[US/IRL] 6x17/18 - "The End" (2.5 Hour Series Finale) [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

Mitch Connor · 25-05-2010 09:58AM

Berkut wrote: »

And you're quite happy with this?
I mean the finale doesn't make you question anything in Lost or anything that you could change in the ending?
What about the obvious gaps in the end with Penny?
What bout Ecko and all the other lost characters that were missing?
What happened to them? If the island was the big connection then obviously more people than Ben should have been outside.
It's possible Ecko moved on already as his brother was already dead but then we have Penny...why should she have spent life in limbo all because Desmond has to meet up with the rest of the gang? Surely his connection to her was far stronger? From the start of Lost Desmond had this connection to Penny and the ending seems to suggest that it didn't mean jack.

What are you going on about re. Desmond and Penny? Why didn't it mean jack? Desmond was always special regarding the island and the losties.

It is not that every single person on the island or had ever been there wanted to move on together, it was the people who had grown close and been important to each other on the island.

When you die, if you are given the chance to 'cross over' would you prefer to do it with the people you loved, or every single person you had ever met in your life, and everyone they had ever met, and everyone they had ever met, etc.

seadnamac · 25-05-2010 09:59AM

5

angerfist2009 wrote: »

So really honestly ok what did you want them to explain that they did not?? What huge part of the show did they not give you an answer to?

I don't know if you're series but anyway. The rules. The time travel. Eloise Hawking. Widmore .vs. Ben. The numbers. The island itself. The power of the protector. For a start.

People are now mentioning these as if they were just some unimportant passing reference in the show. These were huge issues, introduced by the writers to get people to watch the f*cking show!

prinz · 25-05-2010 10:00AM

9

Berkut wrote: »

What about the obvious gaps in the end with Penny?

The island and Des were the most important things in her life. She shared that with the Lost crew.

Berkut wrote: »

What bout Ecko and all the other lost characters that were missing?
What happened to them? If the island was the big connection then obviously more people than Ben should have been outside.
It's possible Ecko moved on already as his brother was already dead but then we have Penny...why should she have spent life in limbo all because Desmond has to meet up with the rest of the gang? Surely his connection to her was far stronger? From the start of Lost Desmond had this connection to Penny and the ending seems to suggest that it didn't mean jack..

Yes some people could move on earlier maybe later. It doesn't mean there has to be a queue with Ben outside. Penny didn't a 'lifetime' in purgatory because as Christian said time wasn't the same there as we know. It would have been instantaneous after death. Same way as Jack's FST 'lifetime' passed in the blink of an eye.

Berkut wrote: »

In my opinion anyone that claims to be completely happy with this ending is a moron who can't think for himself or is lying his ass off.

That's ironic, considering the amount of people who obviously can't understand basic english.

The Rook · 25-05-2010 10:00AM

9

Dharma Initiative - Scientists trying to make sense of the EM forces. Besides giving the characters time to develop (Sawyer & Juliette etc ) it provied access for Juliette to set off the bomb, without it the rest would not have happened.

The Others - Followers of Jacob, without them you wouldn't have had Ben or Richard, both of whom are vital to the ending

The smoke monster - No you're right here , the Smoke Monster wasn't in the end ...oh hang on he WAS , yeah that's right, in the form of Locke. He coudln't turn into Smokey because Desmond pulled the plug

Whitmore - Who brought Desmond back to the Island so that he coudl pull out the Source Plug ...that's right...Widmore !!

Bens battle - Still hadn't atoned for his sins himself at the end and wasn't ready to move on

The strange electro magnetic forces ....ehhhh what were the white lights when Desmond pulled out the source plug?!!

The polar bears - Explained in something like Season 2 where the scientists had all manner of animals trying to see if they could conceive on the island.

Ghosts - The souls of all those who died on the Island, atill hanging around...

Ancient monuments - Who knows, it's hardly integral to the plot!

Mitch Connor · 25-05-2010 10:01AM

seadnamac wrote: »

Ah come on man, we know nothing. Huge portions of the shows were dedicated to issues that have gone unresloved or given some ****ty shoehorned explanation. The time travel, Widmore .vs. Ben and the numbers were at least season long arcs in themselves. Like I said these were some of the issues that got Lost a large portion of its audience in the first place.

what about widmore vs ben?

One wanted to protect the island (ben) the other either wanted to destroy it or corrupt it for financial gain (widmore)

Widmore coming back to stop the MIB escaping was a new choice in season 6, having met and spoken to Jacob - so the fact both were on the same side at the end doesn't mean they were really on the same side all along.

Basq · 25-05-2010 10:02AM

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JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Matthew Fox deserves an Emmy nomination for best actor drama sorry I cant give him a win thats for Michael C Hall for Dexter

Well.. Michael C Hall got his for season 4!

Let's see how season 5 pans out.. but to honest, the guy never fails to give a top-class performance.

seadnamac · 25-05-2010 10:05AM

5

Mitch Connor wrote: »

what about widmore vs ben?

One wanted to protect the island (ben) the other either wanted to destroy it or corrupt it for financial gain (widmore)

Widmore coming back to stop the MIB escaping was a new choice in season 6, having met and spoken to Jacob - so the fact both were on the same side at the end doesn't mean they were really on the same side all along.

Are we even sure about that? My point is that it given a whole season where it was the most important thing in the show. By the final season it was irrevalent (their conflict, not them themselves). It was filler. Complete and utter filler.

prinz · 25-05-2010 10:05AM

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seadnamac wrote: »

I don't know if you're series but anyway. The rules.

Got an answer. The island protector could basicaly run the island however they wanted.

seadnamac wrote: »

The time travel..

Was neccessary to tie some of the story lines together.

seadnamac wrote: »

Eloise Hawking...

She was a real woman. After she died she wanted to stay forever in her 'purgatory' because that's where she had her family together and safe.

seadnamac wrote: »

Widmore .vs. Ben. ...

Power struggle. Both wanted to be in charge of the island.

seadnamac wrote: »

The numbers....

Recurring joke. They were numbers Jacob had given to the candidates. They never meant anything special.

seadnamac wrote: »

The island itself. ....

It's television, it's sci-fi, it's make believe. The island was the island. Nothing in the story really hinges on knowing what the island was.

seadnamac wrote: »

The power of the protector. For a start.....

Came with the job.

seadnamac wrote: »

These were huge issues, introduced by the writers to get people to watch the f*cking show!

Isn't that their job?

FutureGuy · 25-05-2010 10:05AM

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Berkut wrote: »

In my opinion anyone that claims to be completely happy with this ending is a moron who can't think for himself or is lying his ass off.

You ask some questions with painfully obvious answers and you call others morons because they can't think for themselves. Surely spoon feeding answers, as you seem to have wanted, requires no thinking?

prinz · 25-05-2010 10:06AM

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seadnamac wrote: »

Are we even sure about that?

We were told that clearly in the show. So yeah I reckon we can be sure.

seadnamac · 25-05-2010 10:10AM

5

prinz wrote: »

Got an answer. The island protector could basicaly run the island however they wanted.

Was neccessary to tie some of the story lines together.

She was a real woman. After she died she wanted to stay forever in her 'purgatory' because that's where she had her family together and safe.

Power struggle. Both wanted to be in charge of the island.

Recurring joke. They were numbers Jacob had given to the candidates. They never meant anything special.

It's television, it's sci-fi, it's make believe. The island was the island. Nothing in the story really hinges on knowing what the island was.

Came with the job.

Isn't that their job?

Hahahaha, man they are some weakass answers. You should be a spin doctor.

prinz · 25-05-2010 10:12AM

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seadnamac wrote: »

Hahahaha, man they are some weakass answers. You should be a spin doctor.

They can all be found in the show itself. I really think we need a Father Ted like Dreams/Reality flashcard for some people... except with TV/Reality.

Mitch Connor · 25-05-2010 10:12AM

seadnamac wrote: »

Are we even sure about that? My point is that it given a whole season where it was the most important thing in the show. By the final season it was irrevalent (their conflict, not them themselves). It was filler. Complete and utter filler.

so you wanted a show that couldn't change and charators that would follow the same mindset from day 1 to day n?

Fair enough.

I am happy enough to see that people can change, and do what is right for mankind rather than their own selfish ends.

seadnamac · 25-05-2010 10:12AM

5

prinz wrote: »

They can all be found in the show itself.

Awesome. Thank you for that.

seadnamac · 25-05-2010 10:15AM

5

Mitch Connor wrote: »

so you wanted a show that couldn't change and charators that would follow the same mindset from day 1 to day n?

Fair enough.

I am happy enough to see that people can change, and do what is right for mankind rather than their own selfish ends.

You've selected the, admittidly (sp?), worst example from my list.

Fair enough.

Penn · 25-05-2010 10:15AM

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20goto10 wrote: »

Right so you agree the mysteries was just filler? Anyone who says lost was never about the mysteries, mythology and sci-fi is talking complete and utter tripe. They've been taken hook, line and sinker.

Not filler. Take The Wire for example. Every season they introduced something new, drug trade, ports, government, schools, media. But all the stories were about the characters. The show was about the characters. Yes, Lost had a lot of mysteries, time travel, gian black smoke monsters etc, but that isn't the story. The show was about the characters.

The show HAD mysteries, mythology and sci-fi, but it was never ABOUT those things. They added mystery and excitement, suspense, disbelief, shock and awe. But it was mostly about how these characters come through these things together, having to make sacrifices for their beliefs, making mistakes due to their lack of faith, having to come to trust these people who they have been stranded on an island with and learning to resolve their personal issues.

Would any answers about the mysteries of the island have been satisfactory? We got an explaination about the whispers and people complained. We got an explaination about how smokey was created and people called it a terrible episode. would you have been happy with the episode if when Jack and Locke met up, Jack said that he wants to know about the island and they both sat down and the next 2 hours were Locke explaining things like who built the statue and why women can't get pregnant on the island?

Mitch Connor · 25-05-2010 10:15AM

even the biggest fan, if they are honest, will admit that there is some weakness in the show.

The answer for what the numbers are representing is weak. While it explains what they are, it doesn't explain why some nutter was repeating them over and over, or why they were on the hatch, or why they were the numbers that had to be entered every 108 minutes.

Lothaar v2 · 25-05-2010 10:15AM

5

So the alt timeline was actually purgatory, eh? And they all end up in a church while Christian Shepherd leads them into a light? Hmm...

I fvcking GUARANTEE that the writers' original plan was for the whole show to be purgatory. When everyone in the world copped on and said, "My theory is that it's purgatory and they're all LOST souls (geddit?)!", they denied it and started trying to think of an alternative ending so the show could run for longer.

In the end they created this alternate reality and made THAT purgatory, which does 'explain' some things... but it's just weak. I'm sure if you called them out on it, they'd say: "Aha, we said the island wasn't purgatory. But we never said anything about a parallel reality being purgatory!" Oh Darlton, you sly dog - you got me!

A show called Lost, with so many obviously religious references from the very start, and with everything pointing to it being purgatory... was always going to be purgatory and lost souls looking for redemption. Everyone figured that out in Season 1. From that moment - the moment we all realised it was purgatory - the writers were merely attempting to distract us... to con us into thinking it was something else.

I don't care if they didn't answer all the mysteries. The core plot of the show was the emotional and physical journey the characters went on. That was the ONLY part of the show that was solid, whereas so much of the peripheral elements were misdirection.

I am SO disappointed with the last few minutes of that ending. What a complete load of cobblers. It would have been a beautiful ending if the show had only run for one or two seasons... but with all of the other crap that we watched that turned out to be completely irrelevant, and the intense denials of the obvious purgatory theme... I feel very ripped off.

I guess, ultimately, I believed in the writers. I don't know why - just like Desmond pushing the button - I just did. But I was wrong.

Lost, as a series, was supremely entertaining. And for that I'm thankful.

Basq · 25-05-2010 10:16AM

9

Berkut wrote: »

In my opinion anyone that claims to be completely happy with this ending is a moron who can't think for himself or is lying his ass off.

Easy now "little sunshine"! :pac:

You go around calling people morons and I'm gonna treat you like one.

Now cut it out!

JP Liz V1 · 25-05-2010 10:17AM

9

basquille wrote: »

Well.. Michael C Hall got his for season 4!

Let's see how season 5 pans out.. but to honest, the guy never fails to give a top-class performance.

No Hall never won the Emmy he did win the SAG and GG awards this year for best actor drama - Fox has never even been nominated for a Emmy for his work on Lost

Blazer · 25-05-2010 10:18AM

prinz wrote: »

The island and Des were the most important things in her life. She shared that with the Lost crew.

.

Penny didn't give a rat's ass about the island...show me one episode that verifies that the island was important to her.

seadnamac · 25-05-2010 10:18AM

5

prinz wrote: »

They can all be found in the show itself. I really think we need a Father Ted like Dreams/Reality flashcard for some people... except with TV/Reality.

Right. I'm not here to be condesended just because I disagree with someone. There is no need for the f*cking attitude.

Mitch Connor · 25-05-2010 10:20AM

Berkut wrote: »

Penny didn't give a rat's ass about the island...show me one episode that verifies that the island was important to her.

