Series 5, Episode 13 - " The Big Bang "

ixoy · 27-06-2010 11:53AM

So the best finale since "The Caves of Androzani"? Yep.

Loved this one. Great performance from all particularly Matt Smith's interactions with Amy as his time-line unwound.

Also liked how it inter-twined with previous episodes, filling in some apparent gaps. It shows how it was planned from the beginning - something that we've not seen before.

As to the escape mechanism - "he escaped because he escaped". Yes, it's a little flimsy but this internal logic is very common in sci-fi. Good old paradoxes. Very few escape it ("Primer" springs to mind) so I don't mind too much because other pieces were done so well (found opening it using the sonic screw-driver worse to be honest).

Also liked the setup and execution of "something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue". How much more satisfying than having a load of people turn the Doctor back from an old troll by shouting his name. Much more personal and meaningful.

The first married couple to travel together? When it's one that I like as much as Amy and Rory Pond, I'm very happy. Great mix.

Pittens · 27-06-2010 12:31PM

On the subject of Deus Ex machina in Sci Fi. if we were demadning about it everything in Sci fi could be seen as Deus Ex Machina, since they use machines and technology not yet invented to fix stuff.

However, in Sci Fi when something is explained beforehand, even in the same episode, and it takes bit of a challenge to pull it off it is not considered Deus Ex machina.

So on a typical star trek: the ship is heading into the time space anomaly, there are aliens onboard and they have lost power: an engineer says that they need to re-route the power to the flux capacitor( I may be mixing genres) and create a shield temporal distortion . They have to get to the engineering deck battling off aliens. That is not Deux Ex Machina as it was explained beforehand.

I think that the Pandoricas ability to keep Amy alive is Deus Ex - and I also think that an extra line or two would have solved that. When the doctor is put in the aliens could have said that he wont need to eat ( does he? I think so judging by the first episode) as it will keep him imprisoned and alive for all time.

After that nothing that Iguana mentioned was Deus Ex. We have known that the Tardis was exploding in all points of time, that the Pandorica can restore life, and the vortex thing can move in time and space. Knowing before hand is not Deus Ex.

Donna with the levers was, however, totally Deus Ex.

Doctor DooM · 27-06-2010 12:37PM

Teh win!

Teh epic epic win!

Teh awesome epic win!

Clever use of time travel!

Rory's evolution as a character!

The seeded plot elements of the series!

Clever use of time travel!

The use of the fez to mock the series own use of catchphrases!

The refusal to explain everything!

River Song becoming likable!

Winnity win win!

I'm marking out like a nerd so hard right now.

pixelburp · 27-06-2010 12:45PM

To be honest, I lef this thread at page 7, come back today & find 2 extra pages of complex discussion on the nature of sci Fi paradoxes. Honestly? And people wonder why the internet is looked down on so much

Why do people try so hard to minutely rationalise time travel plots - if it makes sense on the surface that should be enough. Otherwise you'll just go bananas trying to rationlise it to a tee. Plus it makes you look like a twonk

We're missing the important point of all this people - Fez's are cool

Pittens · 27-06-2010 01:46PM

Why do people try so hard to minutely rationalise time travel plots - if it makes sense on the surface that should be enough. Otherwise you'll just go bananas trying to rationlise it to a tee. Plus it makes you look like a twonk

True, and I think this one made sense on the surface despite the paradox. Like Blink.

anyway Fezs are analyzing time travel is cool.

monkeyfudge · 27-06-2010 01:57PM

I have a féz.... maybe I'll wear it out today without fear of ridicule now that they've been declared officially cool.

doctorwhogirl · 27-06-2010 02:26PM

Im defo buying a fez!!!

Not much to say but I'm really impressed. So good, sufficiently complicated but understandable! Extremely good use of Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey!

So many little moments I loved: The fez, the dead doctor arriving, his chat with amy in the pandorica before he flew off, sending "geronimo" on River's machine, the exchange with River at the end (bless! Get these two married!) his story to Amy as she was asleep in her bed as a little un!
Genius stuff all around!

Can't wait for next season. Standing ovation Moffat and Smith. I hope your critics have been sufficiently silenced.

ixoy · 27-06-2010 03:18PM

How could I forget the best line:

"I wear a fez now. Fezes are cool." I want that on a T-shirt. With a fez.

"Fez wear" on Google returns the line in its first response and the Fez wiki page has appropriately been updated:

The fez (Greek: φέσι fesi, Turkish: fes, plural fezzes or fezes[1]), or Tarboosh (Egyptian Arabic: طربوش), is a felt hat either in the shape of a red truncated cone or in the shape of a short cylinder made of kilim fabric. Both usually have tassels. Fezzes are cool.

