Politician-At last a spark of humanity

fergiesfolly

Fine Gael TD, Michael Noonan was just on The Frontline speaking eloquently and sometimes emotionally about his wife, who suffers from alzheimers. Don't think any more or less of him than I do of most politicians, but it was a nice change to see one them being passionate about something, bar getting the better of their opposing parties. They should bring some of this emotion to their work. P.s I wish his wife all the best. Its a horrible, wicked disease.

Kelda09

I agree, it's nice to see another side to them, though I don't think anybody would wish alzhiemers on his wife. I think he spoke eloquently on the matter and hopefully it might help people to see the reality of the disease. What struck me most was when he spoke about not wanting to lock the doors, but as a result his wife wandered off. A family member has alzhiemers and the same situation was faced. It's good to see that Alzhiemers is getting highlighted, and hopefully it might make people in power have a re-think about the facilities available.

On another note, I never thought that I would find Pat Kenny to be a good presenter, but the last two weeks on Frontline has made me re-evaluate my opinion of him. Perhaps Im getting old :eek:

starbelgrade

Would this be the same Michael Noonan Noonan who was Minister for Health when, after the death of Brigid McCole - who was one of the victims of the blood products contaminated with Hepatitis C - suggested rather callously in the Dail, that McCole's solicitors should have persuaded their client to go to the government-established compensation tribunal rather than to the courts?

The same Noonan who repeatedly tried to maintain that the state and its agency, the Blood Transfusion Service Board (which was directly responsible for the scandal), were "separate actors" in defending the legal actions prompted by the contamination of the Anti-D blood products?

The same Noonan who, for a crucial 18 months, effectively sat on an opinion from its top legal adviser, Attorney General Dermot Gleeson, that the BTSB had been negligent in relation to the manufacture of Anti-D both in 1976/77 and again in 1991-94?

And now he's on television crying over his own personal misfotunes when, as Minister of Health, it was clear that he didn't give a damn about the misfortunes of others?

It may been a spark of humanity that he has shown tonight, but the sad thing about this, is that he could not have afforded the same spark of humanity to others when he had the power & position to do something about it.

Biggins

Saw it tonight. Deeply moving stuff.
I wish some blinkered FF supporters who think the other side is just made up of evil, saw it too.
It would have given them an inkling as to the fuller picture that they are not conveniently seeing by their fanaticism.

Yes starbelgrade, it would be the same man and in the interview that is available on RTE website to view shortly, he admits having seen the "other side" - having been there, he acknowledge more so that changes clearly need to be made to the health system.
At least he admitted it. I wish a few more politicians would be so honest, either side of the Dail.

Ouijaboard

starbelgrade wrote: »

Would this be the same Michael Noonan Noonan who was Minister for Health when, after the death of Brigid McCole - who was one of the victims of the blood products contaminated with Hepatitis C - suggested rather callously in the Dail, that McCole's solicitors should have persuaded their client to go to the government-established compensation tribunal rather than to the courts?

The same Noonan who repeatedly tried to maintain that the state and its agency, the Blood Transfusion Service Board (which was directly responsible for the scandal), were "separate actors" in defending the legal actions prompted by the contamination of the Anti-D blood products?

The same Noonan who, for a crucial 18 months, effectively sat on an opinion from its top legal adviser, Attorney General Dermot Gleeson, that the BTSB had been negligent in relation to the manufacture of Anti-D both in 1976/77 and again in 1991-94?

And now he's on television crying over his own personal misfotunes when, as Minister of Health, it was clear that he didn't give a damn about the misfortunes of others?

It may been a spark of humanity that he has shown tonight, but the sad thing about this, is that he could not have afforded the same spark of humanity to others when he had the power & position to do something about it.

And he admitted tonight he made some serious mistakes when he was minister for health....which is more than can be said for some of the current idiots!

Bonito

cougar1 wrote: »

And he admitted tonight he made some serious mistakes when he was minister for health....which is more than can be said for some of the current idiots!

Ah here! Mary might eat enough to feed a few people but she's still only one person hippo!

fergiesfolly

cougar1 wrote: »

And he admitted tonight he made some serious mistakes when he was minister for health....which is more than can be said for some of the current idiots!

Its unfortunate, but most politicians sole purpose is to get re-elected. It would make for a much better system of government if the personal experiences of elected officials and ordinary citizens alike were used to make the decisions that affect us all. Michael Noonans experience could be of huge use to Mary Harney and the HSE if they could look past their own self interests.

