sign of an insecure body politic when it rushes to 'criminalise'* the languages of immigrants. The underlying cause beneath all of this bluster is the changing demographics of the US - within the next 50 years whites will no longer be the biggest ethnic group, and Hispanics will have the largest representation in Congress, federal and state government at all levels, the judiciary, the business world (Its already happening in many places) etc etc.

    Its a bit like the hoopla of the 1850s when the nativists lost the rag about white immigrants. Good thing they weren't alive today to see millions of brown people flowing over the border. Thats what it boils down to after all, any other explanation is a platitude.

    *Slight exaggeration.


  • #38
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Its the sign of an insecure body politic when it rushes to 'criminalise'* the languages of immigrants.

    You know that if any town in the US decided to make Protestantism their official religion that there would be an outcry as there is no official religion in the US. As it is, monuments showing the Ten Commandments are causing enough angst. Why should language be any different?

    What is vaguely ironic about the language example is that Mexican immigration law requires the immigrant to learn Spanish.

    NTM


  • #39
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Where are these monuments? I wish to deface them...


  • #40
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    I grew up in a small manufacturing town comprised mostly of immigrants, and first or second generation immigrants, from all over eastern and western Europe, Central and South America, and Scandinavia. We were even nicknamed the Little Melting Pot of America due to the vast diversity. There was great pride in becoming an American by these people. Never was there a demand for others to recognize their native languages in public (only spoken in family households, between friends, and ethnic get-togethers). All immigrants and their children worked hard to learn to read and write English. They came to America and didn’t demand their cultures be recognized. They had pride in their culture and shared it, but never demanded rights for it. And I can't remember anyone looking down on an immigrant during that time as we were all pretty recent citizens. I guess that’s the difference from yesterdays immigrants and today’s immigrants... the GIVERS and the TAKERS.

    And I can attest that the old time immigrants I speak of, hate what is happening today with the invasion from Mexico.


  • #41
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Amerika wrote: »
    I grew up in a small manufacturing town comprised mostly of immigrants, and first or second generation immigrants, from all over eastern and western Europe, Central and South America, and Scandinavia. We were even nicknamed the Little Melting Pot of America due to the vast diversity. There was great pride in becoming an American by these people. Never was there a demand for others to recognize their native languages in public (only spoken in family households, between friends, and ethnic get-togethers). All immigrants and their children worked hard to learn to read and write English. They came to America and didn’t demand their cultures be recognized. They had pride in their culture and shared it, but never demanded rights for it. And I can't remember anyone looking down on an immigrant during that time as we were all pretty recent citizens. I guess that’s the difference from yesterdays immigrants and today’s immigrants... the GIVERS and the TAKERS.

    And I can attest that the old time immigrants I speak of, hate what is happening today with the invasion from Mexico.

    I think you may have an overly rosy view of white immigration to the US. By and large from around 1830 immigrants came to America and formed their own communities. You could travel hundreds of miles in the old American west and hear nothing but Swedish and German. The immigration you grew up with was relatively miniscule - the current immigration is on a scale with the 19th century, when by and large immigrants spoke their own languages in their own city boroughs and towns.


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    No overly rosy view... actual first hand knowledge. We also had numerous “non-whites” from central and south America and some from Asia. Just telling you the way things were (where I grew up)... and how they should be.

    (Just had nasty flashbacks to some of the worst tasting ethnic foods when staying over for dinners at friends houses :eek:)


  • #43
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Amerika wrote: »
    No overly rosy view... actual first hand knowledge. We also had numerous “non-whites” from central and south America and some from Asia. Just telling you the way things were (where I grew up)... and how they should be.

    (Just had nasty flashbacks to some of the worst tasting ethnic foods when staying over for dinners at friends houses :eek:)

    :I find that interesting then, since every wave of immigrants dating back to the very first wave (And up until the 1920s tightening) generally spoke their own languages and maintained the trappings of their own culture. Its only relatively recently (the last 50 years) That the barriers between the various white cultures have fallen down.


