Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.

DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

1…5354555759

Comments

  • #1682
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,314 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    watty wrote: »
    Every Sky box I had, did in fact have a rear module slot. In it was a connector physically compatible with CAM behind a blank plate. I believe it was in case either Sky was forced to accommodate another PayTV CAM on the box or that the internal CAM was so compromised that a card update alone was not enough.

    If memory serves didn't NDS manufacture and supply ONE CAM to meet some requirement. The slot on the box wasn't I believe mandated but was there for another reason, discussed in articles at the time but can't be specific. Similar to the built in and unused DiSEqC switching.


  • #1683
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,243 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    The Cush wrote: »
    Do a search of the Dáil record in the late 90's, they were all getting a little confused DTT or DDT.

    For example
    The Bill will open the floodgates to a certain extent. We will be able to access many new stations if DTT comes into play. When I saw the letters “DTT” first, it reminded me of my youth when DDT managed to clear the country of all forms of parasites, fleas and crickets, which used keep everyone awake. DDT was magical. I hope that DTT does for television what DDT did for all the vermin that survived after the war.
    To be fair, there's no indication of confusion or ignorance on the part of that TD. He simply said that he was reminded of the formerly popular pesticide DDT and hoped that DTT would have the same success.


  • #1684
    scath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    From reading through the debate, sounds to me like specifications may be subject to change and have to be finalised. That opens the door to DVB-T2 spec. Certainly the set top boxes will be available. If we want to be fully in sync with the UK then that is probably the spec we should go for. Cost is the main issue so perhaps they'll stick with the current spec.


  • #1685
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I seriously doubt there will be a change to specs or a move to T2. Not enough time.


    @ The Cush. Diseqc is just software. No extra hardware needed if on boxes that use 10.7 to 12.6 Universal LNBs. Similary the module slot needs firmware to do anything. In theory it could have even been used to add ethernet and/or MPEG4 to the basic box. Sky in the end never needed it and Sky+ is now minimum box. It will not be long till Sky only supply SkyHD box (as it works as a Sky+ box even on old 4:3 or 16:9 CRTs).


  • #1686
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,518 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    watty wrote: »

    I seriously doubt there will be a change to specs or a move to T2. Not enough time.

    They have proved that when it comes to time, God made plenty of it. What's another year.


  • Advertisement
  • #1687
    endakenny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭endakenny


    watty wrote: »
    I seriously doubt there will be a change to specs or a move to T2. Not enough time.
    What is T2?


  • #1688
    mossym
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    watty wrote: »
    Sky in the end never needed it and Sky+ is now minimum box. It will not be long till Sky only supply SkyHD box (as it works as a Sky+ box even on old 4:3 or 16:9 CRTs).

    i thought that had already happened?


  • #1689
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    No, Sky+ is still supplied. basic box gone.


  • #1690
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    endakenny wrote: »
    What is T2?
    http://www.dvb.org/technology/dvbt2/index.xml


  • #1691
    mossym
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    watty wrote: »
    No, Sky+ is still supplied. basic box gone.

    you sure? have read several places sky Hd box is now standard, for example


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66160547#post66160547


  • Advertisement
  • #1692
    slicedpanman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭✭slicedpanman


    endakenny wrote: »
    What is T2?

    I have the answer to that here somewhere... let me look for it;
    I'll be back :cool:


  • #1693
    mossym
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    slicedpanman wrote: »
    I have the answer to that here somewhere... let me look for it;
    I'll be back :cool:

    queue cheesy drum roll...


  • #1694
    scath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    endakenny wrote: »
    What is T2?

    Short for DVB-T2 which is Digital Video Broadcasting Terrestrial 2.

    Its the recent 2nd generation of 12 year old digital terrestrial standard DVB-T the transmission method. DVB-T2 or T2 for short improved on the transmission encoding from T or DVB-T. That means it has up to 45% more capacity and similar electricity reduction demands than DVB-T (DVB-T also can be called T1 or DVB-T1 but usually isn't)

    MPEG4 on the other hand is to do with the video encoding and AC-4 the audio part of it. DVB-T relates simply to signal transmission and multiplex management as far as I know.


