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Eircom enacts three strikes rule

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    The "third party" - DectectNet - are being employed by Irma on behalf of the four record firms.

    As Jimi said, it's not just a case of here are the IP addresses and you (Eircom) send out the notifications. Sources at Eircom (in some recent report on RTÉ or in the Irish Times) said they would engage in dialogue etc. and it would not just be an open and shut case.

    The first two strikes are automatic, with a min. of 14 days apart. Obviously, if someone received one of these in error, they could dispute it. When it comes round to the 3rd offence, there is a human element and the whole is vetted before a final decision is made.


    Where is the illegality you speak of?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    Already millions of euro in debt, eircom seek new customers by..........threatening them. Although choice of BB providers is pretty bad in ireland, you got to choose between UPC(ntl) or eircom for decent BB service. I suppose UPC would be the lesser of two evils. Seriously I hope the guys at the top of eircom get sacked for this they are ****ed enough as it is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭johanz


    Watch as UPC falls next


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    johanz wrote: »
    Watch as UPC falls next

    You really think so...

    On what grounds?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,277 ✭✭✭evolutionqy7


    Already millions of euro in debt, eircom seek new customers by..........threatening them. Although choice of BB providers is pretty bad in ireland, you got to choose between UPC(ntl) or eircom for decent BB service. I suppose UPC would be the lesser of two evils. Seriously I hope the guys at the top of eircom get sacked for this they are ****ed enough as it is.

    Fixed


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭johanz


    Jev/N wrote: »
    You really think so...

    On what grounds?
    Every big isp will get there, sooner or later.
    Either they(UPC) accept the new policy or get sued out of their shoes.
    Do you think eircom does this only because they think it's a great idea? I don't think so.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭blubloblu


    UPC are a far bigger company, they're active in a few European countries. They have a strong case, and it's in their interests to protect their customers. Unlike eircom, they're strong enough not to be bullied by IRMA.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭johanz


    RIAA, IRMA and all other music companies need to die off.
    All they do is sue and eat all the money, artists get barely a thing.
    Why can't muslims instead of blowing trade centre, blow up IRMA HQ


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 120 ✭✭Pin_Cushion


    Does this give me grounds to get out of my contract with Eircom?

    I'm only four months in but find their service crappy and overpriced and I don't like how they have blocked pirate bay. Now this. Any ideas?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭johanz


    Does this give me grounds to get out of my contract with Eircom?

    I'm only four months in but find their service crappy and overpriced and I don't like how they have blocked pirate bay. Now this. Any ideas?
    They actually block websites? That's pathetic and should be a good reason to leave already.

    I know piratebay contains a lot of warez, but it also has a lot of legal torrents.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    johanz wrote: »
    RIAA, IRMA and all other music companies need to die off.
    All they do is sue and eat all the money, artists get barely a thing.
    Why can't muslims instead of blowing trade centre, blow up IRMA HQ


    Yeah Mohammad dosent like to pay for his Britney Cds....:pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,277 ✭✭✭evolutionqy7


    johanz wrote: »
    They actually block websites? That's pathetic and should be a good reason to leave already.

    I know piratebay contains a lot of warez, but it also has a lot of legal torrents.

    oh yeah they do...it shows a big screen with eircom saying that under such and such bull**** thepiratebay.org is not available :) one more reason UPC is better :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭johanz


    Yeah Mohammad dosent like to pay for his Britney Cds....:pac:
    Who's crazy enough to even listen to that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    johanz wrote: »
    Who's crazy enough to even listen to that.


    Bin Laden.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭johanz


    Bin Laden.
    Naah, Bin's a smart man, terrorizing US and all that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭java


    Jev/N wrote: »

    The first two strikes are automatic, with a min. of 14 days apart. Obviously, if someone received one of these in error, they could dispute it. When it comes round to the 3rd offence, there is a human element and the whole is vetted before a final decision is made.

    How do you know? I don't see it published anywhere.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭java


    Does this give me grounds to get out of my contract with Eircom?

