[US/IRL] 6x17/18 - "The End" (2.5 Hour Series Finale) [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

prinz · 25-05-2010 11:01AM

9

JerryHandbag wrote: »

Just one of many questions that came to mind....why was alternative/purgatory Daniel Faraday trying to convince Desmond while they were prepping for the concert, that they were in fact in another alternative timeline?? He said he may have set off the nuke and they were in another timeline now.....why would he say this if they were in this "afterlife"

Daniel knew something wasn't right, but he had no idea what it was and couldn't put his finger on it.

prinz · 25-05-2010 11:02AM

9

seadnamac wrote: »

Yet Christian told Jack everything that had ever happened to him and everyone he had ever known was real?

Everything in his lifetime. i.e. the crash, life on the island, his death from being stabbed etc. He was telling Jack that the memories he was having of his real life...was in fact his real life.

Shades799 · 25-05-2010 11:03AM

7

For me, what I wanted out of the last episode was the answer to one thing. What was Lost about?! And I got my answer.

Lost is a fantasy\adventure, character based TV show, about a magical Island where a good old-fashioned battle between good and evil was taking place. If evil had won and escaped the island, the whole world would have been doomed. The Good protector of the island, himself with special powers, needed someone to take over his position as protector and as such engineered a situation to get the candidates onto the Island. The events that happened on the island was merely the playing out of this story and I for one enjoyed the ride.

The important thing to remember is this is a fantasy TV show, no different to any other show where good is fighting evil for the control of the world. The fact that it had it's roots based on some scientific fact, cultural references and other plausible (if not possible) things, should not take away from that fact.

seadnamac · 25-05-2010 11:04AM

5

prinz wrote: »

Everything in his lifetime. i.e. the crash, life on the island etc.

Does he make that distinction? Because I don't think he does and it's something that has been annoying me...

smcgiff · 25-05-2010 11:09AM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

What happened with Michael and Walt? Why were they not at the end with Jack and the others?

No blacks in proper white heaven silly!

The actor playing Walt is surely too old now to represent his young island self and of course, while some of them probably died much later than island time, they appeared to each other in their island forms.

Guessing Michael was still in purgatory something similar to Ben, or was off making another show.

smokingman · 25-05-2010 11:14AM

I did enjoy it (it's only a tv show peeps, don't be getting all crazy about it!).

Loved the bit where Kate went "Christian Sheppard...seriously??!!"
Kinda clicked with me then that they'd go the religious route but much preferred Battlestars version.

prinz · 25-05-2010 11:14AM

9

seadnamac wrote: »

Does he make that distinction? Because I don't think he does and it's something that has been annoying me...

Trying to find a transript now, but IIRC that almost immediately after Jack had a flash of his actual life and death, Christian then asks...how are you here?, and Jack realises he is actually dead i.e. after his death on the island, and that the FST wasn't real.

prinz · 25-05-2010 11:15AM

9

smcgiff wrote: »

Guessing Michael was still in purgatory something similar to Ben, or was off making another show.

Michael was still on the island as a 'ghost'.

ktc1 · 25-05-2010 11:17AM

9

After watching this last night I was thinking an 8 maybe a 9, After sleeping and actually waking up thinking about it during the night I've gone with a 10.

For me at the end it was all about the people, their journey, faith and redemption and not the sci-fi element. For some viewers who were more into the sci fi / mystery (and in fairness the writers did steer us in that direction quite a bit) I can understand why the finale was a let down, but having lived six years with all the characters their interactions and their back stories, getting resolution on their lives and after lives was more important.

I know enough about the Island/Jacob/Mother/MIB/Dharma/Widmore etc to understand in broad terms what is going on and I can make educated guesses about the gaps that aren't filled in, and if there are some minor inconsistentsies, I'll just have to accept them as to do otherwise would spoil the pleasure I get from the rest of the story. I know way more about what is happening then the Losties ever did, they have to take everything on faith. If everything was answered it would be like a magician showing you how you did the trick, it would diminish the impact. eg - does it really matter where the island came from, would knowing it was aliens or ancient Egyptian mystics, or whatever improve the show, for me the answer would be no, not really. It's fun trying to connect up the dots and you can have personal theories on how certain situations arose (eg how did the Others take over the Dharma sub, have off island assets etc.)

I'd contrast Lost with Fringe. I really enjoy Fringe and there the mysteries are all explained by science. There's nothing wrong with that but I don't think that show will ever have the emotional heft or impact of Lost with it's mystical and faith based elements.

