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Is Korea About to Explode (Not a daily Mail Article)

13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,217 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Wipe out the current leaders of north korea, and let the normal people live their lives. Their leaders are scum and literally need to be culled.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,943 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    They've never claimed to win it before, why would they try now?

    north korean propaganda is nuts, check the front page of their only english newspaper.

    and for those who want to see how they celebrate the eternal presidents birthday, here's my own little video. we were told there's about 100,000 people dance in kim il sung square.



    the big unfinished hotel in pyongyang was funded by mohammed al-fayed until he started spending money trying to prove a conspiracy theory on his son's death.

    and as for having a big army, most of it is made up of conscripts that use it as a means to have some clothes. drive through the countryside and you'll see loads of kids in military uniform working in fields without any machinery. they may see their leader as a god but i'm sure they'd prefer a ham (or dog!) sandwich if given the option between war and some food in their stomach.

    this is the reason for north korea to be nuts. that and a leader that will shoot anyone that disagrees with him.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    An excellent piece in Time magazine gives a peak at what's going on behind the scenes and why it will probably never kick off.
    I sent an e-mail to a friend in Seoul after the South Korean government presented the evidence that made it obvious to all but the most brain-addled conspiracy theorists that its neighbor to the North had blown one of the South's naval vessels out of the water on March 26, killing 46 sailors. I wondered whether U.S. and South Korean military planners had anything filed under "lightning strike to wipe out the North's artillery positions near the 38th parallel and then decapitate the regime in Pyongyang." It was a joke — well, sort of — but unhesitatingly, my friend responded, "But no one here feels threatened by North Korea ..."

    The thing about a large portion of the South Korean population is that it exists in what psychiatrists would describe as a fugue state, one in which a person suffers from a loss of memory, often begins a new life — and remembers nothing at all about the amnesiac phase. So those people can be forgiven for turning away from the fact that with the assault on the Cheonan, North Korea engaged in an act of war and abrogated the 1953 armistice agreement that established a truce on the divided peninsula. It's been 60 years since the outbreak of the catastrophic Korean conflict; the South, the U.S. and the other U.N. allies will commemorate it officially next month. The message, in the wake of the Cheonan incident, could not be clearer: no one wants another one. (See pictures from inside North Korea.)

    Oh, I know. The message actually being uttered now is intended to be a show of strength. President Lee Myung Bak gave a speech on May 24 in which he said that although Seoul has "time and again" looked the other way in response to North Korean aggression, "now things are different." North Korea, he said, "will pay a price according to its provocative acts." A day later, the message was the same coming from Beijing, where U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had two days of meetings at the so-called Strategic and Economic Dialogue with the North's lone patron, China. "Our support for the defense of South Korea is unequivocal," she said. And even China, North Korea's all-forgiving ally, seemed to indicate that it would not stand in the way of further U.N. sanctions against the North, which now becomes the focus of U.S. and South Korean diplomacy. The atmospherics were intended to be harsh — the South will even restart the Cold War–era broadcasts over loudspeakers at the DMZ in which they yell really nasty things at the soldiers on the other side in order to send Kim Jong Il the signal that enough is enough. (See doctored pictures of Kim Jong Il.)

    But South Korea sort of has to exist in a fugue state. Both realpolitik and economic reality dictate it. South Korea is democratic, it's rich, and it's a trading nation that, with startling seamlessness, shifted its focus from the U.S. to China, which is now the largest customer on the planet for all the good things South Korean companies export. It has too much to lose.

    And so you have to look at the reality beneath the warlike atmospherics. The New York Times reported that the U.S. and South Korean navies would "put new pressure" on North Korea by conducting joint exercises next month. The point of the exercises? "To detect submarines of the kind suspected of sinking a South Korean warship." Does that sound like "pressure" on North Korea? Or does it sound like they're going to practice what they screwed up back in March, when a North Korean submarine fired a torpedo and got away utterly undetected? Similarly, headlines everywhere proclaimed that the South was "cutting off" trade with the North. Up to a point, that was true. But it's also true that the Kaesong industrial zone, just across the border in the North — home to more than 120 South Korean companies employing more than 43,000 North Korean workers — accounts for more than half of all inter-Korean trade ... and it's going to remain in business. So is trade with the North really halted? No.

