Politician-At last a spark of humanity

Kelda09 · 01-06-2010 01:03AM

OPENROAD wrote: »

Oh I know, thats the point, it really is the forgotten illness, people think its just about memory loss and you only get it in your late 70's 80's etc.. but its far more than that, the memory loss is just a small small part, people really don't know the half of it, I find it so hard to understand why it does not get more funding

That's exactly it. And it's so hard to explain to people. The feeling you get when you have to help to change a loved ones incontinence pad, or help them shower etc, it changes the whole relationship. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like for somebody's son or daughter to have to go through that, and if there was funding there, they wouldn't have too.
Ill never forget the day I was talking to a friend and told her that my relative didn't know who I was until I reminded him. How I just felt like crying (or screaming!) and she just couldn't comprehend my sadness,as he recalled me after I reminded him, but too me that was the day the disease became final, and irreversible. The fact that Someone he saw everyday, used to know so well, knew everything about, was unknown to him at that stage. Granted he recalled me after he was reminded, but he soon stopped recalling me, no matter how often I told him who I was. THAT'S the stuff that would fuel the funding if people could feel that sadness and the frustration
God, sorry,I sound like a total moaner. I apologise for wittering on. I promise Ill stop now:o

Biggins · 01-06-2010 01:04AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

There are plenty of honest politicians in the country. The day people realise this & pay less lip service to those who admit their failings a decade later and only when a personal issue affects them, will be a much better day for the country.

At lest some of them admit their failings.
Some still in power after many, many equal years won't admit theirs - and I don't mean that just to be on the FF side.

Its a damn good start that a man (or woman) can openly admit that they did wrong for the 2/3 (?) years their held a particular office.
As FF are in power now for near 24 years now in total, how many of them would admit same by the way - on camera or off?

I give credit and sympathy where it is due - either side of the isle for honesty stated.

Kelda09 · 01-06-2010 01:04AM

K-9 wrote: »

Ideally we'd have compassion while being a Minister, but unfortunately, it seems a big ask!

It definitely seems that way. But have faith, things can only get better!! They can't get much worse, can they.....:rolleyes:

Kelda09 · 01-06-2010 01:08AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Of all the people to pick as a poster boy spokesman for people suffering from illnesses, Michael Noonan is the last person you'd go for if you were looking for some positive PR.

You know the old saying "there's no such thing as bad publicity....." If it gets the topic out there, then good and well, hopefully it'll get people talking and keep the subject out there.

OPENROAD · 01-06-2010 01:11AM

Kelda09 wrote: »

That's exactly it. And it's so hard to explain to people. The feeling you get when you have to help to change a loved ones incontinence pad, or help them shower etc, it changes the whole relationship. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like for somebody's son or daughter to have to go through that, and if there was funding there, they wouldn't have too.
Ill never forget the day I was talking to a friend and told her that my relative didn't know who I was until I reminded him. How I just felt like crying (or screaming!) and she just couldn't comprehend my sadness,as he recalled me after I reminded him, but too me that was the day the disease became final, and irreversible. The fact that Someone he saw everyday, used to know so well, knew everything about, was unknown to him at that stage. Granted he recalled me after he was reminded, but he soon stopped recalling me, no matter how often I told him who I was. THAT'S the stuff that would fuel the funding if people could feel that sadness and the frustration
God, sorry,I sound like a total moaner. I apologise for wittering on. I promise Ill stop now:o

Hey no the more people that talk about it the better, and looking at Ireland, we are going to have a HUGE aging population in the nxt 20 years or so, this is going to be even a bigger problem then it is now if they have not found something to stop it in its tracks.

K-9 · 01-06-2010 01:13AM

Biggins wrote: »

At lest some of them admit their failings.
Some still in power after many, many equal years won't admit theirs - and I don't mean that just to be on the FF side.

Its a damn good start that a man (or woman) can openly admit that they did wrong for the 2/3 (?) years their held a particular office.
As FF are in power now for near 24 years now in total, how many of them would admit same by the way - on camera or off?

I give credit and sympathy where it is due - either side of the isle for honesty stated.

Did he mention the McColes? Crocodile tears!

Indeed, one could say he was using personal experience, his wife, to try and appear sympathetic and a victim.

FG will use this. I remember FG in Govt. I remember the McCole case. I remember the cuts they made and the denial of the McColes and the Hepatitis victims.

If people think FG are the cure to the current problems, I'll highlight it.

If FG were the cure, Mr. Noonan would have mentioned the McColes. The fact that he didn't means we will get more of the same with FG.

oppenheimer1 · 01-06-2010 01:14AM

Biggins wrote: »

Saw it tonight. Deeply moving stuff.
I wish some blinkered FF supporters who think the other side is just made up of evil, saw it too.
It would have given them an inkling as to the fuller picture that they are not conveniently seeing by their fanaticism.

