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DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

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Comments

  • #1742
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    That would be rubbish bitrate to have all at once in one Mux. Esp since RTE insists on having their "digital radio stations" too.


  • #1743
    scath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    @Elmo
    Good to know they are working towards those dates. Why would I configure perfectly good channels. Simple really. Those are analogue channels not digital. If you look at satellite and cables its all about genres. What we have are miss mash childrens and adult evening thrown into one channel. Works fine in analogue land to serve the audience. But you can't in digital land go outside genres like that, its not what digital is about. Digital is not a continuation of analogue though it is planned to be here but done properly it should not be just that, its about organising for the viewer based around what they like to watch. If you're into drama, you watch a drama type channel, likewise with childrens programming.

    A childrens channel makes sense for branding purposes. RTÉ2 is just that, shouldn't be a kids channel. We're talking semantics but its about professionalism and following the standards of other countries in what works. That's just my view on it. Its also at the moment not about helping employ anyone in the industry sadly. The money isn't there, ad revenues are down.Its about survival. When you have a stronger economy that can then be considered.

    A foreign programmes channel would be for RTÉ2. I grant you RTÉ3 doing archive programming. My view is that RTÉ doing foreign programmes isn't really their purpose in the market. That should be TV3's job. I know successful foreign channel for RTÉ means more home dramas produced. But strictly speaking its not its purpose as a psb. That's the commercial sector's. That means one less space. My view is I'd prefer an archive channel and let the foreign programmes be spread around various channels rather than bought up in one channel.

    Not being a sports fan i wouldn't be for a sports channel. The plan was for RTÉ News Now to timeshare. But I think you can have a part-time archive channel, part time Sports channel. I would also be for 24/7. Why not?including OTV. There is plenty of EU TV programming. why not.

    I think its going to happen in October, simply because legislation requires it, and no other reason. Before that was ideally but now its a legal requirements so its different.

    I know what you mean watty about the bitrates. RTÉ HD is dreamland...ain't going to happen til ASO when the economy may be abit better to fund it.

    @sam

    Problem with HD, no money for it. Has to wait also bandwidth would require a 2nd mux. I suspect RTE will save costs by not launching it til 2 or 3 years.

    Going across genres doesn't work in digital. You have to stick with it if you are doing it right otherwise it takes time for the viewer to know what each channel is, is confusing for advertisers looking at demographics and for marketing also. Community Access and education can be rolled into 1.

    I do think the line-up I suggest is the clearest one following the rules of DTT elsewhere.


  • #1744
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,314 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Nordig does not specify MHEG-5 , going with MHP 1.1 instead ( DVB-MHP ) and we could never rely entirely on Nordig for all our requirements.

    While MHEG-5 is not part of the Nordig spec it is added in the relevant operators "Additions and clarifications to the NorDig Unified specification"
    For the Irish DTT will in addition include a mandatory requirement for MHEG5 API as specified in DTG DBook specification (instead of DVB MHP).

    If an Application Programming Interface (API) is included and activated then it shall be DVB MHP v1.1 (or later), see NorDig specification (requirements for the Swedish or Danish DTT network). IRDs for the Irish DTT network shall include MHEG-5 API UK profile version 1.06 with support of HD as specified in DTG D-Book specification.

    Teracom Minimum Receiver Requirements for the DTT Network (Sweden, Denmark and Ireland) v2.0(C) (18.8.2008) - Additions and clarifications to the NorDig Unified specification
    The requirements for IRDs (integrated receiver decoders) in the DTT network in this specification are based on the NorDig Unified receiver specifications Basic Profile at its HD Level (www.nordig.org), and the MHEG-5 version 1.06, UK Profile (www.dtg.org.uk), with some additions and clarifications as included in this document.

    Compared to NorDig Unified 2.0 basic profile specification, the following major additional minimum requirements and clarifications are applicable for all IRDs:
    • MHEG-5 UK Profile, version 1.06 mandatory on all IRDs

    The IRD shall support decoding and displaying MHEG-5 applications, and shall conform to the following standards: ETSI ES 202 184 v1.1.1, UK/Ireland/Boxer Profile v1.06 (as specified in DTG MHEG5 Specification version 1.06, www.dtg.org.uk including corrigenda).

    Minimum Receiver Requirements for Free-to-Air Digital Terrestrial Television for Radio Telefis Éireann v1.0 (Issue 1 19.12.2008) - Additions and clarifications to NorDig Unified Requirements 2.0 (MPEG4 AVC, HDTV, MHEG5 etc)

    Teracom carry out Saorview testing for RTÉNL according to NorDig Unified specifications, as well as MHEG-5 software compliance tests.