I thought the last episode was beautifully done, almost poetic and the music was outstanding. I hope the afterlife is like they described it, if so there are a few people I'm looking forward to meeting.

Blazer · 25-05-2010 11:20AM

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

According to him there's only Season 1 people in the church which he uses to justify that the writer's wrote the ending directly after the pilot.
Yet Juliet is in here..Juliet didn't join Lost till Season 3 premiere. So hence this is one lie already...if they could write Juliet in why not write in Ben? Penny also didn't show up till the Season 2 finale.
And if Penny could be in the church why not Daniel?
Saying they're connected is taking the lazy way out.
Argghh...I hate unanswered questions

Sure I could guess but I want to hear it from the guy who actually wrote it..

How Soon Is Now · 25-05-2010 11:22AM

8

ktc1 wrote: »

After watching this last night I was thinking an 8 maybe a 9, After sleeping and actually waking up thinking about it during the night I've gone with a 10.

For me at the end it was all about the people, their journey, faith and redemption and not the sci-fi element. For some viewers who were more into the sci fi / mystery (and in fairness the writers did steer us in that direction quite a bit) I can understand why the finale was a let down, but having lived six years with all the characters their interactions and their back stories, getting resolution on their lives and after lives was more important.

I know enough about the Island/Jacob/Mother/MIB/Dharma/Widmore etc to understand in broad terms what is going on and I can make educated guesses about the gaps that aren't filled in, and if there are some minor inconsistentsies, I'll just have to accept them as to do otherwise would spoil the pleasure I get from the rest of the story. I know way more about what is happening then the Losties ever did, they have to take everything on faith. If everything was answered it would be like a magician showing you how you did the trick, it would diminish the impact. eg - does it really matter where the island came from, would knowing it was aliens or ancient Egyptian mystics, or whatever improve the show, for me the answer would be no, not really. It's fun trying to connect up the dots and you can have personal theories on how certain situations arose (eg how did the Others take over the Dharma sub, have off island assets etc.)

I'd contrast Lost with Fringe. I really enjoy Fringe and there the mysteries are all explained by science. There's nothing wrong with that but I don't think that show will ever have the emotional heft or impact of Lost with it's mystical and faith based elements.

I thought the last episode was beautifully done, almost poetic and the music was outstanding. I hope the afterlife is like they described it, if so there are a few people I'm looking forward to meeting.

Thank u a million flipping times haha

This is pretty much what i feel about the show u just wrote what i could not put in text

JerryHandbag · 25-05-2010 11:22AM

5

Desmond is in the church too. He didnt join til season 2 episode 1

MOH · 25-05-2010 11:23AM

8

Presumably Ana Lucia isn't ready to move on since she's taking bribes to release prisoners, not really living the good life.

Rabidlamb wrote: »

I can believe about those who died on or experienced the Island.
Penny was a normal person who existed outside The Island affect.
Why was she shown in the purgatory scene ?.

Because she was the most important person to Desmond.

Lot of good reasoning in this but:

tobehonestwithy wrote: »

......
But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

That doesn't work. Desmond and Penny were clearly in the church, and weren't in it until S2.

seadnamac · 25-05-2010 11:24AM

5

prinz wrote: »

Trying to find a transript now, but IIRC that almost immediately after Jack had a flash of his actual life and death, Christian then asks...how are you here?, and Jack realises he is actually dead i.e. after his death on the island, and that the FST wasn't real.

He touches the empty coffin and has a flashback of his life on the island. Christian then appears. The jist;
J; "How are you here"
C; "How are you here"
J; "I died too.........Are you real?"
C; "I sure hope so, yea I'm real, everything that ever happened to you is real, all those people in the church, they're all real too"

I don't see a distinction. So everyone in the church is real, but the church isn't? Because if it was wouldn't everything else in the world of the FST be real aswell?

Saint_Mel · 25-05-2010 11:26AM

smcgiff wrote: »

No blacks in proper white heaven silly!

Rose was there ... but maybe Bernard vouched for her

Marcaiocht_Tonn · 25-05-2010 11:26AM

9

ktc1 wrote: »

After watching this last night I was thinking an 8 maybe a 9, After sleeping and actually waking up thinking about it during the night I've gone with a 10.

For me at the end it was all about the people, their journey, faith and redemption and not the sci-fi element. For some viewers who were more into the sci fi / mystery (and in fairness the writers did steer us in that direction quite a bit) I can understand why the finale was a let down, but having lived six years with all the characters their interactions and their back stories, getting resolution on their lives and after lives was more important.

I know enough about the Island/Jacob/Mother/MIB/Dharma/Widmore etc to understand in broad terms what is going on and I can make educated guesses about the gaps that aren't filled in, and if there are some minor inconsistentsies, I'll just have to accept them as to do otherwise would spoil the pleasure I get from the rest of the story. I know way more about what is happening then the Losties ever did, they have to take everything on faith. If everything was answered it would be like a magician showing you how you did the trick, it would diminish the impact. eg - does it really matter where the island came from, would knowing it was aliens or ancient Egyptian mystics, or whatever improve the show, for me the answer would be no, not really. It's fun trying to connect up the dots and you can have personal theories on how certain situations arose (eg how did the Others take over the Dharma sub, have off island assets etc.)

I'd contrast Lost with Fringe. I really enjoy Fringe and there the mysteries are all explained by science. There's nothing wrong with that but I don't think that show will ever have the emotional heft or impact of Lost with it's mystical and faith based elements.

I thought the last episode was beautifully done, almost poetic and the music was outstanding. I hope the afterlife is like they described it, if so there are a few people I'm looking forward to meeting.

This is a brilliant post, and explains exactly what I've been thinking. Good stuff.

I think the final scene was perfect, ties in with the characters' ongoing connectivity throughout the show. And yeah, the muscial score knocks me flat every time.

silvervixen84 · 25-05-2010 11:37AM

7

Wow, 1056 posts already!

I watched it with my friends last night and we debated it during and afterwards. We came to the conclusion of many posters here, with events on the Island being real and the flash-sideways being a sort of purgatory leading them to their own "personal heaven".

I gave it 8/10 because I really enjoyed the episode, but truly felt underwhelmed by the last 10 minutes. It reminded me of the ending of Titanic! It felt lazy and blah and generally unsatisfactory. I don't know how I would have ended it, but at one point when Jack woke up after being spat out of the cave, I thought he might be the new MIB to Hurley's "Jacob", but obviously Jack isn't a bad guy, so they'd both mind the island together for eternity and play golf together on the mountains.....

I got teary at Charlie & Claire's reunion, Sawyer & Juliet's reunion, and Jin & Sun's baby scan.

I yelped with joy when Frank turned up alive, as well as seeing Rose, Bernard and Vincent again!

I found FST Ben's ending very sad, I'd a feeling he was going to go off and kill himself after discovering how evil he was on the island.

I know Christian said everyone dies sometime, but if Hurley is the new protector of the island, would he not possibly have lived forever considering MIB is dead and therefore not trying to kill the protector?

I enjoyed the battle between Jack and MIB on the rocks, the stuntmen did a great job. I think Jack should have beaten MIB himself though, rather than MIB taking a bullet in the back from Kate. I would have preferred MIB getting a cool action movie death, like being skewered on a rock or something

I'm delighted they tied together the flash sideways as much as they could, because a few weeks ago, it looked like it was going nowhere. Flash sideways Des rocks!

It annoyed me how Frank, Myles and Richard aren't considered important enough to be in the church, yet Shannon, Boone and Penny are.

I thought the numbers weren't explained, but ye've enlightened me here so I'll shut up about them now

Rabidlamb · 25-05-2010 11:43AM

5

Yes Jack dies fixing the island and letting the others escape

Kate, Sawyer, Miles, Frank, Claire, and Richard escape the island on the plane and live out the rest of their lives in the real world in normal time.

Hurley (in the Jacob) & Ben (in the Richard role) stay on the island to become its new protectors, who are now allowed to make their own rules and govern the island their way, i.e. Ben says they can find away to get Des home because its their island now, their rules

When they all finally died they created a place (Flash-Sideways world) where they come together and could pass over with each other, they all needed each other to be whole and happy.

The flash sideways we saw could have been decades in the future when all the main characters had eventually died, that's why Penny was there.
They could then leave limbo/purgatory together.

