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Rachel Corrie, Irish ship on Collision Course with Israeli Navy Near Gaza

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Comments

  • #182
    deisedevil
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    axer wrote: »
    Hamas only exists because of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians in the first place thus Israel would be just using this as an excuse rather than it being possibly a valid reason.

    Palestinians without Hamas would have probably meant Israel would have just taken over all the Palestinian land. Palestinians with Hamas, Israel claims they have the right to blockade and pretty much starve Palestinians. Either way Israel want the Palestinians to bend over.

    That's close enough to the truth of it.

    Back through history when people are being oppressed and there's no sign of any help coming from other nations then they will resort to armed resistance.


  • #183
    Truley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭Truley


    axer wrote: »
    Hamas only exists because of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians in the first place thus Israel would be just using this as an excuse rather than it being possibly a valid reason.

    Palestinians without Hamas would have probably meant Israel would have just taken over all the Palestinian land. Palestinians with Hamas, Israel claims they have the right to blockade and pretty much starve Palestinians. Either way Israel want the Palestinians to bend over.

    One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Hamas are just freedom fighters with very bad PR.


  • #184
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    strobe wrote: »
    Ethnic cleansing: Ethnic cleansing is a term that has come to be used broadly to describe all forms of ethnically-motivated violence, ranging from murder, rape, and torture to the forcible removal of populations.[1] A 1993 United Nations Commission defined it more specifically as, "the planned deliberate removal from a specific territory, persons of a particular ethnic group, by force or intimidation, in order to render that area ethnically homogenous.

    Again, wiping someone from existence to me does not mean removing then from a specific area. It means removing them from life itself.
    Truley wrote: »
    One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Hamas are just freedom fighters with very bad PR.

    Actually there is a huge difference. The Warsaw Ghetto uprising/French Resistance for example could be classified as 'freedom fighters' but they weren't terrorists.


  • #185
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    prinz wrote: »
    Again, wiping someone from existence to me does not mean removing then from a specific area. It means removing them from life itself.



    Actually there is a huge difference. The Warsaw Ghetto uprising/French Resistance for example could be classified as 'freedom fighters' but they weren't terrorists.

    That depends on who was doing the labelling prinz, the Nazis considered them such.

    As far as ethnic cleansing goes, when the Serbs attempted to remove the Bosnians in the 90's, it was most definitely reported as ethnic cleansing, why make a differentiation for the removal of Palestinians?

    It's not as simple as just killing them and taking their land, that's Genocide, forcibly moving them is most assuredly 'ethnic cleansing'.


  • #186
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    karma_ wrote: »
    That depends on who was doing the labelling prinz, the Nazis considered them such..

    The Nazis may have. But their ways of operating would tell us differently.
    karma_ wrote: »
    As far as ethnic cleansing goes, when the Serbs attempted to remove the Bosnians in the 90's, it was most definitely reported as ethnic cleansing, why make a differentiation for the removal of Palestinians? It's not as simple as just killing them and taking their land, that's Genocide, forcibly moving them is most assuredly 'ethnic cleansing'.

    Once again, I didn't deny ethnic cleansing by removal from land etc. I disagreed with the statement that Israel's goal was to "wipe them from existence". You drive a people off their land and steal it - the people still exists. You round them up and put a bullet through their heads - you are trying to wipe them out.


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  • #187
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    axer wrote: »
    Hamas only exists because of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians in the first place thus Israel would be just using this as an excuse rather than it being possibly a valid reason.

    Palestinians without Hamas would have probably meant Israel would have just taken over all the Palestinian land. Palestinians with Hamas, Israel claims they have the right to blockade and pretty much starve Palestinians. Either way Israel want the Palestinians to bend over.

    So is that why Fatah had to flee from Gaza and move to the West Bank?
    Why are Hamas not ruling the West Bank too?
    Why is there no blockade on the West Bank?
    Truley wrote: »
    One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Hamas are just freedom fighters with very bad PR.

