[US/IRL] 6x17/18 - "The End" (2.5 Hour Series Finale) [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

dudeitshurley wrote: »

Can people SERIOUSLY say it's sufficient for them not to know any of these things and just to surmise and theorise? If that's the case, then we end up having to surmise and theorise over EVERY SINGLE plot mystery over 6 seasons, most of which have come to unfulfilling ends.

Ron Moore famously declared, when composing the end of the BSG story, that “It’s the Characters, Stupid.” He wanted to focus on what happened to the characters and their story, and the plot and mysteries took second place.
Same thing with Lost .
The show had lots of big mysteries. Many people enjoyed it for these mysteries, but if the show is really about the characters, the mysteries were a mistake. And we still would have puzzled over them.

dudeitshurley wrote: »

Makes ZERO sense. like zero! Desmond could go down to pull the stone so someone could kill Flocke? Ok. But if he's then mortal what risk does he pose at all? Absolutely no risk!! lol i mean what's he capable of doing as a mortal to the world?

Here's a massive plot failing imo: Flocke can't leave the Island. That much is established. So we surmised if he killed the candidates he could leave. Ehhhh no. He had motive and opportunity to do so if that were the case. So what danger did he pose? He's trapped on the island, seemingly the only way to kill him is to pull the plug/stone, which presumably is the very act that WOULD risk the fate of the world. I assume from the complete meltdown of the island that the release of magical electromagnetism could be an OOOOOOPS.

Someone have a go at rationally explaining this to me. please!!!

Ha yes I just realized there are holes in my theory.

Well what would make more sense is that Desmond was brought to the island so he could pull the cork and destroy the island, ultimately killing everyone including FLocke.

Edit: I don't believe FLocke was truely mortal after pulling the cork. Watching the fight scene between him and Jack in this episode, he was still seemed pretty ruthless to me.

Edit 2: Also remember MiB had a very negative view of humanity, so another reason to contain him on the island.

seadnamac wrote: »

Beat me to it!

As someone mentioned earlier by Jack saving the Island's light he also saved the light which all the losties in the Church needed to move on.

As for explaining all the mysteries well certain things are better left unexplained. For instance the X files went downhill when it started to explain too much towards the end. If you just want good characterisation then go watch Greys Anatomy which is void of complex mysteries.

Would have been better if it was Ben instead of Kate who killed Flocke.

dudeitshurley wrote: »

I have so much i want to contribute and debate but it's a minefield in here right now so i'll have to focus on issues as they arise:

1. Jacob was seeking others to protect the Island. From what? Smokie? And before smokie from who or what? If from specifically Smokie, why? The Finale just showed Flocke/Smokie to be pretty clueless in what he was trying to achieve. Once the plug was pulled he became mortal and it shocked him. Why? -Because he had no clue what it would achieve. How could he? He was never ever down there in the cave.

1a. Why did Jack willingly let Desmond pull the plug? Even help him down there? No logical reasoning for it.

2. Why did the island need protecting? What was so special about this magical island that the fate of the world depended on it? Jacob previously talked about the Island being a "cork" to keep the darkness in, presumably the Island being the vessel in which it is contained. What was the darkness? Smokie? Doubtful. Electromagnetism from the magical cave with a plug? Hmmmmm.


Can people SERIOUSLY say it's sufficient for them not to know any of these things and just to surmise and theorise? If that's the case, then we end up having to surmise and theorise over EVERY SINGLE plot mystery over 6 seasons, most of which have come to unfulfilling ends.

1. I thought it was made pretty clear in Across the Sea that they were protecting the light from ordinary people or "Man" because they believed it to hold power which every man craves, did you not see that episode?

1a. Jack did not tell Desmond to pull any plug he didnt know what was there just that he had to get desmond to it, not once did jack say go down there and pull a plug.

2. same as question 1

Disappointed in Desmond actually. Was expecting him to become supercharged and start blasting EM at MiB or something.

I do hope Hurley granted Vincent immortality for his pivotal role in events.

ixoy wrote: »

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that! I spent longer puzzling over that mystery than nearly anything else in the episode I eventually figured that Albert learnt about seat belts via his contact with the Dharma initiative or by exploring the downed plans in the jungle. Seriously, I spent a couple of minutes thinking on this...