  • #1695
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    mossym wrote: »
    you sure? have read several places sky Hd box is now standard, for example


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66160547#post66160547

    Not being paying attention. Anyhow, was expected. Pity the recording / playback doesn't work at all even on free channels when you cancel sub. Bit mean. Better off buying Freesat branded PVR unless you want sport sub for all time.


  • #1696
    FREETV
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,673 ✭✭✭FREETV


    watty wrote: »
    Not being paying attention. Anyhow, was expected. Pity the recording / playback doesn't work at all even on free channels when you cancel sub. Bit mean. Better off buying Freesat branded PVR unless you want sport sub for all time.
    I totally agree with you Watty. Stopping the recording and playback functions is a little bit strange when one is after paying for a minimum 12 month subscription. No wonder why Freesat and FTA sat has become so popular and is only a one off payment. Most of the half decent content watchable is already free to air and apart from their sports package, the rest is a complete rip off, particularily their movie channels are utter rubbish. Movies repeated to death! A waste of hard earned money. I can see their services being dropped by most of the people who aren't sports fanatics in the not too distant future, especially after the full Saorview official launch. Freesat and a couple of aerials erected is the way to go. :D


  • #1697
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,154 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    watty wrote: »
    Every Sky box I had, did in fact have a rear module slot. In it was a connector physically compatible with CAM behind a blank plate. I believe it was in case either Sky was forced to accommodate another PayTV CAM on the box or that the internal CAM was so compromised that a card update alone was not enough.

    The slot was for the ondigital 'sidecar', which was to be a UHF tuner and CAM that could use the MPEG and display hardware in a Sky box. This was when it was expected that some terrestrials and some cable stations may never have gone on satellite so there would be a market for DTT and Sky in the same house.

    Never came to market.

    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/sky-digital-faq/ is one of the few places I can see still mentioning it, but it at least proves my memory isn't shot!


  • #1698
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Now they do that with a USB DTT stick (Sky boxes in Italy).


  • #1699
    mossym
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    watty wrote: »
    Now they do that with a USB DTT stick (Sky boxes in Italy).

    i think that is the first time i have heard of an actual use for the USB ports on the sky box


  • #1700
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,314 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    watty wrote: »
    Now they do that with a USB DTT stick (Sky boxes in Italy).

    And Silvio isn't happy


  • #1701
    reslfj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 883 ✭✭✭reslfj


    scath wrote: »
    Short for DVB-T2 which is Digital Video Broadcasting Terrestrial 2.

    That means it has up to 45% more capacity and similar electricity reduction demands than DVB-T.

    DVB-T2 as used in the UK since December 2. for the HD transmissions uses a bitrate of 40.21 Mbit/sec while the (post DSO) UK DVB-T muxes has a bitrate of 24.13 or DVB-T2 has 66.6% more capacity.
    The electricity demand will be reduced similar, but the current 1th generation DVB-T2 receiver chips will use some more power (maybe 1/2W more while reciving).

    Lars :)


  • Advertisement
  • #1702
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Taking into account the SAME H.264 and Eb/No the DVB-T2 can't really deliver more than 25% to 30% more capacity. The headline DVB-T2 savings are misleading. Of course it depends on how you measure the % also. Statistical multiplexing has improved too and for 6 channels can give 50% saving or even x2 compared to fixed allocation. Of course on DSL or similar IPTV/VOD medium you can't have more than one or two channels and Statistical Multiplexing then gives you nothing.


  • #1703
    reslfj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 883 ✭✭✭reslfj


    watty wrote: »
    Taking into account the SAME H.264 and Eb/No the DVB-T2 can't really deliver more than 25% to 30% more capacity.


    NO WAY!

    The bitrates I quoted - 40.21 vs 24.13 - are the RAW bitrates available to the MPEG transport stream(s). They do NOT include anything about H.264 nor stat-muxing.

    These are the exact bitrates you can measure today eg. from Wales.

    The robustness - Eb/No in your terms - is very much the same for all UK post DSO PBS muxes. For an AWGN channel DVB-T2 is a little worse, for a Rician channel about the same, for a Rayleigh channel better and for impulse noise Very much better. The coverage of the post DSO UK public service muxes are very much the same.