Ouijaboard

Bonito wrote: »

Ah here! Mary might eat enough to feed a few people but she's still only one person hippo!

I meant Cowen et al could do with showing a bit of that sincerity and and lay the cards on the table and say they fcuked up in other depts.....Bertie and McCreevy could do with giving the nation a few apologies aswell!

OPENROAD

Kelda09 wrote: »

It's good to see that Alzhiemers is getting highlighted, and hopefully it might make people in power have a re-think about the facilities available.

Not just facilities but actual funding into a cure( this is a worldwide issue) which at current is an absolute disgrace.:mad:

Ouijaboard

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Its unfortunate, but most politicians sole purpose is to get re-elected. It would make for a much better system of government if the personal experiences of elected officials and ordinary citizens alike were used to make the decisions that affect us all. Michael Noonans experience could be of huge use to Mary Harney and the HSE if they could look past their own self interests.

Agree with this idea that he could be of huge help in this regard, it will never happen though. It was just nice for once to see a politician just be completely honest and without agenda come on tv and not try to spin us the usual yarns.
He did have it particularly though judging by the fact that his wife had the early onset variety and even before reaching pension age has lost all ability to function.

starbelgrade

Biggins wrote: »

Yes starbelgrade, it would be the same man and in the interview that is available on RTE website to view shortly, he admits having seen the "other side" - having been there, he acknowledge more so that changes clearly need to be made to the health system.
At least he admitted it. I wish a few more politicians would be so honest, either side of the Dail.

So Michael Noonan, after over 10 years of denying any resposibility in the blood scandal, finally admits some responsibility for his actions.

Finally, but only after his wife contracts alzheimers. Finally, but only after his life is affected, does he suddenly convert to honesty.

Finally, does he realise.

Well, Mr.Noonan, finally, is too f*cking late.

Kelda09

OPENROAD wrote: »

Not just facilities but actual funding into a cure( this is a worldwide issue) which at current is an absolute disgrace.:mad:

Believe me, I totally agree with you, but unfortunately, for most people that are already diagnosed with alzhiemers at the moment the sad reality is that even if a viable, working cure is found, by the time it's passed the safety reviews, tests, and checks and then goes through the medical trials it will be too late to be of a real benefit for those who are currently suffering. I don't mean to sound callous by saying that, it's just that its extremely unlikely that any cure that is developed is going to undo the damage that has already been done, more than likely something will be found soon (I HOPE) that will stop the disease in it's tracks at the stage where it is diagnosed, preventing further deterioration. That is why I think the facilities need to be looked at and examined.

Also, I really don't think that disgrace is a strong enough word, But unfortunately, I don't think there is any word that is strong enough to convey the anger:mad:

aDeener

Biggins wrote: »

Saw it tonight. Deeply moving stuff.
I wish some blinkered FF supporters who think the other side is just made up of evil, saw it too.
It would have given them an inkling as to the fuller picture that they are not conveniently seeing by their fanaticism.

Yes starbelgrade, it would be the same man and in the interview that is available on RTE website to view shortly, he admits having seen the "other side" - having been there, he acknowledge more so that changes clearly need to be made to the health system.
At least he admitted it. I wish a few more politicians would be so honest, either side of the Dail.

its clearly you who is blinkered :rolleyes:

all is rosy in the garden just because he admitted it. god knows what you would have come out by now with had starbelgrades post been about an FF minister for health.... :rolleyes:

recylingbin

Of course he was passionate, it concerned him directly.
Just like Flynn was passionate about how his expenses shouldn't have been up for public ridicule.

I wouldn't wish alzheimers on anyone and it was good to hear an eloquent person given the time to discuss it. But her illness doesn't make him a better person.

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

Saw it tonight. Deeply moving stuff.
I wish some blinkered FF supporters who think the other side is just made up of evil, saw it too.
It would have given them an inkling as to the fuller picture that they are not conveniently seeing by their fanaticism.

Yes starbelgrade, it would be the same man and in the interview that is available on RTE website to view shortly, he admits having seen the "other side" - having been there, he acknowledge more so that changes clearly need to be made to the health system.
At least he admitted it. I wish a few more politicians would be so honest, either side of the Dail.

My thoughts are with him. I can empathise. My Dad went through what his wife did.