  • #1745
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    scath wrote: »
    I know what you mean watty about the bitrates. RTÉ HD is dreamland...ain't going to happen til ASO when the economy may be abit better to fund it.

    I would think that a sly dump of Tv3 and the Radio channels and news off the mux would leave room for a HD sports heavy channel for the summer (only) + SD of course . Once TV3 bleat to Ryan for their slot there will be no HD on mux1 thereafter. Cheeky feckers in TV3 better be happy with the bitrate they have seeing as they nailed their bitrate on 3mbits over on Astra 28e as we noticed last year

    And T2 will have to wait a long time. Our best bet is to all register with Digital Spy and diss any T2 gear that will not work properly as T1 in Ireland ....if it comes from a major manufacturer that is.


  • #1746
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    1. RTE 1
    2. RTE 2
    3. TV3
    4. TG4
    5. OTV/RTE News Now
    6. RTE 3 (Begins at 7pm)
    7. 3E
    8. The Den (Closes at 7pm)
    9. Community Access TV/ Education TV (Closes at 3pm)
    10. IFB TV (Begins at 3pm)

    Note 6 and 8 time share, 9 and 10 timeshare in a similar manner to CBBC and BBC 3.


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  • #1747
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Elmo wrote: »
    1. RTE 1
    2. RTE 2
    3. TV3
    4. TG4
    5. OTV/RTE News Now
    6. The Den (Closes at 7pm), RTE 3 (Begins at 7pm)
    7. Community Access TV/ Education TV (Closes at 3pm) IFB TV (Begins at 3pm)

    Fixed


  • #1748
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    Fixed

    Can you not spread out channels across channel numbers for Marketing/branding purposes?


  • #1749
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,518 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Surely OTV and the Film Ch are to be on at the same time. The TDs do not get up early and talk for Ireland well into the night. It would make more sense if the Children's Channel alternated with OTV. No adults will watch either.:D


  • #1750
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Wikipedia of course knows the answer (its not necessarily right though!)

    These are the proposed TV channels for Saorview which are offered from
    RTÉ NL or the BAI[6].
    • RTÉ One
    • RTÉ Two -Reconfiguration as an archive and foreign programming channel with sports.
    • RTÉ News Now
    • CúlaDen - Bilingual children's Channel consisting of current The Den - Timeshares with RTÉ Two from 6am to 5.30pm Monday to Friday and from 7am to 1pm Saturday, Two Tube - Timeshares with RTÉ Two from 5.30pm to 7pm (Monday to Friday) and Cúla 4 - Timeshares with TG4 from 7am to 7pm
    • TV3
    • 3e
    • TG4 - reconfigured to replace kids programming moved to childrens channel with archive and other programmming.
    • Irish Film Channel timeshared with DCTV and Cork CTV.
    • Houses of the Oireachtas Channel
    • 5TV - A channel consisting of City Channels content and Channel South currently on UPC Ireland.
    • RTÉ HD (proposed) [7] post 2012
    Basic Subscription (ye what ?)


  • #1751
    slegs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,067 ✭✭✭slegs


    Elmo wrote: »
    Can you not spread out channels across channel numbers for Marketing/branding purposes?

    Poor content in a channel of its own wont increase its viewership numbers


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  • #1752
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Surely OTV and the Film Ch are to be on at the same time. The TDs do not get up early and talk for Ireland well into the night. It would make more sense if the Children's Channel alternated with OTV. No adults will watch either.:D

    OTV will only be on air during live debates. Why would you want highlights when you get that on TV News etc. Live Debates generally don't take place at night.


  • #1753
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    It would make more sense if the Children's Channel alternated with OTV. No adults will watch either.:D

    I'd watch Sportacus & CO over Biffo & CO any day of the week, unfortunatly Biffo & CO live debates would only be on at times that would affect my Sportacus viewing :)

    Non-related to the channel debate, isn't it time the title of this thread was changed again ? " DTT commercial Multiplexes " doesn't seem appropriate any more


  • #1754
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I vote that the thread locked and an new thread
    "DTT channels & spec"


  • #1755
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    I vote that the thread locked and an new thread
    "DTT channels & spec"

    And renamed a "Timeline of Commercial DTT 2008 to 2010, RIP".


  • #1756
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,538 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    STB wrote: »
    Wikipedia of course knows the answer (its not necessarily right though!)

