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What happened to the Pub??
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Dublin, Belfast, Galway, Cork, Templemore, Dungarvan, Kenmare, Dingle and Waringstown all have their own local beers. Carlow has a large brewery though it is impossible to get a pint of their beer in a Carlow pub. We're not like Germany or Belgium, true. But we're getting there.
Fair enough, i was actually unaware there was even that amount of Irish beers on offer. I just presumed they didn't exist as i had never seen or heard of them and they don't show up on my suppliers list of drinks. I'll look into them, any suggestions of whats best?
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abitofacomedian wrote: »Just to take issue with one thing you said Gaunty, not one place in this thread did people claim they wanted a wider variety of foreign beers on tap. the only brands mentioned from from the Carlow brewery and Galway hooker, in fact the only foreign brands mentioned were Smithwicks and Heineken. People wanted more selection on tap, it is depressing when pretty much every pub has the same beers and none of them are the one you want.
I stand corrected, my apologies, i didn't read the brand names clearly enough. I must have got confused cos i love pints of Erdinger so that was in my head when i was writing that! Shame i can't get it on draught in many places and i don't have the room for it in my own pub.
I also agree that the price of drinks in off licenses and supermarkets has a majorly damaging effect on my type of pub. However we just can't compete there, different types of overheads and there was a change in the law in 2006 i think (I'll have to look it up) which basically allows the supermarkets to sell their drink below or at cost price. They make up the difference on people spotting and buying other things once they are in the supermarket buying the drink.
But keep the ideas and opinions coming, i'm reading them with great interest and im sure ardinn is also. I care what the customer thinks and i'd like to run a more successful Irish pub that isn't the usual cookie cutter disco bar.0 -
I put together a list of every beer I could think of, made and available in Ireland last year. There are 105 beers on it.Fair enough, i was actually unaware there was even that amount of Irish beers on offer.
Most Irish breweries sell direct. The Porterhouse distribute through their sort-of subsidiary Grand Cru beers.they don't show up on my suppliers list of drinks.
Well, something local is always good, but I've no idea where you are. Galway Hooker is well worth a punt, I'd say. It's a good one for shutting up the we-want-something-different brigade.I'll look into them, any suggestions of whats best?0 -
i would say the cost difference has a lot to do with it.
in my local they have all the usual largers and beers, they also sell cans of bulmers over the counter at €3.80 a can :eek: the same price as a pint of larger
guinness and beer are €3.50, small town east mayo. 0 -
Of course we show the horse racing during the day because there is a bookies across the road and a lot of our regulars love having small bets and enjoyment with their drinks but we find that it helps improve the atmosphere as people are talking about their fancies for each race and getting excited and buying everyone drink when they have a big winner.
We rely on our pool table, card games such as poker or knockout 45 and a good regular base for our atmosphere along with bar staff that will join in the craic and know everyones names and favourite drinks even if that person only comes in a handful of times a year. We also offer beamish which has become our biggest seller ahead of Guiness as we sell it for €3.10 (strangely only a handful of other pubs in town have caught on to the fact people prefer it)
This sounds like a proper pub, not one of those vile gin-palaces we are polluting the cities with nowadays.The sickening thing is we are now after drawing up plans to remodel the pub and try to modernise more to be like the other pubs to get more business. It breaks my heart the thoughts that my beloved pub with a fine friendly atmosphere has to be replaced by a soulless money grabbing business but it just seems to be the type of place that people want.
Heartbreaking.
People want the gin palaces and dismiss the other type of pub as something for "old people". 0 -
Gaunty, slap an "Over 30's only" sign on your pub, that'll sort it out. The older folks will be glad that they know this will be a welcoming pub, the young folk will want something they can't get and try to chance their luck
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You haven't mentioned the most important part of the reason why the price of drink is so expensive in this country - excise tax. It is fairly simple, pubs will struggle until :
a) the economy gets back to the level it was 4 years ago (0% chance of happening
or
b) the price of drink, inclusive of tax, falls significantly ( slightly more chance of happening than a but still unlikely).
Unfortunately you are in an industry that has a very bleak outlook for the future. You will need to come up with some creative ideas to get customers in the door that will give you a competitive advantage over rival pubs in your area - otherwise the punters will stay at home with their cheap cans.
Yes I did!I agree, but why should the price of cans go up? Im not trying to shoot myself in the foot but if you want to stay at home and drink thats up to you and you should'nt be penalised for it. Look at the 0.5% decrease in the recent budget that amounted to 15c in the price of a pint, Speaks volumes on the current tax situation.