Did he mention the McCole family? It would have made it more touching.

starbelgrade

aDeener wrote: »

its clearly you who is blinkered :rolleyes:

all is rosy in the garden just because he admitted it. god knows what you would have come out by now with had starbelgrades post been about an FF minister for health.... :rolleyes:

Very true... If it were today's news & Mary Harney was Minister of Health, presiding over the blood scandal, gulity of hiding key evidence & forcing victims to go through the court system to get compensation, some of whom were on their death beds, there would be zero sympathy for her, no matter what her personal circumstances were.

K-9

starbelgrade wrote: »

Very true... If it were today's news & Mary Harney was Minister of Health, presiding over the blood scandal, gulity of hiding key evidence & forcing victims to go through the court system to get compensation, some of whom were on their death beds, there would be zero sympathy for her, no matter what her personal circumstances were.

Good point. I suppose seeing as it is 15 years ago, people forget.

OPENROAD

Kelda09 wrote: »

Believe me, I totally agree with you, but unfortunately, for most people that are already diagnosed with alzhiemers at the moment the sad reality is that even if a viable, working cure is found, by the time it's passed the safety reviews, tests, and checks and then goes through the medical trials it will be too late to be of a real benefit for those who are currently suffering. I don't mean to sound callous by saying that, it's just that its extremely unlikely that any cure that is developed is going to undo the damage that has already been done, more than likely something will be found soon (I HOPE) that will stop the disease in it's tracks at the stage where it is diagnosed, preventing further deterioration. That is why I think the facilities need to be looked at and examined.

Also, I really don't think that disgrace is a strong enough word, But unfortunately, I don't think there is any word that is strong enough to convey the anger:mad:

Oh I know, sadly as you say even when they do make a breakthrough it will be years before a drug is available, they really do need more funding, not wanting to take away from any other illness out there but the funding towards a cure is tiny.

You are right of course, more funding also needed to support carers to enable them to keep the person in their own house for as long as possible doing this really does help the person with the illness.

Kelda09

recylingbin wrote: »

I wouldn't wish alzheimers on anyone and it was good to hear an eloquent person given the time to discuss it. But her illness doesn't make him a better person.

I don't think anybody ever said it made him a better person, but if it helps to get people thinking about alzhiemers and the reality of the disease then good and well. The unpleasant reality is that there is more likely to be newspaper coverage and talk on the radio about alzhiemers and the needs in relation to it through Michael Noonan going on front-line than there would be from other people going on. In saying that, please don't get me wrong, the people on front-line last week were brilliant, eloquent, moving and got their point across and they should be applauded for it, however, public figures are more likely to get paper column inches, and if Michael Noonan is willing to speak out more, then he could be in the position to be of help, whatever political party he was in.

Biggins

aDeener wrote: »

its clearly you who is blinkered :rolleyes:
all is rosy in the garden just because he admitted it. god knows what you would have come out by now with had starbelgrades post been about an FF minister for health.... :rolleyes:

All is not rosy - and he admitted it. He admitted his failings too.
While I don't lend him my support just because of one admission, I do extend to him some sympathy in regards to the condition of his wife.
Anyone with a shred of humanity would do so.
I suspect by your blindness to Fianna Fail, yours is lacking for you only see and grasp political opportunity to shoot any opposition down.

I have already previously given out about the state of health care in this country despite whos in the seat - for personal reasons alone, my daughter.

..And lets not forget that in the last 26 years of government - 23 of them were under the rule of Fianna Fail!
Talk about throwing stones in glasshouses! You really want to go there?

K-9 wrote: »

My thoughts are with him. I can empathise. My Dad went through what his wife did.
Did he mention the McCole family? It would have made it more touching.

No, he kept the interview personal for the sake of the alzheimers organisation that he is trying to help, one step at a time.

starbelgrade

Kelda09 wrote: »

The unpleasant reality is that there is more likely to be newspaper coverage and talk on the radio about alzhiemers and the needs in relation to it through Michael Noonan going on front-line than there would be from other people going on.

Of all the people to pick as a poster boy spokesman for people suffering from illnesses, Michael Noonan is the last person you'd go for if you were looking for some positive PR.

OPENROAD

starbelgrade wrote: »

Of all the people to pick as a poster boy spokesman for people suffering from illnesses, Michael Noonan is the last person you'd go for if you were looking for some positive PR.

Actually the more public figures whether they be TD's MP'S,writers actors etc.... the better imo. Its not just about PR, but rather to raise real awareness, have it out in the media constantly.

recylingbin

Kelda09 wrote: »

I don't think anybody ever said it made him a better person, but if it helps to get people thinking about alzhiemers and the reality of the disease then good and well. The unpleasant reality is that there is more likely to be newspaper coverage and talk on the radio about alzhiemers and the needs in relation to it through Michael Noonan going on front-line than there would be from other people going on. In saying that, please don't get me wrong, the people on front-line last week were brilliant, eloquent, moving and got their point across and they should be applauded for it, however, public figures are more likely to get paper column inches, and if Michael Noonan is willing to speak out more, then he could be in the position to be of help, whatever political party he was in.

I also didn't say he was a bad person. I agree with you. But it's easy for Michael Noonan to say these things now. It affects him now.

But regarding him directly, we should remember how gutless he was as minister for health. Not only was he worse than useless, but he actually caused alot of harm. When he had his big chance to make things better, he put his own interests first.

I do empathise with him with respect to his wife's condition though. As I said, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Kelda09

OPENROAD wrote: »

Oh I know, sadly as you say even when they do make a breakthrough it will be years before a drug is available, they really do need more funding, not wanting to take away from any other illness out there but the funding towards a cure is tiny.

You are right of course, more funding also needed to support carers to enable them to keep the person in their own house for as long as possible doing this really does help the person with the illness.

Funding?? What funding? The health system at the moment gives barely anything, and even though it is a very worthy organisation, the alzhiemers society is unable to help in a lot of cases. For example, my relative was only offered 1 hour per week help from the alzhiemers society, this is a man who could barely walk, was rapidly loosing his speech, would fall over very easily, and who needed two people to get him out of bed and was in incontinence pads! and he was offered 1 hour per week. With more help out there he, and many more like him could help him stay at home, which as you say really does help the person.

I just cant wait for the day that a cure is developed, I for one will be most definitely celebrating in thanks for all the lives that will be saved, not just the lives of the people who would otherwise develop the disease, but also for the family members who would be giving up their time, their love, their energy and ultimately huge chunks of their lives to help care for their loved one.

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

No, he kept the interview personal for the sake of the alzheimers organisation that he is trying to help, one step at a time.

Did the McCole case not affect him personally?

Now that is sad. The one case that mars his ministerialship (is that a word?) and he couldn't acknowledge it?

Look, I sympathise. I know how alzheimers works, I can emapthise. Hepatitis C is very serious too.

Biggins

recylingbin wrote: »

I also didn't say he was a bad person. I agree with you. But it's easy for Michael Noonan to say these things now. It affects him now.

But regarding him directly, we should remember how gutless he was as minister for health. Not only was he worse than useless, but he actually caused a lot of harm. When he had his big chance to make things better, he put his own interests first.

Absolutely agree. It seems he has started to learn his lessons though and openly admitted it in something you rarely see in our politicians, some vestiges of honesty.

OPENROAD

Kelda09 wrote: »

Funding?? What funding? The health system at the moment gives barely anything, and even though it is a very worthy organisation, the alzhiemers society is unable to help in a lot of cases. For example, my relative was only offered 1 hour per week help from the alzhiemers society, this is a man who could barely walk, was rapidly loosing his speech, would fall over very easily, and who needed two people to get him out of bed and was in incontinence pads! and he was offered 1 hour per week. With more help out there he, and many more like him could help him stay at home, which as you say really does help the person.

I just cant wait for the day that a cure is developed, I for one will be most definitely celebrating in thanks for all the lives that will be saved, not just the lives of the people who would otherwise develop the disease, but also for the family members who would be giving up their time, their love, their energy and ultimately huge chunks of their lives to help care for their loved one.

Oh I know, thats the point, it really is the forgotten illness, people think its just about memory loss and you only get it in your late 70's 80's etc.. but its far more than that, the memory loss is just a small small part, people really don't know the half of it, I find it so hard to understand why it does not get more funding

Kelda09

recylingbin wrote: »

I also didn't say he was a bad person. I agree with you. But it's easy for Michael Noonan to say these things now. It affects him now.

But regarding him directly, we should remember how gutless he was as minister for health. Not only was he worse than useless, but he actually caused alot of harm. When he had his big chance to make things better, he put his own interests first.