    I don't think Hamas offers much freedom when they are involved in suicide bombings.
    It is not just Israel who have a problem with Hamas, Egypt too want nothing to do with Hamas.


  • #188
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Min wrote: »
    Why is there no blockade on the West Bank?

    The West Bank is landlocked.


  • #189
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    Min wrote: »
    Why is there no blockade on the West Bank?




    ha!


  • #190
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Min wrote: »
    So is that why Fatah had to flee from Gaza and move to the West Bank?
    .

    They were preparing to launch a coup against Hamas and were beaten to the punch. Much bloodshed followed.
    Min wrote: »
    Why are Hamas not ruling the West Bank too?.

    Insufficient support. Also, they are targeted by Fatah and Israel just as Hamas targeted Fatah supporters.
    Min wrote: »
    Why is there no blockade on the West Bank?

    Because Israel is building settlements there, and Fatah under Abbas have been paid to keep its population in line.
    Min wrote: »
    I don't think Hamas offers much freedom when they are involved in suicide bombings.

    A method of attack doesn't really indicate anything, save a comment on resources.
    Min wrote: »
    It is not just Israel who have a problem with Hamas, Egypt too want nothing to do with Hamas.

    ....yet where the passive Fatah are, Israel continues with its road blocks, building and land seizures. In Arab East Jerusalem, the slow drip removal of the Palestinian population continues, day in, day out. Yet all we hear from certain elements is "HAMAS" as if that explained everything or anything...


  • #191
    Wagon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,119 ✭✭✭Wagon


    the woman in charge of this whole thing called the possibility of hamas militants using the materials to make weapons "silly".

    This is bound to end well.


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  • #192
    Mister men
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭Mister men


    Any news on the boat. Just got a text saying all contact lost with it.:(


  • #193
    shaneybaby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 415 ✭✭shaneybaby


    Mister men wrote: »
    Any news on the boat. Just got a text saying all contact lost with it.:(

    Not good. You know if there is any international UN/media boats out there?


  • #194
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    One of the items that is in one of the IDF released videos as weapon is actually a isotonic solution that would be adminished Intravenously nomally for such cases as Shock, Hyponatremia, Blood Transfusions (note there appears to be blood on the bottle and the medical type tubing in the top of the bottle), Resuscitation and Fluid challenges .


    Its between 0.51 & 0.53 on the video entitled Weapons Found on the Flotilla Ship Mavi Marmara Used by Activists Against IDF Soldiers

    On the idfnadesk channel on youtube.


  • #195
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    gandalf wrote: »
    One of the items that is in one of the IDF released videos as weapon is actually a isotonic solution that would be adminished Intravenously nomally for such cases as Shock, Hyponatremia, Blood Transfusions (note there appears to be blood on the bottle and the medical type tubing in the top of the bottle), Resuscitation and Fluid challenges.

    Except you don't know what was actually in it, nor what it may have been used as. That's about as useful as saying a petrol bomb in the north were actually a lovely French Burgundy based on the bottle.


  • #196
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    prinz wrote: »
    That's about as useful as saying a petrol bomb in the north were actually a lovely French Burgundy based on the bottle.

    Except for the rag out the top of course.


  • #197
    deisedevil
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7802608/Gaza-flotilla-Israel-accused-of-sabotaging-Irish-aid-ship-Rachel-Corrie.html

    So now it's ok for Israel to cut off communications with a ship in international waters. That's crazy stuff. Just even from a point of view of safety for the ship.


  • #198
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    prinz wrote: »
    Except you don't know what was actually in it, nor what it may have been used as. That's about as useful as saying a petrol bomb in the north were actually a lovely French Burgundy based on the bottle.

    prinz take a good look at that video, there is rubber tubing going into a bigger tube in the top of the bottle which is half filled with a bloodied liquid. There is blood on the outside of the bottle and the wire is shaped into a handle so someone can hold it above the patient being treated.