  • #44
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Denerick wrote: »
    I think you may have an overly rosy view of white immigration to the US. By and large from around 1830 immigrants came to America and formed their own communities. You could travel hundreds of miles in the old American west and hear nothing but Swedish and German. The immigration you grew up with was relatively miniscule - the current immigration is on a scale with the 19th century, when by and large immigrants spoke their own languages in their own city boroughs and towns.
    But in the 19th century how many city buroughs and towns established their own primary language?

    You still hear a lot of Cantonese in Chinatown NYC but its not an official language.


  • #45
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Overheal wrote: »
    But in the 19th century how many city buroughs and towns established their own primary language?

    You still hear a lot of Cantonese in Chinatown NYC but its not an official language.

    I'm not aware of Mexicans struggling to attain official status for their language. As far as I know the US has no official language. But I don't think its unreasonable for... say a hospital in a majority latino area to use both Spanish and English in the intercom. If its a matter of life and death, I don't understand the problem.

    Again, I'd like to emphasise my believe that the present insecurity mimics the insecurity of the 'know-nothings' of the mid 19th century. If there is one positive aspect of America, its that the majority come round to liking the place, immigrant or not.


  • #46
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Denerick wrote: »
    I'm not aware of Mexicans struggling to attain official status for their language.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5aUvTUuBOo


    disclaimer: The Bald Pundit is an idiot.
    But I don't think its unreasonable for... say a hospital in a majority latino area to use both Spanish and English in the intercom. If its a matter of life and death, I don't understand the problem.
    Thats already the case and of course I do not see a problem with it. Or with Police officers knowing german/spanish/french based upon the public they serve.


  • #47
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Overheal wrote: »
    Thats already the case and of course I do not see a problem with it.

    I do! How can you expect to become united... if you can't even communicate?


  • #48
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Amerika wrote: »
    I do! How can you expect to become united... if you can't even communicate?
    Lets sort that out when someone isnt bleeding out in an ER or having their home broken into.


  • #49
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Overheal wrote: »
    Lets sort that out when someone isnt bleeding out in an ER or having their home broken into.

    Don't get me started. On numerous, and I repeat numerous times, I have had to sit with family members bleeding and in need of stitches, in emergency rooms for hours on end. And do you know why... becasue those without any knowledge of English suddenly know the magic two words (even when it's just a case of the sniffles) that gets them into the emergency room faster than everyone else... "CHEST PAINS"

    Don't beleive me? Just go on any evening into a city emergency room waiting area and observe. You will be amazed and disgusted.


  • #50
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    that...really doesnt have a helluvalot to do with language though. Anybody can go into an emergency room and claim chest pains.


  • #51
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Amerika wrote: »
    Don't get me started. On numerous, and I repeat numerous times, I have had to sit with family members bleeding and in need of stitches, in emergency rooms for hours on end. And do you know why... becasue those without any knowledge of English suddenly know the magic two words (even when it's just a case of the sniffles) that gets them into the emergency room faster than everyone else... "CHEST PAINS"

    Don't beleive me? Just go on any evening into a city emergency room waiting area and observe. You will be amazed and disgusted.

    Emm... Its not too hard to draw attention to somebody in imminent danger of having a heart attack. Just scream hysterically at a nearby nurse and point at your ailing relative shouting 'HEART ATTACK, HEART ATTACK' I'm sure they'll get the message.


  • Advertisement
  • #52
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Denerick wrote: »
    Emm... Its not too hard to draw attention to somebody in imminent danger of having a heart attack. Just scream hysterically at a nearby nurse and point at your ailing relative shouting 'HEART ATTACK, HEART ATTACK' I'm sure they'll get the message.
    "Chest Pains" is far more ambiguous while still requiring the same priority and none of the repurcussion thusly of falsy claiming you're having a heart attack. Try plugging your symptoms into WebMD for example: as soon as you click "Chest Pains" you're pretty much Stopped and told to immediately seek medical attention.


