Possible social welfare cuts in Ireland?

rightwingdub · 28-05-2010 11:46PM

irishh_bob wrote: »

i imagine thier are very few wellfare lifer,s in germany

I though Germany was a nanny state when it comes to welfare.

tenchi-fan · 29-05-2010 03:22AM

crossmolinalad wrote:

U all can say what u want but have no left overs of my jsa of 282.-
Hope they never cut it

120 e mortgage
12 e esb
25 e heating oil
31 e phone
20 e broadband
30 e diesel for my car
30 e div insurances (home.life.car.pet)
268 e total weekly

Have a creditcard of 10.000 eu (not in bad depts)
Put my full sw on this card every week and pay my bills with the card
my left over = 12 eu for food
Spent on food 35 eu a week include pet food

So u see nothing stupid doing here but just spend on things i really need
Im on sw for 2 years now and hope to get a job s.a.p
Im willing to work for less than min wages see my ads
Been sick of sitting on my arse the whole day

I hope they do cut it.. that's an absolute disgrace. €282 for sitting on your arse all day with no real expenses other than finding ways to waste money... over €600 a year on phone and broadband! Pet food and pet insurance! And a car - insurance, tax, diesel and repairs.. it sorta reminds me of all those unemployed people who simply MUST have a smart-phone.

I'm employed full-time. My mobile phone bill costs around €15 a month - actually it's a prepaid tesco phone. I can't really afford a car. I don't waste money on pet food or pet insurance.. I don't have a pet. I don't particularly want one either - in part because I am away from home most of the day WORKING. My bus ticket costs €2k a year and the only thing I use it for is getting to work and home again.

I don't know why the government feel the need to pay for people's vices, hobbies, social lives and pets. JSA should be the bare minimum.. perhaps €80.. that way people would have no choice but to find something productive to do for money. And with a lower welfare bill more money could be left in the hands of taxpayers... who can choose to spend it on goods and services (i.e. let the unemployed earn it, rather than the government doing a bad job at playing robin hood)

bernardo mac · 29-05-2010 09:17AM

With you Techni Fan.Too many Welfare soaks in the state including career baby single mothers and career criminals who bleed the country as they feel.

BobbyD10 · 29-05-2010 10:05AM

Some latest news:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0529/welfare.html

29-05-2010 10:37AM

There has been strong reaction to the Social Welfare Bill that proposes to penalise unemployed people who refuse jobs or decline to take up training deemed 'suitable' or 'appropriate'.

Why is there a strong reaction against this? Oh those evil people in gov....wanting people to accept jobs/training and not just sit at home on the dole...bastards.

CoalBucket · 29-05-2010 10:46AM

BobbyD10 wrote: »

Some latest news:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0529/welfare.html

The bill, published yesterday by Government, also proposes to remove the one parent payment when the youngest child reaches 13.
The current cut-off age is 18 or 22 for those in full-time education and satisfying a means test

The idea of the one parent allowance being maintained until the child reached 18 or 22 in full time education was designed to keep children in education.

By reducing the age to thirteen what the government are effectively saying to people is get your children out to work as quickly as possible and get them out of education.

Not that there is any work there in the first place.

thebman · 29-05-2010 10:54AM

crossmolinalad wrote: »

U all can say what u want but have no left overs of my jsa of 282.-
Hope they never cut it

When your used to more its harder to cut, you do of course spend all given to you but I guarantee that if it was cut by 20 euro a week, you'd find a way to make it work by thinking about your purchases more.

At the moment, its possible to save money on the dole. I'm not saying it should be minimum level per month but it should give enough that you can save for something like a dental appointment or doctors visit or other unexpected expenditure as well as basics like food and rent and that is it.

The reason I'm against it for home owners is that they have a major asset worth a lot of money that they can sell if it comes to it and then claim the money renting. Its unreasonable to expect working people like myself that can't afford a house to pay for other peoples mortgages. Its your asset, you pay for it or sell it then come saying you've got nothing.