    As for calculating the increase in percent I use the formula:

    (40.21 - 14.13)*100%/24.13 = 66.6390 %

    The simpel fact is that two DVB-T2 transmitters with 80.42 Mbit/sec will have the same coverage to normal aerials as three DVB-T transmitters with a capacity of just 72.39 Mbit/sec. The two DVB-T2 transmitters will of cause consume just 2/3 of the DVB-T power.

    Lars :)


  • #1704
    surf board
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 174 ✭✭surf board


    Article in broadbandandtvnews.com today;

    "In the absence of a commercial player a working group has been established to set the necessary technical standards. Ryan said receivers, which will run MPEG-4, DVB-T2, are ready to go. They will be tested by Sweden’s Teracom and comply with specifications set out by the Scandinavia standards body NorDig."

    Full article here
    http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2010/06/03/ryan-ireland-will-meet-dtt-deadlines/


  • #1705
    scath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    The box spec wasn't specified in the debates but set top boxes and kit ready to go could relate to T2. I'm just emailing the author to clarify that. He does have a new photo so I'm guessing he must have checked with the Dept.I sent him the debates link & he has the contact to check. Clarifying specifications sounds to me like they are going for T2. That tallies with what was told in Peats that slightly over half the transmitters are T2 ready only to switch them on.


  • #1706
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    surf board wrote: »
    Article in broadbandandtvnews.com today;

    "In the absence of a commercial player a working group has been established to set the necessary technical standards. Ryan said receivers, which will run MPEG-4, DVB-T2, are ready to go. They will be tested by Sweden’s Teracom and comply with specifications set out by the Scandinavia standards body NorDig."

    Full article here
    http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2010/06/03/ryan-ireland-will-meet-dtt-deadlines/

    The RTE_NL minimal requirements specify DVB-T as the standard to be used - http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/RTE-FTA-DTT-Receiver-Spec.pdf .

    After many people invested in DVB-T equipment meeting most of these specs. I hope the article above is either another mis-quote/misunderstanding either by the minister or the press or some of the receivers are in fact DVB-T2 which is DVB-T backward compatible (I think).

    DVB-T broadcast was always the plan wasn't it, Is it not to late to change given the soft launch date ?


  • #1707
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭Apogee


    The Saorview standard has always been, and will be, MPEG4 DVB-T.

    Even if some posters on this forum are unwilling or unable to accept that fact.


  • #1708
    scath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    I accept the fact if DVB-T is what it is.. He's checking that. The latest nordig spec calls for T2 so it is possible that is what is being checked. Of course T2 is backward compatible with DVB-T so no issue there but T2 boxes if available would have to be checked and may be why not many tested except 1 and ie likely Humax and others expressing interest. Best check it with Dept/RTÉ NL if it is.

    But talking about kit and boxes just ready sounds like T2 talk apogee. I'll have no problem if I hear it confirmed its DVB-T. Grand. Always best accept reality. No point living in dreamland. So yer prob referring to other posters lol.

    But do remember since it is not publicly launched they are within their rights to change the spec. They haven't publicly launched it so if anyone went out and bought kit, that was their own business. So bear in mind that spec is 2 years old in a different scenario. But by the way the Minister spoke in the dail yesterday around clarifying regulations and set top boxes being ready does lead one to believe he is referring to T2 because T1 MPEG4 boxes are around for a a number of months now or more. Its T2 boxes that are just ready including the transmission kit with deployments in Italy planned use shortly: http://www.digitag.org/DTTNews/article.php?Id=3234

    Latest Nordig spec is: http://www.nordig.org/pdf/NorDig-Unified_ver_2.1.pdf. Is this the one Teracom are testing to or 2.0?


  • #1709
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭Apogee


    You can believe what you want. The standard has already been defined.


  • #1710
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,785 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Apogee wrote: »
    The Saorview standard has always been, and will be, MPEG4 DVB-T.

    Even if some posters on this forum are unwilling or unable to accept that fact.
    :confused::confused: what do you mean by unwilling or unable?
    I've seen no such post here,only discussion.


  • Advertisement
  • #1711
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I can think of one or maybe two posters. Certainly not me or you Black Briar :)


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement