Possible social welfare cuts in Ireland?

DidierMc · 21-05-2010 09:55PM

dan_d wrote: »

About to go on the dole myself and I've no illusions about it. Going from 2600k a month to about 700eur is not going to be a happy situation. I am paying insurance to cover my mortgage payments, as I do not believe in relying on the state for that bill....the dole will literally be putting food in my mouth and paying my ESB, Gas and internet (for job hunting) bills, while I hunt as hard as I can for another job. There is no doubt about it though, that social welfare needs to be cut. I know people who won't take jobs that pay up to about 25k, because they get more from the system by remaining unemployed. And that makes me sick to be quite honest, because my feeling is that I don't want to draw the dole, I don't want hand outs. Even though I've paid tax for it for the last few years and I'm entitled to it.I'll do any job I can get - 2 if I have to - I just don't want to be stuck on it indefinitely. Yet there's scam artists out there making a living from being handed my tax money every week, and nobody is doing a thing about it. And God forbid anybody tries to, the bleeding hearts brigade will be out in force. The dole is supposed to feed you while you try to find another job. It's not supposed to maintain you in your current lifestyle. Irish people have a serious problem with that concept.

Well maybe one of our hero entrepreneurs like Bill Cullen will give you a job selling cars? Be prepared to work for free for a month first though.

And don't think you are any better than anyone else on the dole, you are just another statistic like every other person on it.

dan_d · 21-05-2010 11:06PM

Thanks for all the support guys.

DidierMc I think you missed my point. I don't want to be a statistic. I never said anything about being better or worse than anyone. All I said was that I don't want hand outs, I want to work, but there are people in this country who make a career out of how much they can get from the Gov for free, and that annoys me. And most other people too.
I've already volunteered to help a friend out in her business for free, so I'll have something to do. I think I've covered that part for the moment. In the meantime, all I can do is try and do as much as I can with my free time so I'm not sitting at home worrying.

RichardAnd I know exactly what you mean, it terrifies me too. I can't stand the idea that I mightn't be independent, I'm relying on the State.The hardest part is not knowing when the next paycheck will come in.

I still think social welfare should be cut however....we've got a problem when it's more profitable not to work.

And I'm a girl.....!!!!!!!!

RichardAnd · 21-05-2010 11:10PM

dan_d wrote: »

And I'm a girl.....!!!!!!!!

Hmm, I honestly thought you were a guy

. Must be the name so I'll say good luck to you miss instead

.

DidierMc · 22-05-2010 12:46PM

dan_d wrote: »

Thanks for all the support guys.

DidierMc I think you missed my point. I don't want to be a statistic. I never said anything about being better or worse than anyone. All I said was that I don't want hand outs, I want to work, but there are people in this country who make a career out of how much they can get from the Gov for free, and that annoys me. And most other people too.
I've already volunteered to help a friend out in her business for free, so I'll have something to do. I think I've covered that part for the moment. In the meantime, all I can do is try and do as much as I can with my free time so I'm not sitting at home worrying.

RichardAnd I know exactly what you mean, it terrifies me too. I can't stand the idea that I mightn't be independent, I'm relying on the State.The hardest part is not knowing when the next paycheck will come in.

I still think social welfare should be cut however....we've got a problem when it's more profitable not to work.

And I'm a girl.....!!!!!!!!

The vast majority of the people on the dole want to work. Explain to me how you are any different?

domrush · 22-05-2010 12:55PM

They only want to work if it's for 35k+ a year

DidierMc · 22-05-2010 12:55PM

domrush wrote: »

They only want to work if it's for 35k+ a year

Show me one job vacancy in Ireland that cannot be filled right now

domrush · 22-05-2010 01:05PM

At top of page woman unwilling to work at Ikea

DidierMc · 22-05-2010 01:08PM

domrush wrote: »

At top of page woman unwilling to work at Ikea

So IKEA couldn't get anyone else to do the job?

domrush · 22-05-2010 01:16PM

I'm just using it as an example of the attitude among many recently unemployed.
For example I doubt there have been many applications to McDonalds from architects recently laid off. People seem to think that some jobs are just below them.

DidierMc · 22-05-2010 01:23PM

domrush wrote: »

I'm just using it as an example of the attitude among many recently unemployed.
For example I doubt there have been many applications to McDonalds from architects recently laid off. People seem to think that some jobs are just below them.

I'm asking you to show me any positions that cannot be filled. You seem to be under the illusion that there are loads of jobs out there but people are just too snobby to take them. There's no jobs, not even in McDonalds.

halkar · 22-05-2010 01:38PM

WalterMitty wrote: »

the country cant afford the 20billion a year that is being paid in social welfare. Anyone struggling to make repayments could be helped out under another scheme but 200 a week for 900,000 people (unemployed,OAPs,disabled,single mothers etc) is just unaffordable at present.

900k people :eek: That is almost quarter of the population. If you remove the kids, public workers etc not many left working. And remove the workers that are not in the tax bands out of this. And and they still want to tax high earners to run them out of the country.
We are doomed :mad:

DidierMc · 22-05-2010 01:40PM

halkar wrote: »

900k people :eek: That is almost quarter of the population. If you remove the kids, public workers etc not many left working. And remove the workers that are not in the tax bands out of this. And and they still want to tax high earners to run them out of the country.
We are doomed :mad:

I want to run high earners out of the country. Seize all their wealth first of course.

halkar · 22-05-2010 01:49PM

DidierMc wrote: »

I want to run high earners out of the country. Seize all their wealth first of course.

Not all high earners are bankers or TDs or HSE consultants. There are a good few thousand ordinary honest skilled workers earn close to 100k.

johnnyjb · 22-05-2010 01:49PM

I hate when the employed try to dictate what unwillingly unemployed people are entitled to.Any one who thinks cutting out the dole or reducing it to a pathetic level like 60 euro deserves to be fired and try live on that amount.I was never unemoloyed till recession and never cheated the system. Its a case of screw the rest cause their afraid of losing a few quid out of their wages. Do people not realise their parents were getting childrens allowance etc. from the state when they were ****ting their nappies but have a sort of superior complex about "second class citizens" on dole. But they seem to forget that and have the cheek to criticise people who are struggling. If they cut off long term unemployable spongers it might make up the difference.

Ive no problem taking a little hit but also no problem collecting the money from the post office.People keep comparing us to other countries, do you think we should just drop all standards and do what our neighbours are doing. This is ireland not england etc..we have to figure it out ourselves not follow the leader.

DidierMc · 22-05-2010 01:51PM

halkar wrote: »

Not all high earners are bankers or TDs or HSE consultants. There are a good few thousand ordinary honest skilled workers earn close to 100k.

I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about millionaire parasites like Bono and Denis O'Brien who pay no tax anyway.

Saadyst · 22-05-2010 02:17PM

I recall reading somewhere on this forum that the dole only accounts for €5 billion a year.... there's another €15 billion that's going to things like child benefit and whatever else. I might be wrong, but I think I did read that here in a breakdown.

Anyway, it's all great people saying the dole should be cut, impose a time limit etc. When the country is in the crapper. Fair-weather friends?

Don't forget that it's around 12%~ unemployed now. Is it a smart idea to have them out their houses or at the end of some debt recovery legal action etc etc - making it even harder for them to find work? At the end of the day it doesn't help the economy in the long term.

I'll bet you'll be happy when it's boom time again and this 12% you shunned is contributing a healthy amount to the economy.

RichardAnd · 22-05-2010 02:56PM

DidierMc wrote: »

I want to run high earners out of the country. Seize all their wealth first of course.

My dad is a high earner and he most defiantly EARNED his money. He started out as a metal worker and worked his way to where he is today. Socialist crap like this above statement is a symptom of the short-sighted attitude that cause the recession.

dan_d · 22-05-2010 08:53PM

DidierMc wrote: »

The vast majority of the people on the dole want to work. Explain to me how you are any different?

I'm not any different, and I'm not explaining my point again. I think I've made myself quite clear - I'm not referring to myself, but to those who make a career out of sponging off the state.

Johnnyjb makes a good point about cutting off long term unemployed spongers - that's definitely part of our problem. More effort needs to be put into keeping a check on people. But I still think part of the strategy needs to be lowering the level of welfare. The pool of people being taxed isn't that big, and it's shrinking rapidly. We don't need to drop it to absolute pittance, but we need to drop it. We just can't afford it anymore.

danbohan · 22-05-2010 09:13PM

elius wrote: »

Have any of you sat back and looked at the amount of debt being serviced buy people on the dole?
Why should people who payed tax in my case 8yrs be held responsible for are incompetent government? And there **** up of the irish economy.
196 pays for sweet f all. And god-forbid if any of you find yourselves on the dole you will be sure to find out. I went from €2500-2700 a month to €784 :rolleyes::rolleyes:

and because you cant pay your debts , its the countrys/ goverments fault / problem ?. hopefully morgan kelly is right , the reality of the imf can come fast enough

22-05-2010 09:19PM

danbohan wrote: »

and because you cant pay your debts , its the countrys/ goverments fault / problem ?. hopefully morgan kelly is right , the reality of the imf can come fast enough

You realise that the IMF will rip employed people to shreds, too, right?

Or are you purposely being ignorant to troll the thread?

danbohan · 22-05-2010 09:26PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You realise that the IMF will rip employed people to shreds, too, right?