Its unreasonable to say you have nothing to your name when your sitting on an asset worth over most likely over a hundred thousand euro.

CoalBucket · 29-05-2010 10:56AM

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Why is there a strong reaction against this? Oh those evil people in gov....wanting people to accept jobs/training and not just sit at home on the dole...bastards.

The headline of the article says there is a strong reaction but fails to produce any comment or quotes to back that up.

It does give a comment against the reduction of the age qualification of the one parent payment.

The only comments in relation to the courses were that there was a lack of them and that the proposed reduced PRSI incentive to create employement has not been implemented.

It must have been the liveline producers who wrote that article. All hysteria but no evidence.

thebman · 29-05-2010 11:03AM

CoalBucket wrote: »

The idea of the one parent allowance being maintained until the child reached 18 or 22 in full time education was designed to keep children in education.

By reducing the age to thirteen what the government are effectively saying to people is get your children out to work as quickly as possible and get them out of education.

Not that there is any work there in the first place.

Education is free in Ireland at second level and there are book rental schemes that are affordable in many schools.

irishh_bob · 29-05-2010 11:17AM

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Why is there a strong reaction against this? Oh those evil people in gov....wanting people to accept jobs/training and not just sit at home on the dole...bastards.

you have to look to the source of criticism , wooly liberal do - gooders , you know , the people who are more and more , running this country behind the scenes

flutered · 29-05-2010 11:17AM

thebman wrote: »

Education is free in Ireland at second level and there are book rental schemes that are affordable in many schools.

i guess that you have not school going kids.

RichardAnd · 29-05-2010 11:17AM

BobbyD10 wrote: »

Some latest news:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0529/welfare.html

Harsh measures perhaps but I'm glad to see that they're doing something about people turning down jobs. People can call these heartless but my hat is off to FF for having the balls to do something that's very necessary but very unpopular (with most people).

What I did find interesting was this:

Jack O'Connor said the Government had dismissed suggestions for a pro-active jobs support strategy and that its policy would expose young people to exploitation and leave them with no alternative but to emigrate.

Now I don't know what the fool had in mind but is the WPP (for the record, I do NOT support the WPP in it's current form) not a job support strategy or is he talking about some sort of underpinning of jobs?

AARRRGH · 29-05-2010 12:02PM

Delighted with this (the dole bit anyway, I can't comment on the single parent allowance part cause I don't know enough about it.)

We have too many scumbags in this country who spend their life leeching off the state and do not understand the concept of personal responsibility.

Hopefully this breaks the "dole for life" mentality which so many families seem to have.

But no doubt FF will back down and tax the workers instead.

RichardAnd · 29-05-2010 12:22PM

AARRRGH wrote: »

Delighted with this (the dole bit anyway, I can't comment on the single parent allowance part cause I don't know enough about it.)

We have too many scumbags in this country who spend their life leeching off the state and do not understand the concept of personal responsibility.

Hopefully this breaks the "dole for life" mentality which so many families seem to have.

But no doubt FF will back down and tax the workers instead.

I hope they don't. Doing this along with cutting PS wages (it will happen, croke park deal or no) could make us look good in Europe. If FF get this through, they'll have my vote in the next election.

irishh_bob · 29-05-2010 12:34PM

AARRRGH wrote: »

Delighted with this (the dole bit anyway, I can't comment on the single parent allowance part cause I don't know enough about it.)

We have too many scumbags in this country who spend their life leeching off the state and do not understand the concept of personal responsibility.

Hopefully this breaks the "dole for life" mentality which so many families seem to have.

But no doubt FF will back down and tax the workers instead.

in fairness to the goverment , could you stomach having to listen to vincent browne whinge and moan for the next 12 months , much easier to jack up tax on joe and jackie ( no voice ) average tax payer

murphaph · 29-05-2010 12:46PM

rightwingdub wrote: »

I though Germany was a nanny state when it comes to welfare.

It was, once upon a time, then it realised it was going to bankrupt the state so the Hartz IV reforms were drafted up (Peter Hartz was the VW HR director and chairman of a large group of business and union leaders as well as politicians from all shades who were given the task of welfare reform by Gerhard Schröder) and implemented into law over a period of 4 years. They are still controversial of course but I think they were a step in the right direction for Germany, which was seeing reduced unemployment before the global financial crisis hit their exports quite badly. I think Germany will emerge first from this in Europe though and be quite strong again. Nobody wants to be on HartzIV here: it really does force most people to find work, any work.

Ireland must not only slash dole from those refusing work but generally reduce the dole itself to levels closer to the UK. Paying a mortgage from the dole clearly shows it's way too high. If rent supplement was slashed too, then rental prices would tumble. I know: I'm a landlord and prices are floored by the RS scheme.

gurramok · 29-05-2010 01:04PM

CoalBucket wrote: »

By reducing the age to thirteen what the government are effectively saying to people is get your children out to work as quickly as possible and get them out of education.

No its not, what a warped post. The idea is to get the parent out to work to pay for her child rather than having me the taxpayer paying for both their welfare and to encourage them to stop having children 'on their own'.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0529/breaking4.html

IT wrote:

There were about 90,500 recipients of the payment at the end of last year, a 53 per cent increase since 1997.

The total cost of the scheme in 2009 was €1.1 billion, compared to €338 million in 1997.

The payment is made up of a personal rate for the parent of €196 a week with €29.80 for each additional qualified child. The amount depends on the weekly means of the parent.

So thats 1.1bn + around 500m for Rent Supplement.

'Single' parent with 2 kids who magically gets pregnant each time and stays single gets 256 a week which is 1000 per month with free accommodation courtesy of Rent Supplement(this is 1100 per month in Dublin http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/supplementary-welfare-schemes/rent_supplement)

changes · 29-05-2010 01:23PM

thebman wrote: »

At the moment, its possible to save money on the dole. I'm not saying it should be minimum level per month but it should give enough that you can save for something like a dental appointment or doctors visit or other unexpected expenditure as well as basics like food and rent and that is it.

The medical card should cover this and the unemployed normally qualify for them.

AARRRGH · 29-05-2010 01:33PM

gurramok wrote: »

No its not, what a warped post. The idea is to get the parent out to work to pay for her child rather than having me the taxpayer paying for both their welfare and to encourage them to stop having children 'on their own'.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0529/breaking4.html

And let's be honest, do lone parents spend all the money of necessities, or more likely do they spend a substantial portion of it on things like broadband, mobile phones, clothes, booze, etc.

In my experience (I know a couple of single mums) they spend more money than me on entertainment, etc., and I have a well paid job!

Free money from the government should not be used to sustain a comfortable lifestyle.

CoalBucket · 29-05-2010 02:46PM

AARRRGH wrote: »

Delighted with this (the dole bit anyway, I can't comment on the single parent allowance part cause I don't know enough about it.)

AARRRGH wrote: »

And let's be honest, do lone parents spend all the money of necessities, or more likely do they spend a substantial portion of it on things like broadband, mobile phones, clothes, booze, etc.

In my experience (I know a couple of single mums) they spend more money than me on entertainment, etc., and I have a well paid job!

Free money from the government should not be used to sustain a comfortable lifestyle.

Wow what an hour and a half you spent. In that hour and a half you learned enough to comment on lone parents allowance and you learned what exactly they do with it.

CoalBucket · 29-05-2010 02:49PM

I have a suggestion for all the people in here who think it's a great life on the dole or having to claim social welfare payments. How about ye try living on € 196 a week for a couple of months and see how ye get on.

I lost my job in december and did not get another job until a few weeks ago. I didn't have the easy life that most are portraying on this thread.
I find most of the comments ignorant of the reality of having to survive on social welfare.

Oh and before some of you right wing morons come on and say "aren't you lucky that my tax paid for your social welfare", shove it. I have been employed consistently over the past 12 years with the exception of those 4 months and paid more than my fair share of tax.

There are 435,000 people on the dole, due in no small way to the policies of the government. If the government actually thought they had any moral backing to make more cuts in social welfare, why did they not do it during the boom times when the figures on social welfare were vastly reduced.

Lets call a spade a spade. The government are looking to cut the social welfare because they have poured vast ammounts of money into bailing out banks and their shareholders i.e. Fianna Fail financial supporters.

JJJJNR · 29-05-2010 02:54PM

AARRRGH wrote: »

And let's be honest, do lone parents spend all the money of necessities, or more likely do they spend a substantial portion of it on things like broadband, mobile phones, clothes, booze, etc.

In my experience (I know a couple of single mums) they spend more money than me on entertainment, etc., and I have a well paid job!

Free money from the government should not be used to sustain a comfortable lifestyle.

Yeah they should just have about enough to feed themselves and be living in shanty towns.

Oh sorry wrong country.

scorpioishere · 29-05-2010 03:05PM

Social welfare should be cut by 100%. There are too many lazy ****ers who doesn't bother to go and look for job as the taxpayers are looking after them and their family. Social welfare shouldn't be exist at all. You loose your job you look for another one until you find one. You will make only 1-2 babies and not 6. You don't have money to go on holidays, you stay at home. You don't have money for a new car, use your old 00 one. The list goes one and this will make people realise how to be independent and not being look after by other people. Countries around the world who doesn't have social welfare have already been out of recession whereas Ireland is still in the same **** and will be deeper and deeper because so many people are abusing the system.

ntlbell · 29-05-2010 03:14PM

CoalBucket wrote: »

I have a suggestion for all the people in here who think it's a great life on the dole or having to claim social welfare payments. How about ye try living on € 196 a week for a couple of months and see how ye get on.

I lost my job in december and did not get another job until a few weeks ago. I didn't have the easy life that most are portraying on this thread.
I find most of the comments ignorant of the reality of having to survive on social welfare.

Oh and before some of you right wing morons come on and say "aren't you lucky that my tax paid for your social welfare", shove it. I have been employed consistently over the past 12 years with the exception of those 4 months and paid more than my fair share of tax.

There are 435,000 people on the dole, due in no small way to the policies of the government. If the government actually thought they had any moral backing to make more cuts in social welfare, why did they not do it during the boom times when the figures on social welfare were vastly reduced.

Lets call a spade a spade. The government are looking to cut the social welfare because they have poured vast ammounts of money into bailing out banks and their shareholders i.e. Fianna Fail financial supporters.

it's not meant to be easy.

gurramok · 29-05-2010 03:20PM

Coalbucket, my OH is unemployed. I stated this if you search my posts from about December on this forum. What I object to is the widespread scamming going on by the careerists, not those who recently lost their jobs after paying PRSI for years.

thebman · 29-05-2010 03:32PM

CoalBucket wrote: »

I have a suggestion for all the people in here who think it's a great life on the dole or having to claim social welfare payments. How about ye try living on € 196 a week for a couple of months and see how ye get on.

Been there, done that and could be returning shortly given my new employer is now letting people go.

I lost my job in december and did not get another job until a few weeks ago. I didn't have the easy life that most are portraying on this thread.
I find most of the comments ignorant of the reality of having to survive on social welfare.

Its not supposed to be easy, its supposed to get you by. It does that and more at the moment. Its the more that needs to go.

Oh and before some of you right wing morons come on and say "aren't you lucky that my tax paid for your social welfare", shove it. I have been employed consistently over the past 12 years with the exception of those 4 months and paid more than my fair share of tax.

Its completely different if you've paid your PRSI then you are entitled to dole payments. There are extra allowances that need to be cut though as people pay contributions for dole but many are receiving lots of other benefits.

And those that have contributed at all and are on the dole are the ones people are really calling for cuts for.

There are 435,000 people on the dole, due in no small way to the policies of the government. If the government actually thought they had any moral backing to make more cuts in social welfare, why did they not do it during the boom times when the figures on social welfare were vastly reduced.

During boom time they increased it to buy votes of the unemployed and keep lobby groups arguing to eliminate poverty happy.

They are doing it now as we don't have the money and the other option is to increase tax further to cover it. Do you really think working people are going to pay more tax to ensure people on the dole don't see decrease in payments when it means less money for them when many have already taken paycuts?

Not likely given the generous levels of welfare already.

Lets call a spade a spade. The government are looking to cut the social welfare because they have poured vast ammounts of money into bailing out banks and their shareholders i.e. Fianna Fail financial supporters.

The banks are a scape goat used by those on welfare to try to divert attention. Ignoring bank bailouts, we are still 20 billion in the red because our day to day expenditure on welfare and wages is way too high and not sustainable given the heart attack our economy had.

You are trying to link them in ways that makes no sense. Even if they didn't bail out the banks, the money would not be there and the cust would still have to happen.

AARRRGH · 29-05-2010 04:14PM

CoalBucket wrote: »

I have a suggestion for all the people in here who think it's a great life on the dole or having to claim social welfare payments. How about ye try living on € 196 a week for a couple of months and see how ye get on.

I live on less than that per week.

Why?

Because I live within my means and I am trying to save a large amount of money.

It is easy if you don't waste money on rubbish like junk food and alcohol.

RichardAnd · 29-05-2010 04:32PM

To give a personal example of these reforms to the dole are a good thing, allow me to present the story of a close friend of mine.

He graduated in 2008 from civil engineering and, naturally, was unable to find a job in that field. However, by pulling a few strings, his dad got him a job in a game shop up town (not going to say which one) which would have suited me fine but my dear friend was a graduate with valuable "skills". Thus, after his manager asked him to work Saturdays, he quit.

Since then, he has been on the dole constantly except for a FAS course. I'm surprised this is so as I was under the impression you can only draw the dole for so long, but there you go. He has been offered a few low wage jobs but he has turned them all down because he considers himself a qualified engineer and such jobs are below him.

What he fails to grasp is that he has been unemployed for 2 years and has absolutely no chance in hell of landing a decent job because no one will hire some who is a void of experience. I like the guy, he's a good friend but these reforms will, I hope, give him the kick up the back side he needs.

Like I've always said, running a country and raising children are not all that dissimilar. Spare the rod, spoil the child.

rightwingdub · 29-05-2010 09:52PM

scorpioishere wrote: »

Social welfare should be cut by 100%. There are too many lazy ****ers who doesn't bother to go and look for job as the taxpayers are looking after them and their family. Social welfare shouldn't be exist at all. You loose your job you look for another one until you find one. You will make only 1-2 babies and not 6. You don't have money to go on holidays, you stay at home. You don't have money for a new car, use your old 00 one. The list goes one and this will make people realise how to be independent and not being look after by other people. Countries around the world who doesn't have social welfare have already been out of recession whereas Ireland is still in the same **** and will be deeper and deeper because so many people are abusing the system.

Are you for real, completely get rid of the welfare state, I agree with you on the wasters who have never worked, no problem with eliminating their dole entitlements, however people who have lost their jobs since 2007 do need some sort of protection, I do agree that the dole should be reduced by between 20-25% over the next 3 budgets but to eliminate it is quite extreme.

AARRRGH · 29-05-2010 10:06PM

rightwingdub wrote: »

Are you for real, completely get rid of the welfare state, I agree with you on the wasters who have never worked, no problem with eliminating their dole entitlements, however people who have lost their jobs since 2007 do need some sort of protection, I do agree that the dole should be reduced by between 20-25% over the next 3 budgets but to eliminate it is quite extreme.

I agree.

Possible social welfare cuts in Ireland?

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