    This is the balance that South Korea and its allies must strike, getting tough but not too tough — because the alternative is too awful to contemplate. Vast numbers of South Koreans just keep telling themselves that "no one feels" threatened by their brothers in the North, despite the fact that 46 South Korean sailors now lie at the bottom of what Koreans call the West Sea. The risk in this, of course, is obvious: what one Pentagon planner called the "calibrated signals" Seoul and Washington are now sending need to be read properly by Kim Jong Il, the Dear Leader, and his military advisers in Pyongyang.

    Think carefully, then, about this question: Do you think it's clear to Kim & co. just how many South Korean soldiers, airmen and sailors he can kill without triggering the war that no one wants? He got 46 this time; had the ship's entire crew of 104 been killed, would the reaction from Seoul and its friends be any different? (Hint: No.)

    So what's the answer? If not 46 or 104, is it 460? Or 4,600 perhaps? What's the red line that Kim Jong Il cannot cross without eliciting something more than yet another round of economic sanctions from the U.N. and an inter-Korean trade embargo that doesn't really put an embargo on inter-Korean trade? I bet he doesn't have a clue. And that's what's scary. Late on Tuesday the North Korean regime — having, according to North Korean defectors in Seoul, already instructed its people to prepare for "combat" — announced that it was going to sever all ties with the South. Kim is old and ailing and, by most accounts, desperately trying to install his son as his successor. The most plausible explanation for the Cheonan attack is that it puffs up the Kim clan in the eyes of the North Korean military — the key to ensuring a smooth succession in Pyongyang. For all our sakes, then, let's hope it succeeded, so he doesn't feel the need to pull another lethal stunt. Because for all the angry rhetoric and sanctions being readied, I'd bet Kim & co. think they can get away with damn near anything these days.

    Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1991612,00.html?xid=rss-topstories#ixzz0p1YpNilB


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,125 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Kiith wrote: »
    There is? I'm pretty sure any nuclear was is a global

    Not exactly. For instance if Pakistan and India went to war, used nuclear weapons and no other country in the world was involved that would be more of a regional nuclear war than a global one, it wouldn't be really global at all. Nukes aren't used solely in World War scenarios.

    In the case of North and South Korea going to war, I would say there is a risk of the war becoming a world war if China gets involved but I think China wouldn't want risk it all and support a spoiled little dictator in North Korea who probably has mental issues. I'd say the US would get involved and supply South Korea with nuclear weapons to be used for retaliatory purposes. If this were to happen then the nukes would probably still be confined to the Korean peninsula which is a long way from being a global nuclear war.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Smyth


    I remember watching a documentary on NK once. When interviewing on their main golf course, the guide mentioned that when lil kim played his first round of golf, he had 18 hole in ones.

    Kidz got skill yo'


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 216 ✭✭Highly Salami


    PK2008 wrote: »
    Looks like a slippery slope alright




    :pac:

    dont get it :confused:


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 23,907 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kiith


    Smyth wrote: »
    I remember watching a documentary on NK once. When interviewing on their main golf course, the guide mentioned that when lil kim played his first round of golf, he had 18 hole in ones.

    Kidz got skill yo'

    It was only 11 holes in one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,219 ✭✭✭PK2008


    dont get it :confused:

    Look into the eyes, not around the eyes, into the eyes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭DamienH


    Dyflin wrote: »
    An excellent piece in Time magazine gives a peak at what's going on behind the scenes and why it will probably never kick off.


    I live in South Korea at the moment, and this is pretty much what people are thinking. No one is anyway worried. I asked my class and they weren't worried, neither were any of the korea teachers I work with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Kiith wrote: »
    It was only 11 holes in one.
    Still though getting the ball in 11 holes with just one shot is pretty good.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,125 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    DamienH wrote: »
    I live in South Korea at the moment, and this is pretty much what people are thinking. No one is anyway worried. I asked my class and they weren't worried, neither were any of the korea teachers I work with.

    Someone told me once that there is this thing called Korea Air syndrome (or something along those lines) that says that people from East Asian countries, probably because of the way their brought up, place nearly ultimate trust in authority and see it as dishonorable to question it. Could be something to do with the teachings of Confucius, I don't know.