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IrishWhiskeyCha wrote: »
and the vintners association should be lobbying against the drinks industry as hard as they lobby the gov. The price of Guinness is quite shocking in comparison to Beamish ... C&C is a disgrace with their pricing for Bulmers and you hear them complain about falling sales.
The Vintners are lobbying against the drinks industry - VERY SUCCESSFULLY - And to prove it I will say that the cost of diageo products in England has risen 27% over the last 2 years an 0% in this country SOLELY based on the work done by the VFI.
Bulmers was, if you remember, a very cheap drink about 3 years ago, do you not remember the government targeting bulmers alone for increased vat - Bulmers pint bottles were cheaper than Large Guinneess/smithwicks/Mac and now they are over a € more.
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Over the course of this discussion I have heard about 100 different brands being mentioned, It would be absolute lunacy to think publicans can offer all these drinks and if we tried to offer at least 10 or 15 someone would come in and ask for the one you dont have.
My recommendation here to everyone would be, If you like a drink and would be more tempted to enter a premises if they stocked it, ask!!! Ask the person in charge to get it in! He is not (in these times) going to say no!! Guys for alot of the issues here I have said this - speak to your publican and im sure things you like in a pub that have gone can be brought back and drinks you would like to see on the shelves can be gotten. Drivers can be looked after and minerals be offered to them at reduced prices.
I am going to answer every post in this thread, But it's really busy! Must be a relevant issue with everyone. And im up the walls so give me time!
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IrishWhiskeyCha wrote: »Fair play and great reply s. Can I ask a question and no need to say how much you pay but can a pub get a box of miller as cheap as say Dunnes sell it or do you have to pay a higher premium to your supplier.
I am unable to buy miller at the price dunnes sell it at - God know how much they are paying for it!IrishWhiskeyCha wrote: »
But remember you a coming off 2 very different markets. The UK market was always been very competitive due to the multitude of breweries and comes from a very cheap price point. The Irish market has virtually 0 competition (in relation to the pint price) as the price of the pint is pretty standard and the price point was already exorbitant. The olny brewery offering any amount of decent pricing is Beamish. You are literally talking double the price at one stage so obviously there was room in the UK market to move but there is not in the Irish market.
Incorrect in relation to diageo products - the cost and increased costs are usually in line, Not the same price but increases in % terms would be on par. The point I was making was the comparison between the 2 and the vintners stopping these increases going ahead in Ireland.IrishWhiskeyCha wrote: »Bottled Bulmers over the last 10 years has been the dearest drink in a pub. I don't drink it but I can remember when it was by far the cheapest pint and it was only available in a pint or half pint bottle. Basically the Pint bottle fell foul of that nasty corporate drinks industry new buzz word ... "premiumisation". Basically making a drink look good and whacking a higher margin on it.
All these issues may well be out of the Publicans control but as long as you look after you customer then hopefully they will respond. Sounds like you are really trying you best so good luck with it.
Maybe not 3 years but probably 5 - definately not 10 - After bulmers first massively successful year the government increased the duty on it. I remember it was a big point of discussion at the time. And it was very cheap compared to other brands.
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- Pints are great, yes, but if you can't have a large range on tap, you can definitely have a large bottle range!
- Provide a clear menu including prices for pints/halfs, bottles, wine, shots, mixers and dashes
- Weekly special
- Food. Whether it be small tapas, or proper cooked meals, at least try something.
- Proper wine selection, by large bottle and glass. Choose quality over "range", and nothing thrown at you by Diagio or whomever!
- Turn off the TV except for major sporting event. Manchester united v Derby in the league is not a major sporting event.
- Charge an appropriate price, fine. But the level of service, cleanliness and toilets in [articular must match this price point!
For me the most important thing when choosing a pub is #1 - the choice of beer available. On tap is better but in bottle is a very acceptable alternative providing the glass is correct (read also NOT WARM!).
1. Bottles of craft beer have about 6 months on them before they expire, You would be suprised at how long it takes to sell 24 bottles of a new product into a local community, Making a menu with even 5 new bottles of beer would results in expired bottles, For smaller pubs anyway. But it is an option im probably going to try.
2. A price list is legally required on display at the entrance to every Pub.
3. Good Idea.
4. Most pubs now have to serve some sort of food. I think other than younger peoples trendy Bars and clubs most (or alot anyway) allready do!