    I'm only four months in but find their service crappy and overpriced and I don't like how they have blocked pirate bay. Now this. Any ideas?

    eircom blocked pirate bay last Sept!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    johanz wrote: »
    Every big isp will get there, sooner or later.
    Either they(UPC) accept the new policy or get sued out of their shoes.
    Do you think eircom does this only because they think it's a great idea? I don't think so.

    I doubt it TBH, unless they want to themselves... How are they going to get sued out of their shoes? I think you're just plucking random possibilities out of the sky without having any backing? I already said why I think Eircom did this, I won't bother repeating myself. I also said I didn't agree with their choice as I they had the upper hand in the case
    java wrote: »
    How do you know? I don't see it published anywhere.

    The case report from the case dated 16th April


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    I don't know if this has been quoted here yet but here's the plan (taken from EMI Records & Ors -v- Eircom Ltd [2010] IEHC 108 (16 April 2010))

    If anyone is going to bother arguing about this, I believe they should read the case report first, rather than the snippets in the paper

    Full report here: http://www.bailii.org/ie/cases/IEHC/2010/H108.html
    13. On the first infringement, the bill payer at the IP address will be told with their bill that an infringement was detected at such and such a time in respect of a particular song, or whatever, that is subject to copyright. This enables them to reflect on their conduct or to communicate with the rest of their household. On a second infringement, a formal letter is received by the customer from Eircom. This is to the same effect, but it will presumably be couched in stronger terms than the warning with the bill. The customer can only go to level 2 after fourteen days have passed since the first infringement. As I understand it, these communications may also contain information concerning how to keep one’s computer secure from, for instance, the person next door and other continuing education tips. When a third infringement notification is received by Eircom from one of the plaintiffs, after a further fourteen days, Eircom must then review all the evidence. This is done on a human basis; the first two levels operating automatically. A termination notice is then issued to the customer giving fourteen days before cut-off. The customer is then entitled to make representations to Eircom, as the internet service provider, over the telephone or through the internet. The user’s representation is considered by Eircom, not in consultation with the plaintiffs, under para. 2.8 of the protocol. Private matters involving extenuating circumstances, so as to call into play one of the exceptions, or material whereby it is claimed as a matter of fact that the infringement has not taken place at all, must be considered by Eircom. Then, if that does not cause the consequences of the protocol to be diverted or postponed, the customer is cut-off from internet service.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭java


    Jev/N wrote: »
    I don't know if this has been quoted here yet but here's the plan (taken from EMI Records & Ors -v- Eircom Ltd [2010] IEHC 108 (16 April 2010))

    If anyone is going to bother arguing about this, I believe they should read the case report first, rather than the snippets in the paper

    Full report here: http://www.bailii.org/ie/cases/IEHC/2010/H108.html

    Thanks for that. Hadn't seen (or heard!) that it was available online before now.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭celtic723


    Everyone switch from Eircom. These cnuts deserve nothing but misery. They've clearly no backbone and are willing to be the first isp to crumble.

    Fcuk you Eircom you can stick your custom where the shine doesn't shine!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭johanz


    If only switching was so easy.

    Thank god I am not with eircom in the first place.
    Also I don't pirate music, only listen to e-radio so these 3 strikes wouldn't apply to me anyway.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭celtic723


    johanz wrote: »
    If only switching was so easy.

    Thank god I am not with eircom in the first place.
    Also I don't pirate music, only listen to e-radio so these 3 strikes wouldn't apply to me anyway.

    It's unbelievably easy. You ring up and say you're sick to your teeth of their abysmal ''service'' and you're taking your custom elsewhere. All done and dusted withing 10 minutes.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    If people have an alternative.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    sink wrote: »
    The OP is full of shit tbh. The hysteria displayed by the OP and others is quiet hilarious.

    Due to the nature of P2P networks anyone who connects to a swarm (i.e. downloads a file), shares their I.P. with everyone else in that swarm. All anyone has to do to gather a list of I.P.'s sharing the latest Britney Spears album is to join the swarm and copy the list of connected peers. You can do this yourself in most clients including uTorrent and Azureus by going into the details tab and looking at peers. This makes it easy for rights holders to gather a list of I.P. downloading their property illegally. They then identify all the eircom I.P.'s pass on all the details and eircom will then decide whether or not to take action. There is little or no chance of anyone downloading a legal distribution being mistaken for a pirate.

    Direct download services like Rapidshare and Megaupload don't suffer from the same drawbacks. When you download from them, you are downloading directly from their servers and are not connected to anyone else. No one but Rapidshare and Megaupload can see who is downloading what and so the rights holders have no means of tracking who is downloading illegally.

    Downloading from Rapidshare and Megaupload involves making a request to Eircom's DNS servers, of which records may be kept.

    Or, they could just save all HTTP requests containing specific hostnames (which are obtained from the DNS server); these also contain the URL of the file you are attempting to get.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭johanz


    Downloading from Rapidshare and Megaupload involves making a request to Eircom's DNS servers, of which records may be kept.

    Or, they could just save all HTTP requests containing specific hostnames (which are obtained from the DNS server); these also contain the URL of the file you are attempting to get.
    This is why I use opendns, and also because it's faster.
    The thing is, copyright holders report IPs to eircom, eircom itself doesn't monitor user activities. So copyright holders have no way to detect your ip if you are downloading straight from a server.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭mathie


    Jev/N wrote: »
    I don't know if this has been quoted here yet but here's the plan (taken from EMI Records & Ors -v- Eircom Ltd [2010] IEHC 108 (16 April 2010))

    If anyone is going to bother arguing about this, I believe they should read the case report first, rather than the snippets in the paper

    "13. On the first infringement, the bill payer at the IP address will be told with their bill that an infringement was detected at such and such a time in respect of a particular song, or whatever, that is subject to copyright. This enables them to reflect on their conduct or to communicate with the rest of their household. On a second infringement, a formal letter is received by the customer from Eircom. This is to the same effect, but it will presumably be couched in stronger terms than the warning with the bill. The customer can only go to level 2 after fourteen days have passed since the first infringement. As I understand it, these communications may also contain information concerning how to keep one’s computer secure from, for instance, the person next door and other continuing education tips. When a third infringement notification is received by Eircom from one of the plaintiffs, after a further fourteen days, Eircom must then review all the evidence. This is done on a human basis; the first two levels operating automatically. A termination notice is then issued to the customer giving fourteen days before cut-off. The customer is then entitled to make representations to Eircom, as the internet service provider, over the telephone or through the internet. The user’s representation is considered by Eircom, not in consultation with the plaintiffs, under para. 2.8 of the protocol. Private matters involving extenuating circumstances, so as to call into play one of the exceptions, or material whereby it is claimed as a matter of fact that the infringement has not taken place at all, must be considered by Eircom. Then, if that does not cause the consequences of the protocol to be diverted or postponed, the customer is cut-off from internet service. "

    Full report here: http://www.bailii.org/ie/cases/IEHC/2010/H108.html

    Professional to the last.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,225 ✭✭✭Ciaran500


    If people have an alternative.

    If people can get broadband from Eircom they can get it from any of the resellers too.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    johanz wrote: »
    This is why I use opendns, and also because it's faster.
    The thing is, copyright holders report IPs to eircom, eircom itself doesn't monitor user activities. So copyright holders have no way to detect your ip if you are downloading straight from a server.

    I was pointing out that sink was incorrect in their assertion that "no one but Rapidshare and Megaupload can see who is downloading what and so the rights holders have no means of tracking who is downloading illegally."

    If Eircom really wants to, they can log all of your online activities. They can also capture all DNS requests, regardless of what DNS server you use. If you're on their network, all packets pass through their routers. (I'm aware you know all this already, but others might not.)

    Just sayin' though. I know they (probably) don't do this and that the copyright holders are the ones giving them IPs.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,231 ✭✭✭✭event


    I was pointing out that sink was incorrect in their assertion that "no one but Rapidshare and Megaupload can see who is downloading what and so the rights holders have no means of tracking who is downloading illegally."

    If Eircom really wants to, they can log all of your online activities. They can also capture all DNS requests, regardless of what DNS server you use. If you're on their network, all packets pass through their routers. (I'm aware you know all this already, but others might not.)

    Just sayin' though. I know they (probably) don't do this and that the copyright holders are the ones giving them IPs.

    so can every ISP though

    Eircom arent doing this

    the amount of misinformation in the OP is shocking


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