Glad to hear your priorities are in the right place ixoy!

"No.. feck the polar bears and sharks with Dharma logos. How'd that lad know how to put on a seat belt?

:pac:

Some good questions here

http://www.eonline.com/videos/v53991_unanswered-lost-questions.html

And some more answers including MIB's real name that was used in the script

dudeitshurley wrote: »

Makes ZERO sense. like zero! Desmond could go down to pull the stone so someone could kill Flocke? Ok. But if he's then mortal what risk does he pose at all? Absolutely no risk!! lol i mean what's he capable of doing as a mortal to the world?

Here's a massive plot failing imo: Flocke can't leave the Island. That much is established. So we surmised if he killed the candidates he could leave. Ehhhh no. He had motive and opportunity to do so if that were the case. So what danger did he pose? He's trapped on the island, seemingly the only way to kill him is to pull the plug/stone, which presumably is the very act that WOULD risk the fate of the world. I assume from the complete meltdown of the island that the release of magical electromagnetism could be an OOOOOOPS.

Someone have a go at rationally explaining this to me. please!!!

My quite longwinded thoughts on your question.

I found it clear after "Across the Sea" that none of the characters (including Jacob & MIB) actually had a clue what was exactly going on with the island. MIB's original plan to get off the island was to kill Jacob, however after doing this he realised that with the Candidates being on island he still couldnt leave. After failing in his attempts to kill all the Candidates he found out from Widmore that Des was "special" and could destroy the island. I think he weighed up his options and decided that it would be easier to destroy the island than to kill the candidates and/or the new protector. Jack on blind faith in Jacob believed what Des would do would not destroy the island but help kill Flocke. From Flockes reaction to bleeding I dont believe he ever thought pulling the cork would make him mortal & lead to his eventual death. Even Des believed after his flashes into the flash sideways during "Happy ever after" that pulling the cork would bring them all into the Flash Sideways. None of the had full information, they were each going on second, third, fourth etc hand knowledge gleamed from other characters.

The cork is just another button. Would the island sinking mean the end of the world?? That information was passed down from Mother presumably gained from the previous protector. Just like the button we'll never know if the world outside of the island would have ended because the failsafe was used to "re-cork" the power. We've been left to decide it ourselves.

dudeitshurley wrote: »

Ok i'm gonna run with this for a second for ya :P

So Desmond is special for his ability to withstand electromagnetism. Presumably something to do with the Hatch Implosion? Again just another thing we have to surmise lacking in any semblance of an answer. So, Des is special so he can remove the cork, giving anybody a window to kill Flocke.

Problems: Massive Problems: I always understood the smoke monster as having the ability to take the shape of others. i.e. Locke. How does pulling the plug render him both mortal and leave him in the shape of John Locke? Remember he is NOT John Locke. That man is dead. So how is smokie enabled to still assume his shape? One would have to interpret that pulling the plug rendered smokies powers redundant. After all it made him mortal. And i STRONGLY disagree with the poster (sorry lol) who said he doesnt think he is completely mortal. He clearly is. People fired bullets at smokie all season and he walks through them not a scratch yet Jack punches him and he bleeds. Set in stone: mortal.

Furthermore, Jack is not special in a similar way to desmond, how does he withstand it to put the plug back in? He doesn't even die as a result of it, he crawls out of there. So how did he manage it? If someone says, well he's the Protector he has powers, then it begs a simple question - why didnt jacob do it himself and kill smokie? Because it was once his brother? Doubtful as he is the one who says they have to try kill him.

sigh.

Smokie had taken over Lockes form and was left stuck in it. His own body was a skeleton by that point in the show (I know Lockes body was burried) so I think it makes more sense that he was left stuck in the form he was in when the cork was pulled.

I'd say the Jack point was down to him being the protector but its something we'll never know. He died shortly after so its not really too big a deal to me. I think Jacob didnt do it himself because he didnt have a breeze what was going on down there as much as anyone else. He knew what Mother told him and what he probably saw from Des surviving the Hatch Ex/Implosion.

Maybe I'm missing something here (I probably am) but what was the point of all the time travel? I had assumed it was so that they could detonate the bomb and as a result create the alt timeline. But since the alt timeline was actually purgatory, was there any point at all to the time travel?