Or are you purposely being ignorant to troll the thread?

the imf will bring a bit of reality to a country whose unemployed/ public sector dont have any , imf are on nobodys wishlist , but after 2 years of rescission and the countrys outrageous debts we see people still blaming their irresponsible borrowings on government , teachers rejecting agreements in a country that is borrowing 20 billion to pay the highest teacher wages in europe as well as overpaying for other public servants , will any goverment here really get to grips with what needs to be done , no , will an imf / eurozone greek style bailout force one , yes

unamused · 22-05-2010 09:39PM

WalterMitty wrote: »

the country cant afford the 20billion a year that is being paid in social welfare. Anyone struggling to make repayments could be helped out under another scheme but 200 a week for 900,000 people (unemployed,OAPs,disabled,single mothers etc) is just unaffordable at present.

God forbid you find yourself in this unfortunate situation..I am 32 have worked since I was 16 years old sometime I even worked two jobs and last year found myself out of work...I was renting a lovely apartment which due to it being over the threshold and the fact that landlord wouldnt accept rent allowance I had to move and find a two bed decent property in dublin city that is 930 rent or below is very difficult

I dont drive and have a mother who has no room for me to move in with but is in need of constant care so I have no choice but to not move that far away from her and south county dublin isnt the cheapest place to rent

I struggle to get by and although I am in debt with credit card and bank loan at present neither get paid as I simple havent the ability to grow a money tree - esb bills are a rip off, doing your shopping is a rip off, paying rent on substandard places are a rip off and everyday you hold on with your finger tips struggling to make ends meet while terrified that banks and their debt collectors will turn up at your door

All I want is to get back to work and back to what I knew last year but cant due to the poor decision making from our government so while I try to keep a smile on my face and mouths feed by going without myself I hope you never have to find yourself in this poverty and as for the the dole needing to be cut all that will achieve is making more ppl homeless or worse (I'll let you fill in those blanks)

Due to the absolute greed that overcame this country and turned a nice race of people in money hungry gits who are now unable to swallow what their beloved FF and Greens have done we have people suggesting that the poorest of the poor take another hit for what the richest of the rich have done thanks to the stupidest of stupid voting in the same crowd time and time again....bravo

ardmacha · 23-05-2010 02:39AM

the imf will bring a bit of reality to a country whose unemployed

I think it is sick to wish for the country to go bankrupt just to annoy other people. There are many who have become unemployed of late because others made mistakes or borrowed too much, why wish further misfortune on these people?

teachers rejecting agreements in a country that is borrowing 20 billion to pay the highest teacher wages in europe

Teacher wages are not the highest in Europe, only class sizes are toward the top of European leagues.

lifeinireland · 23-05-2010 03:12AM

unamused wrote: »

God forbid you find yourself in this unfortunate situation..I am 32 have worked since I was 16 years old sometime I even worked two jobs and last year found myself out of work...I was renting a lovely apartment which due to it being over the threshold and the fact that landlord wouldnt accept rent allowance I had to move and find a two bed decent property in dublin city that is 930 rent or below is very difficult

I dont drive and have a mother who has no room for me to move in with but is in need of constant care so I have no choice but to not move that far away from her and south county dublin isnt the cheapest place to rent

I struggle to get by and although I am in debt with credit card and bank loan at present neither get paid as I simple havent the ability to grow a money tree - esb bills are a rip off, doing your shopping is a rip off, paying rent on substandard places are a rip off and everyday you hold on with your finger tips struggling to make ends meet while terrified that banks and their debt collectors will turn up at your door

All I want is to get back to work and back to what I knew last year but cant due to the poor decision making from our government so while I try to keep a smile on my face and mouths feed by going without myself I hope you never have to find yourself in this poverty and as for the the dole needing to be cut all that will achieve is making more ppl homeless or worse (I'll let you fill in those blanks)

Due to the absolute greed that overcame this country and turned a nice race of people in money hungry gits who are now unable to swallow what their beloved FF and Greens have done we have people suggesting that the poorest of the poor take another hit for what the richest of the rich have done thanks to the stupidest of stupid voting in the same crowd time and time again....bravo[/QUOTsE]i agree 100% i too have worked all my life ie 25 years,ime struggling to make ends meet ,i am working but on low pay,my wife lost her job so things are very tight,we are the low paid and just barely surving,cant take any more cuts,the government is driving us to welfare,i done an evaluation of costs and i know it sound funny but i would be better of on welfare,free medical and family income supplement.

Scram · 23-05-2010 03:30AM

WalterMitty wrote: »

I was watching euronews channel and they were interviewing a greek firefighter. He only gets 800euro a month and now is being cut 30% on top of that. He is part time as fires are much more common in summer. Someone on dole here gets more than him!
For someone with little skills or education doing a job for a tenner an hour (good rate by european standards) has no attraction as you get nearly as much or more in some cases while on social welfare. 150a week is more than enough to feed yourself , buy basic clothes and pay essential bills.

http://www.yidio.com/greek-family-of-four-on-626-euros-per-month/id/1827313952

yeah thats great, but ive heard many stories where immigrants came over here and ripped off the dole big time. They expolied the weaknesses in a system that tried to care about its cizitens. And of course our "own" have done it worse over the years.