Yes starbelgrade, it would be the same man and in the interview that is available on RTE website to view shortly, he admits having seen the "other side" - having been there, he acknowledge more so that changes clearly need to be made to the health system.
At least he admitted it. I wish a few more politicians would be so honest, either side of the Dail.

Sometimes we forget that these people are humans too. Too often they are portrayed by the media as self serving emotionless drones who's only purpose is to make everyone else's life more miserable.

It then takes a display of emotion, such as Micheal Noonan tonight or Brian Lenihans interview with Miriam O'Callaghan before Christmas to help us remember, these are just ordinary people with big responsibilities.

Kelda09 · 01-06-2010 01:15AM

OPENROAD wrote: »

Hey no the more people that talk about it the better, and looking at Ireland, we are going to have a HUGE aging population in the nxt 20 years or so, this is going to be even a bigger problem then it is now if they have not found something to stop it in its tracks.

Exactly, and add the early onset alzhiemers to the members of the ageing population as well. :eek: All we can do is stay positive, and work towords better understanding and knowledge.

starbelgrade · 01-06-2010 01:15AM

Kelda09 wrote: »

You know the old saying "there's no such thing as bad publicity....." If it gets the topic out there, then good and well, hopefully it'll get people talking and keep the subject out there.

Some more endearing words on our lovely Mr.Noonan, from the Irish Examiner;

The Brigid McCole case effectively destroyed the political career of former Fine Gael leader Michael Noonan and remains one of the biggest health scandals in the history of the State.

Mrs McCole died in October, 1996, from liver failure, after being infected with hepatitis C through contaminated anti-D blood product. She was survived by her husband, Brianie, and their 12 children.

After her death, her family called on Michael Noonan to resign his position as Minister for Health, claiming Mrs McCole was "threatened" for pursuing her compensation claim through the courts. Brigid's daughter, Brid McCole, said the family wanted Mr Noonan to explain why the State threatened her mother in a letter.

The Blood Transfusion Services Boards's solicitors wrote to Mrs McCole's solicitors on September 20, 12 days before she died, threatening to "seek all additional costs" from that date if she proceeded with her action.

The letter warned: "If your client proceeds with her claim for aggravated and exemplary/punitive damages against our client and fails, then our client will rely on this letter in an application to the court against your client for all costs relating to the claim for such damages and for an order setting off any costs to which your client might otherwise be entitled."

The Finlay tribunal found that this letter was shown to Michael Noonan before it was sent and was not altered.

15 years later we get a shred of honesty from a man who was a disgrace to his position, a man who was driven purely by his own self interests.

He may well become a spokesman for the issue, but I feel that the more he speaks up about the issue, the more of his history will be dragged up by those who - like me - still believe that he is driven only by his own self interests.

Had his wife not fallen ill, he would still be denying his mistakes, wrong doings & the unbelievable hurt he caused to others.

Like I said, Alzheimers could do with anybody but him promoting awareness. To me, it's akin to Cardinal Sean Brady promoting a "Stranger Danger" child safety campaign.

K-9 · 01-06-2010 01:19AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Some more endearing words on our lovely Mr.Noonan, from the Irish Examiner;

15 years later we get a shred of honesty from a man who was a disgrace to his position, a man who was driven purely by his own self interests.

He may well become a spokesman for the issue, but I feel that the more he speaks up about the issue, the more of his history will be dragged up by those who - like me - still believe that he is driven only by his own self interests.

Had his wife not fallen ill, he would still be denying his mistakes, wrong doings & the unbelievable hurt he caused to others.

Like I said, Alzheimers could do with anybody but him promoting awareness. To me, it's akin to Cardinal Sean Brady promoting a "Stranger Danger" child safety campaign.

Thank you for that post. I've posted that before to get the full enormity of the case. There was an RTE series based on the events that went on.

Biggins · 01-06-2010 01:23AM

K-9 wrote: »

Did he mention the McColes? Crocodile tears!
Indeed, one could say he was using personal experience, his wife, to try and appear sympathetic and a victim.
FG will use this. I remember FG in Govt. I remember the McCole case. I remember the cuts they made and the denial of the McColes and the Hepatitis victims.
If people think FG are the cure to the current problems, I'll highlight it.
If FG were the cure, Mr. Noonan would have mentioned the McColes. The fact that he didn't means we will get more of the same with FG.

