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What happened to the Pub??

ardinn

For those of you who have left the pub scene and taken up home-drinking, what were your reasons?

What would you like to see happen in your local that would get you out again?

What do you think the local means in your area / or should mean?

Do you believe people have been forced into their homes by drink-drive laws / the smoking ban?

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Heroditas

Gaunty wrote: »

Of course we show the horse racing during the day because there is a bookies across the road and a lot of our regulars love having small bets and enjoyment with their drinks but we find that it helps improve the atmosphere as people are talking about their fancies for each race and getting excited and buying everyone drink when they have a big winner.

We rely on our pool table, card games such as poker or knockout 45 and a good regular base for our atmosphere along with bar staff that will join in the craic and know everyones names and favourite drinks even if that person only comes in a handful of times a year. We also offer beamish which has become our biggest seller ahead of Guiness as we sell it for €3.10 (strangely only a handful of other pubs in town have caught on to the fact people prefer it)

This sounds like a proper pub, not one of those vile gin-palaces we are polluting the cities with nowadays.

Gaunty wrote: »

The sickening thing is we are now after drawing up plans to remodel the pub and try to modernise more to be like the other pubs to get more business. It breaks my heart the thoughts that my beloved pub with a fine friendly atmosphere has to be replaced by a soulless money grabbing business but it just seems to be the type of place that people want.

Heartbreaking.
People want the gin palaces and dismiss the other type of pub as something for "old people".

mayo.mick

i would say the cost difference has a lot to do with it.
in my local they have all the usual largers and beers, they also sell cans of bulmers over the counter at €3.80 a can :eek: the same price as a pint of larger

guinness and beer are €3.50, small town east mayo.

BeerNut

Gaunty wrote: »

Fair enough, i was actually unaware there was even that amount of Irish beers on offer.

I put together a list of every beer I could think of, made and available in Ireland last year. There are 105 beers on it.

Gaunty wrote: »

they don't show up on my suppliers list of drinks.

Most Irish breweries sell direct. The Porterhouse distribute through their sort-of subsidiary Grand Cru beers.

Gaunty wrote: »

I'll look into them, any suggestions of whats best?

Well, something local is always good, but I've no idea where you are. Galway Hooker is well worth a punt, I'd say. It's a good one for shutting up the we-want-something-different brigade.

Gaunty

abitofacomedian wrote: »

Just to take issue with one thing you said Gaunty, not one place in this thread did people claim they wanted a wider variety of foreign beers on tap. the only brands mentioned from from the Carlow brewery and Galway hooker, in fact the only foreign brands mentioned were Smithwicks and Heineken. People wanted more selection on tap, it is depressing when pretty much every pub has the same beers and none of them are the one you want.

I stand corrected, my apologies, i didn't read the brand names clearly enough.

I must have got confused cos i love pints of Erdinger so that was in my head when i was writing that! Shame i can't get it on draught in many places and i don't have the room for it in my own pub.

I also agree that the price of drinks in off licenses and supermarkets has a majorly damaging effect on my type of pub. However we just can't compete there, different types of overheads and there was a change in the law in 2006 i think (I'll have to look it up) which basically allows the supermarkets to sell their drink below or at cost price. They make up the difference on people spotting and buying other things once they are in the supermarket buying the drink.

But keep the ideas and opinions coming, i'm reading them with great interest and im sure ardinn is also. I care what the customer thinks and i'd like to run a more successful Irish pub that isn't the usual cookie cutter disco bar.

TomD101

ardinn wrote: »

Look, Pub prices are not there to try and bankrupt you while turning publicans into millionares! They are a generally a fair reflection on the costs incurred + a profit margin (which every business needs) in order to operate. We have 2 pubs and both are struggling. overheads eat any money making ability the business needs to develop and continue.

But that said your point is that the cost of €4.00 (average) per pint is excessive?

Compared to many other leisure activities I strongly believe it is one of the best value.

Cinema Ticket for 2 - €20 + Snacks could come close to €50 (yes it does, I often go and usually in the €45 range for me and the missus)

Bowling for 2 for one Hour - €40

Etc Etc

Does anyone agree after having a good think about it that maybe the price is not the issue.