    The label on the bottle has the following words visable "Sodyum Klorur" and "Izotonix".

    Its a Medical Bottle and the sad thing is that it was used.


  • #199
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    prinz wrote: »
    Except you don't know what was actually in it, nor what it may have been used as. That's about as useful as saying a petrol bomb in the north were actually a lovely French Burgundy based on the bottle.

    Oh please, you are really reaching with this one.


  • #200
    ldxo15wus6fpgm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    Peanut wrote: »

    Which is a step from "Any state has the legal right..." which is now being reported by BBC News etc.

    Fixed :p I wouldn't go near Fox news, waste of time.

    I reckon that because this blockade has been tolerated for so long already everyone will treat it as if it is a legal blockade, and for that reason the media are doing the same.


  • #201
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Israel have 200+ nukes plus so they're hot lick with the USA so they can basically do what they want.


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  • #202
    SeaFields
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭SeaFields


    gandalf wrote: »
    The label on the bottle has the following words visable "Sodyum Klorur" and "Izotonix".

    Its a Medical Bottle and the sad thing is that it was used.

    Sodyum Klorur = Sodium Chloride. Its a saline IV bottle used to treat somebody who is using a lot of blood as far as I know.


  • #203
    Amalgam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    Israel have 200+ nukes plus so they're hot lick with the USA so they can basically do what they want.

    ..worth pointing out the weapons and technology were *NOT* provided by the US. The US didn't think it was a good idea to do so. You have to look at France for the honour of being the country to arm Israel with nuclear weapons.

    A machiavellian tale, there's even a book or two written about how Israel came to have nuclear weapons.

    http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Bomb-Avner-Cohen/dp/0231104839


  • #204
    Peanut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭Peanut


    SeaFields wrote: »
    Sodyum Klorur = Sodium Chloride. Its a saline IV bottle used to treat somebody who is using a lot of blood as far as I know.

    Yeah I recognise that bottle, it's a standard isotonic solution available in all Turkish pharmacies for about €1.50. Used to use it as a contact lens storage solution when I was living there.


  • #205
    axer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,518 ✭✭✭axer


    Peanut wrote: »
    Yeah I recognise that bottle, it's a standard isotonic solution available in all Turkish pharmacies for about €1.50. Used to use it as a contact lens storage solution when I was living there.
    But it could be a nuclear bomb for all we know...:rolleyes:


  • #206
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    deisedevil wrote: »

    So now it's ok for Israel to cut off communications with a ship in international waters. That's crazy stuff. Just even from a point of view of safety for the ship.
    "As a result they plan to pull it back to port and pack it with celebrities and journalists, in a direct challenge to Israel".

    It will be great to see some celebrities gaining Palistinian citizenship.


  • #207
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Rabies wrote: »
    "If any harm comes to any of our citizens, it will have the most serious consequences," Prime Minister Brian Cowen

    I'm sure the're terrified of us.

    I suppose if we were propped up with billions in American military support, like Israel is. Then we could be quite a terrifying prospect.


  • #208
    moonpurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭moonpurple


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    Israel have 200+ nukes plus so they're hot lick with the USA so they can basically do what they want.

    over 200 nukes - sounds like tel aviv propaganda,

    let us slowly kill gaza people or we will nuke the arab world..:pac:


  • #209
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Hope that the single commando who was responsible for killing 6 of the activists on the Mavi Marmara will not be part of the boarding party on the Rachel Corrie. By the way, he is in line to receive a medal of valor for his actions.


  • #210
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Kivaro wrote: »
    Hope that the single commando who was responsible for killing 6 of the activists on the Mavi Marmara will not be part of the boarding party on the Rachel Corrie. By the way, he is in line to receive a medal of valor for his actions.

    Well shooting 6 unarmed peace activists in the head at close range while armed to the teeth sounds about right for the israeli notion of valour.


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  • #211
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    So tell us about your experiences on that ship sonny.

    You were obviously there and witnessed all this at close quarters?


This discussion has been closed.
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