* Did bertie give any sympathy for the public money he wasted at the tribunals, when he was leader (not to mention in the years under Charlie as finance man) ?
* Did Bertie give any sympathy for the many cock-ups in the running of the state under his direction?
* Did Harney give any sympathy for Crumlin Hospital as she and FF voted in the Dail this year, to deny it the funds to stay fully operational?
* Did Cowen show any sympathy to the thousands effected in 3 communities currently being denied their right to an elected representative?
* Did Willie O'Dea show sympathy for the cutting of many items/funds/equipment/Gardi numbers?

Want me to go on...?

You want to talk about croc' tears? Fianna Fail have been shedding them for 24 years now when convenient so that don't wash!
The public DO sometimes see people honestly admit mistakes sometimes and give sympathy in response. Nothing wrong with that.

Kelda09 · 01-06-2010 01:26AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

.

He may well become a spokesman for the issue, but I feel that the more he speaks up about the issue, the more of his history will be dragged up by those who - like me - still believe that he is driven only by his own self interests.

Thank you for that post. I've posted that before to get the full enormity of the case. There was an RTE series based on the events that went on.

Sorry can't properly work multi-quote! I just want to say that I don't mean to infer that any of that is cancelled out or that it is less important by him talking about his current situation. It is terrible that any of that happened and ideally he should be made to account for his actions and face the reality of what happened.

starbelgrade · 01-06-2010 01:30AM

Biggins wrote: »

* Did bertie give any sympathy for the public money he wasted at the tribunals when he was leader (not to mention in the years under Charlie as finance man) ?
* Did Bertie give any sympathy for the many cock-up in the running of the state under his direction?
* Did Harney give any sympathy for Crumlin Hospital as she and FF voted in the Dail this year, to deny it the funds to stay fully operational?
* Did Cowen show any sympathy to the thousands effected in 3 communities currently being denied their right to an elected representative?
* Did Willie O'Dea show sympathy for the cutting of many items/funds/equipment/Gardi numbers?

To all the above, no.

But if they did, would it change your opinion of them, or more importantly, would it make any difference - especially if, as in the case of Noonan, their sympathy only came about as a result of something that adversley affected them personally & not because they felt sorry for the suffering caused by their f*cking over of other's people's lives just to serve their own self interests & their desire for power?

To all the above, I would think, 'no'.

Especially if the sympathy came 15 years too late.

K-9 · 01-06-2010 01:35AM

Biggins wrote: »

* Did bertie give any sympathy for the public money he wasted at the tribunals, when he was leader (not to mention in the years under Charlie as finance man) ?
* Did Bertie give any sympathy for the many cock-ups in the running of the state under his direction?
* Did Harney give any sympathy for Crumlin Hospital as she and FF voted in the Dail this year, to deny it the funds to stay fully operational?
* Did Cowen show any sympathy to the thousands effected in 3 communities currently being denied their right to an elected representative?
* Did Willie O'Dea show sympathy for the cutting of many items/funds/equipment/Gardi numbers?

Want me to go on...?

You want to talk about croc' tears? Fianna Fail have been shedding them for 24 years now when convenient so that don't wash!
The public DO sometimes see people honestly admit mistakes sometimes and give sympathy in response. Nothing wrong with that.

If Bertie, Harney, O'Dea etc. was on the Frontline about their wife/husband, would you not point out the damage they did?

Biggins · 01-06-2010 01:40AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

To all the above, no.

But if they did, would it change your opinion of them, or more importantly, would it make any difference - especially if, as in the case of Noonan, their sympathy only came about as a result of something that adversley affected them personally & not because they felt sorry for the suffering caused by their f*cking over of other's people's lives just to serve their own self interests & their desire for power?

To all the above, I would think, 'no'.

Especially if the sympathy came 15 years too late.

I don't expect you to believe me but my answer would be "yes".
I wouldn't automatically think the sun would shine out of any of their backsides but in fairness to anyone that I oppose, I would (and have done if one checks my posts) give credit where it is due and in cases sympathy (as in the case of our present minister with own person health problems).

Lets not forget too quickly once again before we all rush to jump on this one man - he held office for at most, a couple of years (out of 26).
How many mistakes were made by FF health ministers in the those other 23 years and will we see the same amount of anger and venom suddenly be also spoke of towards those others, in the same topic of what went on in the Health office?

...but hell no, let quietly forget about those 23/24 years, hold THEM accountable and take advantage of the other few years were of course FG was/is all to blame for everything that wrong in the health system! :rolleyes:

...And NO, I am NOT a FG supporter.

K-9 · 01-06-2010 01:48AM

Biggins wrote: »

I don't expect you to believe me but my answer would be "yes".
I wouldn't automatically think the sun would shine out of any of their backsides but in fairness to anyone that I oppose, I would (and have done if one checks my posts) give credit where it is due and in cases sympathy (as in the case of our present minister with own person health problems).