Im just trying to look at other activities and loosen peoples thinking a bit, not shying away from the fact that most answers will be the price.

You haven't mentioned the most important part of the reason why the price of drink is so expensive in this country - excise tax. It is fairly simple, pubs will struggle until :

a) the economy gets back to the level it was 4 years ago (0% chance of happening

or

b) the price of drink, inclusive of tax, falls significantly ( slightly more chance of happening than a but still unlikely).

Unfortunately you are in an industry that has a very bleak outlook for the future. You will need to come up with some creative ideas to get customers in the door that will give you a competitive advantage over rival pubs in your area - otherwise the punters will stay at home with their cheap cans.

Brian CivilEng

Gaunty wrote: »

There are reasons the majority of pubs do not have a huge selection of foreign beers on tap.

Just to take issue with one thing you said Gaunty, not one place in this thread did people claim they wanted a wider variety of foreign beers on tap. the only brands mentioned from from the Carlow brewery and Galway hooker, in fact the only foreign brands mentioned were Smithwicks and Heineken. People wanted more selection on tap, it is depressing when pretty much every pub has the same beers and none of them are the one you want.

I'm not in the business so I am not qualified to make this remark it's just an opinion I am throwing out on the internet so feel free to shoot me down. But I think it sounds like your main competition is the off license, not the other pubs on the street. People who would like your pub are the type of people who are currently sitting at home drinking because they think all pubs are like the other five on the street. If you do renovate and become like the other pubs I'm sure that you will succeed in the short term, you can tempt folks away from the other five on the street to drink in your pub. Then again what happens when one of the other pubs does something different, the drinkers who pay for overpriced swill so that they can shout over music at each other are not the type to be loyal to one establishment. So you get into an arms race with the other pubs to attract the fickle drinkers.

Captain Chaos

southsiderosie wrote: »

At my local in Chicago, a pint of craft beer was $3 (Magic Hat) and a meal (burger/fries, large ceasar salad, BBQ chicken) was $7 -8 dollars. My local in Boston was pretty similar, and offered so many different beers that they had a "beer menu" in addition to what was on tap (and written on a giant chalkboard above the bar). My local in Miami didn't have food, but featured 80 beers from around the world at $3/bottle (that was a pretty bare-bones operation, but it's also hidden in the middle of South Beach on an expensive strip of real estate). So you could spend the evening downing Quilmes or a nice Weisse beer for nothing, all while sitting under palm trees watching the beautiful people float by.

That's it I'm of to the 'states.:D

My locals are all like night clubs, music that's too loud to talk to person beside you, overpriced and limited selection of drink. The live music and DJs they get in are terrible and too loud. That goes for the 4 local pubs that are within walking distance for me.

Let the night clubs be night clubs and the pubs as pubs.

Gaunty

BeerNut wrote: »

Dublin, Belfast, Galway, Cork, Templemore, Dungarvan, Kenmare, Dingle and Waringstown all have their own local beers. Carlow has a large brewery though it is impossible to get a pint of their beer in a Carlow pub. We're not like Germany or Belgium, true. But we're getting there.

Fair enough, i was actually unaware there was even that amount of Irish beers on offer. I just presumed they didn't exist as i had never seen or heard of them and they don't show up on my suppliers list of drinks. I'll look into them, any suggestions of whats best?

Gaunty

It is a very varied age group. The pub is split into two parts, a quieter front bar where the 40+ crowd normally drink and a larger back area with the pool table, jukebox etc. where people of all ages drink. We have regulars going from 18 to 84. 70% are probably 30+ however. But the pub is still popular for its pool table among younger drinkers.

BeerNut

Gaunty wrote: »

3. There are no real micro breweries or regional beers in Ireland. It is not like Germany or Belgium where every major town or city seems to have its own local brew.