    These are the proposed TV channels for Saorview which are offered from
    RTÉ NL or the BAI[6].
    • RTÉ One
    • RTÉ Two -Reconfiguration as an archive and foreign programming channel with sports.
    • RTÉ News Now
    • CúlaDen - Bilingual children's Channel consisting of current The Den - Timeshares with RTÉ Two from 6am to 5.30pm Monday to Friday and from 7am to 1pm Saturday, Two Tube - Timeshares with RTÉ Two from 5.30pm to 7pm (Monday to Friday) and Cúla 4 - Timeshares with TG4 from 7am to 7pm
    • TV3
    • 3e
    • TG4 - reconfigured to replace kids programming moved to childrens channel with archive and other programmming.
    • Irish Film Channel timeshared with DCTV and Cork CTV.
    • Houses of the Oireachtas Channel
    • 5TV - A channel consisting of City Channels content and Channel South currently on UPC Ireland.
    • RTÉ HD (proposed) [7] post 2012
    Basic Subscription (ye what ?)

    I would tend to ignore Wikipedia on this point - people created articles for the three tenders making it look like they had actually got the contract and were about to commence broadcasting, for goodness sake! If people created articles for every entity/consortium ever to tender for a public service contract everywhere in the world Wikipedia would be full of little else. Even taking ITV alone how many entities applied for ITV licences over the forty odd years from 1954 to 1991? Over fifty/sixty I'd imagine - imagine if there were articles on them all! Boxer TV Ireland is a long article for a company that only ever existed on paper and did not even have one staff member appointed.

    Anyway rant over. To take the proposal to lock the thread, I'm minded to do it but first I want to hear if there's anyone who wants the thread to remain open. Will revisit this time tommorow.


  • #1757
    scath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    Calls for a new thread on DTT Channel Line-up so that this thread gets back to the topic. Agreed.


  • #1758
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,314 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    icdg wrote: »
    Boxer TV Ireland is a long article for a company that only ever existed on paper and did not even have one staff member appointed.

    Wasn't Boxer the only one of the three consortia to incorporate. Initially as Silver Window Limited in Apr 2008 later changing its name to Boxer DTT (Company No. 456079), voluntarily struck off May this year.

    It had four directors, a Company Secretary and Managing Director before they submitted their application to the BCI.


  • #1759
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    I hear what your saying ICDG....

    But that is a public Mux EPG (saorview)! Not commercial. Of course I couldnt get to the source of the edits with wikiscanner, but.....!

    Whats more interesting is that BBC1 and 2 are under subcription under the public mux - might not necessarily be subbed, whose to know . Infact it may not be a million miles off the final EPG. Skip the Oireachtas channel and the Film channel (as the money aint there) and its possible. 3e on the public mux ? Doubt it, but everything is possible though in the current climate.

    As Watty says maybe time for a nw thread. I actually thought thats were the thread had gone anyway... past all the will they wont they to what now. :)


  • #1760
    sesswhat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭sesswhat


    Where does it all leave the commercial mux allocations now?

    Will they remain ring-fenced for possible commercial use, however unlikely, until someone officially declares otherwise?


  • #1761
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    No further ones will be installed. RTENL is quite free to use the initial installation parts for the PSB rollout, where possible, which is sensible, as they own them. No-one else has contributed a brass farthing.

    The spectrum allocation is of course "ring fenced" till either there is a Commercial operator or the Government decides on some other plans.

    A commercial operator was ALWAYS going to have to pay for Commerical DTT hardware in some fashion. The Issue with Onevision, was they wanted to only pay as they proceeded to get customers with no or little bond up front to cover RTENL's risk in buying the gear (which would be maybe x5 or more than RTENL has already spent for a full roll out). RTENL didn't want to be left carring the cost of full National rollout and then Onevision going bust or defaulting on payments (quite likely).

    Independent Arbitrator ruled that RTENL's demand for a €20M bond was reasonable.


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  • #1762
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    I would also assume that the other MUXs will be still ring fenced as BAI MUXs.


  • #1763
    sesswhat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭sesswhat


    watty wrote: »
    RTENL is quite free to use the initial installation parts for the PSB rollout, where possible, which is sensible, as they own them. No-one else has contributed a brass farthing.

    On the subject of hardware, presumably the parts are expensive enough to make it worth dismantling 'spare' equipment on the main sites to install elsewhere?

    Are they cutting back on dtt equipment currently being installed on infill transmitters, to provide for only one or two muxes instead of four, while still putting the infrastructure in place to allow them to add more later?


  • #1764
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    They will only be installing PSB on addition sites.

    It would be irresponsible to spend any more on Commercial Mux gear.


  • #1765
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,538 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Okay we'll close for now. Expect "DTT Commerical Multiplexes - Part II" whenever the BAI decides to re-run the competition...if that ever happens...


This discussion has been closed.
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