    Imagine this scenario. There's a large jumbo jet heading towards a mountain or a cliff-face. The co-pilot sees the cliff but instead of telling the main pilot (who is a bit short-sighted) to turn and avoid the cliff he asks the pilot if he should consider to turn the plane. The pilot says no and says that they have a bit to go before they are in danger of plunging into the cliff. A few seconds lapse and the co-pilot starts to get nervous. He tell (not asks) the pilot that he should turn the plane now before they all die. The pilot probably knows this but is angered at the fact that the co-pilot, who has less authority, ordered him to do something. He views this as disrespectful. He begins to scold the co-pilot. After wasting valuable time doing this he then realises that they are in fact about to crash but it's too late to turn the plane and they all die.

    This sort of scenario probably wouldn't happen in the West. Again I only heard this from someone so it could be utter bull.

    If you were to apply the basis of this scenario to the present mentality of Koreans, that they don't see the danger and are not worried, you could begin to question their rational. They mightn't see the danger now but only will at the last moment when the North and South are on the very brink of war. I'd imagine that all the American stationed at military bases in South Korea might have a different opinion and way of thinking to them seen as they were brought up in a different culture that sees it as healthy to question authority. If the Korean Air Syndrome is true then I'd try to get out of Korea ASAP.

    It really scary stuff, have you every questioned why communism fell in most countries in the rest of the world but not in East Asia.

    I wonder if it could be something to the "Fugue state" that is mentioned in the article that Dyflin quoted?

    (Then again it could be a load of bull)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,219 ✭✭✭PK2008


    North Korea need to be spanked for what they did.

    And if South Korea dont do it, they'll look like some punk ass b1tches


    WORD!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,895 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Someone told me once that there is this thing called Korea Air syndrome (or something along those lines)

    The incident in question that I can recall was a KLM/PanAm collision in Tenerife. Neither the KLM flight engineer nor co-pilot was assertive towards the very senior captain, though they both voiced concerns.
    they would have a camera in the 1st tank to cross the border if they could

    If you hunt around enough, you should be able to see footage of the first Iraqi tank which crossed the border into Saudi Arabia (I seem to recall it was actually an IFV). The commentary from the observer was "The King's gonna be pissed"

    NTM


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    SadieSue wrote: »
    They really don't like puppets.
    I blame Team America TBH


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    bonerm wrote: »
    It'll all calm down in North Korea once they hear they won the World Cup again this July.
    fyp


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 237 ✭✭Wheelsonthebus


    Dont think anything will happen here. Sabre rattling on both sides.
    Jong Il wants to ensure the passing of power to his son and the conservatives in the South want to boost approval before the elections.

    Think the North would be vastly unprepared for a war should it arise. Most of their technology is decades old. The South has a completely modern, albiet smaller, army equipped with up to date US weaponary. The North has a huge food crisis ongoing at the moment and would be unlikely to be able to sustain any long campaign.

    Plus times have changed. They could not rely on any outside help. China is capitalist in all the ways that count and have no interest in any "war of ideologies" like they did in the previous conflict. It's now such a huge trading power that it wouldn't want to get involved in any conflict that would jepardised inward investment, particularly US and European.

    The only way they would get involved would be at the UN level to try to outposture the Americans for prestige but cant seem them offering any (military) support beyond that.

    Think it's very unlikely that anything will happen, as the North Koreans are experts at all this sabre rattling but I think any "hot" conflict would hugely increase the odds of the north using some type of "dirty" bomb, perhaps even nuclear to try to deter any invasion, which they would not be prepared for.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,895 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    DThe South has a completely modern, albiet smaller, army equipped with up to date US weaponary.

    For the record, Korea makes much of its own stuff: The tanks are made by ROTEM and Hyundai, the rifles and APCs are made by Daewoo, Samsung makes the SP artillery, Kia makes the towed artillery. The warships are almost all Korean-built. Only in the air force are the primary current-generation equipment still predominantly American designs.

    NTM


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    For the record, Korea makes much of its own stuff: The tanks are made by ROTEM and Hyundai, the rifles and APCs are made by Daewoo, Samsung makes the SP artillery, Kia makes the towed artillery. The warships are almost all Korean-built. Only in the air force are the primary current-generation equipment still predominantly American designs.

    NTM
    It's always weird hearing household brand names being involved in military production.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,895 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Japan's the same. The vast majority of Japan's equipment is designed and built by Mitsubishi, though Howa make the rifles, and Komatsu make a fair few lighter vehicles. Kawasaki is in the submarine-building business, and Hitachi and Mitsui have built a few of the warships. Again, the Air Force is still more American-dominated, but Kawasaki and Fuji make trainers and transport aircraft, Mitsubishi's building the current production Japanese fighter to it's own design (and built F-4s and F-15s under license)

    NTM


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 560 ✭✭✭nicegirl


    hal9000 wrote: »
    Looks like things are spiraling out of control pretty fast over there, Is war "inevitable" (in best team america Kim Jong-Il accent) at this stage or is the DPRK just postruring?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64O3YU20100525

    The future of the world from a source is the following -

    In the near future there will be a huge problem with the Euro currency in Europe.

    There will also be a war between America and China over trade.

    If this happens, you heard it from me!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,943 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Good report on Newsnight tonight, tomorrow they'll be talking to defectors who've got to the South.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭DamienH


    ScumLord wrote: »
    It's always weird hearing household brand names being involved in military production.

    Those companies have basically built Korea. All the apartment blocks here are built by Samsung,Daewoo,Hyundai and SK. Everything is it's a bit mad tbh. They build parks and all sorts aswell. I'm not surprised that they make weapons, Samsung make a car here ffs.


  • Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭ Bonnie Late Vapidity


    cloneslad wrote: »
    As someone living in Korea, let me just say..

    It's not as bad over here as the western media will have you believe. People aren't stock piling with the anticipation of war, no one is running around scared that we will be attacked.

    In fact the only things people are buying in bulk are Korea world cup supporters items like scarfs, t-shirts, headbands, flags and even flip flops. The atmosphere is relaxed over here and everyone is just looking forward to the world cup.

    I wouldn't pay too much attention to that, tbh. You're absolutely right about the attitude, but South Koreans like to pretend the north just isn't there and that everything is fine and dandy. I really get the feeling that there could be grenades falling from the sky and the South Koreans would still be saying everything was grand. Someone asked my Korean friend about the torpedoed submarine the other day and she basically said 'what submarine'?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,105 ✭✭✭Thirdfox


    DamienH wrote: »
    Those companies have basically built Korea. All the apartment blocks here are built by Samsung,Daewoo,Hyundai and SK. Everything is it's a bit mad tbh. They build parks and all sorts aswell. I'm not surprised that they make weapons, Samsung make a car here ffs.

    On a lighter note, here's an ad run in Korea by Samsung with a local k-pop girl group that promotes mental health and more smiling (and less suicides).

    "Hahaha"

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=sQH1kk3FML4&feature=related


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Thirdfox wrote: »
    Having read quite a few of your active posts in the Politics forum it is surprising and disappointing to see your lack of knowledge when it comes to the Korean peninsula conflict.

    China (and the Soviets?) only became involved in the Korean war after the South, aided by the UN (US-led coalition - Soviets didn't veto as they were protesting PRC's exclusion in favour of the ROC) approached the Chinese border. General MacArthur being in favour of crossing the Yalu river and in fact quite happy to nuke the red Chinese too. Were it not for the Americans getting overzealous (the US President ultimately discharging MacArthur for his rash actions) the Chinese might have never intervened and we wouldn't have the 38th parallel problem today.
    Well thats one interpretation. At the end of the day, Soviet influence in the Korean war was there from the start, almost all of the munitions used by NK were Soviet supplied. There is also evidence that China was using this to distract attention from its invasion of Taiwan, and its only after the US sent the seventh fleet to protect Taiwan that they intervened in the war.
    On 27 June 1950, two days after the KPA invaded and three months before the Chinese entered the war, President Truman dispatched the United States Seventh Fleet to the Taiwan Strait, to protect the Nationalist Republic of China (Taiwan) from the People’s Republic of China (PRC).

    On 4 August 1950, with the PRC invasion of Taiwan aborted, Mao Zedong reported to the Politburo that he would intervene in Korea when the People's Liberation Army's (PLA) Taiwan invasion force was reorganized into the PLA North East Frontier Force. On 20 August 1950, Premier Zhou Enlai informed the United Nations that "Korea is China's neighbor ... The Chinese people cannot but be concerned about a solution of the Korean question". Thus, via neutral-country diplomats, China warned that in safeguarding Chinese national security, they would intervene against the UN Command in Korea. President Truman interpreted the communication as "a bald attempt to blackmail the UN", and dismissed it.
    It was President Truman who ordered the transfer of nine Mark-IV nuclear capsules "to the Air Force's Ninth Bomb Group, the designated carrier of the weapons ... [and] signed an order to use them against Chinese and Korean targets", which he never transmitted. MacArthur was dismissed for his criticism of Truman's "limited war" policy, which bordered on insubordination.
    On 5 April 1950, the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) issued orders for the retaliatory atomic bombing of Manchurian PRC military bases, if either their armies crossed into Korea or if PRC or KPA bombers attacked Korea from there. The President ordered the transfer of nine Mark-IV nuclear capsules "to the Air Force's Ninth Bomb Group, the designated carrier of the weapons ... [and] signed an order to use them against Chinese and Korean targets", which he never transmitted.

    President Truman did not immediately threaten atomic warfare after the October 1950 Chinese intervention, but, 45 days later, did remark about using it after the PVA repelled the UN Command from North Korea.

    In The Origins of the Korean War (1981, 1990), US historian Bruce Cumings reports that in a 30 November 1950 press conference, President Truman's allusions to attacking the KPA with nuclear weapons "was a threat based on contingency planning to use the bomb, rather than the faux pas so many assumed it to be." On 30 November 1950, the USAF Strategic Air Command was ordered to "augment its capacities, and that this should include atomic capabilities."
    The Eighth Army pressed north again in February, inflicting heavy casualties and recapturing Seoul in March 1951. Allied leaders had to once more consider whether they wanted MacArthur to invade North Korea or seek a peace. On March 24, MacArthur called on China to admit that it had been defeated, simultaneously challenging both the Chinese and his own superiors. Then on April 5, Representative Joseph William Martin, Jr. revealed a letter from MacArthur critical of President Truman's limited-war strategy, providing copies of it to the press and reading it aloud on the floor of the house. The letter concluded with:

    It seems strangely difficult for some to realize that here in Asia is where the Communist conspirators have elected to make their play for global conquest, and that we have joined the issue thus raised on the battlefield; that here we fight Europe’s war with arms while the diplomats there still fight it with words; that if we lose the war to communism in Asia the fall of Europe is inevitable, win it and Europe most probably would avoid war and yet preserve freedom. As you pointed out, we must win. There is no substitute for victory.

    That day too, the Joint Chiefs of Staff drafted orders for MacArthur authorizing him to attack airbases in Manchuria and Shantung with nuclear weapons if Chinese air strikes originated from there. The next day, April 6, Truman summoned Secretary of Defense George Marshall, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Omar Bradley, Secretary of State Dean Acheson and Averill Harriman to discuss what to do about MacArthur. The two generals were opposed to the idea of MacArthur's relief but Acheson was strongly in favor. The Joint Chiefs met on April 8 and agreed that MacArthur was not guilty of insubordination and had stretched but not violated any orders.[248] The Joint Chiefs concurred with but did not recommend MacArthur's relief, although they felt that it was correct "from a purely military point of view." The next day Truman ordered MacArthur's relief by Ridgway. The order went out on April 10 with Bradley's signature. The relief led to a storm of controversy. The fighting would go on until ended by the Armistice Agreement in July 1953.
    Its therefore fairly straightforward to read between the lines here to support the statements that have been made. Even the reluctance of China to condemn North Korea for its actions recently speaks volumes about the ongoing relationship between NK and China, and the purpose that NK served and still serves to this day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,540 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    hal9000 wrote: »
    And the North Koreans eat nothing!

    North Koreans eat people. (Not because they are evil, or want to, but because they are/ were starving)

    As usual it's not easy to get info from this closed country . . . .

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A41966-2003Oct3?language=printer


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭Conor108


    Good BBC video of life inside NK Ah sure its only 15 mins long


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Stimpyone




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    DamienH wrote: »
    Those companies have basically built Korea. All the apartment blocks here are built by Samsung,Daewoo,Hyundai and SK. Everything is it's a bit mad tbh. They build parks and all sorts aswell. I'm not surprised that they make weapons, Samsung make a car here ffs.
    I've heard that Japanese staff of these large companies have lots of free time on their hands due to almost everything being automated and union rules meaning the staff can't be fired. The companies make everything for them, including the towns they live in. Sounds like a great life.


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