Dublin, Belfast, Galway, Cork, Templemore, Dungarvan, Kenmare, Dingle and Waringstown all have their own local microbrewed beers. Carlow has a large brewery though it is impossible to get a pint of their beer in a Carlow pub. We're not like Germany or Belgium, true. But we're getting there.

southsiderosie

gaunty, if you don't mind my asking, how old are your regulars? (not trying to be snarky)

southsiderosie

HavingCrack wrote: »

Actually zagmund raises an interesting point here though not intentionally. In America bars are not places for socialising amd meeting people-they're places to go drink and get drunk. However American bars are still thriving. Does anyone know why this is?? Just an interesting difference with the Irish emphasis on socialising.

Hm, as an American who has lived in Ireland, I'm not sure I agree with this. Maybe this is the case for "frat boy" bars, but I certainly saw plenty of Irish treating pubs as a place to "drink and get drunk". Unfortunately, many of them then try to socialize, with disastrous results. In my experience, drunken lunacy at closing time seems to be far worse in Ireland and the UK than in the US, and I've lived in Chicago and Boston, both of which are bar cities.

At my local in Chicago, a pint of craft beer was $3 (Magic Hat) and a meal (burger/fries, large ceasar salad, BBQ chicken) was $7 -8 dollars. My local in Boston was pretty similar, and offered so many different beers that they had a "beer menu" in addition to what was on tap (and written on a giant chalkboard above the bar). My local in Miami didn't have food, but featured 80 beers from around the world at $3/bottle (that was a pretty bare-bones operation, but it's also hidden in the middle of South Beach on an expensive strip of real estate). So you could spend the evening downing Quilmes or a nice Weisse beer for nothing, all while sitting under palm trees watching the beautiful people float by.

So, maybe it's the case that American bars are thriving (and I'd guess not all of them, from what I've heard) in part because it's relatively cheap to go out. It may also be because "drinking to get drunk"is more common among the young, who in America cannot drink in bars until they are 21. This is the same population that in Ireland is retreating from bars to off licenses and their sofas.

Gaunty

I fully agree with you Heroditas. Pubs are far too obsessed now with having the tv on and having music blaring to replace a lack of atmosphere and character. In my pub we have the tv turned off at night unless there is a major sporting event on. The music is turned off during the day and most nights unless someone asks for it on and even then we have it a level where you can only just hear it and still talk at a normal level.

Of course we show the horse racing during the day because there is a bookies across the road and a lot of our regulars love having small bets and enjoyment with their drinks but we find that it helps improve the atmosphere as people are talking about their fancies for each race and getting excited and buying everyone drink when they have a big winner.

We rely on our pool table, card games such as poker or knockout 45 and a good regular base for our atmosphere along with bar staff that will join in the craic and know everyones names and favourite drinks even if that person only comes in a handful of times a year. We also offer beamish which has become our biggest seller ahead of Guiness as we sell it for €3.10 (strangely only a handful of other pubs in town have caught on to the fact people prefer it)

But here is the kicker, with the exception of the varied selection of foreign beers my pub (in my own obviously biased opinion of course!) seems to be the criteria of most people in this thread and what they think a pub should be like however on the busiest street in town with 6 pubs within 50 metres of each other we do the worst business of them all. The others all have their blaring music, more expensive drinks and some have staff that look at you like you are dirt. So i am at a loss here. There is a vocal minority here but the majority seem to like being overcharged and going to cattle mart pubs where they just want you in, get your money, get you out. Places to be seen going i suppose.

The sickening thing is we are now after drawing up plans to remodel the pub and try to modernise more to be like the other pubs to get more business. It breaks my heart the thoughts that my beloved pub with a fine friendly atmosphere has to be replaced by a soulless money grabbing business but it just seems to be the type of place that people want.

southsiderosie

Gaunty wrote: »

I am not trying to be rude or argumentative with this next question guys so please don't take it the wrong way ok.

I am just wondering, do any of the posters in this thread manage a business of their own? If so, what kind of profit margins do you aim for on the goods or services you supply.

Both my uncle and brother are in the pub business in the US; my uncle owns his bar, and my brother is a bar manager. I've worked in my uncle's bar and also helped him with some of his expansion schemes, none of which he's lost money on. I can't give you exact figures on profit margins, but I can tell you what has been his key money makers: 1) improving and expanding his food options, 2) taking advantage of opportunities to expand and reuse space, in particular by adding a party room and a pizza operation and 3) hoarding cash during the boom, which let him expand during the recession at far below cost.