Plus you cant measure country A v Country B, we all know that it will not be fair.

The truth is, the FF goverment let the building trade dictate teh house prices, the house prices went up, more builders got loans until the edge was reached and this will be felt for many years to come.

Demonon · 23-05-2010 03:53AM

Saadyst wrote: »

I recall reading somewhere on this forum that the dole only accounts for €5 billion a year.... there's another €15 billion that's going to things like child benefit and whatever else. I might be wrong, but I think I did read that here in a breakdown.

It's actually less than €5 billion and fairly simple to calculate.

Current live register figure (as of May 7th 2010) 432,500

Multiply that figure by 196 (which is the highest rate of Jobseekers Allowance, many people are means tested and on less)

Then multiply that figure by 52 for the number of weeks in a year =

432,500 x 196 x 52 = €4,408,040,000 = €4.4 billion

That is only 1/3 of the (for example) €12 billion that Anglo alone will cost the tax payer.

These aren't the people who should be targeted, considering most of the 300,000 or so who lost their jobs in the last 2 years, lost their jobs through a government that allowed business costs (rent, electricity, wages, etc) to spiral out of control and an unsustainable construction boom to go out of control.

In my opinion payments like childrens allowance (or whatever it's called these days) should be means tested, and the whole rent allowance scheme whereby the government is paying many private landlords €1000's per month to house social welfare tenants. These people should be housed in the large supply of (now vacant) houses and apartments built during the boom.

That would mean moving a lot of people to places in Kildare, Wicklow, Offaly, etc. But in my opinion you can't be too choosey when receiving a free house, which is the way social housing works in normal countries like Germany - and their economy isn't doing too bad!

danbohan · 23-05-2010 10:29AM

ardmacha wrote: »

I think it is sick to wish for the country to go bankrupt just to annoy other people. There are many who have become unemployed of late because others made mistakes or borrowed too much, why wish further misfortune on these people?

Teacher wages are not the highest in Europe, only class sizes are toward the top of European leagues.[/QUOTE

if you are going to quote ,quote completely ,
any unemployed that thinks this country can / will continue to pay current levels of social welfare are foolish , it cannot be done , it will be cut . it will also be cut before the public sector salary's are cut , no unions for unemployed !

name me the country's in Europe that pay higher teacher salaries

nobody is wishing the country to go bankrupt , its a reality that is happening , but lot of people most notably public sector employees are burying their head in the sand and pretend its not

OMD · 23-05-2010 10:54AM

Demonon wrote: »

It's actually less than €5 billion and fairly simple to calculate.

Current live register figure (as of May 7th 2010) 432,500

Multiply that figure by 196 (which is the highest rate of Jobseekers Allowance, many people are means tested and on less)

Then multiply that figure by 52 for the number of weeks in a year =

432,500 x 196 x 52 = €4,408,040,000 = €4.4 billion

That is only 1/3 of the (for example) €12 billion that Anglo alone will cost the tax payer.

These aren't the people who should be targeted, considering most of the 300,000 or so who lost their jobs in the last 2 years, lost their jobs through a government that allowed business costs (rent, electricity, wages, etc) to spiral out of control and an unsustainable construction boom to go out of control.

!

Of course the unemployed receive more than just the dole. This pushes the figure well above 5 billion. Also this is a yearly cost so over next 10 years at current figures will cost closer 5 times the cost of Anglo.

I have no problem with the idea that "These aren't the people who should be targeted" however the reality of the situation is they will have to be targeted along with everyone else. Expect a small reduction in benefit (2-4%) plus loss of some allowances, eg clothing allowance, dietary supplement, rent allowance, special circumstances allowances. Abolition of some allowances will be used to reduce civil service staff.

johnnyskeleton · 23-05-2010 11:15AM

johnnyjb wrote: »

I hate when the employed try to dictate what unwillingly unemployed people are entitled to.

He who pays the piper picks the tune.

If all this money were free, magic, out-of-the-sky money then certainly it would be bad form for the employed to wish unnessesary pain on the unemployed. However, that is not the case and the reality is that the country cannot afford to sustain social welfare at its present level. Nor can we sustain PS pay levels or low income tax at the lower end. All unfortunate but what choice is there?

ardmacha · 23-05-2010 01:43PM

nobody is wishing the country to go bankrupt

you are "hopefully morgan kelly is right"

name me the country's in Europe that pay higher teacher salaries

Germany, for instance. Of course you can say that Germany can better afford these salaries than here, largely because they also collect enough tax to run their services which we do not. But wishing for economic collapse so that people will be paid less is not acceptable.

Possible social welfare cuts in Ireland?

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