Poker Engineer · 27-06-2010 04:32PM

Im not going to argue with all the points that have already been made about this episode being brilliant as im neither a big enough who fan or a big enough nerd

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However i was very disappointed with how easily the doctor got out of the pandorica, i mean all of the doctors greatest enemies built it specifically to imprison him for all of eternity, as the cybermen said his abilities and capacities were carefully extrapolated, and then it can be open in 2 seconds by the doctors sonic screwdriver!!!! The item that he uses week in week out? You're telling me that wasnt taken into account in his abilities and capacities? That either he or one of the companions he always has could use it to free him?

Wibbs · 27-06-2010 08:09PM

doctorwhogirl wrote: »

Im defo buying a fez!!!

Meh, long scarves FTW.

I see fez I think tommy cooper. Cool but not in that way.

Not much to say but I'm really impressed. So good, sufficiently complicated but understandable! Extremely good use of Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey!

I liked it overall. The "issues" I had no..well issue with. It's a sci fi series that has always had a bit of the mad "ah c'mon"isms in it. The rejig of the last few years eased up on that a fair bit. For the most part. Though RTD had a few spasms at times. :eek::)

the exchange with River at the end (bless! Get these two married!

Dunno the river song wan does nada for me. TBH I find her irritating and kinda switch off when she's on. A kinda cardboard cutout "strong woman" tm more aimed at fanbois. As someone operating as his equal the old series romana I think was a better character kickoff point. I know im in the major minority here folks so go easy on me.:D

Can't wait for next season. Standing ovation Moffat and Smith. I hope your critics have been sufficiently silenced.

Moffat Yes I still am a little more meh about smith. He's gotten better though.

My biggest issue with the new rejig from the tennant days on though ecclestone had touches of it, is this "Doctor as a God" notion. His infallibility and his demigod powahs. Tennant got his comeuppance for his hubris towards the end(and though RTD introduced this lonely god stuff, he also balanced it out better IMHO), but this ultimate god like warrior bluster thing is getting old for me I have to say. It was missing from the original series. He could and did make mistakes on a regular basis. Other timelords were about which helped and he was regarded by them as a handy tool at times, but a bit of a bluffer and eejit. There was a weird "alien humanity" to him, which made him more likable as a character IMHO.

nicowa · 27-06-2010 09:47PM

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Teh win!
River Song becoming likable!

Well, sorta anyway. More so than Flesh and Stone anyway.

monkeyfudge wrote: »

I have a féz.... maybe I'll wear it out today without fear of ridicule now that they've been declared officially cool.

Ah... Maybe not....

ixoy wrote: »

How could I forget the best line:

"I wear a fez now. Fezes are cool." I want that on a T-shirt. With a fez.

"Fez wear" on Google returns the line in its first response and the Fez wiki page has appropriately been updated:

So cool!

Banjo Fella · 27-06-2010 09:47PM

We briefly interrupt this thread to bring you...
The 11th Doctor's Happy Fez Dance Variety Funtime!

Daemos · 27-06-2010 09:56PM

Made all the better by the fact that I'm listening to a Christina Aguilera song right now (Ain't No Other Man, perfect choice), so it's like he's dancing to it

K-9 · 27-06-2010 10:42PM

I forgot about Rorys punch, very good. Shows how he developed as a character.

elekid · 27-06-2010 11:15PM

Just to clear up all the confusion, here's a timeline for the episode...

paddyirishman85 wrote:

When the Tardis came back and Rory says "How did we forget the Doctor?" Could anyone else hear him say "I was plastic" to Amy's mother as Amy was climbing over the table?

The full line, said to Amy's mum, is "I was plastic and he was the stripper at my stag party. Long story."

Raedwald · 27-06-2010 11:18PM

Pittens wrote: »

The river story is the weird one in this. We dont even know where she was from. 20th and 21st century Earth apparantly.

I was under the impression she came from the 51st century. At least thats if i remember correctly from her first episodes with Tennant.

Daemos · 27-06-2010 11:20PM

Raedwald wrote: »

I was under the impression she came from the 51st century. At least thats if i remember correctly from her first episodes with Tennant.

That's what I assumed at the time, but didn't she get the Vortex Manipulator back at the end of this episode? Technically that means she could be from anywhen.

Raedwald · 27-06-2010 11:56PM

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

That's what I assumed at the time, but didn't she get the Vortex Manipulator back at the end of this episode? Technically that means she could be from anywhen.

Yeah she did but I think it was stated in her early episodes that she was from the 51st century due to her doctor not being the one who responded to her call on the psychic paper and tennant not realising who she was or the importance of her until she is dying and she says his name.