I do empathise with him with respect to his wife's condition though. As I said, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I'm sorry Recyclingbin, I just picked you up wrong. Genuinely, no offence meant.:o I can't really recall him as Minister, but I'll admit it's only fairly recently I really started considering politics. after reading another post about the blood transfusion scandal though it seems as though he definately didn't have much compassion. If only he had this insight back then (without his wife developing the disease, ideally) then he might have made a difference. if only life worked the way we wish it did

recylingbin

Kelda09 wrote: »

I'm sorry Recyclingbin, I just picked you up wrong.

No prob, I must have picked you up wrong too, I felt no malice in your post.

starbelgrade

Biggins wrote: »

Absolutely agree. It seems he has started to learn his lessons though and openly admitted it in something you rarely see in our politicians, some vestiges of honesty.

There are plenty of honest politicians in the country. The day people realise this & pay less lip service to those who admit their failings a decade later and only when a personal issue affects them, will be a much better day for the country.

K-9

Kelda09 wrote: »

I'm sorry Recyclingbin, I just picked you up wrong. Genuinely, no offence meant.:o I can't really recall him as Minister, but I'll admit it's only fairly recently I really started considering politics. after reading another post about the blood transfusion scandal though it seems as though he definately didn't have much compassion. If only he had this insight back then (without his wife developing the disease, ideally) then he might have made a difference. if only life worked the way we wish it did

Ideally we'd have compassion while being a Minister, but unfortunately, it seems a big ask!

Kelda09

OPENROAD wrote: »

Oh I know, thats the point, it really is the forgotten illness, people think its just about memory loss and you only get it in your late 70's 80's etc.. but its far more than that, the memory loss is just a small small part, people really don't know the half of it, I find it so hard to understand why it does not get more funding

That's exactly it. And it's so hard to explain to people. The feeling you get when you have to help to change a loved ones incontinence pad, or help them shower etc, it changes the whole relationship. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like for somebody's son or daughter to have to go through that, and if there was funding there, they wouldn't have too.
Ill never forget the day I was talking to a friend and told her that my relative didn't know who I was until I reminded him. How I just felt like crying (or screaming!) and she just couldn't comprehend my sadness,as he recalled me after I reminded him, but too me that was the day the disease became final, and irreversible. The fact that Someone he saw everyday, used to know so well, knew everything about, was unknown to him at that stage. Granted he recalled me after he was reminded, but he soon stopped recalling me, no matter how often I told him who I was. THAT'S the stuff that would fuel the funding if people could feel that sadness and the frustration
God, sorry,I sound like a total moaner. I apologise for wittering on. I promise Ill stop now:o

Biggins

starbelgrade wrote: »

There are plenty of honest politicians in the country. The day people realise this & pay less lip service to those who admit their failings a decade later and only when a personal issue affects them, will be a much better day for the country.

At lest some of them admit their failings.
Some still in power after many, many equal years won't admit theirs - and I don't mean that just to be on the FF side.

Its a damn good start that a man (or woman) can openly admit that they did wrong for the 2/3 (?) years their held a particular office.
As FF are in power now for near 24 years now in total, how many of them would admit same by the way - on camera or off?

I give credit and sympathy where it is due - either side of the isle for honesty stated.

Kelda09

K-9 wrote: »

Ideally we'd have compassion while being a Minister, but unfortunately, it seems a big ask!

It definitely seems that way. But have faith, things can only get better!! They can't get much worse, can they.....:rolleyes:

Kelda09

starbelgrade wrote: »

Of all the people to pick as a poster boy spokesman for people suffering from illnesses, Michael Noonan is the last person you'd go for if you were looking for some positive PR.

You know the old saying "there's no such thing as bad publicity....." If it gets the topic out there, then good and well, hopefully it'll get people talking and keep the subject out there.

OPENROAD

Kelda09 wrote: »

That's exactly it. And it's so hard to explain to people. The feeling you get when you have to help to change a loved ones incontinence pad, or help them shower etc, it changes the whole relationship. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like for somebody's son or daughter to have to go through that, and if there was funding there, they wouldn't have too.
Ill never forget the day I was talking to a friend and told her that my relative didn't know who I was until I reminded him. How I just felt like crying (or screaming!) and she just couldn't comprehend my sadness,as he recalled me after I reminded him, but too me that was the day the disease became final, and irreversible. The fact that Someone he saw everyday, used to know so well, knew everything about, was unknown to him at that stage. Granted he recalled me after he was reminded, but he soon stopped recalling me, no matter how often I told him who I was. THAT'S the stuff that would fuel the funding if people could feel that sadness and the frustration
God, sorry,I sound like a total moaner. I apologise for wittering on. I promise Ill stop now:o

Hey no the more people that talk about it the better, and looking at Ireland, we are going to have a HUGE aging population in the nxt 20 years or so, this is going to be even a bigger problem then it is now if they have not found something to stop it in its tracks.