5. Wine is good!
6. It is for Man Utd fans. And we would get between 10 - 20 regulars who enjoy watching football, who dont have sky sports, and who come out solely to watch the game. And im not turning off the telly when my Sky package costs me over €5.500.00 A year. (YES YOU DID HEAR THAT RIGHT)
7. Very true.
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What about a slow phasing in of different bottled beers to see which catches on? Really play off the 'Beer of The Week' type thing. Kind of what Guinness and the like do when they try new brews and test them on the market for a period of time at set time periods for each different variation.
maybe have a recommendation box for locals to drop in a beer they want.
As I said I will probably do this - Phasing them in is the way to go - You should ask your publican to try this if they dont all-ready.
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Anson Vast Superhuman wrote: »I love the way the publicans are crying poverty and hardship - every single publican I know is absolutely f*cking loaded.
Example: guy in a nearby village recently bought his 18 year old son TWO flash cars - coming to a total of around €20K. He then rears his head on the radio claiming he's facing hard times and the rec***sion has affected his business badly.
What a complete load of toss.
You must not know too many publicans. Regardless of what he bought his son from what money he had I doubt that he made it in the pub game, I would hazard a guess that this is not his only business. And no-one is crying poverty, just expressing that the industry is down and nearly 150,000 poeple depend on it for a living and that livelyhoods and jobs are being decimated all over the country. That figure was 210,000 3 years ago.
So on your other point you say that the recession is a load of toss, his business has not suffered badly, Implying it may have actually improved and the guy's pub is doing really well??
Thanks for the informed opinion.
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Have you tried, instead of selling bottles, sell it by the glass? And by this, I mean "splash"? It'd be a shower head type tap with buttons on it for coke/7up/fanta/etc. Local pub had it when I was working there, and still has it. The price is a LOT less, and as the canisters are usually stored with the kegs in a chilled room, it's cold out of the tap.
Soft drinks are too expensive, no arguments there. But on Many occasions people have come to me and said that a particular person is driving, can we sort him out, and I usually give 1 + 1 free. Im not making on the coke/7up whatever but there is people about having a pints and Im glad of the business, Has anyone ever tried doing this or am I just a soft touch??
In said pub that I worked in, people were given hours, and thus stayed there longer. Most of the young bar staff who stayed for a few years started off as lounge staff, and became bar staff after a year or so, by which time they have gotten trained on a part time basis during the quite periods on how to be bar staff. Get local people who lived locally from birth, or a young age. These are more likely to stay local longer, and should they goto college, will most likely do so locally, and continue to work at your pub.E) + F) I think the problems with most staff is that they are not in a career job! Most bar staff are young students etc or working in between jobs for extra pocket money, Although proper training has a lot to do with it you will probably not see a higher staff turnover figure in the economy than pubs / hotels, and they don't care because they are not staying anyway! My guess is the best people you will find behind the bars are owners/career barmen and they are hard to find, However, a well run establishment will have even those who are not career catering people trained very well and to standard.
I have to call bullsh|t on this. A good beer garden is table and chairs out the back of the pub. Sure, you can get epic beer gardens, but mostly they were gardens there before the smoking ban came in, and with a few tables became few good. Some pubs in Carlow have no such garden, and that's neither here nor there, but they did good for a number of years.G) Well again nothing is cheap, a good beer garden or even nice deck area is going to cost a couple of grand to develop. The money just is not there for most at the minute.
Now, however, it's not enough, so maybe you should look into seeing if you can make an unused backroom that has only a sheet of tar over the top into a smoking room? I think the Foundry in Carlow (or whatever it's called these days) did something along those lines with it's smoking room. Sure, it's not great, but it does the job.
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Sometimes the only pub with a decent pint has sh|te music. I know a few pubs who do well as they have a rep for good Guinness. It seems most pubs that do good Guinness do other pints well.O.k. but why would you go into a pub that you dont like?? (Loud Music, too hot) Go to one that suits you, (this is open for questioning as people go out to meet people and most people are in these places but I cant try and explain everything).
This is one reason, albeit a small one. The main reason I'd say is ensuring the cans are bought in your pub, and not from the offie nearby (or your own). This, and recycling them (as opposed to washing the pint glasses).I was also wondering about the cans issue - I personally dont have an issue with it, but some older people see it as a sign of a poor establishment (rough etc)0 -
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Have you tried, instead of selling bottles, sell it by the glass? And by this, I mean "splash"? It'd be a shower head type tap with buttons on it for coke/7up/fanta/etc. Local pub had it when I was working there, and still has it. The price is a LOT less, and as the canisters are usually stored with the kegs in a chilled room, it's cold out of the tap.