Cookie33 · 28-06-2010 12:05AM

Nobody mentioned the Doctor's moves at the end of the show in true doctor who style lol

GSPfan · 28-06-2010 02:03AM

I just can't but help post good stuff about this episode. Watching it again now for the 5th or 6th time. Love it. I'm gonna counter any negative comments with the reply of "so what".

"Legs, yes. Bow tie, Cool. I can buy a Fez."

matrim · 28-06-2010 10:25AM

I really enjoyed this episode.

As nobody else has mentioned it (that I saw), the girl who played young Amy was really good and really pulled off playing Amy especially at the scene in the Museum with her Aunt

The Recliner · 28-06-2010 12:12PM

Poker Engineer wrote: »

Im not going to argue with all the points that have already been made about this episode being brilliant as im neither a big enough who fan or a big enough nerd .
However i was very disappointed with how easily the doctor got out of the pandorica, i mean all of the doctors greatest enemies built it specifically to imprison him for all of eternity, as the cybermen said his abilities and capacities were carefully extrapolated, and then it can be open in 2 seconds by the doctors sonic screwdriver!!!! The item that he uses week in week out? You're telling me that wasnt taken into account in his abilities and capacities? That either he or one of the companions he always has could use it to free him?

That is kind of like what Houdini said about escaping from safes, people asked him why it was so easy for him and he replied that Safes are built to keep people out

Well prisons are designed to keep people in so the converse applies, the Dr didn't escape from the prison, he was let out

I really liked the episode, yes there are bits of it that maybe were too convienent but on the whole it was well done, the time travel bits were well executed and the whole series plot was a good thing and they end where they wrapped everything up was touching

The Pandorica opens was the blockbuster episode but this rounded things off well

monkeyfudge · 28-06-2010 12:17PM

I'd imagine they had planned on keeping sentries outside the Pandorica as well though, but didn't factor on being turned to stone.

What was stupid was how they left the sonic screw driver in his pocket when they locked him up. Wouldn't have been too hard to take things like that off him.

doctorwhogirl · 28-06-2010 12:27PM

Meant to say!!! I LOVE Rory! How far he's come! And really like that there's a married couple on board now!

popebenny16 · 28-06-2010 12:35PM

it was such a good, proper episode, that i cannot read this thread, just in case i start to get into a discussion about how the doctor got out of the pandorica to tell rory what to do in the first place. Look Moffat says that he just cheats because the stakes are so great and thats good enough for me!!

I have to say i was buzzing after it. Last year was so nervy, wondering how the new crew would do and realising as the year went on that the end of David Tennant was being put out as the end of Who (never has a production team left before with such back slapping), and now it has never felt better and more secure yet more daring and fun.

monkeyfudge · 28-06-2010 12:57PM

doctorwhogirl wrote: »

Meant to say!!! I LOVE Rory! How far he's come! And really like that there's a married couple on board now!

There really is something very special about his delivery of lines such as 'Yep!'

Shiminay · 28-06-2010 01:05PM

Having watched the series, I have some reservations about what the future holds.

Moffat's writing isn't up to the job. At all.

There wasn't enough depth to any of this series I thought. When I saw that idiot James Corden that the BBC loves so much in The Lodger I thought "Is this what happened? BBC head office wants more creative control and wants the series to go one way and RTD wanted another and here is why we have what we have" which is a real shame.

River Song is a terribly written character and the less I see of her the better as far as I'm concerned. She coulda been really interesting in a Q from TNG sort of way, but I thought she was lame.

A Dalek begging for mercy from her, really? EPIC FAIL.

Even if they turned her into some super villian now, that'd be piss poor and boring. The best thing that character could do is die horribly and have the whole River and Doctor thing never happen. Shame really, Alex Kingston is a good actress.

Rory was on the road to being another Mickey for ages, but they eventually dragged him out of the gutter and that saved him somewhat as far as I'm concerned. He's a likeable character and there's potential to do a lot with him

especially now that he's an Auton.

The 11th Doctor I think is good and I really like the way Mat Smith plays him, gg on that.

I am completely in love with Amy Pond

"You may definitely kiss the bride!"

made me laugh a lot and I think sums her up quite well.

I do look forward to seeing what they do next season or special or whatever they're doing, but I don't think Matt Smith and Karen Gillan can keep carrying the show without some much improved writing.

angelll · 28-06-2010 01:10PM

But rory isn't an auton anymore is he? He's fully human again as time was rewritten...isn't he?

popebenny16 · 28-06-2010 01:21PM

was it? i dont believe it was.

angelll · 28-06-2010 01:24PM

Oh i don't want an auton rory

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Series 5, Episode 13 - " The Big Bang "

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