Having a good menu helped him keep his customers, even though he is at the edge of a high-tax county (meaning people could drive an extra 10 minutes for cheaper drinks). It also brings in people who are happy to just eat, which matters given strict drunk driving laws in the US (he is in the suburbs with no public transport). The party room, which has a HUGE flat screen and multiple sports feeds, makes money not just for major sports events, but also for birthday parties etc (again, because people like the food). He bought the pizza oven at fire sale prices, and is now looking into investing in the development of his own microbrewery; last summer we went around Wisconsin checking out stills and sampling different brews.

I think if people want to survive in a changing and competitive industry, they need to take some risks. Too many Irish bars have limited options, not only for beer on tap, but bottles and even for liquor. Obviously the "old" system of doing business isn't working out too well for a lot of pubs; why not take a risk and try something new? Stocking Goose Island or Hendrick's doesn't require putting in new taps (although there are plenty of Irish pubs who could stand to move away from the Guinness/Carlsberg/cider trifecta of evil). Hell, take some initiative and start developing craft beers; I would think there would be both domestic and perhaps even international opportunities (long term) since Ireland is a "brand" for alcohol production.

Heroditas

Gaunty - thanks for explaining the reasons why most pubs would be reluctant to stock some of the more "exotic" beers. That certainly makes sense.
It's a shame that people won't even consider trying some of these beers but instead they want a Heineken/Coors Light/Carlsberg. At least Becks is quite a nice beer.
From my own experience, some of my mates say "urgh, one of those flat ENGLISH beers" when I go to a party and pull out a bottle of Spitfire or Hobgoblin. They change their minds once they actually drink it. I think we, as a country, are obsessed with all things Guinness and if we don't drink that, we drink the "fizzy piss" instead (the lagers I mnentioned above).

As for my own drinking habits, I don't go to the pub much anymore. There are several reasons:

1. I'm not as old as I was and am not out "chasing skirt" anymore.

2. Therefore I like to go to a quiet pub where I can meet up with the lads and we have a laugh. Most pubs have music blaring or have TVs hanging from every corner. Every night of the week Sky Sports is on. FFS! All that happens is your eyes are drawn to the TV.
Please, turn it off! It kills conversation

3. Choice of beers. I like pubs like the Porterhouse because even if I don't have one of the beers on tap, I can try some of the bottled beers and savour them. As a result, if I'm in a pub in Dublin I usually end up drinking Guinness because it's the best of a bad lot. Most pubs don't have an alternative to Guinness either. Quite annoying because Beamish and Murphys are superior IMO.

Prices aren't a big thing for me. I'll spend €5 or €5.50 on a beer if it's very good quality and I like the venue!

But please publicans, turn the TV off and stop trying to deafen us with cheesy music.
We'll actually drink more because we'll enjoy spending time in your hostelry.
By all means, put on the TV if there is a big match on but is there any justification having it on from 10am to midnight 7 days a week and showing Conference Football on a Tuesday night .... or even worse .... Sky Sports News all day?

HavingCrack

zagmund wrote: »

Choice is definitely an issue. I was in the middle of nowhere in the US last week. You could get 20, 30, 40 *quality* beers both local and regional as well as Belgian imports, and others in any bar you could find - even the dives. This got me thinking along similar lines to some of the posters here - you walk into a bar here and you get 4 or 5 generic beers on draught. You may be able to buy *a few* posh bottled beers, but at a huge premium. People in the place I was visiting would choose where to go to because "they have Fat Tire on tap in that place", or "they have a load of those North Carolina micro-brews at the other place". There is some distinction in the range available. It just doesn't appear that this is the case, with the notable exception of places like the Porterhouse which has been mentioned more than once on this thread. People go there because of the variety.

z

Actually zagmund raises an interesting point here though not intentionally. In America bars are not places for socialising amd meeting people-they're places to go drink and get drunk. However American bars are still thriving. Does anyone know why this is?? Just an interesting difference with the Irish emphasis on socialising.