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

At lest some of them admit their failings.
Some still in power after many, many equal years won't admit theirs - and I don't mean that just to be on the FF side.

Its a damn good start that a man (or woman) can openly admit that they did wrong for the 2/3 (?) years their held a particular office.
As FF are in power now for near 24 years now in total, how many of them would admit same by the way - on camera or off?

I give credit and sympathy where it is due - either side of the isle for honesty stated.

Did he mention the McColes? Crocodile tears!

Indeed, one could say he was using personal experience, his wife, to try and appear sympathetic and a victim.

FG will use this. I remember FG in Govt. I remember the McCole case. I remember the cuts they made and the denial of the McColes and the Hepatitis victims.

If people think FG are the cure to the current problems, I'll highlight it.

If FG were the cure, Mr. Noonan would have mentioned the McColes. The fact that he didn't means we will get more of the same with FG.

oppenheimer1

Biggins wrote: »

Saw it tonight. Deeply moving stuff.
I wish some blinkered FF supporters who think the other side is just made up of evil, saw it too.
It would have given them an inkling as to the fuller picture that they are not conveniently seeing by their fanaticism.

Yes starbelgrade, it would be the same man and in the interview that is available on RTE website to view shortly, he admits having seen the "other side" - having been there, he acknowledge more so that changes clearly need to be made to the health system.
At least he admitted it. I wish a few more politicians would be so honest, either side of the Dail.

Sometimes we forget that these people are humans too. Too often they are portrayed by the media as self serving emotionless drones who's only purpose is to make everyone else's life more miserable.

It then takes a display of emotion, such as Micheal Noonan tonight or Brian Lenihans interview with Miriam O'Callaghan before Christmas to help us remember, these are just ordinary people with big responsibilities.

Kelda09

OPENROAD wrote: »

Hey no the more people that talk about it the better, and looking at Ireland, we are going to have a HUGE aging population in the nxt 20 years or so, this is going to be even a bigger problem then it is now if they have not found something to stop it in its tracks.

Exactly, and add the early onset alzhiemers to the members of the ageing population as well. :eek: All we can do is stay positive, and work towords better understanding and knowledge.

starbelgrade

Kelda09 wrote: »

You know the old saying "there's no such thing as bad publicity....." If it gets the topic out there, then good and well, hopefully it'll get people talking and keep the subject out there.

Some more endearing words on our lovely Mr.Noonan, from the Irish Examiner;

The Brigid McCole case effectively destroyed the political career of former Fine Gael leader Michael Noonan and remains one of the biggest health scandals in the history of the State.

Mrs McCole died in October, 1996, from liver failure, after being infected with hepatitis C through contaminated anti-D blood product. She was survived by her husband, Brianie, and their 12 children.

After her death, her family called on Michael Noonan to resign his position as Minister for Health, claiming Mrs McCole was "threatened" for pursuing her compensation claim through the courts. Brigid's daughter, Brid McCole, said the family wanted Mr Noonan to explain why the State threatened her mother in a letter.

The Blood Transfusion Services Boards's solicitors wrote to Mrs McCole's solicitors on September 20, 12 days before she died, threatening to "seek all additional costs" from that date if she proceeded with her action.

The letter warned: "If your client proceeds with her claim for aggravated and exemplary/punitive damages against our client and fails, then our client will rely on this letter in an application to the court against your client for all costs relating to the claim for such damages and for an order setting off any costs to which your client might otherwise be entitled."

The Finlay tribunal found that this letter was shown to Michael Noonan before it was sent and was not altered.

15 years later we get a shred of honesty from a man who was a disgrace to his position, a man who was driven purely by his own self interests.

He may well become a spokesman for the issue, but I feel that the more he speaks up about the issue, the more of his history will be dragged up by those who - like me - still believe that he is driven only by his own self interests.

Had his wife not fallen ill, he would still be denying his mistakes, wrong doings & the unbelievable hurt he caused to others.