In said pub that I worked in, people were given hours, and thus stayed there longer. Most of the young bar staff who stayed for a few years started off as lounge staff, and became bar staff after a year or so, by which time they have gotten trained on a part time basis during the quite periods on how to be bar staff. Get local people who lived locally from birth, or a young age. These are more likely to stay local longer, and should they goto college, will most likely do so locally, and continue to work at your pub.
I have to call bullsh|t on this. A good beer garden is table and chairs out the back of the pub. Sure, you can get epic beer gardens, but mostly they were gardens there before the smoking ban came in, and with a few tables became few good. Some pubs in Carlow have no such garden, and that's neither here nor there, but they did good for a number of years.
Now, however, it's not enough, so maybe you should look into seeing if you can make an unused backroom that has only a sheet of tar over the top into a smoking room? I think the Foundry in Carlow (or whatever it's called these days) did something along those lines with it's smoking room. Sure, it's not great, but it does the job.
Last week I had a meeting with 2 coca cola reps about the splash mechanism, They advised against it as, a) It's not much cheaper, b)it goes off very quickly and you would need to be selling very large quantities to justify it.
I would like to know how much less you know it was, as I was told directly from the horses mouth that it was not cheaper and this was my main reason for asking about it.
You will always find a few good staff that do stay but I was basing my statements on my experiences. I have worked in numerous hotels / pubs / clubs / and now own my own and this is what my experience tells me.
The foundry's smoking room cost over €20.000.00 - I worked there when it was being built. And the new cedar square has cost more so maybe you have not been there in a while but you should go as they are both worth seeing.
I was replying to a comment made by someone saying that they dont want to smoke on the street corner, A few tables out the back is fine but in order to do a proper comfortable job that complies with regulations and providess the facilities needed and shelter, because we do not have an attractive climate, It's going to cost whatever way you look at it.
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Anson Vast Superhuman wrote: »I know 6. Might not be all that many but I'm out in the sticks.
This guy's only business is his pub; I know that because I know the son well.
No-one is crying poverty? Why is it that I am constantly subject to an earful, when listening to radio talkshows, about how publicans are suffering badly and they need to raise prices further?
I didn't say anything about the recession.Anson Vast Superhuman wrote: »He then rears his head on the radio claiming he's facing hard times and the rec***sion has affected his business badly.
I was talking about his milking of that word as an excuse so he can make even more money. I'm pretty damn certain he's doing really well, he himself bought a brand spanking new Merc. just last year. Now I don't know how you'd interpret that, but I'd take that as a sign that someone is doing well. As are all the publicans I know.
You're very welcome.
Well, Good for them then - I must find out where you live and open up shop there, seems brilliant.
Also can you tell me when you last heard a publican say they need to raise prices, And if he is a member of the VFI and has said this on the radio please also let me know. Publican across the country are screaming for the need to reduce prices, with the help of suppliers and the government!! Not raise them.
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Well, Good for them then - I must find out where you live and open up shop there, seems brilliant.
Also can you tell me when you last heard a publican say they need to raise prices, And if he is a member of the VFI and has said this on the radio please also let me know. Publican across the country are screaming for the need to reduce prices, with the help of suppliers and the government!! Not raise them.
All I've ever heard out of them is "we need to raise prices for this that and the other reason."
County Kerry, you're more than welcome to come down
Regarding this:Anson Vast Superhuman wrote: »He then rears his head on the radio claiming he's facing hard times and the rec***sion has affected his business badly.
What a complete load of toss.Anson Vast Superhuman wrote: »
I didn't say anything about the recession. I was talking about his milking of that word as an excuse so he can make even more money. I'm pretty damn certain he's doing really well, he himself bought a brand spanking new Merc. just last year. Now I don't know how you'd interpret that, but I'd take that as a sign that someone is doing well. As are all the publicans I know.
This post by you:
Says that I'm calling the recession a load of toss. I'm not, I didn't comment on the recession. When I said "what a load of toss" I was referring to his whinging about it even though he is clearly rolling in cash, not the recession.So on your other point you say that the recession is a load of toss, his business has not suffered badly, Implying it may have actually improved and the guy's pub is doing really well??
I didn't hear him say anything about the VFI however I wasn't paying too much attention; I just searched for him there on the site and he's not there so I would assume that means he's not a member.
EDIT: I'd just like to say that I'm not trying to be hostile here; maybe I just know a particularly lucky bunch of pub owners and most publicans ARE having hard times. However from my experiences so far with them I'd take everything publicans say with regards to money/the recession with a pinch of salt.0
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