Gaunty

I am not trying to be rude or argumentative with this next question guys so please don't take it the wrong way ok.

I am just wondering, do any of the posters in this thread manage a business of their own? If so, what kind of profit margins do you aim for on the goods or services you supply.

Gaunty

There are reasons the majority of pubs do not have a huge selection of foreign beers on tap.

1. If you seen the pricelist from a supplier those types of beers are more expensive per pint to buy in and normally only come in 20l or 30l kegs. It does not make sense to buy them in when the majority of people will not try new beers or only try it once and then go back to their cheaper regular pint.

2. More taps mean more counter space taken up by pumps and it means the pub needs more storage area and a bigger cooler room to keep the kegs. In my pub we could not get them in even if we wanted to as we don't have the space and we have no room to expand as we are in the center of town.

3. There are no real micro breweries or regional beers in Ireland. It is not like Germany or Belgium where every major town or city seems to have its own local brew.

4. If people are not drinking the new drinks on tap regular then you have to pour off a pint or two from the line when people first ask for it otherwise you are giving out a bad pint. So your just throwing money down the sink.

I hope that helps explain it from a publican point of view.

zagmund

To answer the OPs questions -

For those of you who have left the pub scene and taken up home-drinking, what were your reasons? Was never really a major pub drinker, but cost is definitely a factor. I drink wine as much as I drink beer. I wouldn't mind sitting in a pub with a bottle of wine in front of me, but from what I see most/all pubs don't support that. You can walk into a bar in Spain or Italy, order a bottle of Prosecco or something and nobody bats an eye.

What would you like to see happen in your local that would get you out again?

What do you think the local means in your area / or should mean? A place to meet people and enjoy yourself. Not simply an alcohol dispensing facility.

Do you believe people have been forced into their homes by drink-drive laws / the smoking ban? Drink-drive ban - yes, and this is a good thing. How to fight that - not easy - but change the local from being something which is 95% alcohol focussed to something that is a social area, serving alcohol, serving food, providing entertainment, etc . . . that way drink driving issues become moot for more people.

Choice is definitely an issue. I was in the middle of nowhere in the US last week. You could get 20, 30, 40 *quality* beers both local and regional as well as Belgian imports, and others in any bar you could find - even the dives. This got me thinking along similar lines to some of the posters here - you walk into a bar here and you get 4 or 5 generic beers on draught. You may be able to buy *a few* posh bottled beers, but at a huge premium. People in the place I was visiting would choose where to go to because "they have Fat Tire on tap in that place", or "they have a load of those North Carolina micro-brews at the other place". There is some distinction in the range available. It just doesn't appear that this is the case, with the notable exception of places like the Porterhouse which has been mentioned more than once on this thread. People go there because of the variety.

z

BeerNut

zagmund wrote: »

Is it a beer snob concept ?

Beer snobs don't drink Heineken

The beer snob answer is that you can't claim that Heineken is different in canned and draught (and bottled) form without testing it blind.

zagmund

I don't get the objections to drinking from a can in a pub. Maybe I'm not sufficiently educated :rolleyes: but to me a pint of Heineken from a tap and a pint of Heineken from a can are exactly the same. Maybe one has more bubbles or something, but from my point of view as a consumer it's all the same. Honestly, am I missing something ? Is it a beer snob concept ? It seems to me a little like coffee snobs saying that they would abandon their local cafe if they started selling instant coffee to customers at 50c a cup instead of posh coffee at €2.50 a cup.

z

Teferi

This thread is an interesting read. Unfortunately it has been coloured by examples mainly from Dublin and less outside of the capital so I think the OP may not be getting to many answers that are relevant to his situation. I can't really add anything other than that Dublin pubs are complete rip-offs.

Wasn't there a situation a while back where a pub (around Portebello I think) had a pensioner discount on pints (and it was a really huge discount) and then the pubs of dublin guild/union thingy bitched and moaned about it? It seems competition isn't allowed.