Like I said, Alzheimers could do with anybody but him promoting awareness. To me, it's akin to Cardinal Sean Brady promoting a "Stranger Danger" child safety campaign.

K-9

starbelgrade wrote: »

Some more endearing words on our lovely Mr.Noonan, from the Irish Examiner;



15 years later we get a shred of honesty from a man who was a disgrace to his position, a man who was driven purely by his own self interests.

He may well become a spokesman for the issue, but I feel that the more he speaks up about the issue, the more of his history will be dragged up by those who - like me - still believe that he is driven only by his own self interests.

Had his wife not fallen ill, he would still be denying his mistakes, wrong doings & the unbelievable hurt he caused to others.

Like I said, Alzheimers could do with anybody but him promoting awareness. To me, it's akin to Cardinal Sean Brady promoting a "Stranger Danger" child safety campaign.

Thank you for that post. I've posted that before to get the full enormity of the case. There was an RTE series based on the events that went on.

Biggins

K-9 wrote: »

Did he mention the McColes? Crocodile tears!
Indeed, one could say he was using personal experience, his wife, to try and appear sympathetic and a victim.
FG will use this. I remember FG in Govt. I remember the McCole case. I remember the cuts they made and the denial of the McColes and the Hepatitis victims.
If people think FG are the cure to the current problems, I'll highlight it.
If FG were the cure, Mr. Noonan would have mentioned the McColes. The fact that he didn't means we will get more of the same with FG.

* Did bertie give any sympathy for the public money he wasted at the tribunals, when he was leader (not to mention in the years under Charlie as finance man) ?
* Did Bertie give any sympathy for the many cock-ups in the running of the state under his direction?
* Did Harney give any sympathy for Crumlin Hospital as she and FF voted in the Dail this year, to deny it the funds to stay fully operational?
* Did Cowen show any sympathy to the thousands effected in 3 communities currently being denied their right to an elected representative?
* Did Willie O'Dea show sympathy for the cutting of many items/funds/equipment/Gardi numbers?

Want me to go on...?

You want to talk about croc' tears? Fianna Fail have been shedding them for 24 years now when convenient so that don't wash!
The public DO sometimes see people honestly admit mistakes sometimes and give sympathy in response. Nothing wrong with that.

Kelda09

starbelgrade wrote: »

.

He may well become a spokesman for the issue, but I feel that the more he speaks up about the issue, the more of his history will be dragged up by those who - like me - still believe that he is driven only by his own self interests.

Thank you for that post. I've posted that before to get the full enormity of the case. There was an RTE series based on the events that went on.

Sorry can't properly work multi-quote! I just want to say that I don't mean to infer that any of that is cancelled out or that it is less important by him talking about his current situation. It is terrible that any of that happened and ideally he should be made to account for his actions and face the reality of what happened.

starbelgrade

Biggins wrote: »

* Did bertie give any sympathy for the public money he wasted at the tribunals when he was leader (not to mention in the years under Charlie as finance man) ?
* Did Bertie give any sympathy for the many cock-up in the running of the state under his direction?
* Did Harney give any sympathy for Crumlin Hospital as she and FF voted in the Dail this year, to deny it the funds to stay fully operational?
* Did Cowen show any sympathy to the thousands effected in 3 communities currently being denied their right to an elected representative?
* Did Willie O'Dea show sympathy for the cutting of many items/funds/equipment/Gardi numbers?

To all the above, no.

But if they did, would it change your opinion of them, or more importantly, would it make any difference - especially if, as in the case of Noonan, their sympathy only came about as a result of something that adversley affected them personally & not because they felt sorry for the suffering caused by their f*cking over of other's people's lives just to serve their own self interests & their desire for power?

To all the above, I would think, 'no'.

Especially if the sympathy came 15 years too late.

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

* Did bertie give any sympathy for the public money he wasted at the tribunals, when he was leader (not to mention in the years under Charlie as finance man) ?
* Did Bertie give any sympathy for the many cock-ups in the running of the state under his direction?
* Did Harney give any sympathy for Crumlin Hospital as she and FF voted in the Dail this year, to deny it the funds to stay fully operational?
* Did Cowen show any sympathy to the thousands effected in 3 communities currently being denied their right to an elected representative?
* Did Willie O'Dea show sympathy for the cutting of many items/funds/equipment/Gardi numbers?

Want me to go on...?