Ben remained in purgatory to atone for his sins.

bossa_nova · 25-05-2010 11:43AM

9

I think all of the mysteries of the island where better left unexplained, as annoyying as it maybe, it just works better imo

I like to think of it this way, The force in Wars Wars, it was mysteries, mytical and cool, and was explained in the best way then possible in episode 5, then Georg Lucas takes it all away with some bullsh*te excuse about miniclorians in the prequels and everyone hated it

I'd say the same would be true if they exlpained everthing in LOST, their all so built now up that nothing would be good enough.

opr · 25-05-2010 11:46AM

9

Just watched the whole Q&A that Basq post yesterday. Really great watch and this just is a genius reply from Lindelof to an audience question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyoy0dYbtiQ#t=3m37s

Opr

lensman · 25-05-2010 11:48AM

4

If you ever watched the movie "jacobs ladder" then it's quite simple,..
1..the plane crashed on a normal every day island,..not a magic island
2..all people were killed outright except Jack.
3..jack dies also but in his dying moments his weaking/fading mind constructs the whole elaborate senario,.. so everything we seen over 6 series of lost was jack's dying thoughts. the dreamscape starts & ends with jack on his back in the bamboo forest...you might ask why jack was in a suit in s1 ep1 as he lay in the bamboo forest but was in tee shirt & jeans in s6 ep18,..well the dreamscape had already begun from that very first sequence,...BTW the only life form that survived the plane crash was the dog,.

Irish Guitarist · 25-05-2010 11:51AM

I've been thinking about it and I think I initially misunderstood what was happening in Purgatory (or whatever you want to call it) I assumed they all died in the plane crash (or maybe elsewhere) and everything on the island never happened. I think I may have been wrong about that. Having said that, I don't get why people seem to think that those who didn't get what was happening is stupid. Can these people honestly say they never misunderstood a single thing that happened in Lost over the last six years?

It would have been nice to see how life worked out for those that made it off the island. Did they get home? Did Sawyer ever meet his daughter? I wanted to see how their lives worked out more than how their afterlives worked out. It seemed like the writers were saying "they're all happy in the afterlife so we don't have to explain anything else".

By the way the highlight of the episode was seeing Vincent again.

jimbling · 25-05-2010 11:54AM

7

seadnamac wrote: »

He touches the empty coffin and has a flashback of his life on the island. Christian then appears. The jist;
J; "How are you here"
C; "How are you here"
J; "I died too.........Are you real?"
C; "I sure hope so, yea I'm real, everything that ever happened to you is real, all those people in the church, they're all real too"

I don't see a distinction. So everyone in the church is real, but the church isn't? Because if it was wouldn't everything else in the world of the FST be real aswell?

The way I see it:
Each one of the "Losties" or associated characters, were brought to a realisation. All of the connections we saw, all the glimpses we saw, that was each lostie coming to terms with what was going on. They were dead. The world around them was not real. They were letting go.....

Letting go of what? Letting go of the FST/Purgatory etc (btw, I agree with SP that calling it purgatory is incorrect. Not sure, Limbo?). This is why they all just walked away. Juliet walked away from her son in limbo world...why? because she knew he wasn't really part of her life.... that her life there was only imaginary...so to speak.

So basically, when Christian was talking about what was Real he is talking about his life, his Island life was real. He is currently real. Dead, yes, but Real. I never took it that the limbo life or the people in it were real (except for the other dead losties he needed to connect with etc)

There's never going to be a perfect explanation. You're never going to know for sure, so if you can't accept what everyone is saying then mores the pity. You will probably go on hating the show for the wrong reasons.

Does it not strike you that 90% of the people here are in agreement about the main concept though? Yes, plenty people have little differences and it's always going to be like that. But in whole, there is agreement and consensus

jimbling · 25-05-2010 11:55AM

7

lensman wrote: »

If you ever watched the movie "jacobs ladder" then it's quite simple,..
1..the plane crashed on a normal every day island,..not a magic island
2..all people were killed outright except Jack.
3..jack dies also but in his dying moments his weaking/fading mind constructs the whole elaborate senario,.. so everything we seen over 6 series of lost was jack's dying thoughts. the dreamscape starts & ends with jack on his back in the bamboo forest...you might ask why jack was in a suit in s1 ep1 as he lay in the bamboo forest but was in tee shirt & jeans in s6 ep18,..well the dreamscape had already begun from that very first sequence,...BTW the only life form that survived the plane crash was the dog,.

You're clearly wrong. Read the thread. Watch the episode again.

johnny_ultimate · 25-05-2010 11:58AM

9

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

It would have been nice to see how life worked out for those that made it off the island. Did they get home? Did Sawyer ever meet his daughter? I wanted to see how their lives worked out more than how their afterlives worked out. It seemed like the writers were saying "they're all happy in the afterlife so we don't have to explain anything else".

By the way the highlight of the episode was seeing Vincent again.

At the end of the day, my feeling on it is that the main story is over. Everyone who has survived continues on with their lives, probably seperately. The core Lost story - i.e. the adventures on the island - is over for everyone but Hurley and Ben. They've gotten off safely, and the rest is up to us to figure out.

You could also argue that the whole show has been Jack's story. Once he closes his eyes at the end, his narrative has reached it's (reality) conclusion. Of course every other character was important to the overall story, and they all had their own episodes, but he was the glue that held it all together, and was the closest thing Lost had to a protagonist.

gazzer · 25-05-2010 11:59AM

9

Im sorry if this was posted and answered already but was the church the same place where Eloise had her Dharma station?

How Soon Is Now · 25-05-2010 11:59AM

8

lensman wrote: »

If you ever watched the movie "jacobs ladder" then it's quite simple,..
1..the plane crashed on a normal every day island,..not a magic island
2..all people were killed outright except Jack.
3..jack dies also but in his dying moments his weaking/fading mind constructs the whole elaborate senario,.. so everything we seen over 6 series of lost was jack's dying thoughts. the dreamscape starts & ends with jack on his back in the bamboo forest...you might ask why jack was in a suit in s1 ep1 as he lay in the bamboo forest but was in tee shirt & jeans in s6 ep18,..well the dreamscape had already begun from that very first sequence,...BTW the only life form that survived the plane crash was the dog,.

I dunno weather to laugh or cry

seadnamac · 25-05-2010 11:59AM

5

jimbling wrote: »

The way I see it:
Each one of the "Losties" or associated characters, were brought to a realisation. All of the connections we saw, all the glimpses we saw, that was each lostie coming to terms with what was going on. They were dead. The world around them was not real. They were letting go.....

Letting go of what? Letting go of the FST/Purgatory etc (btw, I agree with SP that calling it purgatory is incorrect. Not sure, Limbo?). This is why they all just walked away. Juliet walked away from her son in limbo world...why? because she knew he wasn't really part of her life.... that her life there was only imaginary...so to speak.

So basically, when Christian was talking about what was Real he is talking about his life, his Island life was real. He is currently real. Dead, yes, but Real. I never took it that the limbo life or the people in it were real (except for the other dead losties he needed to connect with etc)

There's never going to be a perfect explanation. You're never going to know for sure, so if you can't accept what everyone is saying then mores the pity. You will probably go on hating the show for the wrong reasons.

Does it not strike you that 90% of the people here are in agreement about the main concept though? Yes, plenty people have little differences and it's always going to be like that. But in whole, there is agreement and consensus

What?? Are you serious? This is the first time that this ambigousness in what Christian said has been brought up and it was something that had been genuinely bugging me. Jesus Christ some people in this place are f*cking condesending.

bossa_nova · 25-05-2010 12:00PM

9

lensman wrote: »

If you ever watched the movie "jacobs ladder" then it's quite simple,..
1..the plane crashed on a normal every day island,..not a magic island
2..all people were killed outright except Jack.
3..jack dies also but in his dying moments his weaking/fading mind constructs the whole elaborate senario,.. so everything we seen over 6 series of lost was jack's dying thoughts. the dreamscape starts & ends with jack on his back in the bamboo forest...you might ask why jack was in a suit in s1 ep1 as he lay in the bamboo forest but was in tee shirt & jeans in s6 ep18,..well the dreamscape had already begun from that very first sequence,...BTW the only life form that survived the plane crash was the dog,.

it clearly was vincent that thought of it all

Penn · 25-05-2010 12:02PM

9

lensman wrote: »

If you ever watched the movie "jacobs ladder" then it's quite simple,..
1..the plane crashed on a normal every day island,..not a magic island
2..all people were killed outright except Jack.
3..jack dies also but in his dying moments his weaking/fading mind constructs the whole elaborate senario,.. so everything we seen over 6 series of lost was jack's dying thoughts. the dreamscape starts & ends with jack on his back in the bamboo forest...you might ask why jack was in a suit in s1 ep1 as he lay in the bamboo forest but was in tee shirt & jeans in s6 ep18,..well the dreamscape had already begun from that very first sequence,...BTW the only life form that survived the plane crash was the dog,.

erm... This isn't Jacobs Ladder

[US/IRL] 6x17/18 - "The End" (2.5 Hour Series Finale) [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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[US/IRL] 6x17/18 - "The End" (2.5 Hour Series Finale) [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]