No wonder places like Diceys are packed on nights when they do €2.50 drinks. I think that people want to go to the pub but the prices don't reflect that will at all.

rottenhat

For my part, the biggest factors are the terrible selection of beer in most pubs and the music - I will not go drinking anywhere I can't have a conversation at a reasonable level. If I have to roar to make myself heard over a barrage of noise, I'm not coming back. That and general life changes...I just don't drink that much any more, and I don't spend as much time meeting my friends.

Price is not that big a factor for me. If I'm drinking at home I'll probably be drinking something Belgian or English that isn't a whole lot cheaper than a pint in any case.

BeerNut

Rude of me to start spraffing on in this thread without answering the OP. Sorry.

ardinn wrote: »

For those of you who have left the pub scene and taken up home-drinking, what were your reasons?

It's really just choice for me. I love going to the pub; I regularly go to the tiny handful of pubs that serve beer I like to drink; but the nearest is two miles away which means nipping out for a couple of swift ones means investing a bit of planning, time and effort. A lot of people have mentioned price, but I don't mind paying extra for quality beer. Conversely, I won't pay inflated prices for rubbish.

ardinn wrote: »

What would you like to see happen in your local that would get you out again?

A Galway Hooker or Friar Weisse tap would have me in there a couple of times a week, I'd say. If I'm drinking local I'll usually walk the extra ten minutes for a pub which sells bottled Guinness. But again, sometimes it's just not worth the effort, so I stay home.

ardinn wrote: »

What do you think the local means in your area / or should mean?

I quite like my local. Even though it's not far from the centre of Dublin it has a real community feel to it. I always feel welcome even though I know nobody in there. But I wouldn't visit more than two or three times a year because the beer selection is abysmal.

ardinn wrote: »

Do you believe people have been forced into their homes by drink-drive laws / the smoking ban?

I don't believe for a second that the smoking ban has kept people out of the pubs. I've yet to see any evidence of it and, anecdotally, I know far more people who are encouraged to go and stay longer in the pub because of it. I well believe that the drink driving laws have affected rural pubs, but I think this is a good thing: road safety is more important than rural small business, harsh and all as that may sound; lives over livelihoods.

I would add that I'm very suspicious of the publicans' lobby using the smoking ban and drink driving laws, and the liberal availability of alcohol, as a reason for pubs failing. Pubs fail because they're not offering the customers what they want and I think some publicans have not noticed that a licence isn't the automatic cash cow it once once, and that they have to actually invest in their product if they want it to thrive. Remove the ridiculous archaic licensing system we have in this country and I think the overall quality of pubs will improve.

And a +1 on the insane prices of soft drinks in pubs. Is there an actual rationale there, ardinn?

Imposter

Some criticisms and ideas:
- No price increases after a certain time.
- Bottles of coke/7-up whatever used as mixers sold at or near cost price. Include any pub costs in the price of the spirit (I'm guessing they are anyways

)

- Give driver reduced price soft drinks depending on how many he is driving. Might be a problem in a bigger pub but in a pub relying on customers who need a car it shouldn't be too hard.
- Serve bottled beers like you find in the off-licences at a published mark-up (offie price + pub costs) and in a glass in the pub.

BeerNut

southsiderosie wrote: »

It isn't rocket science: offer good value and a welcoming environment that encourages both newbies and regulars to stop in and linger, and you can do business, even in a difficult economic environment.

Or don't bother, and still rake in the cash, like lots and lots of Irish pubs seem to be doing.

I think the important lesson is: if you don't like the service, selection or prices in the pub FFS don't give them your money. The situation won't change otherwise. And if somewhere does give you what you want, go there and bring other people with you.

southsiderosie

Can I jump in from the perspective of a foreigner who has lived part-time in Dublin (which colors my view of the Irish pub experience) and been in and out of Ireland and other European countries as a tourist?

Ireland is now way overpriced as a tourist destination, and many of the pubs suck - for locals and tourists alike.

As many other posters noticed, the beer selection in a lot of pubs isn't great if you don't want Guinness, cider, or watered down American beer. The wine selection in most bars is atrocious; paying 5 euro for a miserable mini bottle when you can get a nice, full-sized bottle for 8 euro makes no financial sense at all. And the cost of liquor/mixed drinks is astronomical (7-8 euro) and I have never seen such a stingy pour anywhere in my life as I have in Dublin pubs. When pubs are selling mojitos (most of which are badly made anyway) for 10 euro, something has gone horribly, horribly wrong. Not to mention that most pubs don't serve food, or serve bad or expensive food (which isn't available after 9pm anyway).