You want to talk about croc' tears? Fianna Fail have been shedding them for 24 years now when convenient so that don't wash!
The public DO sometimes see people honestly admit mistakes sometimes and give sympathy in response. Nothing wrong with that.

If Bertie, Harney, O'Dea etc. was on the Frontline about their wife/husband, would you not point out the damage they did?

Biggins

starbelgrade wrote: »

To all the above, no.

But if they did, would it change your opinion of them, or more importantly, would it make any difference - especially if, as in the case of Noonan, their sympathy only came about as a result of something that adversley affected them personally & not because they felt sorry for the suffering caused by their f*cking over of other's people's lives just to serve their own self interests & their desire for power?

To all the above, I would think, 'no'.

Especially if the sympathy came 15 years too late.

I don't expect you to believe me but my answer would be "yes".
I wouldn't automatically think the sun would shine out of any of their backsides but in fairness to anyone that I oppose, I would (and have done if one checks my posts) give credit where it is due and in cases sympathy (as in the case of our present minister with own person health problems).

Lets not forget too quickly once again before we all rush to jump on this one man - he held office for at most, a couple of years (out of 26).
How many mistakes were made by FF health ministers in the those other 23 years and will we see the same amount of anger and venom suddenly be also spoke of towards those others, in the same topic of what went on in the Health office?

...but hell no, let quietly forget about those 23/24 years, hold THEM accountable and take advantage of the other few years were of course FG was/is all to blame for everything that wrong in the health system! :rolleyes:

...And NO, I am NOT a FG supporter.

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

I don't expect you to believe me but my answer would be "yes".
I wouldn't automatically think the sun would shine out of any of their backsides but in fairness to anyone that I oppose, I would (and have done if one checks my posts) give credit where it is due and in cases sympathy (as in the case of our present minister with own person health problems).

Lets not forget too quickly once again before we all rush to jump on this one man - he held office for at most, a couple of years (out of 26).
How many mistakes were made by FF health ministers in the those other 23 years and will we see the same amount of anger and venom suddenly be also spoke of towards those others, in the same topic of what went on in the Health office?

...but hell no, let quietly forget about those 23/24 years, hold THEM accountable and take advantage of the other few years were of course FG was/is all to blame for everything that wrong in the health system! :rolleyes:

...And NO, I am NOT a FG supporter.

Well I'm sorry. I can't forget the McColes.

Biggins

K-9 wrote: »

Well I'm sorry. I can't forget the McColes.

Now should you (or I).
That way those responsible can be held accountable at the very least.

K-9

Some more info on it:
THE STATE AND BRIDGET Mccole - The Irish Times - Sat, Aug 02, 1997

starbelgrade

Biggins wrote: »

I don't expect you to believe me but my answer would be "yes".
I wouldn't automatically think the sun would shine out of any of their backsides but in fairness to anyone that I oppose, I would (and have done if one checks my posts) give credit where it is due and in cases sympathy (as in the case of our present minister with own person health problems).

Some credit is due to the man, but I will only give him full credit if he comes out with a full & honest apology to all the victims of the blood scandal & to the families of those who have suffered & those who have since died.

I have sympathy for the man in his present situation - that goes without saying - but I have more sympathy for others more deserving of it.

Biggins wrote: »

Lets not forget too quickly once again before we all rush to jump on this one man - he held office for at most, a couple of years (out of 26).
How many mistakes were made by FF health ministers in the those other 23 years and will we see the same amount of anger and venom suddenly be also spoke of towards those others, in the same topic of what went on in the Health office?

In his few years in office he did enough damage to last a lifetime, as did many FF ministers, regardless of the length of their terms in office. I have no less anger in my heart for them, but I can only vent it on one at a time as the topic / thread arises!

Biggins wrote: »

...but hell no, let quietly forget about those 23/24 years and take advantage of the other few years were of course FG was/is all to blame! :rolleyes:

I'm like an elephant - I never forget, so save your rolling eyes for someone else!!!

Biggins wrote: »

...And NO, I am NOT a FG supporter.

I know that - you're a Fianna Fail man through & through.

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

Now should you (or I).
That way those responsible can be held accountable at the very least.

Biggins, my Dad died of Alzheimers in January of this year.

I fully empathise with the ex Minister and what he is going through.

Still. He has questions to answer regarding that case and he never answered them. I wish he showed the same compassion towards the McColes.