Lets not forget too quickly once again before we all rush to jump on this one man - he held office for at most, a couple of years (out of 26).
How many mistakes were made by FF health ministers in the those other 23 years and will we see the same amount of anger and venom suddenly be also spoke of towards those others, in the same topic of what went on in the Health office?

...but hell no, let quietly forget about those 23/24 years, hold THEM accountable and take advantage of the other few years were of course FG was/is all to blame for everything that wrong in the health system! :rolleyes:

...And NO, I am NOT a FG supporter.

Well I'm sorry. I can't forget the McColes.

Biggins · 01-06-2010 01:50AM

K-9 wrote: »

Well I'm sorry. I can't forget the McColes.

Now should you (or I).
That way those responsible can be held accountable at the very least.

K-9 · 01-06-2010 01:51AM

Some more info on it:
THE STATE AND BRIDGET Mccole - The Irish Times - Sat, Aug 02, 1997

starbelgrade · 01-06-2010 01:53AM

Biggins wrote: »

I don't expect you to believe me but my answer would be "yes".
I wouldn't automatically think the sun would shine out of any of their backsides but in fairness to anyone that I oppose, I would (and have done if one checks my posts) give credit where it is due and in cases sympathy (as in the case of our present minister with own person health problems).

Some credit is due to the man, but I will only give him full credit if he comes out with a full & honest apology to all the victims of the blood scandal & to the families of those who have suffered & those who have since died.

I have sympathy for the man in his present situation - that goes without saying - but I have more sympathy for others more deserving of it.

Biggins wrote: »

Lets not forget too quickly once again before we all rush to jump on this one man - he held office for at most, a couple of years (out of 26).
How many mistakes were made by FF health ministers in the those other 23 years and will we see the same amount of anger and venom suddenly be also spoke of towards those others, in the same topic of what went on in the Health office?

In his few years in office he did enough damage to last a lifetime, as did many FF ministers, regardless of the length of their terms in office. I have no less anger in my heart for them, but I can only vent it on one at a time as the topic / thread arises!

Biggins wrote: »

...but hell no, let quietly forget about those 23/24 years and take advantage of the other few years were of course FG was/is all to blame! :rolleyes:

I'm like an elephant - I never forget, so save your rolling eyes for someone else!!!

Biggins wrote: »

...And NO, I am NOT a FG supporter.

I know that - you're a Fianna Fail man through & through.

K-9 · 01-06-2010 01:55AM

Biggins wrote: »

Now should you (or I).
That way those responsible can be held accountable at the very least.

Biggins, my Dad died of Alzheimers in January of this year.

I fully empathise with the ex Minister and what he is going through.

Still. He has questions to answer regarding that case and he never answered them. I wish he showed the same compassion towards the McColes.

Biggins · 01-06-2010 01:58AM

K-9 wrote: »

Biggins, my Dad died of Alzheimers in January of this year.
I fully empathise with the ex Minister and what he is going through.

Still. He has questions to answer regarding that case and he never answered them. I wish he showed the same compassion towards the McColes.

No argument here in that regard.
At least hopefully he has seen the light - and as the OP has stated, exposed "a spark of humanity".
I wish others would show that too instead of shutting down health units such as cancer units, nursing homes etc presently...

Biggins · 01-06-2010 02:08AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

I'm like an elephant - I never forget, so save your rolling eyes for someone else!!!

I'm saving them most of the time for my wife when she is giving out to me!

starbelgrade wrote: »

I know that - you're a Fianna Fail man through & through.

Has hell just frozen over!

K-9 · 01-06-2010 02:11AM

Biggins wrote: »

No argument here in that regard.
At least hopefully he has seen the light - and as the OP has stated, exposed "a spark of humanity".
I wish others would show that too instead of shutting down health units such as cancer units, nursing homes etc presently...

Unfortunately we have an EX Minister showing no compassion towards probably his biggest mistake in Govt. on a TV show getting compassion about his personal circumstances.

He made a decision with the McColes, his department decided to pursue the McColes. Truth and compassion was secondary to saving the state money. No different to now. There is nothing to learn here.

Biggins · 01-06-2010 02:29AM

K-9 wrote: »

Unfortunately we have an EX Minister showing no compassion towards probably his biggest mistake in Govt. on a TV show getting compassion about his personal circumstances.

He made a decision with the McColes, his department decided to pursue the McColes. Truth and compassion was secondary to saving the state money. No different to now. There is nothing to learn here.

...except that maybe a glimmer of hope or a door of mental light has cracked open that might persuade him to justify/explain his actions of the day, to the decisions he made then?

We can only hope.

Politician-At last a spark of humanity

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