  • #53
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    When Barack Obama's goons show up Monday in Arizona to meet with Governor Brewer, she should simply have them arrested. Arrested for failure of payment from the US government, which owes Arizona $750 million since 2003 alone, to house illegal aliens within the state. And only after the federal government ponies up their obligations, then they can talk about SR 1070.


  • #54
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Where are these monuments? I wish to deface them...

    Saw one on the State Capitol grounds in Austin. Not sure you'd get away with it, though.

    You can find others in courthouses, state capitols and town halls around the country.

    NTM


  • #55
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Amerika wrote: »
    When Barack Obama's goons show up Monday in Arizona to meet with Governor Brewer, she should simply have them arrested. Arrested for failure of payment from the US government, which owes Arizona $750 million since 2003 alone, to house illegal aliens within the state. And only after the federal government ponies up their obligations, then they can talk about SR 1070.
    lol


  • #56
    PopeUrbanII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭PopeUrbanII


    The U.S. has never had a secure border with Mexico, and never will. It's a political issue, more than anything else, due to the rapid growth of the American Hispanic population. As a voting block, its support is indispensable for any serious contender for the U.S. Presidency. Therefore, cracking down on security on the southern border is equivalent to political suicide for any President. It'll never happen. It's almost pointless to argue about it.


  • #57
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Why don't Americans just accept the present system, put the present illegals on a path to citizenship and do more to integrate Mexican communities in the border States? Whatever party takes immigration by the horns will be the dominant political party for the forseeable future. Within 20 years the Hispanic vote will be THE decisive vote in Presidential and congressional elections. Its pretty important as it is.

    But then again, thats what it boils down to. White fear over brown power. I think that its justice at long last - a few thousand white settlers basically annexed Texas and California in the 19th century, usurping land that is rightfully Mexican by historic right. Chickens coming home to roost and all that.


  • #58
    PopeUrbanII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭PopeUrbanII


    Denerick wrote: »
    Why don't Americans just accept the present system, put the present illegals on a path to citizenship and do more to integrate Mexican communities in the border States? Whatever party takes immigration by the horns will be the dominant political party for the forseeable future. Within 20 years the Hispanic vote will be THE decisive vote in Presidential and congressional elections. Its pretty important as it is.

    But then again, thats what it boils down to. White fear over brown power. I think that its justice at long last - a few thousand white settlers basically annexed Texas and California in the 19th century, usurping land that is rightfully Mexican by historic right. Chickens coming home to roost and all that.

    'Path to citizenship'..............? What message do you think that would send to Mexico's poor, who are the vast majority of Mexico's population, BTW? Have you thought this through?


  • #59
    PopeUrbanII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭PopeUrbanII


    "But then again, thats what it boils down to. White fear over brown power. I think that its justice at long last - a few thousand white settlers basically annexed Texas and California in the 19th century, usurping land that is rightfully Mexican by historic right. Chickens coming home to roost and all that."

    Where do you live, Denerick? Let's see how innocent your national history is, okay?


  • #60
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    PopeUrbanII wrote: »
    "But then again, thats what it boils down to. White fear over brown power. I think that its justice at long last - a few thousand white settlers basically annexed Texas and California in the 19th century, usurping land that is rightfully Mexican by historic right. Chickens coming home to roost and all that."

    Where do you live, Denerick? Let's see how innocent your national history is, okay?

    Ireland? As far as I'm aware we never annexed other peoples territory...


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    PopeUrbanII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭PopeUrbanII


    Denerick wrote: »
    Ireland? As far as I'm aware we never annexed other peoples territory...

    You're lucky to be from Ireland. Ireland is one of the only 'almost innocent' nations on Earth. Note that almost all other nations on Earth have committed misdeeds at some point in their history. The U.S. grabbed northern Mexico through war, and minimal reparations. We've committed other wrongs, as well, as most other countries have. Nevertheless, IMHO, that doesn't give Mexico the right to re-invade and conquer the American Southwest.

    Here's one for you, Denerick: Should Britain have invaded Ireland, in response to I.R.A. bombings?


Advertisement