Desmond was important to her, and the island was important to him (brought them back together)

Basq · 25-05-2010 10:21AM

9

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

No Hall never won the Emmy he did win the SAG and GG awards this year for best actor drama - Fox has never even been nominated for a Emmy for his work on Lost

Yeah, sorry.. was thinking of the Golden Globes.

Linguo · 25-05-2010 10:22AM

The fact everyone is getting to heated about the finale just shows that people really cared about it! What do people think happened to the losties who managed to get off on the plane? Do you think Sawyer and Kate got together again? How do people think Desmond managed to get back off the island or did he at all??

seadnamac · 25-05-2010 10:24AM

5

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

Not filler. Take The Wire for example. Every season they introduced something new, drug trade, ports, government, schools, media. But all the stories were about the characters. The show was about the characters. Yes, Lost had a lot of mysteries, time travel, gian black smoke monsters etc, but that isn't the story. The show was about the characters.

The show HAD mysteries, mythology and sci-fi, but it was never ABOUT those things. They added mystery and excitement, suspense, disbelief, shock and awe. But it was mostly about how these characters come through these things together, having to make sacrifices for their beliefs, making mistakes due to their lack of faith, having to come to trust these people who they have been stranded on an island with and learning to resolve their personal issues.

Would any answers about the mysteries of the island have been satisfactory? We got an explaination about the whispers and people complained. We got an explaination about how smokey was created and people called it a terrible episode. would you have been happy with the episode if when Jack and Locke met up, Jack said that he wants to know about the island and they both sat down and the next 2 hours were Locke explaining things like who built the statue and why women can't get pregnant on the island?

I think a lot of people, including myself disagree with that. As far as I'm concerned they introduced all these mysteries to get people to watch the show and to keep people watching the show. By that reasoning, is it not fair to say that a large portion of their audience was in it for the mystery? And if so, would it not be reasonable to suggest that if that's why people are watching the show, then that's what the show becomes about, at least to some degree?

prinz · 25-05-2010 10:26AM

9

Berkut wrote: »

Penny didn't give a rat's ass about the island...show me one episode that verifies that the island was important to her.

Oh yeah you're right, it was just the defining theme in her own life (searching for Des) in her lovers life (Des stuck there and helped save it), her fathers life (lived there as a young adult, spent his life looking for it to go back and died there), her mothers life (lived there as an other, killed her own son there, manned the DI post that could actually find the island, was central to sending the losties back to it), her brothers life (went to island, was killed by his mother above)..... but you're right was obvious she didn't give a rats ass. :rolleyes:

seadnamac wrote: »

Right. I'm not here to be condesended just because I disagree with someone. There is no need for the f*cking attitude.

Who said that was directed at you?

Mitch Connor · 25-05-2010 10:26AM

Linguo wrote: »

The fact everyone is getting to heated about the finale just shows that people really cared about it! What do people think happened to the losties who managed to get off on the plane? Do you think Sawyer and Kate got together again? How do people think Desmond managed to get back off the island or did he at all??

the way Kate says she missed Jack so much, I don't think she did get together with Sawyer - Julliett was his soul mate, as Jack was to Kate.

It doesn't really matter how Desmond got off the island, maybe by boat - people could leave the island (as the others did on many occassions) so it is very possible to leave.

Blazer · 25-05-2010 10:26AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Desmond was important to her, and the island was important to him (brought them back together)

I'll let you off with that I suppose

I still feel cheated in that I hoped this show was more than a simple story about people dying, in limbo and moving on. Big fúcking deal...hello sixth sense :mad:
I wanted LOST to be about the Island but in the end it was about the characters.
It's a pity really as some of the best episodes were about Jacob and the MIB.
In fact the best ep in LOST was the finale of Season 5 when we met Jacob and MIB for the very first time.

prinz · 25-05-2010 10:27AM

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seadnamac wrote: »

I think a lot of people, including myself disagree with that. As far as I'm concerned they introduced all these mysteries to get people to watch the show and to keep people watching the show.

Characters don't work too well in a vacuum. If they had spent everyday sitting on the beach looking at the sea would it ever have been made? Like every tv show and every film there's a plot to add interest, it doesn't mean that the plot supercedes the characters as the focus of the show.

[US/IRL] 6x17/18 - "The End" (2.5 Hour Series Finale) [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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[US/IRL] 6x17/18 - "The End" (2.5 Hour Series Finale) [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]