[US/IRL] 6x17/18 - "The End" (2.5 Hour Series Finale) [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

Rabidlamb · 25-05-2010 12:45AM

5

I would have believed the purgatory/moving on argument only Penny was there.
The first hour & a half was some of the best Lost ever.
I'm sad they writers couldn't give us a more definite conclusion.

The main part of the episode 9/10.
The alt sideways/purgatory thingy at the end 2/10.

Pity, cause I loved the faithful dog lying beside Jack.

Creasy_bear · 25-05-2010 12:47AM

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

A Good Explanation of the final for people still confused

In the final confrontation. Desmond was the only person who could go down into the light and unplug the cork. By unplugging the cork. The island lost all power. When the island lost all power ALL THE RULES COULD NOW BE BROKEN. Smokey/MIB lost all of his powers which made him mortal again but at the same time he could now kill the candidates directly. At the same time the island without its power was being destroyed…probably the whole world was being destroyed like “Mother” told her kids on what would happen if the light went out.

So MIB was now mortal and after a confrontation with Jack, he was finally killed. But the island needed to be re-plugged. Jack did this and sacrificed himself for the island. Hurley was left to be the new Jacob and Ben was his new “Richard” It appears that they had a successful long future not unseen but as Hurley told Ben in the ALT (which I am going to get into) “you were a good number 2” Ben: you were a good number 1” As for the people on the plane it appears that they escaped the island and probably lived happy lives back in the main land. The ones probably back in the island lived happy lives, like Rose Bernard, Cindy and the kids. As for Desmond he probably was able to get back to his family as well thanks to Hurley and Ben. Jack’s dying body was thrown out of the cave (like MIB’s body In Across the sea). He laid there dying looking up when Vincent came over and as he looked up and saw that the Ajira plane had been able to leave. He closed his eye and died.

Eventually like everyone does, they all died, from old age or however. (including Richard who started to finally age). Hurley probably died long after everyone else once he found his own candidate. When they finally died their “spirits” joined the others who had died before during the course of the series, they were in this type of “purgatory” which in season 6 was the ALT reality. Once in this purgatory, once they “woke up” or realized that they were in reality dead. They were able to “cross-over” probably to a type of heaven depending on your spiritual views. They lived happily ever after, in the great beyond.

So Hurley was the new Jacob, how did he die

gustavo · 25-05-2010 12:47AM

9

R.Shackleford wrote: »

I really dont know what to make of the plane flying over head at the end.

Was that not just Richard Lapidus etc flying the Ajiira off the island ?

Fantastic episode btw I was so emotional throughout and whilst the "mysteries" part of the whole thing might have been left unanswered they gave the characters themselves a fitting ending IMO

Nalz · 25-05-2010 12:50AM

Read it anyway you please - as ignorance, in total agreement or in any other way but....

THAT ENDING WAS ABSOLUTE BOLLOX

gustavo · 25-05-2010 12:51AM

9

Trilla wrote: »

Read it any way to please - as ignorance, in total agreement or any other way

wat

MisterAnarchy · 25-05-2010 12:52AM

7

Some good quotes I saw elsewhere :

Essentially it boils down to this.

They got to season 6 and realised they couldn't answer anything!
So they wrote in the "alt-timeline" which seemed to tie in with the rest of the show... because it was supposed to be created with the bomb, however it wasn't an alt timeline, it was purgatory. This purgatory timeline didnt affect or tie in with the show or any other series in ANY way, and was purely included so they could answer it with a big twist and hope we all forgot about all the other un-answered questions.

I've had a revelation. I was SO angry at the end of Lost. I wondered why I had got up at 5am to be told very little.

But then it occured to me. I was thinking as a man of science.

But as a man of faith - it was perfect in every way.

thought the ending was a cop out and pretty live up to such a low expectation of nothing explained and a bollocks of everyone is dead in a dreamworld after leaving or dying on the island.....and they all lived happily ever after

But the magic of the show was never about the characters and a "will they wont they" ross and rachel ending doesnt quite cut it! The show was about the mythology and the sci-fi element. They asked loads of questions to keep us watching... and answered none of them

i think all the confusion lies in people expecting a game changer ending or some big answer. the fact is we never got any. the only answer was the alt-timeline was infact purgatory. people seem to want to apply this answer to the whole of lost in an attempt to answer the big questions raised throughout the series, when in reality... we never got any.