Therefore, if you live in a place like Dublin, instead of having a drink or two after work, it's much cheaper just to go home. And having a get-together at a friend's house where everyone brings a bottle or case of something - and snacks to boot - can be a much more enjoyable and cheap way to spend the evening.

If you don't live in Ireland, and you and your friends are thinking about somewhere to go for the weekend, why go to Ireland (and Dublin in particular) where the hotels, pubs, and food are expensive, and you need to hire taxis to get around, when you can go to Spain where the drinks, food, and hotels are cheap, and you can walk or take the Metro wherever you want to go? In Spain, the bar service is generally slow and indifferent, but you pay 1.90 for a glass of wine, and they give you a nice plate of olives or ham to go with it. And it's not just Spain; to be honest, for craic, good food and a fun weekend on the town, Belfast is increasingly a far more attractive option than Dublin or Galway (or most places in the Republic), despite the miserable weather. Not only is it much cheaper in the north, but the people working in the service industry (in my experience anyway) are extremely friendly and helpful - kind of like how things used to be in the south.

Finally, just to point out that it isn't all about the cost difference, when I lived in Dublin, the one business in my area that always had people in and out, and a good lunch and afternoon crowd wasn't one of the local pubs, it was the local coffee shop. They had basic, tasty food - soup, sandwiches and pastries - most of which was available for under 5 euro. The staff remembered regulars, and were generally quite friendly. There was free wi-fi, and the place was bright and cheerful, so if you wanted to read the newspaper, you didn't feel as if you were going blind. There was always music on, but it was at a level where you could hear yourself think. And there was a nice, hidden garden in the back where you could smoke, or just read the paper and drink your coffee in the sunshine. It was the kind of place where people went for informal business meetings, or to meet up with friends for lunch or after work. The only thing that could have made this place better would have been if they offered 3 euro bottles/glasses of wine.

It isn't rocket science: offer good value and a welcoming environment that encourages both newbies and regulars to stop in and linger, and you can do business, even in a difficult economic environment.

BeerNut

marceldesailly wrote: »

Is it not a bit depresing for the publican too?

Nope: Simple to run. Decent margins. Lines taken care of. Consistent supply. Regular discounts and perks. Promotional materials provided.

As long as there's a queue of unfussy drinkers willing to pay for it: happy days!

marceldesailly

An example from last night why I tend to avoid most pubs.

Choice of beers.
Draught:Coors light,Miller,Becks,Bavaria,Heineken,Carlsberg,Guinness,Cider.
Bottles: Coors light,Miller,Corona,Heineken,Cider

I think this list is probably representative of the majority of pubs, a sad fact i'd say.6 lagers that taste of nothing and a stout not much better. So I'll buy a nice bottle of beer...oh no I can't do that either!

If I'm going to a pub I expect to be able to buy a beer that tastes of something,or have a choice. It's pretty depressing walking to the bar and to be faced with the choice above. Is it not a bit depresing for the publican too?

Evolute

Gaunty wrote: »

They are probably not losing money but i can guarentee they are not making money either. They are only just covering costs with no profit. The overheads costs are unbelievable in running a modern pub these days. It's not as simple as just having to buy in drink and trying to rip off customers as a lot of people think.

I seriously doubt that they are not making a profit the place is packed to capacity every thursday They do charge a fiver in though.
I worked in the local pub for two years and not one member of the lounge staff got paid minimum wage.
Infact when I was working there I got paid 7.50 an hour and did a max of 5 hour shifts
But selling something with a ridicolous mark up is still robbery.

You can't really justify charging a fiver for a pint that cost the pub pittence
Or recently being charged 5.60 for a bottle of miller I can get 20 at a cost of 84 cent each down the road out of the off license.
The pubs can't be charged more then that per bottle infact I would bet they quite possibly pay less.
Prove me wrong with actual figures and to be honest I would be happier paying for a pint