Orion · 25-05-2010 12:54AM

JDee wrote: »

They did not die all at once. The sideways is some sort of passage for the afterlife so they can meet up before they move on. They all died eventually.

Ashes to Ashes did it better.

Lost finale = waste of 6 years.

stevejazzx · 25-05-2010 12:54AM

stevejazzx wrote: »

So the evil Locke as one part of a duo of Egyptian? gods is fed up with judging the souls of those trapped in a 'limbo', people whose fate hangs in the balance and their choices on the island dictate whether or not they will have good lives and pass from the gateway back to their respective realities.
This god (who is trapped himself in this limbo) has had enough; people were not choosing evil; they were choosing good. So he's found a loophole (have a mortal kill his partner) in the rules to kill his co-god (the good guy Jacob) and now he's building a little evil army of islanders in anticipation of destroying the gateway (island) because he does not believe people deserve a chance at redemption and maybe becasue noone can replace him unlike Jacobs position, which is up for candidacy. Now this is all very nice but it doesn't exactly relate to the first 2 seasons; vaguely to 3; slightly better 4&5 and now is moving somewhat slowly in the 6th despite killing a bunch of unknowns tonight in a not so shocking episode. If someone was to plot out on a piece of paper the entire story of lost consecutively from season 1 episode by episode it would make little sense. It's disappointing the writers have not referenced other majors events (i.e the season finale endings to date remember the scientists discovering the electric magnetic anomaly for Penny to find Desmond?). Without this complex cross referencing the show makes little if any sense; there is some time left, still a chance they might connect the 108 billion dots they've left behind but it seems from season 6 to date that the newest dots are all that count. In this episode we at least get further evidence that gods were somehow off island (not really explained but anyways) and recruiting for their candidacy (the story of Dogens son).
This explains how losties end up connected at least. I need more of this for the show to come full circle.

Dempsey wrote: »

Sorry steve, your well off the mark

The pugartory/limbo theory has been squashed by the writers

Hmmmm. wish you were right dempsey - this ending was atrocious.

johnny_ultimate · 25-05-2010 12:56AM

9

podge018 wrote: »

That's the part I can't get. When did this start. Were they born in the alt reality? Somebody said earlier it started on the plane but..... I don't buy that.

Well, a popular theory is that it started as a result of the hydrogen bomb back at the end of last season.

As for whether they were born or not, again no conclusive answers. I like to think that it was purgatory in the sense that the characters were placed in relatively unfulfilling circumstances - while some of them may have been moderately comfortable (Jack with his son for example), they all had something missing in their lives. Hence the purgatory - an existence, but not the favourable one. The reuniting with the others meant they finally had their happy ending. I'm not sure whether they were born there or not - what I like to think that it started with the plane. They all awaken in the plane, the purgatory reality is one they've accepted, or has been implanted. They have to accept that there is a better conclusion waiting for them, which they all do (except Ben perhaps, who never had that 'constant', although Alex would possibly be one). Again, all a personal interpretation.

Man, never thought I'd buy into this spiritual nonsense. I've debated more about purgatory in Lost then I ever have in actual spiritual discussions (in which my usual cynical atheist responses come out). Damn you Lost!

johnjoe65 · 25-05-2010 12:57AM

7

Creasy_bear wrote: »

So Hurley was the new Jacob, how did he die

hurley eventually found his own replacment just like jacob did

expectationlost · 25-05-2010 01:06AM

prinz wrote: »

It was an island. Just a magic island.

you can keep on saying that doesn't mean its correct

expectationlost · 25-05-2010 01:09AM

so this were the writers saying to all the people who tried to figure out the island you idiots you wasted your time it was about the characters stories

Rabidlamb · 25-05-2010 01:15AM

5

I can believe about those who died on or experienced the Island.
Penny was a normal person who existed outside The Island affect.
Why was she shown in the purgatory scene ?.

blandatious · 25-05-2010 01:16AM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

OK, will try and explain this one more time, has been said loads of time before (not being short or anything though, hopefully will answer your question).

The 'purgatory' takes place at some unspecified time in the future. This could be centuries, millenia, whatever. At this point, everyone who has survived the activity on the island has died. This does not mean they died at the end of the episode. Many of them may well have died at an extremely old age, Ben and Hurley in particular.

This purgatory timeline takes place at an unspecified time, and in fact time may not even be an issue. Once everyone has died, they have been gathered in this place - through vague philosophical ideas suggested by Christian - to reunite and realise how important they were all to each other. Only then can they 'move on' fulfilled.

Now, the reason everyone is the same age is because they were all familiar with each other from their island days. Aaron is a child because he was a child on the island (even though he could have died in his 100s, or his 20s, whatever).

I have read the whole thread and the specific question about Aaron has not been answered and you have not either (not being short)
Penny was never on the island so was has the church seen got to do with "how important they were to each other". How many other people in the church even knew her? Her presence throws your theory. How is it Sun and Jins child is not there at the age Sun would have remembered her? I also believe the church scene was beyond the unspecified time of FST or purgatory. All the people in there were ready to move on, purgatory was complete. Everyone in the room was dead and ready to move on with the people most important to them. So was a mother he never really knew the most important person in Aaron's life if he lived to 20 or even 100 as you say? Would he not have befriended/married/had his own children ?

expectationlost · 25-05-2010 01:22AM

i know this is final ep thread but why is everyone trying explain the whole based on the last season? /purgatory

johnny_ultimate · 25-05-2010 01:30AM

9

blandatious wrote: »

I have read the whole thread and the specific question about Aaron has not been answered and you have not either (not being short)
Penny was never on the island so was has the church seen got to do with "how important they were to each other". How many other people in the church even knew her? Her presence throws your theory. How is it Sun and Jins child is not there at the age Sun would have remembered her? I also believe the church scene was beyond the unspecified time of FST or purgatory. All the people in there were ready to move on, purgatory was complete. Everyone in the room was dead and ready to move on with the people most important to them. So was a mother he never really knew the most important person in Aaron's life if he lived to 20 or even 100 as you say? Would he not have befriended/married/had his own children ?

I think the 'reunion' aspect was of importance. Most of the significant players reunited before they moved on, perhaps they were there to share their moments of insight with each other. Maybe they couldn't really move on until they had all accepted the purgatory - Jack only buys into it once Christian has explained it to him, moments before the 'light'.

Penny, you have a point. Although she did play a part in the drama, and she acted as Desmond's constant. Can't fully explain that though.

As for Aaron, well Claire had returned home on the plane so we can assume that she probably played a significant role in his life. Can't forget how important Kate was in that too.

Two points I'd make, although I know not everyone will accept them: anyone who wasn't there may have moved on already, or had their own issues to deal with (like Sun and Jin's child). For me, though, I'm not going to nitpick because I think as a visual and thematic conclusion it was a great moment. Yeah, you have a point about Penny and the like, but ultimately what appealed to me was all these characters reuniting (which IMO may have been a central neccesity for moving on) in one place. Yeah, I'm sure many people had significant roles in these characters post-island life, but on a practical level having hundreds of strangers would have been cluttered. On a story level, maybe it was this reunion, in which everyone shared their experiences, was the moment that allowed all these characters to join everyone else they knew later on.

Snake Plisken · 25-05-2010 01:32AM

9

What would have been nice would have been Sun & Jin with their Daughter re-united in the Church, Double the tears if they had put that in!

McSandwich · 25-05-2010 01:36AM

Trying to get my head around it...

Earlier this season we were led to believe that the "flash sideways" followed their lives as if the crash hadn't happened - though, amongst other things, we knew Jack didn't have a son, Locke wasn't on good terms with his Dad, and Sayer wasn't a cop..

So the flash sideways turns out to be a purgatory type place - ok but what does it have to do with the rest of the story (aside from a way to end things)? As has been said, maybe it was their purgatory. But dead people also "lived" on the island, was it a purgatory too or were they trapped their by the smoke monster?

In the church at the end, they walk into the light - together. Maybe this was the light on the island, their passage made possible by Desmond and Jack's actions (time being irrelevant in purgatory). The church looked like the one where they previously travelled back to the island with Eloise.

BTW, did anyone see the final episode of Ashes to Ashes?

McSandwich · 25-05-2010 01:40AM

seadnamac wrote: »

As above, Christian tells Jack that EVERYTHING he has experienced is real and everyone he has known is real. He doesn't make a distinction between his life in purgatory and his island life. Are we not to assume that Jack should assume his son to have been real aswell? And thus, everything else in the FST, as suggested by Christian, to be real?

And if everything that happened after Jack died was just as real as everything that happened beforehand, then is the line between what was reality and what came after it not somewhat blurred?

It just occurred to me that the EVERYTHING might include things which happened in their alternative lives (due to all the time travelling).

blandatious · 25-05-2010 01:42AM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I think the 'reunion' aspect was of importance. Most of the significant players reunited before they moved on, perhaps they were there to share their moments of insight with each other. Maybe they couldn't really move on until they had all accepted the purgatory - Jack only buys into it once Christian has explained it to him, moments before the 'light'.

Penny, you have a point. Although she did play a part in the drama, and she acted as Desmond's constant. Can't fully explain that though.

As for Aaron, well Claire had returned home on the plane so we can assume that she probably played a significant role in his life. Can't forget how important Kate was in that too.

Two points I'd make, although I know not everyone will accept them: anyone who wasn't there may have moved on already, or had their own issues to deal with (like Sun and Jin's child). For me, though, I'm not going to nitpick because I think as a visual and thematic conclusion it was a great moment. Yeah, you have a point about Penny and the like, but ultimately what appealed to me was all these characters reuniting (which IMO may have been a central neccesity for moving on) in one place. Yeah, I'm sure many people had significant roles in these characters post-island life, but on a practical level having hundreds of strangers would have been cluttered. On a story level, maybe it was this reunion, in which everyone shared their experiences, was the moment that allowed all these characters to join everyone else they knew later on.

I agree I thought it was concluded very well. I am only really nitpicking because a couple of small things are at odds with my own perception of the thing. I think fitting Aaron in was a tricky one for the makers as surely neither Kate nor Claire and by extension Jack and Charlie would have wished to move on without him. It probably doesn't all add up perfectly if you thought about it but there is far more right than wrong!

Rob! · 25-05-2010 01:43AM

9

to be honest i lik that they left some things unanswered; i didn't want the show to lose all its sense of mystery when it ended.

As for penny......we dont know the future past jacks death. i.e. what hurley and ben did st a l8r time. And as desmond was alive at the end, penny could have very well went to, and indeed played a significant part on the island at a l8r stage.

Id agree on the light of the island being linked with the light in the church too. That's why it was so important to protect. it is the bridge to the next life that they were ultimately protecting.

tony1kenobi · 25-05-2010 01:43AM

I read the first 13 pages and promise to read the rest...so if it has been said already I apologise.....but in my opinion...

...They were dead before we ever met them....just like another show that finaled in the last few days...

I was happy enough with the end and don't care that the writers lied...if they had said 5 years ago"yup..you're right"....would we have bothered watching?

Wonderful show with a more that satisfying end....I have my questions of course...I'll ask them later.

blodvyn · 25-05-2010 01:46AM

9

I think everyone is dissapointed as they all wanted a big WOW moment of an ending. Looking back I think it was a fantastic finale.

I think it's pretty clear that flash "SIDEWAYS" was purgatory, as christian said it doesn't matter where / time they are, they are in their specific forms in the church as its what they remember themselves to be closest with each other. As for the penny moment, well she's close to desmond and desmond to her seems only fair he'd want his loved one there. And ya It could just be lost writers being hapless romantics, and people reading to much into every single niggling thing.

The main thing however is when hurley says to ben you were a good number 2, and he replies you were a good number 1, thus telling us the timelines were obviously taking place at different times.

All in all A brilliant brilliant ending, some answers left open for discussion, would u really want a show to iron clad everything and not having anything for its fan base to debate

blodvyn · 25-05-2010 01:49AM

9

tony1kenobi wrote: »

I read the first 13 pages and promise to read the rest...so if it has been said already I apologise.....but in my opinion...

...They were dead before we ever met them....just like another show that finaled in the last few days...

I was happy enough with the end and don't care that the writers lied...if they had said 5 years ago"yup..you're right"....would we have bothered watching?

Wonderful show with a more that satisfying end....I have my questions of course...I'll ask them later.

No, they were not dead before meeting them. The sideways in s5 was the start of when we should have known/realized they were dead/purgatory.

They all died at different times, boom on island, hurley (god knows how long as he was the new jacob and probobly relived something along the sames lines and died when he found a new canditate.) Kate , sawyer god only knows when

but what matters is they all found each other in the end in order to pass on, as shepard says, we don't do this alone

Creasy_bear · 25-05-2010 01:51AM

tony1kenobi wrote: »

I read the first 13 pages and promise to read the rest...so if it has been said already I apologise.....but in my opinion...

...They were dead before we ever met them....just like another show that finaled in the last few days...

I was happy enough with the end and don't care that the writers lied...if they had said 5 years ago"yup..you're right"....would we have bothered watching?

Wonderful show with a more that satisfying end....I have my questions of course...I'll ask them later.

you need to read more than 13 pages me thinks

opinion guy · 25-05-2010 01:51AM

Ok so I have a question then.

IF when you die you go into a dream world whilst you come to terms with your life before moving on, WHY were there ghosts on the island whispering and directing events.

I call BOLLOCKS AND SHENANIGANS BOTH.

Stupid ending. No worse. Insulting ending. This is the only show I know where the writers actually seem to have contempt for the fans.

I shall repay them by never buying any box sets or watching the reruns or otherwise earning them cash in any way.

Rob! · 25-05-2010 01:52AM

9

blodvyn wrote: »

No, they were not dead before meeting them. The sideways in s5 was the start of when we should have known/realized they were dead/purgatory.

They all died at different times, boom on island, hurley (god knows how long as he was the new jacob and probobly relived something along the sames lines and died when he found a new canditate.) Kate , sawyer god only knows when but what matters is they all found each other in the end in order to pass on, as shepard says, we don't do this alone

Don't wreck yourself dude. I've been trying to get the same point across all day - some ppl just cant seem to get it, even some critics. It's terribly frustrating to hear ppl hating on an ending that they are completely wrong in their interpretation of though!!

tony1kenobi · 25-05-2010 01:58AM

Creasy_bear wrote: »

you need to read more than 13 pages me thinks

Nope...pretty sure I got it.

blodvyn · 25-05-2010 02:00AM

9

Rob! wrote: »

Don't wreck yourself dude. I've been trying to get the same point across all day - some ppl just cant seem to get it, even some critics. It's terribly frustrating to hear ppl hating on an ending that they are completely wrong in their interpretation of though!!

Ya I guess so I just can't see how it didn't click for people with the interaction of ben and hurley in the final few scene.

I mean if you think about it, they had just been appointed number 1 and number 2, why would they talk about it in the sideways 2 minutes later like it was something they did for a long long time

it was a dead give away that people died at alternating times, some sooner that others, boom, charolette, and some alot later than other hurley/ben. the writers have always talked about it being a journey, and if you look at what they called the synopsis of the last 6 seasons. A JOURNEY TO AN END (which aired earlier) thats what it was, and brilliantly done.

YES there was a plane crash
YES there was a jacob
YES there was others/smoke monsters etc
YES there was a mystical island
NO they were NOT dead on arrival.
YES they did die at alternating times, some ALOT sooner than others, what matters is the JOURNEY in which they took to get to the end.

I was watching a program about how the writers said they would never dumb down this show and wrote it as they wanted, god I wish they dumbed it down so some of you people could get it

Creasy_bear · 25-05-2010 02:01AM

tony1kenobi wrote: »

Nope...pretty sure I got it.

no , no you didnt

[US/IRL] 6x17/18 - "The End" (2.5 Hour Series Finale) [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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[US/IRL] 6x17/18 - "The End" (2.5 Hour Series Finale) [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]